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Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Diesel questions continued

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  • Jason Smith
    Jo I have to respectfully (but strongly) disagree here. The use of a biocide and select other additives are widely accepted practices that should have zero
    Message 1 of 30 , Jun 1, 2011
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      Jo
      I have to respectfully (but strongly) disagree here.  The use of a biocide and select other additives are widely accepted practices that should have zero effect on the operation of a diesel.  The size of the tank really is not the determining factor, but it is how often you go through the fuel!  The diesel "bug" can grow in a mason jar, given the proper conditions.  In the proper concentrations, I can't imagine a problem.  Yanmar specifically recommends the use of FPPF products (I use the lubricity additive, plus a biocide).

      It's hard to diagnose these problems.  I think we need more info from JP:

      What RPM does this happen?  Or, at all RPMs?
      Can you hear the engine sound change, or is it just the RPM (trying to eliminate a sender, or loose wiring problem)
      Any obvious loss of power?
      Any pinging / ticking noise?
      Did this just start happening, or has been present since you took possession.
      What size prop?  And can you reach max RPM

      I am wondering if there is a minor, minor air leak at the Racor that is allowing fuel to drain back prior to start up (there is enough fuel in the secondary filter and HP pump to start the motor).

      Check the big bolt at the top of the Racor and make sure it is tight, double check the plastic water drain screw...even a 1/4 turn can make a difference)

      Jason

      On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 9:37 PM, John <jfws88@...> wrote:
       

      JP, A couple of things I missed in your first post, the engine runs fine for some time and then starts to fluxuate? That doesn't sound like air any more (but check it anyway). It may have something to do with the additives.

      BTW, I never put anything other than fuel in my tank. These tanks are 12 gallons, very small by most standards. Deisal fuel additives are really meant for LARGE fuel tanks where there is a lot of surface area for stuff to grow. I've owned my boat for eight years and never had an issue with fuel. I did pull the tank for a cleaning one time but it was pretty clean when I did it. My 2 cents, don't add anything.

      John

      --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, John Power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
      >
      > Sounds good. I will check it. Im just wondering why it will run fine for 10-20 mins, then the rpms get funky, then it goes away.
      > Seems to me if there was an air leak like you describe, it would show up as soon as the engine started.  Still I amgoing to follow your advice....
      >
      > I am goingt toand check my foredeck too. My surveyor completely missed a spot at the starboard chainplate. That will be my upside down project later this summer since I am already in the water, luckily I think I found it early and i can probably use a dremel or fein sander and dig out between the glass layers of the deck and pack glass in there to restore the integrity of the area and block out furthe water penetration. I plan on removing everything this winter, drying out the core as much as possible with some acetone and rebedding, hoping to avoid the whole re core issue as long as possible
      >
      > Thanks for the advice.
      >
      > JP
      >
      > On Jun 01, 2011, at 01:09 PM, John <jfws88@...> wrote:
      >
      > JP, my guess is you have a very small air leak in the fuel system that is closing up with thermal expansion. I'd double check all the hose clamps on the fuel lines and take out and clean or at least tighten the bleed screw on the top of the primary filter.
      > If the filter was the problem it wouldn't go away with temperature and would get worst as you loaded the moter or rev'ed it up.
      >
      > John


      >
      > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
      > >
      > > This is my first experience with a diesel inboard so Im learning as I go.
      > > From what I understand a little reg maintenance and they are pretty headache free....so here goes.
      > >
      > > Often, but not always within the first 15-30 mins of running the diesel on my boat, the engine rpms will fluctuate. The problem will last a minute or two, then it seems to go away.
      > > I originally thought it might have had something to do with cold weather, but it continues now as the temps are up in the 80s. How concerned should I be?
      > >
      > > I would think this might be a sign of air or water in the fuel, but that doesnt explain how it ceases after the engine has been running. When I bought the boat, I put on all new filters and had the fuel tank drained, cleaned and replaced with fresh diesel. It has been treated at each fill up with algicide and fuel stablilizer.
      > >
      > > The other thing I think I need to do, is to change the primary fuel filter. I have the old style and cannot see when water has accumulated in the bowl and can only drain it by taking the whole thing apart. Any advice on replacing this. Current and commercial traffic are issues where I sail, so knowing that my engine is going to run is important to my anal retentive peace of mind.
      > >
      > > I dont know if I am worried about nothing. The engine seems to run fine after that first half hour,and is amazingly quiet and smooth.
      > >
      > > Thanks in advance for the info!
      > >
      > > JP
      > >
      >

