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Re: Rudder Question

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  • jhoagg123
    That is my experience also. It seems those bolts can and should be loose on most or all of our boats. Tightening them binds the rudder. I suppose there
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 29 5:14 AM
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      That is my experience also. It seems those bolts can and should be loose on most or all of our boats. Tightening them binds the rudder. I suppose there could be an exception for a boat that has very little packing in there.

      --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Keen <sendtokeen@...> wrote:
      >
      > Great info, JP. The bolts on my boat are loose too.
      >
      > Jeff Keen
      >
      >
      > On Sunday, April 28, 2013, wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > When I bought my boat, the rudder bearing had just been replaced by the
      > > previous owners...you can read about their problems on the list serve posts.
      > >
      > > I had to have the bearings upper and lower trued by my boat yard (a really
      > > good one btw) once I bought the boat.
      > >
      > > the problem is that the "stuffing box for the rudder" is not
      > > perpendicular to the base line of the plans for the hull...its
      > > perpendicular to the bottom of the hull, which is why so many people have
      > > issues replacing the rudder bearings..
      > > am I making sense? mine was and is also pretty loose....if you tighten it
      > > too much your rudder will be very stiff since the upper and lower bearings
      > > are perpendicular to different planes. I had to have my boat yard dress my
      > > upper bearing so that wheel would turn easily.
      > >
      > > First, i think the top of the flange is above the outside waterline so the
      > > danger of leaking is minimal, Second I think you only need enough tension
      > > on those bolts to keep the flax packing in place. It does not have to be
      > > as tight
      > > as the prop shaft rudder bearing because it is above water line...
      > >
      > > When my bearing was correctly fixed, the guys from my boat yard came out
      > > for a spin on the boat. The 28 is ass heavy to begin with and when u get
      > > her up to hull speed with the diesel she "squats" even lower in the stern.
      > > If you are worried, take her out and run at full speed with the engine and
      > > have someone down in the locker to see if water is coming in...thats what
      > > by boat yard did and I have a very dry boat. even with the stuffin box for
      > > the prop dripping, my bilge pump never runs unless the ice the cooler is
      > > melting fast...
      > >
      > > Your boats sounds like mine, and I had the same concerns.. no problems in
      > > three years (yet people that design and build these things are
      > > engineers...im just a band teacher!)
      > >
      > > hope this helps, but I think if you consult a good yard they will come to
      > > the same conclusion....the guys that built the boat did not align the
      > > rudder shaft/bearings to the same plane.....
      > >
      > > btw, my rudder is finally fixed and no leaks...but my bolts are still
      > > loose!
      > >
      > >
      > > JP
      > > On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:45 PM, taylorbj28 wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I was down in the cockpit locker yesterday and noticed two "flanges" where
      > > the rudder stock comes up through the hull. They are unpainted fiberglass
      > > and have 8 bolts through the two flanges as if to bolt them together. The
      > > flanges are about 1 1/2" apart. I noticed that the bolts will slide up and
      > > down about 3/8" (not tight at all). The have locknuts on the bolts so the
      > > nuts are there. Is this a "stuffing box" if you will, preventing water from
      > > entering the hull around the rudder stock? Should these bolts be tightened?
      > > Is there a packing material in there that should be replaced? The boat is
      > > in the water and no leakage is evident but I think the bolts have been like
      > > this for some time. I will try to attach a photo. Thanks! Brad Taylor
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • taylorbj28
      Thank you everybody! I was a bit concerned. Brad
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 29 4:22 PM
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        Thank you everybody! I was a bit concerned.

