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Re: [J28Sailors] Re: looking for j28 for sale

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  • john power
    I am not sure this is a problem of all J28, but it seems common to a lot of boats this age, based on what I have been told by other TPI owners and some GOOD
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 3, 2011
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      I am not sure this is a problem of all J28, but it seems common to a lot of boats this age, based on what I have been told by other TPI owners and some GOOD fibeglass guys at boat yards.

      If you look back thru the posts on the J28 site, you will see that the previous owners of my boat had water in the rudder, and had it fixed.  I had my surveyor check things and he said the rudder was solid, but enough moisture got in over last winter to case a very small split at the bottom of my rudder.  I have posted this to the site and some owners suspect the water may come from the opening at the top of the shaft. I think this might be true as there seemed to be constant moisture under the inspection port last summer...whether due to condensation or rain, I am not sure.  The solution on boat of this age is to drill the hole each fall and allow water to exit before it freezes

      Also as far as I can find out, the rudder on the 28 is all glass. there seems to be no metal post inside to corrode.

      In terms of the rudder bearing.  I think they last quite a long time. Now that the rudder is out of my boat, it looks really simple.  When I go down to the boat this weekend I will take some pics and post them to the J28 page or send them to you.  The lower bearings to wear over time.  The assembly is two stanless collars around the glass rudder head that rotate inside two plastic (delrin/nylon) sleeves.

      The previous owners of my boat had the rudder bearing replaced and had some issues. They like I never had a boat with wheel before so I think both of us had no comparison.  They had to have the rudder bearing redone as it was so stiff after it was replaced that the steering cable snapped.  I suspect the problem was not the bearing at the time, as on my delivery down here from Marblehead last spring we broke the transmission cable.  Once we had the pedestal apart it was clear that none of the gear inside (tranismission, throttle, brake steering was lead cleanly below decks and there was a LOT of friction.  If you have to take this apart, have a lot of patience!  There is a ton of stuff going on in a very tight space.)  That being said, my bearing is still tight, but the yard can now see the high spots, and it is so far an easy fix with a file.

      I luckily have a good yard.It took them 2 hrs to drop my rudder and that included digging hole under the boat to provide clearance. I have heard horror stories about the cost of doing this, but now that I see it apart, most of the job can be done pretty simply.  Aligning the bearings is the part where you need someone with some skill.

      Again  lot to go into here, feel free to hit me up on my email and or Ill give you my cell and we can discuss.  I want to compare and gather as much infor as ican on my future projects. I really love this boat and plan on keeping here a good long time

      JP


      On Nov 3, 2011, at 10:07 AM, wjmfoster wrote:

       

      JP,

      Thanks, i'll get back to you via personal email, but you have sparked my interest with your comments about the rudder.

      For one, how is your rudder bearing? i have noticed my lower bearing has about 1/4" total slop from side to side so i am not too worried yet, but its going on the list of things to address down the road, as i understand this is a failing on the J28.

      I also noticed when looking in the inspection port above the rudder post it is hollow, fiberglass tube and i could see some water isnide the tube. i was not yet sure what to do about this, but for one figured water inside the tube where the boat had been out of the water for 2 years was not good, but also good. ie: it had not drained out indicating it was/is watertight?

      you drill a hole in your rudder to drain it, when you did this how much came out? where exactly did you drill it? the post does not run down all the way to the bottom of the blade as best i can tell. is there a reported issue with water freezing indise the rudder post and then cracking the post? very curious and somewhat worrying. i might try pumping this water out with a hand pump and long hose and seeing how far down the holow shaft goes tongiht and loooking into this more.

      I'm very interested to hear what you have found.

      Bill

      --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
      >
      > I would love to discuss these issues before I get started on the
      > project.
      >
      > I live in Enfield, CT and keep my boat in BLACK ROCK (near Brdgeport)
      > I lived aboard all last summer, as I run a large junior sailing
      > program on the western end of the sound.
      > After this year I will be looking for summer jobs (I am a teacher) in
      > E CT, RI or up in MA BAY so I can move the boat bak there were the
      > sailing is better. The boat is very comfortable both sailing and in
      > terms of sleeping?living aboard, IM 6.3 and had no issues.
      >
      > Originally I had planned to bring my boat to my house for the winter
      > so I could use a dehumidifier and heat. I ended up with some rudder
      > bearing issues this winter so my boat is in the yard in Black Rock.
      >
      > I plan on opening the deck and applying heat/hot air and relying on
      > the dry winter conditions (I have an awesome Fairclough winter cover
      > so things stay really dry on deck and there is some actual solar
      > heating on warm days.
      > I am also thinking of using Silica Gel to help wick addtional
      > moisture. The CPES will displace some moisture, but you need to get
      > things as dry as possible first.
      > Honestly, I think ALL of these boats have this problem to one degree
      > or another, owners are just unaware or unconcerned. The moisture
      > meters are only relative numbers and are not the final word, unless
      > you acually use the type that you drill into the boat and insert the
      > meter.
      >
      > One thing to check before winter is your rudder. The top of the rudder
      > is open and the boats can get water inside. Drill a small hole at the
      > bottom to let any water drain out. I did not due this....and now have
      > 200lbs of fiberglass in my basement lol
      >
      > MY boat does not have the folding prop, it was replaced with a large 3
      > blad fixed prop. It is way too big for the tiny 2GM and I max out at
      > 2500 rpms. Any more and I blow black smoke. The boat will do 6.5 knts
      > this ways and the GPS has indicated 7-8 over the bottom in a good
      > breeze with the kite up _ i am estimating the max true hull speed is
      > 6.5kts. Pretty good for a 24' waterline and 8000lbs. I plan on
      > replacing the prop this year and am looking for information regarding
      > size and manufacturer The Martec runs about 700 and a GORI is 1100.
      > Not sure if it is that much better. One thing about the 3 blade prop
      > is the boat is really easy and predictable when backing. The Yanmar
      > ran unbelieivably well last summer. Tough to start in the cold weather
      > but just crrank it a little longer and give here a bit of fuel.
      >
      > If you want to chat real time and or compare boats you can reach me at
      > my home email thistle4002@... or sailingmaster@...
      >
      > I also posted some pics of my boat on the J28 page if you are curious
      >
      > JP
      > On Nov 3, 2011, at 9:35 AM, wjmfoster wrote:
      >
      > > JP,
      > >
      > > I bought the boat in question and had a pretty good survey
      > > conducted, indicating the spots Roy talked about. i sailed the boat
      > > back to CT a few weeks ago and have hauled her and plan to have her
      > > covered this winter in order to address the deck issues. the amount
      > > of moisture while more than i'd like of course does not appear to be
      > > extreme and no delamination was detected.
      > >
      > > It's going to be a big project to address the decks this winter so i
      > > am very much interested to hear what you will be doing and i would
      > > love to know what products you will be using. Since i've been doing
      > > research one thing i think i will do is re-bed with butyl tape for
      > > all deck hardware as the more i have read about this the better it
      > > seems to be than the usual round of adhesives.How are you planning
      > > to dry out the core in your deck, i hear mixed reviews on the
      > > success of acheiving a truly dry core? my thought is to remove the
      > > hardware and tape the holes off above decks to prevent further
      > > ingress and then use a dehumidifier inside the boat as often as
      > > possible with some heat as well to extract moisture as best i can.
      > > then to stabilize the core with thin resin, a method such as you
      > > suggest with CPES and then to ensure i have solid epoxy in way of
      > > the holes and then re-drill and re-mount with the butyl tape.
      > >
      > > Does your boat have the Martec 16x14 prop? how does your 2GM do for
      > > rpm? can you get it up to 3400 or do you max out at more like
      > > 2800-3000? I cruised her at 2000 this fall making 5.9 knots in flat
      > > water.
      > >
      > > Also, have you had any reason to look into the prop shaft strut
      > > connection to your hull? do you see what appears to be moisture
      > > under the paint after you haul out? any idea if this area is solid
      > > glass as it ought to be or is this area cored as well, any input
      > > from others welcome on this. I am not overly concerned at this point
      > > but id like to get a jump on anything others know to be suspect.
      > >
      > > I am also in CT in the mystic area, will be keeping the boat down in
      > > Noank in the summers, up here at Fort Rachel in mystic for this
      > > winter. We have only sailed the boat once, deliverying it to mystic
      > > and love it. she sails very well and with the relatively modern
      > > layout below has made my wife very happy to be onboard.
      > >
      > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > When I was looking for a boat, I could not even get an appointment
      > > to
      > > > see this one.
      > > >
      > > > Evidently, the guy that owned it was in the middle of a divorce and
      > > > really did not want to sell it. Evidently it has been sitting on the
      > > > hard uncovered for quite some time.
      > > > I never saw the boat, but a broker friend had made inquiries and I
      > > > talked to others on the J28 site about here. I had heard the same as
      > > > ROY posted.
      > > > The decks were wet and the boat desparatley needs a bottom job. It
      > > > seems the price has come down a bit.
      > > >
      > > > It would be worth a look with good surveyor and a moisture meter.
      > > > My boat has some moisture in the decks, buts it has been detected
      > > > early. There is no rot or delamination so I Sailed the boat this
      > > year
      > > > and am in the process of removining the chain plates and tracks to
      > > dry
      > > > out and seal the core.
      > > > If you decide this boat is worth the effort you should check out a
      > > > product called CPES(available thru jamestown or google rot doctor)
      > > > Looks like a good way to deal with boat with a cored deck so long as
      > > > you get to the moisture before it becomes a big project.
      > > >
      > > > Where do you plan on keeping your 28? I am on long island sound and
      > > > would like to see some other boats and meet/ bounce ideas with other
      > > > owners. This is my first big boat after sailing dinghies and racing
      > > > for 25 years.
      > > > Still adjusting to the cost of winter storage and marina fees! lol
      > > >
      > > > You will love the 28. I have sailed small high performance boats my
      > > > whole life and unlike most cruisers in this size and price range,
      > > > nothing I have looked at sails as nicely as this boat.
      > > > I wish there was more storage down below. the Cockpit lockers are
      > > > huge, but hte boat is a bit ass heavy, so the only drawback I see to
      > > > the boat so far is this. If you are not that concerned with
      > > > perfromance you can easily store the dinghy barbecue, a few small
      > > > children and a dead mother in law! lol
      > > >
      > > > I had talked to a fellow on here about a boat in Maryland. I got a
      > > > nice boat up in Salem MA, but in retrospect, I wish I had looked at
      > > > this one also for comparison
      > > > I think the boat is #52 and the owner is Engle. He seemed like a
      > > > really nice guy and is looking for a home for the boat as he does
      > > not
      > > > have much time to sail it. IM not sure if it has been sold but its
      > > > worth an email
      > > >
      > > > Sorry for the delay but have been with out power in CT for 6 days!
      > > >
      > > > JP
      > > > On Nov 1, 2011, at 10:27 PM, wjmfoster wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > JP,
      > > > >
      > > > > What issues does the Barrington boat have that you know about? How
      > > > > do you think the boats for sale now on the makret compare? I
      > > admire
      > > > > the J 28 and would appreciate your opinion.
      > > > >
      > > > > Bill
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <thistle4002@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I see some boats for sale in New England.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I hear the Barrinton boat has some issues. The others have been
      > > > > for sale for quite some time and seem overpriced. I am a small
      > > boat
      > > > > sailor (thistles, lightnings, j24s etc) moving into the cruising
      > > > > world. I would appreciate any information advice possible as I
      > > dont
      > > > > want to buy someone elses headache. I have a lot to learn about
      > > big
      > > > > boats, and since I am a teacher, need to work on a realistic
      > > budget.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I like the J28 as its seems small enough to sail alone, but big
      > > > > enough to take a few people over night. I will also live aboard
      > > for
      > > > > a few nites per week in the summer while working my sailing job
      > > on LIS
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Thanks to any and all that can provide advice on this boat and
      > > > > locating any that might be for sale.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > JP.
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      >


