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Re: Diesel questions - No cooling water discharge

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  • mcclurejsteven
    Thanks all, we will have a look and keep you posted.
    Message 1 of 30 , Apr 18, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks all, we will have a look and keep you posted.

      --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
      >
      > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
      >
      > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
      > >
      > > Sent from my iPad
      > >
      > > David L. Hastings
      > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
      > > Crystal River, FL 34429
      > > Home: 352-794-6440
      > > Cell: 315-345-2078
      > >
      > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
      > >
      > > > Hi Steve
      > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
      > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
      > > > Hans
      > > > "Last Dance"
      > > >
      > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >>
      > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
      > > >>
      > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
      > > >>
      > > >> Thanks,
      > > >>
      > > >> Steve
      > > >>
      > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
      > > >> >
      > > >> >
      > > >> > John,
      > > >> >
      > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
      > > >> >
      > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
      > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
      > > >> >
      > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
      > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
      > > >> >
      > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
      > > >> >
      > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
      > > >> >
      > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
      > > >> >
      > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
      > > >> >
      > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
      > > >> >
      > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
      > > >> >
      > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
      > > >> >
      > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
      > > >> >
      > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
      > > >> >
      > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
      > > >> >
      > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
      > > >> >
      > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
      > > >> >
      > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
      > > >> >
      > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
      > > >> >
      > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
      > > >> >
      > > >> > Bill
      > > >> >
      > > >> >
      > > >> >
      > > >> >
      > > >> >
      > > >> >
      > > >> >
      > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
      > > >> > >
      > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
      > > >> > >
      > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
      > > >> > >
      > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
      > > >> > >
      > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
      > > >> > >
      > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
      > > >> > >
      > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
      > > >> > >
      > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
      > > >> > >
      > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
      > > >> > >
      > > >> > > Where should I start?
      > > >> > >
      > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
      > > >> > >
      > > >> > > JP
      > > >> > >
      > > >> >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ____________________________________________________________
      > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
      > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
      > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
      > >
      >
    • Tom Quinlan
      If the pump and impeller are OK, check the mixing elbow on the exhaust This tends to corrode over time I m here on the gulf coast, too - Pontchartrain Yacht
      Message 2 of 30 , Apr 19, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        If the pump and impeller are OK, check the mixing elbow on the exhaust 
        This tends to corrode over time
        I'm here on the gulf coast, too - Pontchartrain Yacht Club and have recently this problem

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Apr 18, 2013, at 9:20 PM, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:

         

        Thanks all, we will have a look and keep you posted.

        --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
        >
        > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
        >
        > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
        > >
        > > Sent from my iPad
        > >
        > > David L. Hastings
        > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
        > > Crystal River, FL 34429
        > > Home: 352-794-6440
        > > Cell: 315-345-2078
        > >
        > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
        > >
        > > > Hi Steve
        > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
        > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
        > > > Hans
        > > > "Last Dance"
        > > >
        > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >>
        > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
        > > >>
        > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
        > > >>
        > > >> Thanks,
        > > >>
        > > >> Steve
        > > >>
        > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
        > > >> >
        > > >> >
        > > >> > John,
        > > >> >
        > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
        > > >> >
        > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
        > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
        > > >> >
        > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
        > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
        > > >> >
        > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
        > > >> >
        > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
        > > >> >
        > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
        > > >> >
        > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
        > > >> >
        > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
        > > >> >
        > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
        > > >> >
        > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
        > > >> >
        > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
        > > >> >
        > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
        > > >> >
        > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
        > > >> >
        > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
        > > >> >
        > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
        > > >> >
        > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
        > > >> >
        > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
        > > >> >
        > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
        > > >> >
        > > >> > Bill
        > > >> >
        > > >> >
        > > >> >
        > > >> >
        > > >> >
        > > >> >
        > > >> >
        > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
        > > >> > >
        > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
        > > >> > >
        > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
        > > >> > >
        > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
        > > >> > >
        > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
        > > >> > >
        > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
        > > >> > >
        > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
        > > >> > >
        > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
        > > >> > >
        > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
        > > >> > >
        > > >> > > Where should I start?
        > > >> > >
        > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
        > > >> > >
        > > >> > > JP
        > > >> > >
        > > >> >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > __________________________________________________________
        > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
        > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
        > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
        > >
        >

      • thistle4002
        Apologies for the quality... I had to use my phone as my camera is missing (maybe ill find it when I clean out the bassement and all the sailing gear!) These
        Message 3 of 30 , Apr 19, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Apologies for the quality... I had to use my phone as my camera is missing (maybe ill find it when I clean out the bassement and all the sailing gear!)