      Recent Activity:
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      • john power
        Thanks for the advice. It happened before i did fuel additives as well I m stumped. I am going with the air theory for now. Just makes me nervous. I am
        Message 2 of 30 , Jun 1, 2011
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          Thanks for the advice. It happened before i did fuel additives as well

          I m stumped. I am going with the air theory for now.  Just makes me nervous. I am waiting for the day when it stops and I need it....

          Thanks for the help

          JP
          On Jun 1, 2011, at 9:37 PM, John wrote:

          JP, A couple of things I missed in your first post, the engine runs fine for some time and then starts to fluxuate? That doesn't sound like air any more (but check it anyway). It may have something to do with the additives. 

          BTW, I never put anything other than fuel in my tank. These tanks are 12 gallons, very small by most standards. Deisal fuel additives are really meant for LARGE fuel tanks where there is a lot of surface area for stuff to grow. I've owned my boat for eight years and never had an issue with fuel. I did pull the tank for a cleaning one time but it was pretty clean when I did it. My 2 cents, don't add anything.

          John

          --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, John Power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
          >
          > Sounds good. I will check it. Im just wondering why it will run fine for 10-20 mins, then the rpms get funky, then it goes away.
          > Seems to me if there was an air leak like you describe, it would show up as soon as the engine started.  Still I amgoing to follow your advice....
          > 
          > I am goingt toand check my foredeck too. My surveyor completely missed a spot at the starboard chainplate. That will be my upside down project later this summer since I am already in the water, luckily I think I found it early and i can probably use a dremel or fein sander and dig out between the glass layers of the deck and pack glass in there to restore the integrity of the area and block out furthe water penetration. I plan on removing everything this winter, drying out the core as much as possible with some acetone and rebedding, hoping to avoid the whole re core issue as long as possible
          > 
          > Thanks for the advice.
          > 
          > JP
          > 
          > On Jun 01, 2011, at 01:09 PM, John <jfws88@...> wrote:
          > 
          > JP, my guess is you have a very small air leak in the fuel system that is closing up with thermal expansion. I'd double check all the hose clamps on the fuel lines and take out and clean or at least tighten the bleed screw on the top of the primary filter. 
          > If the filter was the problem it wouldn't go away with temperature and would get worst as you loaded the moter or rev'ed it up.
          > 
          > John
          > 
          > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
          > >
          > > This is my first experience with a diesel inboard so Im learning as I go.
          > > From what I understand a little reg maintenance and they are pretty headache free....so here goes.
          > > 
          > > Often, but not always within the first 15-30 mins of running the diesel on my boat, the engine rpms will fluctuate. The problem will last a minute or two, then it seems to go away.
          > > I originally thought it might have had something to do with cold weather, but it continues now as the temps are up in the 80s. How concerned should I be?
          > > 
          > > I would think this might be a sign of air or water in the fuel, but that doesnt explain how it ceases after the engine has been running. When I bought the boat, I put on all new filters and had the fuel tank drained, cleaned and replaced with fresh diesel. It has been treated at each fill up with algicide and fuel stablilizer.
          > > 
          > > The other thing I think I need to do, is to change the primary fuel filter. I have the old style and cannot see when water has accumulated in the bowl and can only drain it by taking the whole thing apart. Any advice on replacing this. Current and commercial traffic are issues where I sail, so knowing that my engine is going to run is important to my anal retentive peace of mind.
          > > 
          > > I dont know if I am worried about nothing. The engine seems to run fine after that first half hour,and is amazingly quiet and smooth. 
          > > 
          > > Thanks in advance for the info!
          > > 
          > > JP
          > >
          >


        • Jason Smith
          Dude...that s when you drop the anchor and call for the Tow Boat US (you do have unlimited towing, right....).
          Message 3 of 30 , Jun 1, 2011
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            Dude...that's when you drop the anchor and call for the Tow Boat US (you do have unlimited towing, right....).