    • Kurt
      Hi Bill, I response to your earlier question about moisture at the strut and if there is any core there... There isn t any core for approx 6 on either side
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 3, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Bill,

        I response to your earlier question about moisture at the strut and if there is any core there... There isn't any core for approx 6" on either side of the centerline. I found this out when I put in new speed and depth transducers.

        In my opinion pumping the water out of the rudder stock with a long hose and hand pump is the way to go. I remember the first year I was laying up my J-28 for the winter and discovering the water inside the rudder. I had a moment of dread until I pumped it out and realized (by sticking my finger in it and tasting it) that it was fresh water. It turns out (in my case at least) the water I have to pump out each year is just condensation that pools in the rudder stock and not salt water finding its way in. Hopefully yours is the same.

        Kurt
        Hull #71

        --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@...> wrote:
        >
        > JP,
        >
        > Thanks, i'll get back to you via personal email, but you have sparked my interest with your comments about the rudder.
        >
        > For one, how is your rudder bearing? i have noticed my lower bearing has about 1/4" total slop from side to side so i am not too worried yet, but its going on the list of things to address down the road, as i understand this is a failing on the J28.
        >
        > I also noticed when looking in the inspection port above the rudder post it is hollow, fiberglass tube and i could see some water isnide the tube. i was not yet sure what to do about this, but for one figured water inside the tube where the boat had been out of the water for 2 years was not good, but also good. ie: it had not drained out indicating it was/is watertight?
        >
        > you drill a hole in your rudder to drain it, when you did this how much came out? where exactly did you drill it? the post does not run down all the way to the bottom of the blade as best i can tell. is there a reported issue with water freezing indise the rudder post and then cracking the post? very curious and somewhat worrying. i might try pumping this water out with a hand pump and long hose and seeing how far down the holow shaft goes tongiht and loooking into this more.
        >
        > I'm very interested to hear what you have found.
        >
        > Bill
        >
        >
        > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I would love to discuss these issues before I get started on the
        > > project.
        > >
        > > I live in Enfield, CT and keep my boat in BLACK ROCK (near Brdgeport)
        > > I lived aboard all last summer, as I run a large junior sailing
        > > program on the western end of the sound.
        > > After this year I will be looking for summer jobs (I am a teacher) in
        > > E CT, RI or up in MA BAY so I can move the boat bak there were the
        > > sailing is better. The boat is very comfortable both sailing and in
        > > terms of sleeping?living aboard, IM 6.3 and had no issues.
        > >
        > > Originally I had planned to bring my boat to my house for the winter
        > > so I could use a dehumidifier and heat. I ended up with some rudder
        > > bearing issues this winter so my boat is in the yard in Black Rock.
        > >
        > > I plan on opening the deck and applying heat/hot air and relying on
        > > the dry winter conditions (I have an awesome Fairclough winter cover
        > > so things stay really dry on deck and there is some actual solar
        > > heating on warm days.
        > > I am also thinking of using Silica Gel to help wick addtional
        > > moisture. The CPES will displace some moisture, but you need to get
        > > things as dry as possible first.
        > > Honestly, I think ALL of these boats have this problem to one degree
        > > or another, owners are just unaware or unconcerned. The moisture
        > > meters are only relative numbers and are not the final word, unless
        > > you acually use the type that you drill into the boat and insert the
        > > meter.
        > >
        > > One thing to check before winter is your rudder. The top of the rudder
        > > is open and the boats can get water inside. Drill a small hole at the
        > > bottom to let any water drain out. I did not due this....and now have
        > > 200lbs of fiberglass in my basement lol
        > >
        > > MY boat does not have the folding prop, it was replaced with a large 3
        > > blad fixed prop. It is way too big for the tiny 2GM and I max out at
        > > 2500 rpms. Any more and I blow black smoke. The boat will do 6.5 knts
        > > this ways and the GPS has indicated 7-8 over the bottom in a good
        > > breeze with the kite up _ i am estimating the max true hull speed is
        > > 6.5kts. Pretty good for a 24' waterline and 8000lbs. I plan on
        > > replacing the prop this year and am looking for information regarding
        > > size and manufacturer The Martec runs about 700 and a GORI is 1100.
        > > Not sure if it is that much better. One thing about the 3 blade prop
        > > is the boat is really easy and predictable when backing. The Yanmar
        > > ran unbelieivably well last summer. Tough to start in the cold weather
        > > but just crrank it a little longer and give here a bit of fuel.
        > >
        > > If you want to chat real time and or compare boats you can reach me at
        > > my home email thistle4002@ or sailingmaster@
        > >
        > > I also posted some pics of my boat on the J28 page if you are curious
        > >
        > > JP
        > > On Nov 3, 2011, at 9:35 AM, wjmfoster wrote:
        > >
        > > > JP,
        > > >
        > > > I bought the boat in question and had a pretty good survey
        > > > conducted, indicating the spots Roy talked about. i sailed the boat
        > > > back to CT a few weeks ago and have hauled her and plan to have her
        > > > covered this winter in order to address the deck issues. the amount
        > > > of moisture while more than i'd like of course does not appear to be
        > > > extreme and no delamination was detected.
        > > >
        > > > It's going to be a big project to address the decks this winter so i
        > > > am very much interested to hear what you will be doing and i would
        > > > love to know what products you will be using. Since i've been doing
        > > > research one thing i think i will do is re-bed with butyl tape for
        > > > all deck hardware as the more i have read about this the better it
        > > > seems to be than the usual round of adhesives.How are you planning
        > > > to dry out the core in your deck, i hear mixed reviews on the
        > > > success of acheiving a truly dry core? my thought is to remove the
        > > > hardware and tape the holes off above decks to prevent further
        > > > ingress and then use a dehumidifier inside the boat as often as
        > > > possible with some heat as well to extract moisture as best i can.
        > > > then to stabilize the core with thin resin, a method such as you
        > > > suggest with CPES and then to ensure i have solid epoxy in way of
        > > > the holes and then re-drill and re-mount with the butyl tape.
        > > >
        > > > Does your boat have the Martec 16x14 prop? how does your 2GM do for
        > > > rpm? can you get it up to 3400 or do you max out at more like
        > > > 2800-3000? I cruised her at 2000 this fall making 5.9 knots in flat
        > > > water.
        > > >
        > > > Also, have you had any reason to look into the prop shaft strut
        > > > connection to your hull? do you see what appears to be moisture
        > > > under the paint after you haul out? any idea if this area is solid
        > > > glass as it ought to be or is this area cored as well, any input
        > > > from others welcome on this. I am not overly concerned at this point
        > > > but id like to get a jump on anything others know to be suspect.
        > > >
        > > > I am also in CT in the mystic area, will be keeping the boat down in
        > > > Noank in the summers, up here at Fort Rachel in mystic for this
        > > > winter. We have only sailed the boat once, deliverying it to mystic
        > > > and love it. she sails very well and with the relatively modern
        > > > layout below has made my wife very happy to be onboard.
        > > >
        > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > When I was looking for a boat, I could not even get an appointment
        > > > to
        > > > > see this one.
        > > > >
        > > > > Evidently, the guy that owned it was in the middle of a divorce and
        > > > > really did not want to sell it. Evidently it has been sitting on the
        > > > > hard uncovered for quite some time.
        > > > > I never saw the boat, but a broker friend had made inquiries and I
        > > > > talked to others on the J28 site about here. I had heard the same as
        > > > > ROY posted.
        > > > > The decks were wet and the boat desparatley needs a bottom job. It
        > > > > seems the price has come down a bit.
        > > > >
        > > > > It would be worth a look with good surveyor and a moisture meter.
        > > > > My boat has some moisture in the decks, buts it has been detected
        > > > > early. There is no rot or delamination so I Sailed the boat this
        > > > year
        > > > > and am in the process of removining the chain plates and tracks to
        > > > dry
        > > > > out and seal the core.
        > > > > If you decide this boat is worth the effort you should check out a
        > > > > product called CPES(available thru jamestown or google rot doctor)
        > > > > Looks like a good way to deal with boat with a cored deck so long as
        > > > > you get to the moisture before it becomes a big project.
        > > > >
        > > > > Where do you plan on keeping your 28? I am on long island sound and
        > > > > would like to see some other boats and meet/ bounce ideas with other
        > > > > owners. This is my first big boat after sailing dinghies and racing
        > > > > for 25 years.
        > > > > Still adjusting to the cost of winter storage and marina fees! lol
        > > > >
        > > > > You will love the 28. I have sailed small high performance boats my
        > > > > whole life and unlike most cruisers in this size and price range,
        > > > > nothing I have looked at sails as nicely as this boat.
        > > > > I wish there was more storage down below. the Cockpit lockers are
        > > > > huge, but hte boat is a bit ass heavy, so the only drawback I see to
        > > > > the boat so far is this. If you are not that concerned with
        > > > > perfromance you can easily store the dinghy barbecue, a few small
        > > > > children and a dead mother in law! lol
        > > > >
        > > > > I had talked to a fellow on here about a boat in Maryland. I got a
        > > > > nice boat up in Salem MA, but in retrospect, I wish I had looked at
        > > > > this one also for comparison
        > > > > I think the boat is #52 and the owner is Engle. He seemed like a
        > > > > really nice guy and is looking for a home for the boat as he does
        > > > not
        > > > > have much time to sail it. IM not sure if it has been sold but its
        > > > > worth an email
        > > > >
        > > > > Sorry for the delay but have been with out power in CT for 6 days!
        > > > >
        > > > > JP
        > > > > On Nov 1, 2011, at 10:27 PM, wjmfoster wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > > JP,
        > > > > >
        > > > > > What issues does the Barrington boat have that you know about? How
        > > > > > do you think the boats for sale now on the makret compare? I
        > > > admire
        > > > > > the J 28 and would appreciate your opinion.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Bill
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <thistle4002@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I see some boats for sale in New England.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I hear the Barrinton boat has some issues. The others have been
        > > > > > for sale for quite some time and seem overpriced. I am a small
        > > > boat
        > > > > > sailor (thistles, lightnings, j24s etc) moving into the cruising
        > > > > > world. I would appreciate any information advice possible as I
        > > > dont
        > > > > > want to buy someone elses headache. I have a lot to learn about
        > > > big
        > > > > > boats, and since I am a teacher, need to work on a realistic
        > > > budget.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I like the J28 as its seems small enough to sail alone, but big
        > > > > > enough to take a few people over night. I will also live aboard
        > > > for
        > > > > > a few nites per week in the summer while working my sailing job
        > > > on LIS
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Thanks to any and all that can provide advice on this boat and
        > > > > > locating any that might be for sale.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > JP.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • john power
        I think I agree with Kurt...the rudder is REALLY solid...I have a good fiberglass guy that I trust,,,,his quote was bomb proof he is the one that said drill
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 3, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          I think I agree with Kurt...the rudder is REALLY solid...I have a good fiberglass guy that I trust,,,,his quote was 'bomb proof'  he is the one that said drill a hole each fall and dont worry.
          Several others have responded here as to water getting in from the top...