          These are some photos of my deck recore for those that are interested.   Not too difficult a project, but time consuming and MESSY.
          The best part is that I know my decks are much drier than my sureveyor had indicated based on his moisture meter.
          I had serious rot around both chainplates for a little more than one square foot, but the moisture when double that.  No way that would dry out but the "simple fix of drilling, drying and filling.  I should not say moisture
          as much as SOAKED.  Once the glas was removed. The decay was easily removed and the rest dried very quickly.  I started the "easy way" and just marred my decks on the stbd side.  This is the way to go.

          My next adventure is to figure out how to build a chainplate island, although there is so much epoxy below now that even it water gets inagain it cant ger very far.

          David Hasting of FL took the time to write me a detailed explanation of how to do this (except if anyone knows how to get the port cabinet out without a sawzall please let me know...working inside there is "interesting") 
          I can send a copy of his email and some helpful links if anyone else is abut to start this project

          Ill post more pics soon.

          JP
          On Apr 19, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Tom Quinlan wrote:

           

          If the pump and impeller are OK, check the mixing elbow on the exhaust 
          This tends to corrode over time
          I'm here on the gulf coast, too - Pontchartrain Yacht Club and have recently this problem

          Sent from my iPhone

          On Apr 18, 2013, at 9:20 PM, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:

           

          Thanks all, we will have a look and keep you posted.

          --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
          >
          > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
          >
          > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
          > >
          > > Sent from my iPad
          > >
          > > David L. Hastings
          > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
          > > Crystal River, FL 34429
          > > Home: 352-794-6440
          > > Cell: 315-345-2078
          > >
          > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
          > >
          > > > Hi Steve
          > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
          > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
          > > > Hans
          > > > "Last Dance"
          > > >
          > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >>
          > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
          > > >>
          > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
          > > >>
          > > >> Thanks,
          > > >>
          > > >> Steve
          > > >>
          > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
          > > >> >
          > > >> >
          > > >> > John,
          > > >> >
          > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
          > > >> >
          > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
          > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
          > > >> >
          > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
          > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
          > > >> >
          > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
          > > >> >
          > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
          > > >> >
          > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
          > > >> >
          > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
          > > >> >
          > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
          > > >> >
          > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
          > > >> >
          > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
          > > >> >
          > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
          > > >> >
          > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
          > > >> >
          > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
          > > >> >
          > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
          > > >> >
          > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
          > > >> >
          > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
          > > >> >
          > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
          > > >> >
          > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
          > > >> >
          > > >> > Bill
          > > >> >
          > > >> >
          > > >> >
          > > >> >
          > > >> >
          > > >> >
          > > >> >
          > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > Where should I start?
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
          > > >> > >
          > > >> > > JP
          > > >> > >
          > > >> >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > __________________________________________________________
          > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
          > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
          > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
          > >
          >



        • mcclurejsteven
          Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course, ours doesn t look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove the bracket and turn the
          Message 4 of 30 , Apr 19, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course, ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or ideas?

            Thanks,

            Steve

            --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
            >
            > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
            >
            > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
            > >
            > > Sent from my iPad
            > >
            > > David L. Hastings
            > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
            > > Crystal River, FL 34429
            > > Home: 352-794-6440
            > > Cell: 315-345-2078
            > >
            > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
            > >
            > > > Hi Steve
            > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
            > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
            > > > Hans
            > > > "Last Dance"
            > > >
            > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >>
            > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
            > > >>
            > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
            > > >>
            > > >> Thanks,
            > > >>
            > > >> Steve
            > > >>
            > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
            > > >> >
            > > >> >
            > > >> > John,
            > > >> >
            > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
            > > >> >
            > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
            > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
            > > >> >
            > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
            > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
            > > >> >
            > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
            > > >> >
            > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
            > > >> >
            > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
            > > >> >
            > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
            > > >> >
            > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
            > > >> >
            > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
            > > >> >
            > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
            > > >> >
            > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
            > > >> >
            > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
            > > >> >
            > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
            > > >> >
            > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
            > > >> >
            > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
            > > >> >
            > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
            > > >> >
            > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
            > > >> >
            > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
            > > >> >
            > > >> > Bill
            > > >> >
            > > >> >
            > > >> >
            > > >> >
            > > >> >
            > > >> >
            > > >> >
            > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > Where should I start?
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
            > > >> > >
            > > >> > > JP
            > > >> > >
            > > >> >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ____________________________________________________________
            > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
            > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
            > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
            > >
            >
          • thistle4002
            I am a beginner at this....but i change my impeller every year just on principle. ..... I would double check the hoses and clamps running to and from the water
            Message 5 of 30 , Apr 19, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              I am a beginner at this....but i change my impeller every year just on principle. .....