            On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:32 PM, john power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
             

            Thanks for the advice. It happened before i did fuel additives as well


            I m stumped. I am going with the air theory for now.  Just makes me nervous. I am waiting for the day when it stops and I need it....

            Thanks for the help

            JP

            On Jun 1, 2011, at 9:37 PM, John wrote:

            JP, A couple of things I missed in your first post, the engine runs fine for some time and then starts to fluxuate? That doesn't sound like air any more (but check it anyway). It may have something to do with the additives. 

            BTW, I never put anything other than fuel in my tank. These tanks are 12 gallons, very small by most standards. Deisal fuel additives are really meant for LARGE fuel tanks where there is a lot of surface area for stuff to grow. I've owned my boat for eight years and never had an issue with fuel. I did pull the tank for a cleaning one time but it was pretty clean when I did it. My 2 cents, don't add anything.

            John

            --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, John Power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
            >
            > Sounds good. I will check it. Im just wondering why it will run fine for 10-20 mins, then the rpms get funky, then it goes away.
            > Seems to me if there was an air leak like you describe, it would show up as soon as the engine started.  Still I amgoing to follow your advice....
            > 
            > I am goingt toand check my foredeck too. My surveyor completely missed a spot at the starboard chainplate. That will be my upside down project later this summer since I am already in the water, luckily I think I found it early and i can probably use a dremel or fein sander and dig out between the glass layers of the deck and pack glass in there to restore the integrity of the area and block out furthe water penetration. I plan on removing everything this winter, drying out the core as much as possible with some acetone and rebedding, hoping to avoid the whole re core issue as long as possible
            > 
            > Thanks for the advice.
            > 
            > JP
            > 
            > On Jun 01, 2011, at 01:09 PM, John <jfws88@...> wrote:
            > 
            > JP, my guess is you have a very small air leak in the fuel system that is closing up with thermal expansion. I'd double check all the hose clamps on the fuel lines and take out and clean or at least tighten the bleed screw on the top of the primary filter. 
            > If the filter was the problem it wouldn't go away with temperature and would get worst as you loaded the moter or rev'ed it up.
            > 
            > John
            > 
            > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
            > >
            > > This is my first experience with a diesel inboard so Im learning as I go.
            > > From what I understand a little reg maintenance and they are pretty headache free....so here goes.
            > > 
            > > Often, but not always within the first 15-30 mins of running the diesel on my boat, the engine rpms will fluctuate. The problem will last a minute or two, then it seems to go away.
            > > I originally thought it might have had something to do with cold weather, but it continues now as the temps are up in the 80s. How concerned should I be?
            > > 
            > > I would think this might be a sign of air or water in the fuel, but that doesnt explain how it ceases after the engine has been running. When I bought the boat, I put on all new filters and had the fuel tank drained, cleaned and replaced with fresh diesel. It has been treated at each fill up with algicide and fuel stablilizer.
            > > 
            > > The other thing I think I need to do, is to change the primary fuel filter. I have the old style and cannot see when water has accumulated in the bowl and can only drain it by taking the whole thing apart. Any advice on replacing this. Current and commercial traffic are issues where I sail, so knowing that my engine is going to run is important to my anal retentive peace of mind.
            > > 
            > > I dont know if I am worried about nothing. The engine seems to run fine after that first half hour,and is amazingly quiet and smooth. 
            > > 
            > > Thanks in advance for the info!
            > > 
            > > JP
            > >
            >



          • Kurt
            How many RPM does it fluctuate when it happens? Is it possible the load is fluctuating due to waves? The governor keeps the RPMs fairly steady when the
            Message 4 of 30 , Jun 1, 2011
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              How many RPM does it fluctuate when it happens? Is it possible the load is fluctuating due to waves? The governor keeps the RPMs fairly steady when the engine load is varying due to the boat climbing up/sliding down waves. However you will still see small fluctuations.

