Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Questions for the group

Expand Messages
  • jhoagg123
    BTW - I just posted pictures of my boat (Hull #25 - rechristened Akula ). Her factory gelcoat color is medium grey (with red gelcoat boot and cove stripes).
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 8, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      BTW - I just posted pictures of my boat (Hull #25 - rechristened "Akula"). Her factory gelcoat color is medium grey (with red gelcoat boot and cove stripes). The hull was heavily oxidized when I bought the boat, and I just spent days wet sanding, compounding and polishing the gelcoat. I learned a lot in the process, so if anyone has this type of project coming up, I might have some helpful tips.



      --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
      >
      > John,
      > Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.
      >
      > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello all
      > >
      > > Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
      > >
      > > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
      > > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
      > >
      > > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
      > > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
      > >
      > > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
      > >
      > > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
      > >
      > > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
      > >
      > > JP
      > >
      >
    • andersenhans15
      Hi John, I have used CETOL on my Boats and still using it on My J28, I use sandpaper and on top I can use an electric sander Then two coats of new CETOL after
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 8, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi John,
        I have used CETOL on my Boats and still using it on My J28, I use sandpaper and on top I can use an electric sander
        Then two coats of new CETOL after a season I just brush on some on the top and it works well for about 3 years
        in my climate on Lake StClair Michigan area
        Good luck, let us know how you make our with all of it
        Hans
        J28
        "Last Dance"
        ---- Original Message ----
        From: jhoagg123 <jhoagg123@...>
        To: J28Sailors <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Fri, Mar 8, 2013 7:02 am
        Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: Questions for the group

         
        John,
        Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.

        --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello all
        >
        > Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
        >
        > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
        > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
        >
        > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
        > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
        >
        > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
        >
        > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
        >
        > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
        >
        > JP
        >

      • David Hastings
        I ve always used Semco teak sealer on my top sides. It s easy to apply and maintain as it has no oil but it does require a couple of applications per season.
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 8, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          I've always used Semco teak sealer on my top sides. It's easy to apply and maintain as it has no oil but it does require a couple of applications per season.

          Sent from my iPad

          David L. Hastings
          5608 W. Woodside Dr.
          Crystal River, FL 34429
          Home: 352-794-6440
          Cell: 315-345-2078

          On Mar 8, 2013, at 11:32 AM, hansandsharon@... wrote:

           

          Hi John,
          I have used CETOL on my Boats and still using it on My J28, I use sandpaper and on top I can use an electric sander
          Then two coats of new CETOL after a season I just brush on some on the top and it works well for about 3 years
          in my climate on Lake StClair Michigan area
          Good luck, let us know how you make our with all of it
          Hans
          J28
          "Last Dance"
          ---- Original Message ----
          From: jhoagg123 <jhoagg123@...>
          To: J28Sailors <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Fri, Mar 8, 2013 7:02 am
          Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: Questions for the group

           
          John,
          Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.

          --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello all
          >
          > Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
          >
          > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
          > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
          >
          > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
          > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
          >
          > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
          >
          > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
          >
          > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
          >
          > JP
          >



          ____________________________________________________________
          "How To Get More Muscle"
          Spikes Muscle Growth 6% in 10 Days -- But Is It an Unfair Advantage?
          HLifestyles.com
        • thistle4002
          I LIKE SIMPLE TEAK OIL FOR THE WASE OF USE AND CLEAN UP....MY QUESTION IS MORE HOW TO GET THE OLD STUFF OFF WITH MINIMAL MESS AND EFFORT (MAYBE IM DREAMING AND
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 8, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            I LIKE SIMPLE TEAK OIL FOR THE WASE OF USE AND CLEAN UP....MY QUESTION IS MORE HOW TO GET THE OLD STUFF OFF WITH MINIMAL MESS AND EFFORT
            (MAYBE IM DREAMING AND SHOULD JUST GET OUT THE SANDPAPER....LOL)

            J
            On Mar 8, 2013, at 12:49 PM, David Hastings wrote:

             

            I've always used Semco teak sealer on my top sides. It's easy to apply and maintain as it has no oil but it does require a couple of applications per season.

            Sent from my iPad

            David L. Hastings
            5608 W. Woodside Dr.
            Crystal River, FL 34429
            Home: 352-794-6440
            Cell: 315-345-2078

            On Mar 8, 2013, at 11:32 AM, hansandsharon@... wrote:

             

            Hi John,
            I have used CETOL on my Boats and still using it on My J28, I use sandpaper and on top I can use an electric sander
            Then two coats of new CETOL after a season I just brush on some on the top and it works well for about 3 years
            in my climate on Lake StClair Michigan area
            Good luck, let us know how you make our with all of it
            Hans
            J28
            "Last Dance"
            ---- Original Message ----
            From: jhoagg123 <jhoagg123@...>
            To: J28Sailors <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Fri, Mar 8, 2013 7:02 am
            Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: Questions for the group

             
            John,
            Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.