              I would double check the hoses and clamps running to and from the water pump first.  If you have not change the Impeller in a few seasons, you might have created a leak there when u changed the impeller.
              IF fhat does not solve your problem. The broken off blades of the old impeller may be blocking off the heat exchanger, in which case you have a bigger problem ( read expensive, unless you are a better mechanic than me! )

              The good news is that Yanmars are practically indestuctible!  but don't  run the motor until u have figured out the source of your trouble!

              Wish I could be more help.....sometimes I wonder why I bought a big boat and sold my racing dinghy (thistle).   But J28s are COOL, so I guess in the long run, you take the good with the bad...

              Waiting to hear how you make out.....it will probably be me soon!!!

              JP
              On Apr 19, 2013, at 10:47 PM, mcclurejsteven wrote:

               

              Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course, ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or ideas?

              Thanks,

              Steve

              --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
              >
              > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
              >
              > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
              > >
              > > Sent from my iPad
              > >
              > > David L. Hastings
              > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
              > > Crystal River, FL 34429
              > > Home: 352-794-6440
              > > Cell: 315-345-2078
              > >
              > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
              > >
              > > > Hi Steve
              > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
              > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
              > > > Hans
              > > > "Last Dance"
              > > >
              > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >>
              > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
              > > >>
              > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
              > > >>
              > > >> Thanks,
              > > >>
              > > >> Steve
              > > >>
              > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
              > > >> >
              > > >> >
              > > >> > John,
              > > >> >
              > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
              > > >> >
              > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
              > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
              > > >> >
              > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
              > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
              > > >> >
              > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
              > > >> >
              > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
              > > >> >
              > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
              > > >> >
              > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
              > > >> >
              > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
              > > >> >
              > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
              > > >> >
              > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
              > > >> >
              > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
              > > >> >
              > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
              > > >> >
              > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
              > > >> >
              > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
              > > >> >
              > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
              > > >> >
              > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
              > > >> >
              > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
              > > >> >
              > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
              > > >> >
              > > >> > Bill
              > > >> >
              > > >> >
              > > >> >
              > > >> >
              > > >> >
              > > >> >
              > > >> >
              > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
              > > >> > >
              > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
              > > >> > >
              > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
              > > >> > >
              > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
              > > >> > >
              > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
              > > >> > >
              > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
              > > >> > >
              > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
              > > >> > >
              > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
              > > >> > >
              > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
              > > >> > >
              > > >> > > Where should I start?
              > > >> > >
              > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
              > > >> > >
              > > >> > > JP
              > > >> > >
              > > >> >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > __________________________________________________________
              > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
              > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
              > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
              > >
              >


            • Jerry Nulton
              I give all of you credit. My answer to all of this is call the yard . I love sailing, maintenance not so much. SeaBird Hull #87 Sent from my iPhone ... I give
              Message 6 of 30 , Apr 20, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                I give all of you credit. My answer to all of this is "call the yard". I love sailing, maintenance not so much. 

                SeaBird Hull #87

                Sent from my iPhone

                On Apr 19, 2013, at 10:47 PM, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:

                 

                Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course, ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or ideas?