              Kurt

              --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks for the advice. It happened before i did fuel additives as well
              >
              > I m stumped. I am going with the air theory for now. Just makes me
              > nervous. I am waiting for the day when it stops and I need it....
              >
              > Thanks for the help
              >
              > JP
              > On Jun 1, 2011, at 9:37 PM, John wrote:
              >
              > > JP, A couple of things I missed in your first post, the engine runs
              > > fine for some time and then starts to fluxuate? That doesn't sound
              > > like air any more (but check it anyway). It may have something to do
              > > with the additives.
              > >
              > > BTW, I never put anything other than fuel in my tank. These tanks
              > > are 12 gallons, very small by most standards. Deisal fuel additives
              > > are really meant for LARGE fuel tanks where there is a lot of
              > > surface area for stuff to grow. I've owned my boat for eight years
              > > and never had an issue with fuel. I did pull the tank for a cleaning
              > > one time but it was pretty clean when I did it. My 2 cents, don't
              > > add anything.
              > >
              > > John
              > >
              > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, John Power <sailingmaster@>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Sounds good. I will check it. Im just wondering why it will run
              > > fine for 10-20 mins, then the rpms get funky, then it goes away.
              > > > Seems to me if there was an air leak like you describe, it would
              > > show up as soon as the engine started. Still I amgoing to follow
              > > your advice....
              > > >
              > > > I am goingt toand check my foredeck too. My surveyor completely
              > > missed a spot at the starboard chainplate. That will be my upside
              > > down project later this summer since I am already in the water,
              > > luckily I think I found it early and i can probably use a dremel or
              > > fein sander and dig out between the glass layers of the deck and
              > > pack glass in there to restore the integrity of the area and block
              > > out furthe water penetration. I plan on removing everything this
              > > winter, drying out the core as much as possible with some acetone
              > > and rebedding, hoping to avoid the whole re core issue as long as
              > > possible
              > > >
              > > > Thanks for the advice.
              > > >
              > > > JP
              > > >
              > > > On Jun 01, 2011, at 01:09 PM, John <jfws88@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > JP, my guess is you have a very small air leak in the fuel system
              > > that is closing up with thermal expansion. I'd double check all the
              > > hose clamps on the fuel lines and take out and clean or at least
              > > tighten the bleed screw on the top of the primary filter.
              > > > If the filter was the problem it wouldn't go away with temperature
              > > and would get worst as you loaded the moter or rev'ed it up.
              > > >
              > > > John
              > > >
              > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > This is my first experience with a diesel inboard so Im learning
              > > as I go.
              > > > > From what I understand a little reg maintenance and they are
              > > pretty headache free....so here goes.
              > > > >
              > > > > Often, but not always within the first 15-30 mins of running the
              > > diesel on my boat, the engine rpms will fluctuate. The problem will
              > > last a minute or two, then it seems to go away.
              > > > > I originally thought it might have had something to do with cold
              > > weather, but it continues now as the temps are up in the 80s. How
              > > concerned should I be?
              > > > >
              > > > > I would think this might be a sign of air or water in the fuel,
              > > but that doesnt explain how it ceases after the engine has been
              > > running. When I bought the boat, I put on all new filters and had
              > > the fuel tank drained, cleaned and replaced with fresh diesel. It
              > > has been treated at each fill up with algicide and fuel stablilizer.
              > > > >
              > > > > The other thing I think I need to do, is to change the primary
              > > fuel filter. I have the old style and cannot see when water has
              > > accumulated in the bowl and can only drain it by taking the whole
              > > thing apart. Any advice on replacing this. Current and commercial
              > > traffic are issues where I sail, so knowing that my engine is going
              > > to run is important to my anal retentive peace of mind.
              > > > >
              > > > > I dont know if I am worried about nothing. The engine seems to
              > > run fine after that first half hour,and is amazingly quiet and smooth.
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks in advance for the info!
              > > > >
              > > > > JP
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • John
              Jason, Thats Ok we can disagree and I do believe that some additives are good. My information comes from a guy at Mack boring about my boat and from a friend
              Message 5 of 30 , Jun 2, 2011
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                Jason, Thats Ok we can disagree and I do believe that some additives are good. My information comes from a guy at Mack boring about my boat and from a friend who runs a big sport fishing boat w/monster diesels.