            --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello all
            >
            > Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
            >
            > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
            > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
            >
            > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
            > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
            >
            > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
            >
            > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
            >
            > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
            >
            > JP
            >




            ____________________________________________________________
            "How To Get More Muscle"
            Spikes Muscle Growth 6% in 10 Days -- But Is It an Unfair Advantage?
            HLifestyles.com


          • Frank Francis
            Use a heat gun and peel it off. It can burn the wood if you re not careful. Sanding takes wood off with it. The heat gun worked great on my Cape Dory, and she
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 8, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Use a heat gun and peel it off. It can burn the wood if you're not careful. Sanding takes wood off with it. The heat gun worked great on my Cape Dory, and she had a lot of teak!

              Frank

              On Mar 8, 2013, at 12:02 PM, sailingmaster@... wrote:

               

              I LIKE SIMPLE TEAK OIL FOR THE WASE OF USE AND CLEAN UP....MY QUESTION IS MORE HOW TO GET THE OLD STUFF OFF WITH MINIMAL MESS AND EFFORT

              (MAYBE IM DREAMING AND SHOULD JUST GET OUT THE SANDPAPER....LOL)

              J
              On Mar 8, 2013, at 12:49 PM, David Hastings wrote:

               

              I've always used Semco teak sealer on my top sides. It's easy to apply and maintain as it has no oil but it does require a couple of applications per season.

              Sent from my iPad

              David L. Hastings
              5608 W. Woodside Dr.
              Crystal River, FL 34429
              Home: 352-794-6440
              Cell: 315-345-2078

              On Mar 8, 2013, at 11:32 AM, hansandsharon@... wrote:

               

              Hi John,
              I have used CETOL on my Boats and still using it on My J28, I use sandpaper and on top I can use an electric sander
              Then two coats of new CETOL after a season I just brush on some on the top and it works well for about 3 years
              in my climate on Lake StClair Michigan area
              Good luck, let us know how you make our with all of it
              Hans
              J28
              "Last Dance"
              ---- Original Message ----
              From: jhoagg123 <jhoagg123@...>
              To: J28Sailors <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Fri, Mar 8, 2013 7:02 am
              Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: Questions for the group

               
              John,
              Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.

              --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello all
              >
              > Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
              >
              > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
              > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
              >
              > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
              > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
              >
              > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
              >
              > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
              >
              > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
              >
              > JP
              >




              ____________________________________________________________
              "How To Get More Muscle"
              Spikes Muscle Growth 6% in 10 Days -- But Is It an Unfair Advantage?
              HLifestyles.com




            • taylorbj28
              John, I have been trying to buff out gelcoat oxidation with a buffer and Rule Restorer and Wax. Not sure how it will last. Did you wet sand,then use rubbing
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 24, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                John,

                I have been trying to buff out gelcoat oxidation with a buffer and Rule Restorer and Wax. Not sure how it will last. Did you wet sand,then use rubbing compound, then polish?? I am trying to do it in one step. Advise?

                I also am thinking of repairing some wet balsa around my port chainplate (10" square)from underneath so as not to damage the deck from the top. I would love to hear how this is going for you!

                Thank you,
                Brad Taylor

                --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                >
                > BTW - I just posted pictures of my boat (Hull #25 - rechristened "Akula"). Her factory gelcoat color is medium grey (with red gelcoat boot and cove stripes). The hull was heavily oxidized when I bought the boat, and I just spent days wet sanding, compounding and polishing the gelcoat. I learned a lot in the process, so if anyone has this type of project coming up, I might have some helpful tips.
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
                > >
                > > John,
                > > Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.
                > >
                > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hello all
                > > >
                > > > Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
                > > >
                > > > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
                > > > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
                > > >
                > > > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
                > > > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
                > > >
                > > > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
                > > >
                > > > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
                > > >
                > > > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
                > > >
                > > > JP
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • thistle4002
                I am presently re-coring the area around my chainplates. I suspect that ALL of the boats have this issue to one degree or another. You can probably live with
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 24, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  I am presently re-coring the area around my chainplates.  I suspect that ALL of the boats have this issue to one degree or another.
                  You can probably live with it for a while. I plan on keeping the boat for a good length of time and wanted to prevent it from getting any worse.

                  I got a lot of help from David Hastings. If you email me directly, I will send you the advice he gave me. Its rather long to post here, but very helpful. He was very kind to take the time to walk me thru it.
                  my direct email is sailingmaster@...

                  When I bought the boat, my surveyor said there was moisture at the chainplates and the tracks.  I am happy to say the area around the tracks is dry as far as I can tell. They are removed and I have drill afew extra inspection holes and
                  find just dry balsa.
                   
                  Around my chain plates was another story. The core around the chainplates was completely soaked about 1 foot forward and aft rand inboard to the cabin side.  There was a lot of rot in the area immediately at the chainplate.
                  At first, I tried the short cut method of drilling holes in the deck, drying and re epoxying (see Don Casey et al)  DO NOT DO THIS!  The area will not dry and you will probably find more rot than you think is there. You will assuredly find wet core.  Due to my haste, I am going to end up with a visible painted section in my deck. 