                Thanks,

                Steve

                --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                >
                > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
                >
                > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
                > >
                > > Sent from my iPad
                > >
                > > David L. Hastings
                > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                > > Crystal River, FL 34429
                > > Home: 352-794-6440
                > > Cell: 315-345-2078
                > >
                > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
                > >
                > > > Hi Steve
                > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                > > > Hans
                > > > "Last Dance"
                > > >
                > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >>
                > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
                > > >>
                > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                > > >>
                > > >> Thanks,
                > > >>
                > > >> Steve
                > > >>
                > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
                > > >> >
                > > >> >
                > > >> > John,
                > > >> >
                > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                > > >> >
                > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                > > >> >
                > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                > > >> >
                > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                > > >> >
                > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                > > >> >
                > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                > > >> >
                > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                > > >> >
                > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                > > >> >
                > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                > > >> >
                > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                > > >> >
                > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                > > >> >
                > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                > > >> >
                > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                > > >> >
                > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                > > >> >
                > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                > > >> >
                > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                > > >> >
                > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                > > >> >
                > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                > > >> >
                > > >> > Bill
                > > >> >
                > > >> >
                > > >> >
                > > >> >
                > > >> >
                > > >> >
                > > >> >
                > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                > > >> > >
                > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                > > >> > >
                > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                > > >> > >
                > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                > > >> > >
                > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                > > >> > >
                > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                > > >> > >
                > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                > > >> > >
                > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                > > >> > >
                > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                > > >> > >
                > > >> > > Where should I start?
                > > >> > >
                > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                > > >> > >
                > > >> > > JP
                > > >> > >
                > > >> >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > __________________________________________________________
                > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
                > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
                > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
                > >
                >

              • David Hastings
                As a general rule, I never think worst scenario first. I d check your hoses and hose clamps. Very likely one may have cracked when you moved the water pump.
                Message 7 of 30 , Apr 20, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  As a general rule, I never think worst scenario first. I'd check your hoses and hose clamps. Very likely one may have cracked when you moved the water pump. I'd bet at least 10 cents that it's nothing more than a hose. With regard to changing the impeller often, I never have and never had a problem. I owned a J29 inboard for 28 years. Raced it hard and ran it hard. Never changed the impeller and never had a problem. I will say I took good care of the engine. Always was careful to use good fuel, topped it off every year, changed belts occasionally, winterized it myself and flushed it our real good each fall. I think that's the key. Also, changed fuel filters only once on that boat and that was due to running it out of fuel one time, thus sucking some dirt into the filter. I will admit the 29 was used exclusively in fresh water. Anyhow, check the hoses real good.

                  Sent from my iPad

                  David L. Hastings
                  5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                  Crystal River, FL 34429
                  Home: 352-794-6440
                  Cell: 315-345-2078

                  On Apr 19, 2013, at 10:47 PM, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:

                   

                  Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course, ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or ideas?

                  Thanks,

                  Steve

                  --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
                  >
                  > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
                  > >
                  > > Sent from my iPad
                  > >
                  > > David L. Hastings
                  > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                  > > Crystal River, FL 34429
                  > > Home: 352-794-6440
                  > > Cell: 315-345-2078
                  > >
                  > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Hi Steve
                  > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                  > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                  > > > Hans
                  > > > "Last Dance"
                  > > >
                  > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Thanks,
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Steve
                  > > >>
                  > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > John,
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                  > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                  > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > Bill
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                  > > >> > >
                  > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                  > > >> > >
                  > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                  > > >> > >
                  > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                  > > >> > >
                  > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                  > > >> > >
                  > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                  > > >> > >
                  > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                  > > >> > >
                  > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                  > > >> > >
                  > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                  > > >> > >
                  > > >> > > Where should I start?
                  > > >> > >
                  > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                  > > >> > >
                  > > >> > > JP
                  > > >> > >
                  > > >> >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > __________________________________________________________
                  > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
                  > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
                  > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
                  > >
                  >



                  ____________________________________________________________
                  When Diet & Exercise Fail
                  Cut down a bit of stomach fat every day by fixing 3 fat loss hormones.
                  RealDose.com
                • mcclurejsteven
                  OK, I have a great resource, Ed Wahl, at Eastern Shore Marine, http://www.easternshoremarineinc.com/ on Fly Creek in Fairhope, Al. I sent them an e-mail on
                  Message 8 of 30 , Apr 29, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    OK, I have a great resource, Ed Wahl, at Eastern Shore Marine, http://www.easternshoremarineinc.com/
                    on Fly Creek in Fairhope, Al. I sent them an e-mail on the flight to Germany last weekend and they went to work. They said the pre-formed hose had been overheated and was trashed, so they replaced it. Once on, there was still no discharge, so they removed it and found the mixing elbow was clogged with a graphite looking compound. They said they had never seen one clogged this bad. They cleaned it out and put it together so we could participate in the 55th Annual Dauphin Island Race,
                    http://55thdauphinislandrace.com/
                    and we had a successful race in excellent weather. (Successful equals not turning the boat over and not running out of beer.) He called me at work today to let me know that even they had patched it up for the race, he strongly recommended that I OK a new gasket, which he had to order and it would not be here until next week.
                    As for results, we were 16th out of 34 boats, but the skipper ignored a cardinal rule about always take the long tack first and over stood a mark on the 18 mile course by about one mile in a steadily clocking wind, costing us probably ten minutes. Blaming it on jet lag...