                You are correct about the fuel usage but more importantly how often the fuel gets turned over at the source. Diesel that's been sitting in a tank all winter at a recreational marina is certainly going to have more crap in it than a commerical fuel dock. (they love us sailors with our 12 gallon tanks)

                My point about additives is theres a lot of them out there and they don't always compliment each other when mixing them. And there are specific amounts that get added per tank size so you need to be careful.

                I also agree we need more information from JP

                John

                --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Jason Smith <jason3317@...> wrote:
                >
                > Jo
                > I have to respectfully (but strongly) disagree here. The use of a biocide
                > and select other additives are widely accepted practices that should have
                > zero effect on the operation of a diesel. The size of the tank really is
                > not the determining factor, but it is how often you go through the fuel!
                > The diesel "bug" can grow in a mason jar, given the proper conditions. In
                > the proper concentrations, I can't imagine a problem. Yanmar specifically
                > recommends the use of FPPF products (I use the lubricity additive, plus a
                > biocide).
                >
                > It's hard to diagnose these problems. I think we need more info from JP:
                >
                > What RPM does this happen? Or, at all RPMs?
                > Can you hear the engine sound change, or is it just the RPM (trying to
                > eliminate a sender, or loose wiring problem)
                > Any obvious loss of power?
                > Any pinging / ticking noise?
                > Did this just start happening, or has been present since you took
                > possession.
                > What size prop? And can you reach max RPM
                >
                > I am wondering if there is a minor, minor air leak at the Racor that is
                > allowing fuel to drain back prior to start up (there is enough fuel in the
                > secondary filter and HP pump to start the motor).
                >
                > Check the big bolt at the top of the Racor and make sure it is tight, double
                > check the plastic water drain screw...even a 1/4 turn can make a difference)
                >
                > Jason
                >
                > On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 9:37 PM, John <jfws88@...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > JP, A couple of things I missed in your first post, the engine runs fine
                > > for some time and then starts to fluxuate? That doesn't sound like air any
                > > more (but check it anyway). It may have something to do with the additives.
                > >
                > > BTW, I never put anything other than fuel in my tank. These tanks are 12
                > > gallons, very small by most standards. Deisal fuel additives are really
                > > meant for LARGE fuel tanks where there is a lot of surface area for stuff to
                > > grow. I've owned my boat for eight years and never had an issue with fuel. I
                > > did pull the tank for a cleaning one time but it was pretty clean when I did
                > > it. My 2 cents, don't add anything.
                > >
                > > John
                > >
                > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, John Power <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Sounds good. I will check it. Im just wondering why it will run fine for
                > > 10-20 mins, then the rpms get funky, then it goes away.
                > > > Seems to me if there was an air leak like you describe, it would show up
                > > as soon as the engine started. Still I amgoing to follow your advice....
                > > >
                > > > I am goingt toand check my foredeck too. My surveyor completely missed a
                > > spot at the starboard chainplate. That will be my upside down project later
                > > this summer since I am already in the water, luckily I think I found it
                > > early and i can probably use a dremel or fein sander and dig out between the
                > > glass layers of the deck and pack glass in there to restore the integrity of
                > > the area and block out furthe water penetration. I plan on removing
                > > everything this winter, drying out the core as much as possible with some
                > > acetone and rebedding, hoping to avoid the whole re core issue as long as
                > > possible
                > > >
                > > > Thanks for the advice.
                > > >
                > > > JP
                > > >
                > > > On Jun 01, 2011, at 01:09 PM, John <jfws88@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > JP, my guess is you have a very small air leak in the fuel system that is
                > > closing up with thermal expansion. I'd double check all the hose clamps on
                > > the fuel lines and take out and clean or at least tighten the bleed screw on
                > > the top of the primary filter.
                > > > If the filter was the problem it wouldn't go away with temperature and
                > > would get worst as you loaded the moter or rev'ed it up.
                > > >
                > > > John
                > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > This is my first experience with a diesel inboard so Im learning as I
                > > go.
                > > > > From what I understand a little reg maintenance and they are pretty
                > > headache free....so here goes.
                > > > >
                > > > > Often, but not always within the first 15-30 mins of running the diesel
                > > on my boat, the engine rpms will fluctuate. The problem will last a minute
                > > or two, then it seems to go away.
                > > > > I originally thought it might have had something to do with cold
                > > weather, but it continues now as the temps are up in the 80s. How concerned
                > > should I be?
                > > > >
                > > > > I would think this might be a sign of air or water in the fuel, but
                > > that doesnt explain how it ceases after the engine has been running. When I
                > > bought the boat, I put on all new filters and had the fuel tank drained,
                > > cleaned and replaced with fresh diesel. It has been treated at each fill up
                > > with algicide and fuel stablilizer.
                > > > >
                > > > > The other thing I think I need to do, is to change the primary fuel
                > > filter. I have the old style and cannot see when water has accumulated in
                > > the bowl and can only drain it by taking the whole thing apart. Any advice
                > > on replacing this. Current and commercial traffic are issues where I sail,
                > > so knowing that my engine is going to run is important to my anal retentive
                > > peace of mind.
                > > > >
                > > > > I dont know if I am worried about nothing. The engine seems to run fine
                > > after that first half hour,and is amazingly quiet and smooth.
                > > > >
                > > > > Thanks in advance for the info!
                > > > >
                > > > > JP
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Reply to sender<jfws88@...?subject=Re%3A%20Diesel%20questions%20continued>| Reply
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              • john power
                Thanks to all for the help. I am going to check the fuel lines and bleed screws for air leaks this week. The yard cleaned my fuel tank and changed all the
                Message 6 of 30 , Jun 2, 2011
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                  Thanks to all for the help. I am going to check the fuel lines and bleed screws for air leaks this week. The yard cleaned my fuel tank and changed all the filters for me this year so it make sense to start here.