                  After my mistake, I decided to go in underneath.  I cut away a section of the headliner aft of the bulkhead on both side (chain plates already removed) and then I opened up a section of glass to expose the core, this let me see what was really going on inside the deck. I removed a lot of wet core and found still good but wet core that I was able to dry with a fan and space heater.

                  Next, on the starboard side, I removed the hanging locker and repeated the same process on the forward side of the bulkhead. This was not too difficult, but a royal pain in the ass just figuring how to get it detached!!  I am about to do the same to port, but I cannot seem to get the cabinet out, even after removing all the fasteners.  I may work thru the cabinet door though..luckily on my boat the moisture/rot was much worse on the stbd side and I suspect there is very litte to remove to port.

                  I would recommend investing in a FEIN MULT-TOOL l to do the cutting and removal of the glass/balsa. It is much better than the copies and does the job NEATLY and quickly with little mess and not blowing dust all over the cabin.

                  Next I am going to epoxy new balsa in place.  There are two schools of thought on this. One is pressing a large section of balsa back in and bracing to hold it in place. the other is to put it in in smaller pieces, wetting out, 
                  then coating the balsa in thickened (to peanut butter consistency)and simply working a small section at a time. Then fill any gaps with thickened epoxy, sand and cover with new glass. I am going to use the second method based on David Recommendation and the fact that it is not a structural area that needs a lot of strength. 

                  When cutting out the glass, I am told that you can be carefu land save the original cut out out piece and re lamintate it when the job is done.........good luck with that!  The glass around the rot came out easily, but ther rest was still solidly bonded to the wet balsa and was a royal pain to separate, In the end, i found it  easier to section out in smaller areas, cleaning as you go with a shop vac)

                  There are several epoxies you can use. West is the best known, but its very brittle once hardened.  You can use West GFlex, which stays a little more pliable and will work if there is a littel moisture still there.
                  I also checked out Smiths and MAS.  I ended up with the MAS based on recommendations from some boat builders at a local show (they were the ones that explained the differences to me.)

                  I am going to use Smith's CPES to seal the wood around the holes for the genoa tracks and then re-bed with 3M 4000. Many use 4200, but it will not bond with both METAL and FG.  Again, another save but the 
                  boat builder guys.

                  I am going to start taking some photos, and will post soon on the yahoo page

                  Let me know if I can help you further. I was going to try to buff  out my gel coat this year, but due to this project there will not be enough time before I launch late april. I would like to know what your find out for next season

                  JP


                  On Mar 24, 2013, at 6:02 PM, taylorbj28 wrote:

                   

                  John,

                  I have been trying to buff out gelcoat oxidation with a buffer and Rule Restorer and Wax. Not sure how it will last. Did you wet sand,then use rubbing compound, then polish?? I am trying to do it in one step. Advise?

                  I also am thinking of repairing some wet balsa around my port chainplate (10" square)from underneath so as not to damage the deck from the top. I would love to hear how this is going for you!

                  Thank you,
                  Brad Taylor

                  --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > BTW - I just posted pictures of my boat (Hull #25 - rechristened "Akula"). Her factory gelcoat color is medium grey (with red gelcoat boot and cove stripes). The hull was heavily oxidized when I bought the boat, and I just spent days wet sanding, compounding and polishing the gelcoat. I learned a lot in the process, so if anyone has this type of project coming up, I might have some helpful tips.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > John,
                  > > Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.
                  > >
                  > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hello all
                  > > >
                  > > > Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
                  > > >
                  > > > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
                  > > > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
                  > > >
                  > > > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
                  > > > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
                  > > >
                  > > > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
                  > > >
                  > > > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
                  > > >
                  > > > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
                  > > >
                  > > > JP
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >


                • Jeff Hoagg
                  Brad, You will find the degree of oxidization will determine how you must deal with it.  Yes, very light oxidization can probably be removed in one step with
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 24, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Brad,
                    You will find the degree of oxidization will determine how you must deal with it.  Yes, very light oxidization can probably be removed in one step with the a cleaner/wax.  But even moderate oxidization will require two steps.  First some type of rubbing compound (light duty or heavier duty) applied by machine, and then a polish/wax.  Finally, if you have heavy oxidization, there is simply no way around 3 steps to get good results:  1) wet sanding 2) compounding 3) polish/wax. 

                    If what you are currently using is not yielding good results, then it simply isn't aggressive enough.  Just about  any amount of oxidization requires that you actually remove a very thin top layer of the (oxidized and compromised) gelcoat.  

                    If you have moderate oxidization, don't hesitate to first use a rubbing compound with a machine.  Yes, the extra step takes time, but the buffing/polishing  machine at least does a lot of the work for you. If you have heavier oxidization, and really want to restore the shine, etc. of the gelcoat, don't be afraid of wet sanding.  It does take time and effort, but the results are worth it if you want to bring back the shiny gelcoat look.   And wet sanding is not rocket science.  It can sound a bit scary, but simply using the right grit wet/dry paper and a few simple tips make it much easier than it sounds.    

                    I found some really good "how-to" articles with specific useful tips I can send you if you like.  
                         