          I will post pics of the bearing set up as soon as I can.  I went out to my garage this morning and looked at the stainless collar in my lowere bearing. the plastic part is put inthe boat with screws and by the grooves on the SS I am sure one of the set screws is the source of my rudder bearing issue...food for thought. This system looks idiot proof and I am sure a lot of boat yards make money off of it.  It looks like the yard that did the work for the previous owners of my boat, really charged a lot and did not have much skill.  I think my problem will cost a few hundred and I will have learned a lot

          Jp
          On Nov 3, 2011, at 1:06 PM, Kurt wrote:

           



          Hi Bill,

          I response to your earlier question about moisture at the strut and if there is any core there... There isn't any core for approx 6" on either side of the centerline. I found this out when I put in new speed and depth transducers.

          In my opinion pumping the water out of the rudder stock with a long hose and hand pump is the way to go. I remember the first year I was laying up my J-28 for the winter and discovering the water inside the rudder. I had a moment of dread until I pumped it out and realized (by sticking my finger in it and tasting it) that it was fresh water. It turns out (in my case at least) the water I have to pump out each year is just condensation that pools in the rudder stock and not salt water finding its way in. Hopefully yours is the same.

          Kurt
          Hull #71

          --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@...> wrote:
          >
          > JP,
          >
          > Thanks, i'll get back to you via personal email, but you have sparked my interest with your comments about the rudder.
          >
          > For one, how is your rudder bearing? i have noticed my lower bearing has about 1/4" total slop from side to side so i am not too worried yet, but its going on the list of things to address down the road, as i understand this is a failing on the J28.
          >
          > I also noticed when looking in the inspection port above the rudder post it is hollow, fiberglass tube and i could see some water isnide the tube. i was not yet sure what to do about this, but for one figured water inside the tube where the boat had been out of the water for 2 years was not good, but also good. ie: it had not drained out indicating it was/is watertight?
          >
          > you drill a hole in your rudder to drain it, when you did this how much came out? where exactly did you drill it? the post does not run down all the way to the bottom of the blade as best i can tell. is there a reported issue with water freezing indise the rudder post and then cracking the post? very curious and somewhat worrying. i might try pumping this water out with a hand pump and long hose and seeing how far down the holow shaft goes tongiht and loooking into this more.
          >
          > I'm very interested to hear what you have found.
          >
          > Bill
          >
          >
          > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I would love to discuss these issues before I get started on the
          > > project.
          > >
          > > I live in Enfield, CT and keep my boat in BLACK ROCK (near Brdgeport)
          > > I lived aboard all last summer, as I run a large junior sailing
          > > program on the western end of the sound.
          > > After this year I will be looking for summer jobs (I am a teacher) in
          > > E CT, RI or up in MA BAY so I can move the boat bak there were the
          > > sailing is better. The boat is very comfortable both sailing and in
          > > terms of sleeping?living aboard, IM 6.3 and had no issues.
          > >
          > > Originally I had planned to bring my boat to my house for the winter
          > > so I could use a dehumidifier and heat. I ended up with some rudder
          > > bearing issues this winter so my boat is in the yard in Black Rock.
          > >
          > > I plan on opening the deck and applying heat/hot air and relying on
          > > the dry winter conditions (I have an awesome Fairclough winter cover
          > > so things stay really dry on deck and there is some actual solar
          > > heating on warm days.
          > > I am also thinking of using Silica Gel to help wick addtional
          > > moisture. The CPES will displace some moisture, but you need to get
          > > things as dry as possible first.
          > > Honestly, I think ALL of these boats have this problem to one degree
          > > or another, owners are just unaware or unconcerned. The moisture
          > > meters are only relative numbers and are not the final word, unless
          > > you acually use the type that you drill into the boat and insert the
          > > meter.
          > >
          > > One thing to check before winter is your rudder. The top of the rudder
          > > is open and the boats can get water inside. Drill a small hole at the
          > > bottom to let any water drain out. I did not due this....and now have
          > > 200lbs of fiberglass in my basement lol
          > >
          > > MY boat does not have the folding prop, it was replaced with a large 3
          > > blad fixed prop. It is way too big for the tiny 2GM and I max out at
          > > 2500 rpms. Any more and I blow black smoke. The boat will do 6.5 knts
          > > this ways and the GPS has indicated 7-8 over the bottom in a good
          > > breeze with the kite up _ i am estimating the max true hull speed is
          > > 6.5kts. Pretty good for a 24' waterline and 8000lbs. I plan on
          > > replacing the prop this year and am looking for information regarding
          > > size and manufacturer The Martec runs about 700 and a GORI is 1100.
          > > Not sure if it is that much better. One thing about the 3 blade prop
          > > is the boat is really easy and predictable when backing. The Yanmar
          > > ran unbelieivably well last summer. Tough to start in the cold weather
          > > but just crrank it a little longer and give here a bit of fuel.
          > >
          > > If you want to chat real time and or compare boats you can reach me at
          > > my home email thistle4002@ or sailingmaster@
          > >
          > > I also posted some pics of my boat on the J28 page if you are curious
          > >
          > > JP
          > > On Nov 3, 2011, at 9:35 AM, wjmfoster wrote:
          > >
          > > > JP,
          > > >
          > > > I bought the boat in question and had a pretty good survey
          > > > conducted, indicating the spots Roy talked about. i sailed the boat
          > > > back to CT a few weeks ago and have hauled her and plan to have her
          > > > covered this winter in order to address the deck issues. the amount
          > > > of moisture while more than i'd like of course does not appear to be
          > > > extreme and no delamination was detected.
          > > >
          > > > It's going to be a big project to address the decks this winter so i
          > > > am very much interested to hear what you will be doing and i would
          > > > love to know what products you will be using. Since i've been doing
          > > > research one thing i think i will do is re-bed with butyl tape for
          > > > all deck hardware as the more i have read about this the better it
          > > > seems to be than the usual round of adhesives.How are you planning
          > > > to dry out the core in your deck, i hear mixed reviews on the
          > > > success of acheiving a truly dry core? my thought is to remove the
          > > > hardware and tape the holes off above decks to prevent further
          > > > ingress and then use a dehumidifier inside the boat as often as
          > > > possible with some heat as well to extract moisture as best i can.
          > > > then to stabilize the core with thin resin, a method such as you
          > > > suggest with CPES and then to ensure i have solid epoxy in way of
          > > > the holes and then re-drill and re-mount with the butyl tape.
          > > >
          > > > Does your boat have the Martec 16x14 prop? how does your 2GM do for
          > > > rpm? can you get it up to 3400 or do you max out at more like
          > > > 2800-3000? I cruised her at 2000 this fall making 5.9 knots in flat
          > > > water.
          > > >
          > > > Also, have you had any reason to look into the prop shaft strut
          > > > connection to your hull? do you see what appears to be moisture
          > > > under the paint after you haul out? any idea if this area is solid
          > > > glass as it ought to be or is this area cored as well, any input
          > > > from others welcome on this. I am not overly concerned at this point
          > > > but id like to get a jump on anything others know to be suspect.
          > > >
          > > > I am also in CT in the mystic area, will be keeping the boat down in
          > > > Noank in the summers, up here at Fort Rachel in mystic for this
          > > > winter. We have only sailed the boat once, deliverying it to mystic
          > > > and love it. she sails very well and with the relatively modern
          > > > layout below has made my wife very happy to be onboard.
          > > >
          > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@>
          > > > wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > When I was looking for a boat, I could not even get an appointment
          > > > to
          > > > > see this one.
          > > > >
          > > > > Evidently, the guy that owned it was in the middle of a divorce and
          > > > > really did not want to sell it. Evidently it has been sitting on the
          > > > > hard uncovered for quite some time.
          > > > > I never saw the boat, but a broker friend had made inquiries and I
          > > > > talked to others on the J28 site about here. I had heard the same as
          > > > > ROY posted.
          > > > > The decks were wet and the boat desparatley needs a bottom job. It
          > > > > seems the price has come down a bit.
          > > > >
          > > > > It would be worth a look with good surveyor and a moisture meter.
          > > > > My boat has some moisture in the decks, buts it has been detected
          > > > > early. There is no rot or delamination so I Sailed the boat this
          > > > year
          > > > > and am in the process of removining the chain plates and tracks to
          > > > dry
          > > > > out and seal the core.
          > > > > If you decide this boat is worth the effort you should check out a
          > > > > product called CPES(available thru jamestown or google rot doctor)
          > > > > Looks like a good way to deal with boat with a cored deck so long as
          > > > > you get to the moisture before it becomes a big project.
          > > > >
          > > > > Where do you plan on keeping your 28? I am on long island sound and
          > > > > would like to see some other boats and meet/ bounce ideas with other
          > > > > owners. This is my first big boat after sailing dinghies and racing
          > > > > for 25 years.
          > > > > Still adjusting to the cost of winter storage and marina fees! lol
          > > > >
          > > > > You will love the 28. I have sailed small high performance boats my
          > > > > whole life and unlike most cruisers in this size and price range,
          > > > > nothing I have looked at sails as nicely as this boat.
          > > > > I wish there was more storage down below. the Cockpit lockers are
          > > > > huge, but hte boat is a bit ass heavy, so the only drawback I see to
          > > > > the boat so far is this. If you are not that concerned with
          > > > > perfromance you can easily store the dinghy barbecue, a few small
          > > > > children and a dead mother in law! lol
          > > > >
          > > > > I had talked to a fellow on here about a boat in Maryland. I got a
          > > > > nice boat up in Salem MA, but in retrospect, I wish I had looked at
          > > > > this one also for comparison
          > > > > I think the boat is #52 and the owner is Engle. He seemed like a
          > > > > really nice guy and is looking for a home for the boat as he does
          > > > not
          > > > > have much time to sail it. IM not sure if it has been sold but its
          > > > > worth an email
          > > > >
          > > > > Sorry for the delay but have been with out power in CT for 6 days!
          > > > >
          > > > > JP
          > > > > On Nov 1, 2011, at 10:27 PM, wjmfoster wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > > JP,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > What issues does the Barrington boat have that you know about? How
          > > > > > do you think the boats for sale now on the makret compare? I
          > > > admire
          > > > > > the J 28 and would appreciate your opinion.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Bill
          > > > > >
          > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <thistle4002@> wrote:
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > I see some boats for sale in New England.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > I hear the Barrinton boat has some issues. The others have been
          > > > > > for sale for quite some time and seem overpriced. I am a small
          > > > boat
          > > > > > sailor (thistles, lightnings, j24s etc) moving into the cruising
          > > > > > world. I would appreciate any information advice possible as I
          > > > dont
          > > > > > want to buy someone elses headache. I have a lot to learn about
          > > > big
          > > > > > boats, and since I am a teacher, need to work on a realistic
          > > > budget.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > I like the J28 as its seems small enough to sail alone, but big
          > > > > > enough to take a few people over night. I will also live aboard
          > > > for
          > > > > > a few nites per week in the summer while working my sailing job
          > > > on LIS
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Thanks to any and all that can provide advice on this boat and
          > > > > > locating any that might be for sale.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > JP.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >


        • wjmfoster
          Kurt, Thanks for the input, especially on the solid core along centerline. I will pump out the water from the rudder post and check its saltiness, fingers
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 4, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Kurt,

            Thanks for the input, especially on the solid core along centerline. I will pump out the water from the rudder post and check its saltiness, fingers crosse. I did try to drill a hole in the bottom of the blade last night. i drilled in up from under in the very bottom, maybe 2" and did not "break through" into foam. just solid glass from the difficulty and shavings. i guess maybe the thing to do is drill in the side at 6" up from the bottom but im not anxious to do that. I can only see moisture in the very trailing edge, bottom corner, maybe 2 square inches. i can also see a tiny hairline crack in this area along the bottom edge too. i think my approach will be to clip/sand the paint off in this area and investigate further.