        Brad

        --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
        >
        > That is my experience also. It seems those bolts can and should be loose on most or all of our boats. Tightening them binds the rudder. I suppose there could be an exception for a boat that has very little packing in there.
        >
        > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Keen <sendtokeen@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Great info, JP. The bolts on my boat are loose too.
        > >
        > > Jeff Keen
        > >
        > >
        > > On Sunday, April 28, 2013, wrote:
        > >
        > > > **
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > When I bought my boat, the rudder bearing had just been replaced by the
        > > > previous owners...you can read about their problems on the list serve posts.
        > > >
        > > > I had to have the bearings upper and lower trued by my boat yard (a really
        > > > good one btw) once I bought the boat.
        > > >
        > > > the problem is that the "stuffing box for the rudder" is not
        > > > perpendicular to the base line of the plans for the hull...its
        > > > perpendicular to the bottom of the hull, which is why so many people have
        > > > issues replacing the rudder bearings..
        > > > am I making sense? mine was and is also pretty loose....if you tighten it
        > > > too much your rudder will be very stiff since the upper and lower bearings
        > > > are perpendicular to different planes. I had to have my boat yard dress my
        > > > upper bearing so that wheel would turn easily.
        > > >
        > > > First, i think the top of the flange is above the outside waterline so the
        > > > danger of leaking is minimal, Second I think you only need enough tension
        > > > on those bolts to keep the flax packing in place. It does not have to be
        > > > as tight
        > > > as the prop shaft rudder bearing because it is above water line...
        > > >
        > > > When my bearing was correctly fixed, the guys from my boat yard came out
        > > > for a spin on the boat. The 28 is ass heavy to begin with and when u get
        > > > her up to hull speed with the diesel she "squats" even lower in the stern.
        > > > If you are worried, take her out and run at full speed with the engine and
        > > > have someone down in the locker to see if water is coming in...thats what
        > > > by boat yard did and I have a very dry boat. even with the stuffin box for
        > > > the prop dripping, my bilge pump never runs unless the ice the cooler is
        > > > melting fast...
        > > >
        > > > Your boats sounds like mine, and I had the same concerns.. no problems in
        > > > three years (yet people that design and build these things are
        > > > engineers...im just a band teacher!)
        > > >
        > > > hope this helps, but I think if you consult a good yard they will come to
        > > > the same conclusion....the guys that built the boat did not align the
        > > > rudder shaft/bearings to the same plane.....
        > > >
        > > > btw, my rudder is finally fixed and no leaks...but my bolts are still
        > > > loose!
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > JP
        > > > On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:45 PM, taylorbj28 wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I was down in the cockpit locker yesterday and noticed two "flanges" where
        > > > the rudder stock comes up through the hull. They are unpainted fiberglass
        > > > and have 8 bolts through the two flanges as if to bolt them together. The
        > > > flanges are about 1 1/2" apart. I noticed that the bolts will slide up and
        > > > down about 3/8" (not tight at all). The have locknuts on the bolts so the
        > > > nuts are there. Is this a "stuffing box" if you will, preventing water from
        > > > entering the hull around the rudder stock? Should these bolts be tightened?
        > > > Is there a packing material in there that should be replaced? The boat is
        > > > in the water and no leakage is evident but I think the bolts have been like
        > > > this for some time. I will try to attach a photo. Thanks! Brad Taylor
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • thistle4002
        Yes, as a former dinghy sailor, I know the importance of keeping the mast pointed skyward and the water on the outside of the boat.... I think if you had a
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 29 4:27 PM
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          Yes, as a former dinghy sailor, I know the importance of keeping the mast pointed skyward and the water on the outside of the boat....

          I think if you had a real issue, you would have sunk by now. I can tell you she would go down FAST. The past winter while frostbiting in Boston,  A J24 got knocked down with a cockpit locker open
          She sank in under 3-4 mins....It was quite spectacular.  I think  j28 with a 3000 lb keel and diesel might beat that!

          J
          On Apr 29, 2013, at 7:22 PM, taylorbj28 wrote:

           

          Thank you everybody! I was a bit concerned.

          Brad

          --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
          >
          > That is my experience also. It seems those bolts can and should be loose on most or all of our boats. Tightening them binds the rudder. I suppose there could be an exception for a boat that has very little packing in there.
          >
          > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Keen <sendtokeen@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Great info, JP. The bolts on my boat are loose too.
          > >
          > > Jeff Keen
          > >
          > >
          > > On Sunday, April 28, 2013, wrote:
          > >
          > > > **
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > When I bought my boat, the rudder bearing had just been replaced by the
          > > > previous owners...you can read about their problems on the list serve posts.
          > > >
          > > > I had to have the bearings upper and lower trued by my boat yard (a really
          > > > good one btw) once I bought the boat.
          > > >
          > > > the problem is that the "stuffing box for the rudder" is not
          > > > perpendicular to the base line of the plans for the hull...its
          > > > perpendicular to the bottom of the hull, which is why so many people have
          > > > issues replacing the rudder bearings..
          > > > am I making sense? mine was and is also pretty loose....if you tighten it
          > > > too much your rudder will be very stiff since the upper and lower bearings
          > > > are perpendicular to different planes. I had to have my boat yard dress my
          > > > upper bearing so that wheel would turn easily.
          > > >
          > > > First, i think the top of the flange is above the outside waterline so the
          > > > danger of leaking is minimal, Second I think you only need enough tension
          > > > on those bolts to keep the flax packing in place. It does not have to be
          > > > as tight
          > > > as the prop shaft rudder bearing because it is above water line...
          > > >
          > > > When my bearing was correctly fixed, the guys from my boat yard came out
          > > > for a spin on the boat. The 28 is ass heavy to begin with and when u get
          > > > her up to hull speed with the diesel she "squats" even lower in the stern.
          > > > If you are worried, take her out and run at full speed with the engine and
          > > > have someone down in the locker to see if water is coming in...thats what
          > > > by boat yard did and I have a very dry boat. even with the stuffin box for
          > > > the prop dripping, my bilge pump never runs unless the ice the cooler is
          > > > melting fast...
          > > >
          > > > Your boats sounds like mine, and I had the same concerns.. no problems in
          > > > three years (yet people that design and build these things are
          > > > engineers...im just a band teacher!)
          > > >
          > > > hope this helps, but I think if you consult a good yard they will come to
          > > > the same conclusion....the guys that built the boat did not align the
          > > > rudder shaft/bearings to the same plane.....
          > > >
          > > > btw, my rudder is finally fixed and no leaks...but my bolts are still
          > > > loose!
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > JP
          > > > On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:45 PM, taylorbj28 wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > I was down in the cockpit locker yesterday and noticed two "flanges" where
          > > > the rudder stock comes up through the hull. They are unpainted fiberglass
          > > > and have 8 bolts through the two flanges as if to bolt them together. The
          > > > flanges are about 1 1/2" apart. I noticed that the bolts will slide up and
          > > > down about 3/8" (not tight at all). The have locknuts on the bolts so the
          > > > nuts are there. Is this a "stuffing box" if you will, preventing water from
          > > > entering the hull around the rudder stock? Should these bolts be tightened?
          > > > Is there a packing material in there that should be replaced? The boat is
          > > > in the water and no leakage is evident but I think the bolts have been like
          > > > this for some time. I will try to attach a photo. Thanks! Brad Taylor
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >


        • Hans Andersen
          Hi all j 28 sailors Regarding the rudder stuffing box if you are changing the packing install the the bolts with the washers and nuts downward I changed the
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 29 6:53 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi all j 28 sailors
            Regarding the rudder stuffing box if you are changing the packing install the the bolts with the washers and nuts downward 
            I changed the stuffing and installed the bolts the way it came I had placed the washers on top on the upper plate and unknowingly dropped a small washer into the stuffing box
            Later it worked it's way down into the lower bearing 
            During the season the wheel got to be very hard to turn and I had to stop using the autohelm
            Last fall when the boat was on the hard i dropped the rudder so the bearing was showing and In the process a small washer dropped to the ground
            I checked the inner and outher
            Bearings they were fine
            I reinstalled the rudder and the wheel spins freely
            I had the help of a friend and used a Jack to lower the rudder
            and to push it back up into place
            It can be done with just two people working together
            Good luck
            Hans 
            J28 last dance

            Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen


            On 2013-04-28, at 22:21, sailingmaster@... wrote:

             

            When I bought my boat, the rudder bearing had just been replaced by the previous owners...you can read about their problems on the list serve posts.


            I had to have the bearings upper and lower trued by my boat yard (a really good one btw) once I bought the boat.

            the problem is that the "stuffing box for the rudder"  is not perpendicular to the base line of the plans for the hull...its perpendicular to the bottom of the hull, which is why so many people have issues replacing the rudder bearings..
            am I making sense?  mine was and is also pretty loose....if you tighten it too much your rudder will be very stiff since the upper and lower bearings are perpendicular to different planes.  I had to have my boat yard dress my upper bearing so that wheel would turn easily.  

            First, i think the top of the flange is above the outside waterline so the danger of leaking is minimal, Se cond I think you only need enough tension on those bolts to keep the flax packing in place.  It does not have to be as tight 
            as the prop shaft rudder bearing because it is above water line...

            When my bearing was correctly fixed, the guys from my boat yard came out for a spin on the boat.  The 28 is ass heavy to begin with and when u get her up to hull speed with the diesel she "squats" even lower in the stern.
            If you are worried, take her out and run at full speed with the engine and have someone down in the locker to see if water is coming in...thats what by boat yard did and I have a very dry boat.  even with the stuffin box for the prop dripping, my bilge pump never runs unless the ice the cooler is melting fast...

            Your boats sounds like mine, and I had the same concerns.. no problems in three years (yet people that design and build these things are engineers...im just a band teache r!)  

            hope this helps, but I think if you consult a good yard they will come to the same conclusion....the guys that built the boat did not align the rudder shaft/bearings to the same plane.....

            btw, my rudder is finally fixed and no leaks...but my bolts are still loose!


            JP
            On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:45 PM, taylorbj28 wrote:

             

            I was down in the cockpit locker yesterday and noticed two "flanges" where the rudder stock comes up through the hull. They are unpainted fiberglass and have 8 bolts through the two flanges as if to bolt them together. The flanges are about 1 1/2" apart. I noticed that the bolts will slide up and down about 3/8" (not tight at all). The have locknuts on the bolts so the nuts are there. Is this a "stu ffing box" if you will, preventing water from entering the hull around the rudder stock? Should these bolts be tightened? Is there a packing material in there that should be replaced? The boat is in the water and no leakage is evident but I think the bolts have been like this for some time. I will try to attach a photo. Thanks! Brad Taylor


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