                    From: taylorbj28 <taylorbj28@...>
                    To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:02 PM
                    Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: Questions for the group

                     
                    John,

                    I have been trying to buff out gelcoat oxidation with a buffer and Rule Restorer and Wax. Not sure how it will last. Did you wet sand,then use rubbing compound, then polish?? I am trying to do it in one step. Advise?

                    I also am thinking of repairing some wet balsa around my port chainplate (10" square)from underneath so as not to damage the deck from the top. I would love to hear how this is going for you!

                    Thank you,
                    Brad Taylor

                    --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > BTW - I just posted pictures of my boat (Hull #25 - rechristened "Akula"). Her factory gelcoat color is medium grey (with red gelcoat boot and cove stripes). The hull was heavily oxidized when I bought the boat, and I just spent days wet sanding, compounding and polishing the gelcoat. I learned a lot in the process, so if anyone has this type of project coming up, I might have some helpful tips.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > John,
                    > > Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.
                    > >
                    > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello all
                    > > >
                    > > > Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
                    > > >
                    > > > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
                    > > > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
                    > > >
                    > > > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
                    > > > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
                    > > >
                    > > > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
                    > > >
                    > > > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
                    > > >
                    > > > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
                    > > >
                    > > > JP
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >



                  • j28boat13
                    Brad, I m going through the gelcoat restoration process on my J28 as well. I m following the guidelines that Maine Sail posted on sailnet.
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 25, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Brad,

                      I'm going through the gelcoat restoration process on my J28 as well. I'm following the guidelines that Maine Sail posted on sailnet. http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/52772-tips-compound-polish-wax.html. This may be one of the links that Jeff referenced. I found it very helpful.

                      Good luck!

                      Jeff

                      --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Hoagg <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Brad,
                      > You will find the degree of oxidization will determine how you must deal with it.  Yes, very light oxidization can probably be removed in one step with the a cleaner/wax.  But even moderate oxidization will require two steps.  First some type of rubbing compound (light duty or heavier duty) applied by machine, and then a polish/wax.  Finally, if you have heavy oxidization, there is simply no way around 3 steps to get good results:  1) wet sanding 2) compounding 3) polish/wax. 
                      >
                      > If what you are currently using is not yielding good results, then it simply isn't aggressive enough.  Just about  any amount of oxidization requires that you actually remove a very thin top layer of the (oxidized and compromised) gelcoat.  
                      >
                      > If you have moderate oxidization, don't hesitate to first use a rubbing compound with a machine.  Yes, the extra step takes time, but the buffing/polishing  machine at least does a lot of the work for you. If you have heavier oxidization, and really want to restore the shine, etc. of the gelcoat, don't be afraid of wet sanding.  It does take time and effort, but the results are worth it if you want to bring back the shiny gelcoat look.   And wet sanding is not rocket science.  It can sound a bit scary, but simply using the right grit wet/dry paper and a few simple tips make it much easier than it sounds.    
                      >
                      > I found some really good "how-to" articles with specific useful tips I can send you if you like.  
                      >      
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: taylorbj28 <taylorbj28@...>
                      > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:02 PM
                      > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: Questions for the group
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      > John,
                      >
                      > I have been trying to buff out gelcoat oxidation with a buffer and Rule Restorer and Wax. Not sure how it will last. Did you wet sand,then use rubbing compound, then polish?? I am trying to do it in one step. Advise?
                      >
                      > I also am thinking of repairing some wet balsa around my port chainplate (10" square)from underneath so as not to damage the deck from the top. I would love to hear how this is going for you!
                      >
                      > Thank you,
                      > Brad Taylor
                      >
                      > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > BTW - I just posted pictures of my boat (Hull #25 - rechristened "Akula"). Her factory gelcoat color is medium grey (with red gelcoat boot and cove stripes). The hull was heavily oxidized when I bought the boat, and I just spent days wet sanding, compounding and polishing the gelcoat. I learned a lot in the process, so if anyone has this type of project coming up, I might have some helpful tips.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > John,
                      > > > Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hello all
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
                      > > > > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
                      > > > > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > JP
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • taylorbj28
                      John, Sure, I would welcome the articles and tips! Thank you, Brad
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 27, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        John,