            Regards,

            Bill

            --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt" <kbianculli@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi Bill,
            >
            > I response to your earlier question about moisture at the strut and if there is any core there... There isn't any core for approx 6" on either side of the centerline. I found this out when I put in new speed and depth transducers.
            >
            > In my opinion pumping the water out of the rudder stock with a long hose and hand pump is the way to go. I remember the first year I was laying up my J-28 for the winter and discovering the water inside the rudder. I had a moment of dread until I pumped it out and realized (by sticking my finger in it and tasting it) that it was fresh water. It turns out (in my case at least) the water I have to pump out each year is just condensation that pools in the rudder stock and not salt water finding its way in. Hopefully yours is the same.
            >
            > Kurt
            > Hull #71
            >
            > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
            > >
            > > JP,
            > >
            > > Thanks, i'll get back to you via personal email, but you have sparked my interest with your comments about the rudder.
            > >
            > > For one, how is your rudder bearing? i have noticed my lower bearing has about 1/4" total slop from side to side so i am not too worried yet, but its going on the list of things to address down the road, as i understand this is a failing on the J28.
            > >
            > > I also noticed when looking in the inspection port above the rudder post it is hollow, fiberglass tube and i could see some water isnide the tube. i was not yet sure what to do about this, but for one figured water inside the tube where the boat had been out of the water for 2 years was not good, but also good. ie: it had not drained out indicating it was/is watertight?
            > >
            > > you drill a hole in your rudder to drain it, when you did this how much came out? where exactly did you drill it? the post does not run down all the way to the bottom of the blade as best i can tell. is there a reported issue with water freezing indise the rudder post and then cracking the post? very curious and somewhat worrying. i might try pumping this water out with a hand pump and long hose and seeing how far down the holow shaft goes tongiht and loooking into this more.
            > >
            > > I'm very interested to hear what you have found.
            > >
            > > Bill
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I would love to discuss these issues before I get started on the
            > > > project.
            > > >
            > > > I live in Enfield, CT and keep my boat in BLACK ROCK (near Brdgeport)
            > > > I lived aboard all last summer, as I run a large junior sailing
            > > > program on the western end of the sound.
            > > > After this year I will be looking for summer jobs (I am a teacher) in
            > > > E CT, RI or up in MA BAY so I can move the boat bak there were the
            > > > sailing is better. The boat is very comfortable both sailing and in
            > > > terms of sleeping?living aboard, IM 6.3 and had no issues.
            > > >
            > > > Originally I had planned to bring my boat to my house for the winter
            > > > so I could use a dehumidifier and heat. I ended up with some rudder
            > > > bearing issues this winter so my boat is in the yard in Black Rock.
            > > >
            > > > I plan on opening the deck and applying heat/hot air and relying on
            > > > the dry winter conditions (I have an awesome Fairclough winter cover
            > > > so things stay really dry on deck and there is some actual solar
            > > > heating on warm days.
            > > > I am also thinking of using Silica Gel to help wick addtional
            > > > moisture. The CPES will displace some moisture, but you need to get
            > > > things as dry as possible first.
            > > > Honestly, I think ALL of these boats have this problem to one degree
            > > > or another, owners are just unaware or unconcerned. The moisture
            > > > meters are only relative numbers and are not the final word, unless
            > > > you acually use the type that you drill into the boat and insert the
            > > > meter.
            > > >
            > > > One thing to check before winter is your rudder. The top of the rudder
            > > > is open and the boats can get water inside. Drill a small hole at the
            > > > bottom to let any water drain out. I did not due this....and now have
            > > > 200lbs of fiberglass in my basement lol
            > > >
            > > > MY boat does not have the folding prop, it was replaced with a large 3
            > > > blad fixed prop. It is way too big for the tiny 2GM and I max out at
            > > > 2500 rpms. Any more and I blow black smoke. The boat will do 6.5 knts
            > > > this ways and the GPS has indicated 7-8 over the bottom in a good
            > > > breeze with the kite up _ i am estimating the max true hull speed is
            > > > 6.5kts. Pretty good for a 24' waterline and 8000lbs. I plan on
            > > > replacing the prop this year and am looking for information regarding
            > > > size and manufacturer The Martec runs about 700 and a GORI is 1100.
            > > > Not sure if it is that much better. One thing about the 3 blade prop
            > > > is the boat is really easy and predictable when backing. The Yanmar
            > > > ran unbelieivably well last summer. Tough to start in the cold weather
            > > > but just crrank it a little longer and give here a bit of fuel.
            > > >
            > > > If you want to chat real time and or compare boats you can reach me at
            > > > my home email thistle4002@ or sailingmaster@
            > > >
            > > > I also posted some pics of my boat on the J28 page if you are curious
            > > >
            > > > JP
            > > > On Nov 3, 2011, at 9:35 AM, wjmfoster wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > JP,
            > > > >
            > > > > I bought the boat in question and had a pretty good survey
            > > > > conducted, indicating the spots Roy talked about. i sailed the boat
            > > > > back to CT a few weeks ago and have hauled her and plan to have her
            > > > > covered this winter in order to address the deck issues. the amount
            > > > > of moisture while more than i'd like of course does not appear to be
            > > > > extreme and no delamination was detected.
            > > > >
            > > > > It's going to be a big project to address the decks this winter so i
            > > > > am very much interested to hear what you will be doing and i would
            > > > > love to know what products you will be using. Since i've been doing
            > > > > research one thing i think i will do is re-bed with butyl tape for
            > > > > all deck hardware as the more i have read about this the better it
            > > > > seems to be than the usual round of adhesives.How are you planning
            > > > > to dry out the core in your deck, i hear mixed reviews on the
            > > > > success of acheiving a truly dry core? my thought is to remove the
            > > > > hardware and tape the holes off above decks to prevent further
            > > > > ingress and then use a dehumidifier inside the boat as often as
            > > > > possible with some heat as well to extract moisture as best i can.
            > > > > then to stabilize the core with thin resin, a method such as you
            > > > > suggest with CPES and then to ensure i have solid epoxy in way of
            > > > > the holes and then re-drill and re-mount with the butyl tape.
            > > > >
            > > > > Does your boat have the Martec 16x14 prop? how does your 2GM do for
            > > > > rpm? can you get it up to 3400 or do you max out at more like
            > > > > 2800-3000? I cruised her at 2000 this fall making 5.9 knots in flat
            > > > > water.
            > > > >
            > > > > Also, have you had any reason to look into the prop shaft strut
            > > > > connection to your hull? do you see what appears to be moisture
            > > > > under the paint after you haul out? any idea if this area is solid
            > > > > glass as it ought to be or is this area cored as well, any input
            > > > > from others welcome on this. I am not overly concerned at this point
            > > > > but id like to get a jump on anything others know to be suspect.
            > > > >
            > > > > I am also in CT in the mystic area, will be keeping the boat down in
            > > > > Noank in the summers, up here at Fort Rachel in mystic for this
            > > > > winter. We have only sailed the boat once, deliverying it to mystic
            > > > > and love it. she sails very well and with the relatively modern
            > > > > layout below has made my wife very happy to be onboard.
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@>
            > > > > wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > When I was looking for a boat, I could not even get an appointment
            > > > > to
            > > > > > see this one.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Evidently, the guy that owned it was in the middle of a divorce and
            > > > > > really did not want to sell it. Evidently it has been sitting on the
            > > > > > hard uncovered for quite some time.
            > > > > > I never saw the boat, but a broker friend had made inquiries and I
            > > > > > talked to others on the J28 site about here. I had heard the same as
            > > > > > ROY posted.
            > > > > > The decks were wet and the boat desparatley needs a bottom job. It
            > > > > > seems the price has come down a bit.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > It would be worth a look with good surveyor and a moisture meter.
            > > > > > My boat has some moisture in the decks, buts it has been detected
            > > > > > early. There is no rot or delamination so I Sailed the boat this
            > > > > year
            > > > > > and am in the process of removining the chain plates and tracks to
            > > > > dry
            > > > > > out and seal the core.
            > > > > > If you decide this boat is worth the effort you should check out a
            > > > > > product called CPES(available thru jamestown or google rot doctor)
            > > > > > Looks like a good way to deal with boat with a cored deck so long as
            > > > > > you get to the moisture before it becomes a big project.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Where do you plan on keeping your 28? I am on long island sound and
            > > > > > would like to see some other boats and meet/ bounce ideas with other
            > > > > > owners. This is my first big boat after sailing dinghies and racing
            > > > > > for 25 years.
            > > > > > Still adjusting to the cost of winter storage and marina fees! lol
            > > > > >
            > > > > > You will love the 28. I have sailed small high performance boats my
            > > > > > whole life and unlike most cruisers in this size and price range,
            > > > > > nothing I have looked at sails as nicely as this boat.
            > > > > > I wish there was more storage down below. the Cockpit lockers are
            > > > > > huge, but hte boat is a bit ass heavy, so the only drawback I see to
            > > > > > the boat so far is this. If you are not that concerned with
            > > > > > perfromance you can easily store the dinghy barbecue, a few small
            > > > > > children and a dead mother in law! lol
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I had talked to a fellow on here about a boat in Maryland. I got a
            > > > > > nice boat up in Salem MA, but in retrospect, I wish I had looked at
            > > > > > this one also for comparison
            > > > > > I think the boat is #52 and the owner is Engle. He seemed like a
            > > > > > really nice guy and is looking for a home for the boat as he does
            > > > > not
            > > > > > have much time to sail it. IM not sure if it has been sold but its
            > > > > > worth an email
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Sorry for the delay but have been with out power in CT for 6 days!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > JP
            > > > > > On Nov 1, 2011, at 10:27 PM, wjmfoster wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > > JP,
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > What issues does the Barrington boat have that you know about? How
            > > > > > > do you think the boats for sale now on the makret compare? I
            > > > > admire
            > > > > > > the J 28 and would appreciate your opinion.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Bill
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <thistle4002@> wrote:
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > I see some boats for sale in New England.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > I hear the Barrinton boat has some issues. The others have been
            > > > > > > for sale for quite some time and seem overpriced. I am a small
            > > > > boat
            > > > > > > sailor (thistles, lightnings, j24s etc) moving into the cruising
            > > > > > > world. I would appreciate any information advice possible as I
            > > > > dont
            > > > > > > want to buy someone elses headache. I have a lot to learn about
            > > > > big
            > > > > > > boats, and since I am a teacher, need to work on a realistic
            > > > > budget.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > I like the J28 as its seems small enough to sail alone, but big
            > > > > > > enough to take a few people over night. I will also live aboard
            > > > > for
            > > > > > > a few nites per week in the summer while working my sailing job
            > > > > on LIS
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Thanks to any and all that can provide advice on this boat and
            > > > > > > locating any that might be for sale.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > JP.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • John
            Just some comments regarding the rudder. I had mine out a few years ago. Yes, it had water in it. Yes I thought the bearing was shot, it wasn t. When I took
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 5, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Just some comments regarding the rudder. I had mine out a few years ago. Yes, it had water in it. Yes I thought the bearing was shot, it wasn't. When I took the rubber out I could move the blade and feel the "slop". Once removed I only measured a few thou clearance between the ss Colar on the post and the delrin bearing. That wasn't enough for me to pull the bearing. My bearing did not have set screws or grease fittings it was bonded. This design is a seawater lubricated journal bearing. Properly aligned this would last the life of the boat. Improper aligment yields rapid wear.