                    Steve
                    --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, sailingmaster@... wrote:
                    >
                    > I am a beginner at this....but i change my impeller every year just on
                    > principle. .....
                    >
                    > I would double check the hoses and clamps running to and from the
                    > water pump first. If you have not change the Impeller in a few
                    > seasons, you might have created a leak there when u changed the
                    > impeller.
                    > IF fhat does not solve your problem. The broken off blades of the old
                    > impeller may be blocking off the heat exchanger, in which case you
                    > have a bigger problem ( read expensive, unless you are a better
                    > mechanic than me! )
                    >
                    > The good news is that Yanmars are practically indestuctible! but
                    > don't run the motor until u have figured out the source of your
                    > trouble!
                    >
                    > Wish I could be more help.....sometimes I wonder why I bought a big
                    > boat and sold my racing dinghy (thistle). But J28s are COOL, so I
                    > guess in the long run, you take the good with the bad...
                    >
                    > Waiting to hear how you make out.....it will probably be me soon!!!
                    >
                    > JP
                    > On Apr 19, 2013, at 10:47 PM, mcclurejsteven wrote:
                    >
                    > > Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course,
                    > > ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove
                    > > the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm
                    > > socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent
                    > > wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it
                    > > up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out
                    > > under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an
                    > > early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining
                    > > pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would
                    > > have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel
                    > > and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or
                    > > ideas?
                    > >
                    > > Thanks,
                    > >
                    > > Steve
                    > >
                    > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty
                    > > easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good
                    > > waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This
                    > > makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have
                    > > the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings
                    > > <david.hastings@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be
                    > > slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other
                    > > thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a
                    > > couple of years ago without warning.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Sent from my iPad
                    > > > >
                    > > > > David L. Hastings
                    > > > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                    > > > > Crystal River, FL 34429
                    > > > > Home: 352-794-6440
                    > > > > Cell: 315-345-2078
                    > > > >
                    > > > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > > Hi Steve
                    > > > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                    > > > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                    > > > > > Hans
                    > > > > > "Last Dance"
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with
                    > > no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds
                    > > like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water
                    > > coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start
                    > > checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the
                    > > intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow
                    > > from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the
                    > > radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two
                    > > minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without
                    > > water coming out, I turned it off.
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Thanks,
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> Steve
                    > > > > >>
                    > > > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > John,
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own
                    > > maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts
                    > > first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most
                    > > complicated expensive potential problems.
                    > > > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time
                    > > following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen
                    > > but might)
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off
                    > > this past spring?
                    > > > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/
                    > > don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start
                    > > simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the
                    > > overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load
                    > > and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until
                    > > spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with
                    > > it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the
                    > > time in the world now over the winter.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level
                    > > closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in
                    > > mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold
                    > > when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need
                    > > to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to
                    > > compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had
                    > > your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level
                    > > will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise
                    > > may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack
                    > > and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt
                    > > any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the
                    > > coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully
                    > > closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it,
                    > > did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it
                    > > into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near
                    > > the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a
                    > > hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they
                    > > leak?
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is
                    > > coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort
                    > > that would have noticed and commented.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm
                    > > thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might
                    > > have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine
                    > > compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the
                    > > coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the
                    > > bilge smell of coolant?
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively
                    > > cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest
                    > > seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie:
                    > > pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out
                    > > with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy
                    > > thing to check.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and
                    > > coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think
                    > > this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do
                    > > not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a
                    > > very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you
                    > > use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no
                    > > visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not
                    > > trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect,
                    > > again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on
                    > > intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too
                    > > bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat
                    > > and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at
                    > > about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x
                    > > 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a
                    > > martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just
                    > > interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your
                    > > lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the
                    > > higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded
                    > > above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and
                    > > still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my
                    > > engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine
                    > > pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the
                    > > fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine
                    > > even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the
                    > > problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she
                    > > would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-
                    > > burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope
                    > > to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you
                    > > might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and
                    > > down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to
                    > > cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up
                    > > and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes
                    > > time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you
                    > > throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned
                    > > fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as
                    > > overloading the engine, temporarily.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat,
                    > > I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the
                    > > boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some
                    > > hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep
                    > > it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be
                    > > the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at
                    > > start up that is the source.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > Bill
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > > >> > >
                    > > > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                    > > > > >> > >
                    > > > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the
                    > > anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full
                    > > but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                    > > > > >> > >
                    > > > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never
                    > > got up more than 120 degrees.
                    > > > > >> > >
                    > > > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am
                    > > losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat
                    > > causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                    > > > > >> > >
                    > > > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue
                    > > on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know
                    > > another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is
                    > > not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to
                    > > conclusions..
                    > > > > >> > >
                    > > > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and
                    > > could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of
                    > > black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12
                    > > and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and
                    > > there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does
                    > > however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                    > > > > >> > >
                    > > > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or
                    > > blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season
                    > > (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall
                    > > and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I
                    > > mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo
                    > > engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the
                    > > mystery of the coolant..
                    > > > > >> > >
                    > > > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/
                    > > foam or water
                    > > > > >> > >
                    > > > > >> > > Where should I start?
                    > > > > >> > >
                    > > > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                    > > > > >> > >
                    > > > > >> > > JP
                    > > > > >> > >
                    > > > > >> >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > __________________________________________________________
                    > > > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
                    > > > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find
                    > > Out Here.
                    > > > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Marc
                    I experienced the same symptoms and traced the problem to the same place. It was time consuming since I started at the impeller, moved to the exchanger and
                    Message 9 of 30 , Apr 29, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I experienced the same symptoms and traced the problem to the same place. It was time consuming since I started at the impeller, moved to the exchanger and found elbow clogged. I always seem to find these problems in the last palace I look. The only cost was the price of a new gasket, about $5.
                      Marc
                      J/28 59