                        Sure, I would welcome the articles and tips! Thank you, Brad

                        --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Hoagg <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Brad,
                        > You will find the degree of oxidization will determine how you must deal with it.  Yes, very light oxidization can probably be removed in one step with the a cleaner/wax.  But even moderate oxidization will require two steps.  First some type of rubbing compound (light duty or heavier duty) applied by machine, and then a polish/wax.  Finally, if you have heavy oxidization, there is simply no way around 3 steps to get good results:  1) wet sanding 2) compounding 3) polish/wax. 
                        >
                        > If what you are currently using is not yielding good results, then it simply isn't aggressive enough.  Just about  any amount of oxidization requires that you actually remove a very thin top layer of the (oxidized and compromised) gelcoat.  
                        >
                        > If you have moderate oxidization, don't hesitate to first use a rubbing compound with a machine.  Yes, the extra step takes time, but the buffing/polishing  machine at least does a lot of the work for you. If you have heavier oxidization, and really want to restore the shine, etc. of the gelcoat, don't be afraid of wet sanding.  It does take time and effort, but the results are worth it if you want to bring back the shiny gelcoat look.   And wet sanding is not rocket science.  It can sound a bit scary, but simply using the right grit wet/dry paper and a few simple tips make it much easier than it sounds.    
                        >
                        > I found some really good "how-to" articles with specific useful tips I can send you if you like.  
                        >      
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: taylorbj28 <taylorbj28@...>
                        > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:02 PM
                        > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: Questions for the group
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        > John,
                        >
                        > I have been trying to buff out gelcoat oxidation with a buffer and Rule Restorer and Wax. Not sure how it will last. Did you wet sand,then use rubbing compound, then polish?? I am trying to do it in one step. Advise?
                        >
                        > I also am thinking of repairing some wet balsa around my port chainplate (10" square)from underneath so as not to damage the deck from the top. I would love to hear how this is going for you!
                        >
                        > Thank you,
                        > Brad Taylor
                        >
                        > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > BTW - I just posted pictures of my boat (Hull #25 - rechristened "Akula"). Her factory gelcoat color is medium grey (with red gelcoat boot and cove stripes). The hull was heavily oxidized when I bought the boat, and I just spent days wet sanding, compounding and polishing the gelcoat. I learned a lot in the process, so if anyone has this type of project coming up, I might have some helpful tips.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > John,
                        > > > Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hello all
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
                        > > > > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
                        > > > > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
                        > > > >
                        > > > > JP
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Hans Andersen
                        Hi All Question: : Does the chain plates bolts go thru solid fibreglass on the bulkhead? I also have issue with some moisture around the deck around the change
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jun 4, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi All
                          Question: : Does the chain plates bolts go thru solid fibreglass on the bulkhead?
                          I also have issue with some moisture around the deck around the change plates
                          I don't want to loose the mast
                          Hans
                          J28 Last Dance.
                          ---- Original Message ----
                          From: sailingmaster <sailingmaster@...>
                          To: J28Sailors <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 7:14 pm
                          Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Questions for the group

                           
                          I am presently re-coring the area around my chainplates.  I suspect that ALL of the boats have this issue to one degree or another.
                          You can probably live with it for a while. I plan on keeping the boat for a good length of time and wanted to prevent it from getting any worse.

                          I got a lot of help from David Hastings. If you email me directly, I will send you the advice he gave me. Its rather long to post here, but very helpful. He was very kind to take the time to walk me thru it.
                          my direct email is sailingmaster@...

                          When I bought the boat, my surveyor said there was moisture at the chainplates and the tracks.  I am happy to say the area around the tracks is dry as far as I can tell. They are removed and I have drill afew extra inspection holes and
                          find just dry balsa.
                           
                          Around my chain plates was another story. T he core around the chainplates was completely soaked about 1 foot forward and aft rand inboard to the cabin side.  There was a lot of rot in the area immediately at the chainplate.
                          At first, I tried the short cut method of drilling holes in the deck, drying and re epoxying (see Don Casey et al)  DO NOT DO THIS!  The area will not dry and you will probably find more rot than you think is there. You will assuredly find wet core.  Due to my haste, I am going to end up with a visible painted section in my deck. 

                          After my mistake, I decided to go in underneath.  I cut away a section of the headliner aft of the bulkhead on both side (chain plates already removed) and then I opened up a section of glass to expose the core, this let me see what was really going on inside the deck. I removed a lot of wet core and found still good but wet core that I was able to dry with a fan and space heater.

                          Next, on the starboard side, I removed the hanging locker and repeated the same process on the forward side of the bulkhead. This was not too difficult, but a royal pain in the ass just figuring how to get it detached!!  I am about to do the same to port, but I cannot seem to get the cabinet out, even after removing all the fasteners.  I may work thru the cabinet door though..luckily on my boat the moisture/rot was much worse on the stbd side and I suspect there is very litte to remove to port.

                          I would recommend investing in a FEIN MULT-TOOL l to do the cutting and removal of the glass/balsa. It is much better than the copies and does the job NEATLY and quickly with little mess and not blowing dust all over the cabin.

                          Next I am going to epoxy new balsa in place.  There are two schools of thought on this. One is pressing a large section of balsa back in and bracing to hold it in place. the other is to put it in in smaller pieces, wetting out, 
                          then coating the balsa in thickened (to peanut butter consistency)and simply working a small section at a time. Then fill any gaps with thickened epoxy, sand and cover with new glass. I am going to use the second method based on David Recommendation and the fact that it is not a structural area that needs a lot of strength. 