              If you must change the bearing I highly recommend you find a machine shop that can spin the rudder in a lathe and make sure the top and bottom bearings are true. This step may prove to be the most difficult but if the shaft isn't true having a free wheel will be hard. Once that is done and the bottom bearing is replaced the top bear should be loosened and "floated" in before tightening. You'll know this is done right if you can spin the rudder with ease before putting the quandrant back on and before setting the gland packing. .

              My top stock collects water also. This year I put a piece of duct tape over the top, that helped. This year I'm going to fill the tube with foam and seal it. I don't like water getting to where I don't want it. I use tension on the packing gland and tension on the rudder cables to control my wheel effort. My wheel spins very easy ie finger tip control and great feel.

              My 2 cents

              John

              --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@...> wrote:
              >
              > Kurt,
              >
              > Thanks for the input, especially on the solid core along centerline. I will pump out the water from the rudder post and check its saltiness, fingers crosse. I did try to drill a hole in the bottom of the blade last night. i drilled in up from under in the very bottom, maybe 2" and did not "break through" into foam. just solid glass from the difficulty and shavings. i guess maybe the thing to do is drill in the side at 6" up from the bottom but im not anxious to do that. I can only see moisture in the very trailing edge, bottom corner, maybe 2 square inches. i can also see a tiny hairline crack in this area along the bottom edge too. i think my approach will be to clip/sand the paint off in this area and investigate further.
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Bill
              >
              > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt" <kbianculli@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi Bill,
              > >
              > > I response to your earlier question about moisture at the strut and if there is any core there... There isn't any core for approx 6" on either side of the centerline. I found this out when I put in new speed and depth transducers.
              > >
              > > In my opinion pumping the water out of the rudder stock with a long hose and hand pump is the way to go. I remember the first year I was laying up my J-28 for the winter and discovering the water inside the rudder. I had a moment of dread until I pumped it out and realized (by sticking my finger in it and tasting it) that it was fresh water. It turns out (in my case at least) the water I have to pump out each year is just condensation that pools in the rudder stock and not salt water finding its way in. Hopefully yours is the same.
              > >
              > > Kurt
              > > Hull #71
              > >
              > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > JP,
              > > >
              > > > Thanks, i'll get back to you via personal email, but you have sparked my interest with your comments about the rudder.
              > > >
              > > > For one, how is your rudder bearing? i have noticed my lower bearing has about 1/4" total slop from side to side so i am not too worried yet, but its going on the list of things to address down the road, as i understand this is a failing on the J28.
              > > >
              > > > I also noticed when looking in the inspection port above the rudder post it is hollow, fiberglass tube and i could see some water isnide the tube. i was not yet sure what to do about this, but for one figured water inside the tube where the boat had been out of the water for 2 years was not good, but also good. ie: it had not drained out indicating it was/is watertight?
              > > >
              > > > you drill a hole in your rudder to drain it, when you did this how much came out? where exactly did you drill it? the post does not run down all the way to the bottom of the blade as best i can tell. is there a reported issue with water freezing indise the rudder post and then cracking the post? very curious and somewhat worrying. i might try pumping this water out with a hand pump and long hose and seeing how far down the holow shaft goes tongiht and loooking into this more.
              > > >
              > > > I'm very interested to hear what you have found.
              > > >
              > > > Bill
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > I would love to discuss these issues before I get started on the
              > > > > project.
              > > > >
              > > > > I live in Enfield, CT and keep my boat in BLACK ROCK (near Brdgeport)
              > > > > I lived aboard all last summer, as I run a large junior sailing
              > > > > program on the western end of the sound.
              > > > > After this year I will be looking for summer jobs (I am a teacher) in
              > > > > E CT, RI or up in MA BAY so I can move the boat bak there were the
              > > > > sailing is better. The boat is very comfortable both sailing and in
              > > > > terms of sleeping?living aboard, IM 6.3 and had no issues.
              > > > >
              > > > > Originally I had planned to bring my boat to my house for the winter
              > > > > so I could use a dehumidifier and heat. I ended up with some rudder
              > > > > bearing issues this winter so my boat is in the yard in Black Rock.
              > > > >
              > > > > I plan on opening the deck and applying heat/hot air and relying on
              > > > > the dry winter conditions (I have an awesome Fairclough winter cover
              > > > > so things stay really dry on deck and there is some actual solar
              > > > > heating on warm days.
              > > > > I am also thinking of using Silica Gel to help wick addtional
              > > > > moisture. The CPES will displace some moisture, but you need to get
              > > > > things as dry as possible first.
              > > > > Honestly, I think ALL of these boats have this problem to one degree
              > > > > or another, owners are just unaware or unconcerned. The moisture
              > > > > meters are only relative numbers and are not the final word, unless
              > > > > you acually use the type that you drill into the boat and insert the
              > > > > meter.
              > > > >
              > > > > One thing to check before winter is your rudder. The top of the rudder
              > > > > is open and the boats can get water inside. Drill a small hole at the
              > > > > bottom to let any water drain out. I did not due this....and now have
              > > > > 200lbs of fiberglass in my basement lol
              > > > >
              > > > > MY boat does not have the folding prop, it was replaced with a large 3
              > > > > blad fixed prop. It is way too big for the tiny 2GM and I max out at
              > > > > 2500 rpms. Any more and I blow black smoke. The boat will do 6.5 knts
              > > > > this ways and the GPS has indicated 7-8 over the bottom in a good
              > > > > breeze with the kite up _ i am estimating the max true hull speed is
              > > > > 6.5kts. Pretty good for a 24' waterline and 8000lbs. I plan on
              > > > > replacing the prop this year and am looking for information regarding
              > > > > size and manufacturer The Martec runs about 700 and a GORI is 1100.
              > > > > Not sure if it is that much better. One thing about the 3 blade prop
              > > > > is the boat is really easy and predictable when backing. The Yanmar
              > > > > ran unbelieivably well last summer. Tough to start in the cold weather
              > > > > but just crrank it a little longer and give here a bit of fuel.
              > > > >
              > > > > If you want to chat real time and or compare boats you can reach me at
              > > > > my home email thistle4002@ or sailingmaster@
              > > > >
              > > > > I also posted some pics of my boat on the J28 page if you are curious
              > > > >
              > > > > JP
              > > > > On Nov 3, 2011, at 9:35 AM, wjmfoster wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > > JP,
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I bought the boat in question and had a pretty good survey
              > > > > > conducted, indicating the spots Roy talked about. i sailed the boat
              > > > > > back to CT a few weeks ago and have hauled her and plan to have her
              > > > > > covered this winter in order to address the deck issues. the amount