                      --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > OK, I have a great resource, Ed Wahl, at Eastern Shore Marine, http://www.easternshoremarineinc.com/
                      > on Fly Creek in Fairhope, Al. I sent them an e-mail on the flight to Germany last weekend and they went to work. They said the pre-formed hose had been overheated and was trashed, so they replaced it. Once on, there was still no discharge, so they removed it and found the mixing elbow was clogged with a graphite looking compound. They said they had never seen one clogged this bad. They cleaned it out and put it together so we could participate in the 55th Annual Dauphin Island Race,
                      > http://55thdauphinislandrace.com/
                      > and we had a successful race in excellent weather. (Successful equals not turning the boat over and not running out of beer.) He called me at work today to let me know that even they had patched it up for the race, he strongly recommended that I OK a new gasket, which he had to order and it would not be here until next week.
                      > As for results, we were 16th out of 34 boats, but the skipper ignored a cardinal rule about always take the long tack first and over stood a mark on the 18 mile course by about one mile in a steadily clocking wind, costing us probably ten minutes. Blaming it on jet lag...
                      >
                      > Steve
                      > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, sailingmaster@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I am a beginner at this....but i change my impeller every year just on
                      > > principle. .....
                      > >
                      > > I would double check the hoses and clamps running to and from the
                      > > water pump first. If you have not change the Impeller in a few
                      > > seasons, you might have created a leak there when u changed the
                      > > impeller.
                      > > IF fhat does not solve your problem. The broken off blades of the old
                      > > impeller may be blocking off the heat exchanger, in which case you
                      > > have a bigger problem ( read expensive, unless you are a better
                      > > mechanic than me! )
                      > >
                      > > The good news is that Yanmars are practically indestuctible! but
                      > > don't run the motor until u have figured out the source of your
                      > > trouble!
                      > >
                      > > Wish I could be more help.....sometimes I wonder why I bought a big
                      > > boat and sold my racing dinghy (thistle). But J28s are COOL, so I
                      > > guess in the long run, you take the good with the bad...
                      > >
                      > > Waiting to hear how you make out.....it will probably be me soon!!!
                      > >
                      > > JP
                      > > On Apr 19, 2013, at 10:47 PM, mcclurejsteven wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course,
                      > > > ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove
                      > > > the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm
                      > > > socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent
                      > > > wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it
                      > > > up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out
                      > > > under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an
                      > > > early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining
                      > > > pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would
                      > > > have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel
                      > > > and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or
                      > > > ideas?
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks,
                      > > >
                      > > > Steve
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty
                      > > > easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good
                      > > > waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This
                      > > > makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have
                      > > > the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings
                      > > > <david.hastings@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be
                      > > > slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other
                      > > > thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a
                      > > > couple of years ago without warning.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Sent from my iPad
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > David L. Hastings
                      > > > > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                      > > > > > Crystal River, FL 34429
                      > > > > > Home: 352-794-6440
                      > > > > > Cell: 315-345-2078
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Hi Steve
                      > > > > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                      > > > > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                      > > > > > > Hans
                      > > > > > > "Last Dance"
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@>
                      > > > wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >>
                      > > > > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with
                      > > > no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds
                      > > > like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water
                      > > > coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start
                      > > > checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the
                      > > > intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow
                      > > > from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the
                      > > > radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two
                      > > > minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without
                      > > > water coming out, I turned it off.
                      > > > > > >>
                      > > > > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                      > > > > > >>
                      > > > > > >> Thanks,
                      > > > > > >>
                      > > > > > >> Steve
                      > > > > > >>
                      > > > > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@>
                      > > > wrote:
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > John,
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own
                      > > > maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts
                      > > > first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most
                      > > > complicated expensive potential problems.
                      > > > > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time
                      > > > following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen
                      > > > but might)
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off
                      > > > this past spring?
                      > > > > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/
                      > > > don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start
                      > > > simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the
                      > > > overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load
                      > > > and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until
                      > > > spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with
                      > > > it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the
                      > > > time in the world now over the winter.
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level
                      > > > closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in
                      > > > mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold
                      > > > when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need
                      > > > to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to
                      > > > compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had
                      > > > your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level