                          When cutting out the glass, I am told that you can be carefu land save the original cut out out piece and re lamintate it when the job is done.........good luck with that!  The glass around the rot came out easily, but ther rest was still solidly bonded to the wet balsa and was a royal pain to separate, In the end, i found it  easier to section out in smaller areas, cleaning as you go with a shop vac)

                          There are several epoxies you can use. West is the best known, but its very brittle once hardened.  You can use West GFlex, w hich stays a little more pliable and will work if there is a littel moisture still there.
                          I also checked out Smiths and MAS.  I ended up with the MAS based on recommendations from some boat builders at a local show (they were the ones that explained the differences to me.)

                          I am going to use Smith's CPES to seal the wood around the holes for the genoa tracks and then re-bed with 3M 4000. Many use 4200, but it will not bond with both METAL and FG.  Again, another save but the 
                          boat builder guys.

                          I am going to start taking some photos, and will post soon on the yahoo page

                          Let me know if I can help you further. I was going to try to buff  out my gel coat this year, but due to this project there will not be enough time before I launch late april. I would like to know what your find out for next season

                          JP


                          On Mar 24, 2013, at 6:02 PM, taylorbj28 wrote:

                           
                          John,

                          I have been trying to buff out gelcoat oxidation with a buffer and Rule Restorer and Wax. Not sure how it will last. Did you wet sand,then use rubbing compound, then polish?? I am trying to do it in one step. Advise?

                          I also am thinking of repairing some wet balsa around my port chainplate (10" square)from underneath so as not to damage the deck from the top. I would love to hear how this is going for you!

                          Thank you,
                          Brad Taylor

                          --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > BTW - I just posted pictures of my boat (Hull #25 - rechristened "Akula"). Her factory gelcoat color is medium grey (with red gelcoat boot and cove st ripes). The hull was heavily oxidized when I bought the boat, and I just spent days wet sanding, compounding and polishing the gelcoat. I learned a lot in the process, so if anyone has this type of project coming up, I might have some helpful tips.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > John,
                          > > Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.
                          > >
                          > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hello all
                          > > >
                          > > > ; Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
                          > > >
                          > > > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
                          > > > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
                          > > >
                          > > > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
                          > > > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
                          > > >
                          > > > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
                          > > >
                          > > > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
                          > > >
                          > > > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
                          > > >
                          > > > JP
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >


                        • David Hastings
                          Yes. Your chainplates are bolted thru the solid glass so moisture in the deck area doesn t actually weaken the system. But, if not remedied, sooner or later
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jun 4, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Yes. Your chainplates are bolted thru the solid glass so moisture in the deck area doesn't actually weaken the system. But, if not remedied, sooner or later that leakage makes a real mess of the deck.  As soon as I return to my boat, about June 21, I'll take and post photos of my chainplate islands. They totally solve any leaking issues but the deck needs to be repaired and solid before considering such a remedy.

                            Sent from my iPad

                            David L. Hastings
                            5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                            Crystal River, FL 34429
                            Home: 352-794-6440
                            Cell: 315-345-2078

                            On Jun 4, 2013, at 9:27 AM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@...> wrote:

                             

                            Hi All
                            Question: : Does the chain plates bolts go thru solid fibreglass on the bulkhead?
                            I also have issue with some moisture around the deck around the change plates
                            I don't want to loose the mast
                            Hans
                            J28 Last Dance.
                            ---- Original Message ----
                            From: sailingmaster <sailingmaster@...>
                            To: J28Sailors <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 7:14 pm
                            Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Questions for the group

                             
                            I am presently re-coring the area around my chainplates.  I suspect that ALL of the boats have this issue to one degree or another.
                            You can probably live with it for a while. I plan on keeping the boat for a good length of time and wanted to prevent it from getting any worse.

                            I got a lot of help from David Hastings. If you email me directly, I will send you the advice he gave me. Its rather long to post here, but very helpful. He was very kind to take the time to walk me thru it.
                            my direct email is sailingmaster@...

                            When I bought the boat, my surveyor said there was moisture at the chainplates and the tracks.  I am happy to say the area around the tracks is dry as far as I can tell. They are removed and I have drill afew extra inspection holes and
                            find just dry balsa.
                             
                            Around my chain plates was another story. T he core around the chainplates was completely soaked about 1 foot forward and aft rand inboard to the cabin side.  There was a lot of rot in the area immediately at the chainplate.
                            At first, I tried the short cut method of drilling holes in the deck, drying and re epoxying (see Don Casey et al)  DO NOT DO THIS!  The area will not dry and you will probably find more rot than you think is there. You will assuredly find wet core.  Due to my haste, I am going to end up with a visible painted section in my deck. 

                            After my mistake, I decided to go in underneath.  I cut away a section of the headliner aft of the bulkhead on both side (chain plates already removed) and then I opened up a section of glass to expose the core, this let me see what was really going on inside the deck. I removed a lot of wet core and found still good but wet core that I was able to dry with a fan and space heater.

                            Next, on the starboard side, I removed the hanging locker and repeated the same process on the forward side of the bulkhead. This was not too difficult, but a royal pain in the ass just figuring how to get it detached!!  I am about to do the same to port, but I cannot seem to get the cabinet out, even after removing all the fasteners.  I may work thru the cabinet door though..luckily on my boat the moisture/rot was much worse on the stbd side and I suspect there is very litte to remove to port.