              > > > > > of moisture while more than i'd like of course does not appear to be
              > > > > > extreme and no delamination was detected.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > It's going to be a big project to address the decks this winter so i
              > > > > > am very much interested to hear what you will be doing and i would
              > > > > > love to know what products you will be using. Since i've been doing
              > > > > > research one thing i think i will do is re-bed with butyl tape for
              > > > > > all deck hardware as the more i have read about this the better it
              > > > > > seems to be than the usual round of adhesives.How are you planning
              > > > > > to dry out the core in your deck, i hear mixed reviews on the
              > > > > > success of acheiving a truly dry core? my thought is to remove the
              > > > > > hardware and tape the holes off above decks to prevent further
              > > > > > ingress and then use a dehumidifier inside the boat as often as
              > > > > > possible with some heat as well to extract moisture as best i can.
              > > > > > then to stabilize the core with thin resin, a method such as you
              > > > > > suggest with CPES and then to ensure i have solid epoxy in way of
              > > > > > the holes and then re-drill and re-mount with the butyl tape.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Does your boat have the Martec 16x14 prop? how does your 2GM do for
              > > > > > rpm? can you get it up to 3400 or do you max out at more like
              > > > > > 2800-3000? I cruised her at 2000 this fall making 5.9 knots in flat
              > > > > > water.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Also, have you had any reason to look into the prop shaft strut
              > > > > > connection to your hull? do you see what appears to be moisture
              > > > > > under the paint after you haul out? any idea if this area is solid
              > > > > > glass as it ought to be or is this area cored as well, any input
              > > > > > from others welcome on this. I am not overly concerned at this point
              > > > > > but id like to get a jump on anything others know to be suspect.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I am also in CT in the mystic area, will be keeping the boat down in
              > > > > > Noank in the summers, up here at Fort Rachel in mystic for this
              > > > > > winter. We have only sailed the boat once, deliverying it to mystic
              > > > > > and love it. she sails very well and with the relatively modern
              > > > > > layout below has made my wife very happy to be onboard.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@>
              > > > > > wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > When I was looking for a boat, I could not even get an appointment
              > > > > > to
              > > > > > > see this one.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Evidently, the guy that owned it was in the middle of a divorce and
              > > > > > > really did not want to sell it. Evidently it has been sitting on the
              > > > > > > hard uncovered for quite some time.
              > > > > > > I never saw the boat, but a broker friend had made inquiries and I
              > > > > > > talked to others on the J28 site about here. I had heard the same as
              > > > > > > ROY posted.
              > > > > > > The decks were wet and the boat desparatley needs a bottom job. It
              > > > > > > seems the price has come down a bit.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > It would be worth a look with good surveyor and a moisture meter.
              > > > > > > My boat has some moisture in the decks, buts it has been detected
              > > > > > > early. There is no rot or delamination so I Sailed the boat this
              > > > > > year
              > > > > > > and am in the process of removining the chain plates and tracks to
              > > > > > dry
              > > > > > > out and seal the core.
              > > > > > > If you decide this boat is worth the effort you should check out a
              > > > > > > product called CPES(available thru jamestown or google rot doctor)
              > > > > > > Looks like a good way to deal with boat with a cored deck so long as
              > > > > > > you get to the moisture before it becomes a big project.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Where do you plan on keeping your 28? I am on long island sound and
              > > > > > > would like to see some other boats and meet/ bounce ideas with other
              > > > > > > owners. This is my first big boat after sailing dinghies and racing
              > > > > > > for 25 years.
              > > > > > > Still adjusting to the cost of winter storage and marina fees! lol
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > You will love the 28. I have sailed small high performance boats my
              > > > > > > whole life and unlike most cruisers in this size and price range,
              > > > > > > nothing I have looked at sails as nicely as this boat.
              > > > > > > I wish there was more storage down below. the Cockpit lockers are
              > > > > > > huge, but hte boat is a bit ass heavy, so the only drawback I see to
              > > > > > > the boat so far is this. If you are not that concerned with
              > > > > > > perfromance you can easily store the dinghy barbecue, a few small
              > > > > > > children and a dead mother in law! lol
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > I had talked to a fellow on here about a boat in Maryland. I got a
              > > > > > > nice boat up in Salem MA, but in retrospect, I wish I had looked at
              > > > > > > this one also for comparison
              > > > > > > I think the boat is #52 and the owner is Engle. He seemed like a
              > > > > > > really nice guy and is looking for a home for the boat as he does
              > > > > > not
              > > > > > > have much time to sail it. IM not sure if it has been sold but its
              > > > > > > worth an email
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Sorry for the delay but have been with out power in CT for 6 days!
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > JP
              > > > > > > On Nov 1, 2011, at 10:27 PM, wjmfoster wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > JP,
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > What issues does the Barrington boat have that you know about? How
              > > > > > > > do you think the boats for sale now on the makret compare? I
              > > > > > admire
              > > > > > > > the J 28 and would appreciate your opinion.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Bill
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <thistle4002@> wrote:
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > I see some boats for sale in New England.
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > I hear the Barrinton boat has some issues. The others have been
              > > > > > > > for sale for quite some time and seem overpriced. I am a small
              > > > > > boat
              > > > > > > > sailor (thistles, lightnings, j24s etc) moving into the cruising
              > > > > > > > world. I would appreciate any information advice possible as I
              > > > > > dont
              > > > > > > > want to buy someone elses headache. I have a lot to learn about
              > > > > > big
              > > > > > > > boats, and since I am a teacher, need to work on a realistic
              > > > > > budget.
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > I like the J28 as its seems small enough to sail alone, but big
              > > > > > > > enough to take a few people over night. I will also live aboard
              > > > > > for
              > > > > > > > a few nites per week in the summer while working my sailing job
              > > > > > on LIS
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > Thanks to any and all that can provide advice on this boat and
              > > > > > > > locating any that might be for sale.
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > JP.
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • wjmfoster
              John, Great comments and they are appreciated. It sounds like some experience others, myself included can benefit from. I did pump out my rudder post over the
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 7, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                John,