                      > > > will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise
                      > > > may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack
                      > > > and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt
                      > > > any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the
                      > > > coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully
                      > > > closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it,
                      > > > did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it
                      > > > into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near
                      > > > the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a
                      > > > hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they
                      > > > leak?
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is
                      > > > coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort
                      > > > that would have noticed and commented.
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm
                      > > > thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might
                      > > > have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine
                      > > > compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the
                      > > > coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the
                      > > > bilge smell of coolant?
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively
                      > > > cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest
                      > > > seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie:
                      > > > pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out
                      > > > with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy
                      > > > thing to check.
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and
                      > > > coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think
                      > > > this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do
                      > > > not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a
                      > > > very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you
                      > > > use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no
                      > > > visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not
                      > > > trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect,
                      > > > again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on
                      > > > intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too
                      > > > bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat
                      > > > and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at
                      > > > about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x
                      > > > 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a
                      > > > martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just
                      > > > interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your
                      > > > lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the
                      > > > higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded
                      > > > above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and
                      > > > still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my
                      > > > engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine
                      > > > pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the
                      > > > fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine
                      > > > even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the
                      > > > problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she
                      > > > would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-
                      > > > burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope
                      > > > to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you
                      > > > might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and
                      > > > down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to
                      > > > cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up
                      > > > and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes
                      > > > time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you
                      > > > throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned
                      > > > fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as
                      > > > overloading the engine, temporarily.
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat,
                      > > > I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the
                      > > > boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some
                      > > > hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep
                      > > > it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be
                      > > > the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at
                      > > > start up that is the source.
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > Bill
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@>
                      > > > wrote:
                      > > > > > >> > >
                      > > > > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                      > > > > > >> > >
                      > > > > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the
                      > > > anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full
                      > > > but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                      > > > > > >> > >
                      > > > > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never
                      > > > got up more than 120 degrees.
                      > > > > > >> > >
                      > > > > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am
                      > > > losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat
                      > > > causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                      > > > > > >> > >
                      > > > > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue
                      > > > on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know
                      > > > another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is
                      > > > not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to
                      > > > conclusions..
                      > > > > > >> > >
                      > > > > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and
                      > > > could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of
                      > > > black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12
                      > > > and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and
                      > > > there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does
                      > > > however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                      > > > > > >> > >
                      > > > > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or
                      > > > blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season
                      > > > (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall
                      > > > and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I
                      > > > mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo
                      > > > engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the
                      > > > mystery of the coolant..
                      > > > > > >> > >
                      > > > > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/
                      > > > foam or water
                      > > > > > >> > >
                      > > > > > >> > > Where should I start?
                      > > > > > >> > >
                      > > > > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                      > > > > > >> > >
                      > > > > > >> > > JP
                      > > > > > >> > >
                      > > > > > >> >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
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                      > >
                      >
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