                            I would recommend investing in a FEIN MULT-TOOL l to do the cutting and removal of the glass/balsa. It is much better than the copies and does the job NEATLY and quickly with little mess and not blowing dust all over the cabin.

                            Next I am going to epoxy new balsa in place.  There are two schools of thought on this. One is pressing a large section of balsa back in and bracing to hold it in place. the other is to put it in in smaller pieces, wetting out, 
                            then coating the balsa in thickened (to peanut butter consistency)and simply working a small section at a time. Then fill any gaps with thickened epoxy, sand and cover with new glass. I am going to use the second method based on David Recommendation and the fact that it is not a structural area that needs a lot of strength. 

                            When cutting out the glass, I am told that you can be carefu land save the original cut out out piece and re lamintate it when the job is done.........good luck with that!  The glass around the rot came out easily, but ther rest was still solidly bonded to the wet balsa and was a royal pain to separate, In the end, i found it  easier to section out in smaller areas, cleaning as you go with a shop vac)

                            There are several epoxies you can use. West is the best known, but its very brittle once hardened.  You can use West GFlex, w hich stays a little more pliable and will work if there is a littel moisture still there.
                            I also checked out Smiths and MAS.  I ended up with the MAS based on recommendations from some boat builders at a local show (they were the ones that explained the differences to me.)

                            I am going to use Smith's CPES to seal the wood around the holes for the genoa tracks and then re-bed with 3M 4000. Many use 4200, but it will not bond with both METAL and FG.  Again, another save but the 
                            boat builder guys.

                            I am going to start taking some photos, and will post soon on the yahoo page

                            Let me know if I can help you further. I was going to try to buff  out my gel coat this year, but due to this project there will not be enough time before I launch late april. I would like to know what your find out for next season

                            JP


                            On Mar 24, 2013, at 6:02 PM, taylorbj28 wrote:

                             
                            John,

                            I have been trying to buff out gelcoat oxidation with a buffer and Rule Restorer and Wax. Not sure how it will last. Did you wet sand,then use rubbing compound, then polish?? I am trying to do it in one step. Advise?

                            I also am thinking of repairing some wet balsa around my port chainplate (10" square)from underneath so as not to damage the deck from the top. I would love to hear how this is going for you!

                            Thank you,
                            Brad Taylor

                            --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > BTW - I just posted pictures of my boat (Hull #25 - rechristened "Akula"). Her factory gelcoat color is medium grey (with red gelcoat boot and cove st ripes). The hull was heavily oxidized when I bought the boat, and I just spent days wet sanding, compounding and polishing the gelcoat. I learned a lot in the process, so if anyone has this type of project coming up, I might have some helpful tips.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > John,
                            > > Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.
                            > >
                            > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hello all
                            > > >
                            > > > ; Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
                            > > >
                            > > > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
                            > > > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
                            > > >
                            > > > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
                            > > > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
                            > > >
                            > > > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
                            > > >
                            > > > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
                            > > >
                            > > > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
                            > > >
                            > > > JP
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >




                            ____________________________________________________________
                            Ugly Truth About Fish Oil
                            Simple test shows if your fish oil delivers or is wasting your money.
                            RealDose.com
                          • Jason Smith
                            Yes. But make sure to address the leaking deck penetration or you risk deck delamination.
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jun 4, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Yes.  But make sure to address the leaking deck penetration or you risk deck delamination.

                              On Tuesday, June 4, 2013, Hans Andersen wrote:
                               

                              Hi All
                              Question: : Does the chain plates bolts go thru solid fibreglass on the bulkhead?
                              I also have issue with some moisture around the deck around the change plates
                              I don't want to loose the mast
                              Hans
                              J28 Last Dance.
                              ---- Original Message ----
                              From: sailingmaster <sailingmaster@...>
                              To: J28Sailors <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 7:14 pm
                              Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Questions for the group

                               
                              I am presently re-coring the area around my chainplates.  I suspect that ALL of the boats have this issue to one degree or another.
                              You can probably live with it for a while. I plan on keeping the boat for a good length of time and wanted to prevent it from getting any worse.

                              I got a lot of help from David Hastings. If you email me directly, I will send you the advice he gave me. Its rather long to post here, but very helpful. He was very kind to take the time to walk me thru it.
                              my direct email is sailingmaster@...

                              When I bought the boat, my surveyor said there was moisture at the chainplates and the tracks.  I am happy to say the area around the tracks is dry as far as I can tell. They are removed and I have drill afew extra inspection holes and
                              find just dry balsa.
                               
                              Around my chain plates was another story. T he core around the chainplates was completely soaked about 1 foot forward and aft rand inboard to the cabin side.  There was a lot of rot in the area immediately at the chainplate.
                              At first, I tried the short cut method of drilling holes in the deck, drying and re epoxying (see Don Casey et al)  DO NOT DO THIS!  The area will not dry and you will probably find more rot than you think is there. You will assuredly find wet core.  Due to my haste, I am going to end up with a visible painted section in my deck. 