                Great comments and they are appreciated. It sounds like some experience others, myself included can benefit from.

                I did pump out my rudder post over the weekend and i did not taste the water that came out, as it was pink. So i'm assuming someone in the past at least had the sense to put propylene glycol in it to prevent freezing damage. I'm going to try to keep it dry, i'll tape it to see how that does and check it in a few weeks.

                I still have not drilled a hole up in the side of my rudder blade as this just seems extreme. the hole i drilled in from the bottom felt wet at least a day after drilling it. so it may be working as intended and im going with that approach in winter for now.

                On another note, has anyone found the air filter housing of the 2GM to be heavily corroded inside and out on the lower half of it? I'm wondering why this is with mine and if its's because of the engine burping seawater back through due to hard starting in the past. if so, how come it did not suffer damage due to hydrolock? or maybe it did and i just don't know it.

                Bill

                --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jfws88@...> wrote:
                >
                > Just some comments regarding the rudder. I had mine out a few years ago. Yes, it had water in it. Yes I thought the bearing was shot, it wasn't. When I took the rubber out I could move the blade and feel the "slop". Once removed I only measured a few thou clearance between the ss Colar on the post and the delrin bearing. That wasn't enough for me to pull the bearing. My bearing did not have set screws or grease fittings it was bonded. This design is a seawater lubricated journal bearing. Properly aligned this would last the life of the boat. Improper aligment yields rapid wear.
                >
                > If you must change the bearing I highly recommend you find a machine shop that can spin the rudder in a lathe and make sure the top and bottom bearings are true. This step may prove to be the most difficult but if the shaft isn't true having a free wheel will be hard. Once that is done and the bottom bearing is replaced the top bear should be loosened and "floated" in before tightening. You'll know this is done right if you can spin the rudder with ease before putting the quandrant back on and before setting the gland packing. .
                >
                > My top stock collects water also. This year I put a piece of duct tape over the top, that helped. This year I'm going to fill the tube with foam and seal it. I don't like water getting to where I don't want it. I use tension on the packing gland and tension on the rudder cables to control my wheel effort. My wheel spins very easy ie finger tip control and great feel.
                >
                > My 2 cents
                >
                > John
                >
                > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Kurt,
                > >
                > > Thanks for the input, especially on the solid core along centerline. I will pump out the water from the rudder post and check its saltiness, fingers crosse. I did try to drill a hole in the bottom of the blade last night. i drilled in up from under in the very bottom, maybe 2" and did not "break through" into foam. just solid glass from the difficulty and shavings. i guess maybe the thing to do is drill in the side at 6" up from the bottom but im not anxious to do that. I can only see moisture in the very trailing edge, bottom corner, maybe 2 square inches. i can also see a tiny hairline crack in this area along the bottom edge too. i think my approach will be to clip/sand the paint off in this area and investigate further.
                > >
                > > Regards,
                > >
                > > Bill
                > >
                > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt" <kbianculli@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Hi Bill,
                > > >
                > > > I response to your earlier question about moisture at the strut and if there is any core there... There isn't any core for approx 6" on either side of the centerline. I found this out when I put in new speed and depth transducers.
                > > >
                > > > In my opinion pumping the water out of the rudder stock with a long hose and hand pump is the way to go. I remember the first year I was laying up my J-28 for the winter and discovering the water inside the rudder. I had a moment of dread until I pumped it out and realized (by sticking my finger in it and tasting it) that it was fresh water. It turns out (in my case at least) the water I have to pump out each year is just condensation that pools in the rudder stock and not salt water finding its way in. Hopefully yours is the same.
                > > >
                > > > Kurt
                > > > Hull #71
                > > >
                > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > JP,
                > > > >
                > > > > Thanks, i'll get back to you via personal email, but you have sparked my interest with your comments about the rudder.
                > > > >
                > > > > For one, how is your rudder bearing? i have noticed my lower bearing has about 1/4" total slop from side to side so i am not too worried yet, but its going on the list of things to address down the road, as i understand this is a failing on the J28.
                > > > >
                > > > > I also noticed when looking in the inspection port above the rudder post it is hollow, fiberglass tube and i could see some water isnide the tube. i was not yet sure what to do about this, but for one figured water inside the tube where the boat had been out of the water for 2 years was not good, but also good. ie: it had not drained out indicating it was/is watertight?
                > > > >
                > > > > you drill a hole in your rudder to drain it, when you did this how much came out? where exactly did you drill it? the post does not run down all the way to the bottom of the blade as best i can tell. is there a reported issue with water freezing indise the rudder post and then cracking the post? very curious and somewhat worrying. i might try pumping this water out with a hand pump and long hose and seeing how far down the holow shaft goes tongiht and loooking into this more.
                > > > >
                > > > > I'm very interested to hear what you have found.
                > > > >
                > > > > Bill
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I would love to discuss these issues before I get started on the
                > > > > > project.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I live in Enfield, CT and keep my boat in BLACK ROCK (near Brdgeport)
                > > > > > I lived aboard all last summer, as I run a large junior sailing
                > > > > > program on the western end of the sound.
                > > > > > After this year I will be looking for summer jobs (I am a teacher) in
                > > > > > E CT, RI or up in MA BAY so I can move the boat bak there were the
                > > > > > sailing is better. The boat is very comfortable both sailing and in
                > > > > > terms of sleeping?living aboard, IM 6.3 and had no issues.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Originally I had planned to bring my boat to my house for the winter
                > > > > > so I could use a dehumidifier and heat. I ended up with some rudder
                > > > > > bearing issues this winter so my boat is in the yard in Black Rock.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I plan on opening the deck and applying heat/hot air and relying on
                > > > > > the dry winter conditions (I have an awesome Fairclough winter cover
                > > > > > so things stay really dry on deck and there is some actual solar
                > > > > > heating on warm days.
                > > > > > I am also thinking of using Silica Gel to help wick addtional
                > > > > > moisture. The CPES will displace some moisture, but you need to get
                > > > > > things as dry as possible first.
                > > > > > Honestly, I think ALL of these boats have this problem to one degree
                > > > > > or another, owners are just unaware or unconcerned. The moisture
                > > > > > meters are only relative numbers and are not the final word, unless
                > > > > > you acually use the type that you drill into the boat and insert the
                > > > > > meter.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > One thing to check before winter is your rudder. The top of the rudder
                > > > > > is open and the boats can get water inside. Drill a small hole at the
                > > > > > bottom to let any water drain out. I did not due this....and now have
                > > > > > 200lbs of fiberglass in my basement lol
                > > > > >
                > > > > > MY boat does not have the folding prop, it was replaced with a large 3
                > > > > > blad fixed prop. It is way too big for the tiny 2GM and I max out at
                > > > > > 2500 rpms. Any more and I blow black smoke. The boat will do 6.5 knts
                > > > > > this ways and the GPS has indicated 7-8 over the bottom in a good
                > > > > > breeze with the kite up _ i am estimating the max true hull speed is
                > > > > > 6.5kts. Pretty good for a 24' waterline and 8000lbs. I plan on
                > > > > > replacing the prop this year and am looking for information regarding
                > > > > > size and manufacturer The Martec runs about 700 and a GORI is 1100.
                > > > > > Not sure if it is that much better. One thing about the 3 blade prop
                > > > > > is the boat is really easy and predictable when backing. The Yanmar
                > > > > > ran unbelieivably well last summer. Tough to start in the cold weather
                > > > > > but just crrank it a little longer and give here a bit of fuel.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > If you want to chat real time and or compare boats you can reach me at
                > > > > > my home email thistle4002@ or sailingmaster@
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I also posted some pics of my boat on the J28 page if you are curious
                > > > > >
                > > > > > JP
                > > > > > On Nov 3, 2011, at 9:35 AM, wjmfoster wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > > JP,
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > I bought the boat in question and had a pretty good survey
                > > > > > > conducted, indicating the spots Roy talked about. i sailed the boat
                > > > > > > back to CT a few weeks ago and have hauled her and plan to have her
                > > > > > > covered this winter in order to address the deck issues. the amount
                > > > > > > of moisture while more than i'd like of course does not appear to be
                > > > > > > extreme and no delamination was detected.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > It's going to be a big project to address the decks this winter so i
                > > > > > > am very much interested to hear what you will be doing and i would
                > > > > > > love to know what products you will be using. Since i've been doing
                > > > > > > research one thing i think i will do is re-bed with butyl tape for
                > > > > > > all deck hardware as the more i have read about this the better it
                > > > > > > seems to be than the usual round of adhesives.How are you planning
                > > > > > > to dry out the core in your deck, i hear mixed reviews on the
                > > > > > > success of acheiving a truly dry core? my thought is to remove the
                > > > > > > hardware and tape the holes off above decks to prevent further
                > > > > > > ingress and then use a dehumidifier inside the boat as often as
                > > > > > > possible with some heat as well to extract moisture as best i can.
                > > > > > > then to stabilize the core with thin resin, a method such as you
                > > > > > > suggest with CPES and then to ensure i have solid epoxy in way of
                > > > > > > the holes and then re-drill and re-mount with the butyl tape.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Does your boat have the Martec 16x14 prop? how does your 2GM do for
                > > > > > > rpm? can you get it up to 3400 or do you max out at more like
                > > > > > > 2800-3000? I cruised her at 2000 this fall making 5.9 knots in flat
                > > > > > > water.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Also, have you had any reason to look into the prop shaft strut
                > > > > > > connection to your hull? do you see what appears to be moisture
                > > > > > > under the paint after you haul out? any idea if this area is solid
                > > > > > > glass as it ought to be or is this area cored as well, any input
                > > > > > > from others welcome on this. I am not overly concerned at this point
                > > > > > > but id like to get a jump on anything others know to be suspect.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > I am also in CT in the mystic area, will be keeping the boat down in
                > > > > > > Noank in the summers, up here at Fort Rachel in mystic for this
                > > > > > > winter. We have only sailed the boat once, deliverying it to mystic
                > > > > > > and love it. she sails very well and with the relatively modern
                > > > > > > layout below has made my wife very happy to be onboard.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@>
                > > > > > > wrote:
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > When I was looking for a boat, I could not even get an appointment
                > > > > > > to
                > > > > > > > see this one.
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > Evidently, the guy that owned it was in the middle of a divorce and
                > > > > > > > really did not want to sell it. Evidently it has been sitting on the
                > > > > > > > hard uncovered for quite some time.
                > > > > > > > I never saw the boat, but a broker friend had made inquiries and I
                > > > > > > > talked to others on the J28 site about here. I had heard the same as
                > > > > > > > ROY posted.
                > > > > > > > The decks were wet and the boat desparatley needs a bottom job. It
                > > > > > > > seems the price has come down a bit.
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > It would be worth a look with good surveyor and a moisture meter.
                > > > > > > > My boat has some moisture in the decks, buts it has been detected
                > > > > > > > early. There is no rot or delamination so I Sailed the boat this
                > > > > > > year
                > > > > > > > and am in the process of removining the chain plates and tracks to
                > > > > > > dry
                > > > > > > > out and seal the core.
                > > > > > > > If you decide this boat is worth the effort you should check out a
                > > > > > > > product called CPES(available thru jamestown or google rot doctor)
                > > > > > > > Looks like a good way to deal with boat with a cored deck so long as
                > > > > > > > you get to the moisture before it becomes a big project.
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > Where do you plan on keeping your 28? I am on long island sound and
                > > > > > > > would like to see some other boats and meet/ bounce ideas with other
                > > > > > > > owners. This is my first big boat after sailing dinghies and racing
                > > > > > > > for 25 years.
                > > > > > > > Still adjusting to the cost of winter storage and marina fees! lol
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > You will love the 28. I have sailed small high performance boats my
                > > > > > > > whole life and unlike most cruisers in this size and price range,
                > > > > > > > nothing I have looked at sails as nicely as this boat.
                > > > > > > > I wish there was more storage down below. the Cockpit lockers are
                > > > > > > > huge, but hte boat is a bit ass heavy, so the only drawback I see to
                > > > > > > > the boat so far is this. If you are not that concerned with
                > > > > > > > perfromance you can easily store the dinghy barbecue, a few small
                > > > > > > > children and a dead mother in law! lol
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > I had talked to a fellow on here about a boat in Maryland. I got a
                > > > > > > > nice boat up in Salem MA, but in retrospect, I wish I had looked at
                > > > > > > > this one also for comparison
                > > > > > > > I think the boat is #52 and the owner is Engle. He seemed like a
                > > > > > > > really nice guy and is looking for a home for the boat as he does
                > > > > > > not
                > > > > > > > have much time to sail it. IM not sure if it has been sold but its
                > > > > > > > worth an email
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > Sorry for the delay but have been with out power in CT for 6 days!
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > JP
                > > > > > > > On Nov 1, 2011, at 10:27 PM, wjmfoster wrote:
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > JP,
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > What issues does the Barrington boat have that you know about? How
                > > > > > > > > do you think the boats for sale now on the makret compare? I
                > > > > > > admire
                > > > > > > > > the J 28 and would appreciate your opinion.
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > Bill
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <thistle4002@> wrote:
                > > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > > I see some boats for sale in New England.
                > > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > > I hear the Barrinton boat has some issues. The others have been
                > > > > > > > > for sale for quite some time and seem overpriced. I am a small
                > > > > > > boat
                > > > > > > > > sailor (thistles, lightnings, j24s etc) moving into the cruising
                > > > > > > > > world. I would appreciate any information advice possible as I
                > > > > > > dont
                > > > > > > > > want to buy someone elses headache. I have a lot to learn about
                > > > > > > big
                > > > > > > > > boats, and since I am a teacher, need to work on a realistic
                > > > > > > budget.
                > > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > > I like the J28 as its seems small enough to sail alone, but big
                > > > > > > > > enough to take a few people over night. I will also live aboard
                > > > > > > for
                > > > > > > > > a few nites per week in the summer while working my sailing job
                > > > > > > on LIS
                > > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > > Thanks to any and all that can provide advice on this boat and
                > > > > > > > > locating any that might be for sale.
                > > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > > JP.
                > > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
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