                              After my mistake, I decided to go in underneath.  I cut away a section of the headliner aft of the bulkhead on both side (chain plates already removed) and then I opened up a section of glass to expose the core, this let me see what was really going on inside the deck. I removed a lot of wet core and found still good but wet core that I was able to dry with a fan and space heater.

                              Next, on the starboard side, I removed the hanging locker and repeated the same process on the forward side of the bulkhead. This was not too difficult, but a royal pain in the ass just figuring how to get it detached!!  I am about to do the same to port, but I cannot seem to get the cabinet out, even after removing all the fasteners.  I may work thru the cabinet door though..luckily on my boat the moisture/rot was much worse on the stbd side and I suspect there is very litte to remove to port.

                              I would recommend investing in a FEIN MULT-TOOL l to do the cutting and removal of the glass/balsa. It is much better than the copies and does the job NEATLY and quickly with little mess and not blowing dust all over the cabin.

                              Next I am going to epoxy new balsa in place.  There are two schools of thought on this. One is pressing a large section of balsa back in and bracing to hold it in place. the other is to put it in in smaller pieces, wetting out, 
                              then coating the balsa in thickened (to peanut butter consistency)and simply working a small section at a time. Then fill any gaps with thickened epoxy, sand and cover with new glass. I am going to use the second method based on David Recommendation and the fact that it is not a structural area that needs a lot of strength. 

                              When cutting out the glass, I am told that you can be carefu land save the original cut out out piece and re lamintate it when the job is done.........good luck with that!  The glass around the rot came out easily, but ther rest was still solidly bonded to the wet balsa and was a royal pain to separate, In the end, i found it  easier to section out in smaller areas, cleaning as you go with a shop vac)

                              There are several epoxies you can use. West is the best known, but its very brittle once hardened.  You can use West GFlex, w hich stays a little more pliable and will work if there is a littel moisture still there.
                              I also checked out Smiths and MAS.  I ended up with the MAS based on recommendations from some boat builders at a local show (they were the ones that explained the differences to me.)

                              I am going to use Smith's CPES to seal the wood around the holes for the genoa tracks and then re-bed with 3M 4000. Many use 4200, but it will not bond with both METAL and FG.  Again, another save but the 
                              boat builder guys.

                              I am going to start taking some photos, and will post soon on the yahoo page

                              Let me know if I can help you further. I was going to try to buff  out my gel coat this year, but due to this project there will not be enough time before I launch late april. I would like to know what your find out for next season

                              JP


                              On Mar 24, 2013, at 6:02 PM, taylorbj28 wrote:

                               
                              John,

                              I have been trying to buff out gelcoat oxidation with a buffer and Rule Restorer and Wax. Not sure how it will last. Did you wet sand,then use rubbing compound, then polish?? I am trying to do it in one step. Advise?

                              I also am thinking of repairing some wet balsa around my port chainplate (10" square)from underneath so as not to damage the deck from the top. I would love to hear how this is going for you!

                              Thank you,
                              Brad Taylor

                              --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > BTW - I just posted pictures of my boat (Hull #25 - rechristened "Akula"). Her factory gelcoat color is medium grey (with red gelcoat boot and cove st ripes). The hull was heavily oxidized when I bought the boat, and I just spent days wet sanding, compounding and polishing the gelcoat. I learned a lot in the process, so if anyone has this type of project coming up, I might have some helpful tips.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > John,
                              > > Can't help with the first two questions, but on the third: you might think about trying a heat gun and sharp scraper. I have read if you are careful with the heat gun (not to burn the wood), this can be good way to remove the old finish. I am going to try it on my exterior teak.
                              > >
                              > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hello all
                              > > >
                              > > > ; Anxiously awaiting spring here and in full speed mode to make some repairs and get the boat cleaned up for launch in mid april... assuming it will stop snowing in CT at somepoint.
                              > > >
                              > > > First question, has anyone here done any re-core of their decks, specifically at the chainplate.
                              > > > My sureveyor thought my decks were showing moisture from the chainplates to the cockpit.
                              > > >
                              > > > Bad news is a lot of SOAKED rotted core, around the stb chainplate and a litte on the port side
                              > > > but the rest of the deck is bone dry. I have the hanging locker out and am GOING IN, from underneath. Does anyone know what thickness the balsa to use? and tips or advice for refinishing the ceiling after this is done? The repair is going much quicker and easier than I thought...just trying to gather as much info from anyone that has done this. David Hastings did this repair on his boat and has a lot of good ideas i can forward if anyone else is "in the same boat" as me :)
                              > > >
                              > > > Second question, Any good advice re removing old 4200 from the fasteners and deck before I re bed the the hardware?
                              > > >
                              > > > Third question. The preovious owners used Cetol on the wood work, I have to admit that for the past two years I have not had time to keep it up so its time to strip off and start over. I hate the chem strippers to begin with and since the deck is opened up and drying the use of water etc is out of the question at the moment....any thoughts
                              > > >
                              > > > Thinks spring....some day ill get a new genoa!
                              > > >
                              > > > JP
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >


                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.