                  Here is the other information and answers to questions that maybe pertinent to my rpm issue...

                  The Rpms fluctate at different engine speeds. It happens when the engine is idling as well as running under load. It usually happens once the engine has been running for 10 mins or so, only once did it occur immediately after start up (I assumed then it was due to cold weather) It will happen for a minute or two, and then the engine seems to fun fine afterwards, for hours (we ran all the way from Newport to Bridgeport motorsailing on the delivery and after some initial fluctuation in the early am, the engine ran all day)

                  It happens regardless of the sea condition. It happens at the dock and when underway, in calm water and in waves.

                  The fuel in the tank is all new and clean as are the filters.

                  The boat is most assuredly over proped. There is a fixed 3 blade 14 pitch prop on there. I believer the original/reccommeded prop is a martec 9 pitch. I cannot reach max rpms, the engine tops out around 2800 and if pushed harder black smoke appears, which, as I understand it, a sign of wrong prop size.  The old owners used the engine only to get on and off the mooring, so probably never noticed any of the issues I am describing. If I run the engine at 2500,
                  it is very quiet and smooth and the boat moves at just under 7knts.  

                  I have been very careful to ad the correct amounts of fuel additives, and keep my tank topped off to avoid condensation/algae build up.

                  IN terms of the prop, whether its related to my rpm flucuation or not, i would be curious as to what the correct size and pitch is supposed to be. I had a line on a used flding prop from a j30 (same engine, transmission, and displacement) It was a folding prop 9P from michigan wheel in great shape. It is supposed to go on a 3/4 inch shaft, but I believe my boat has a 1 inch shaft...then again, my surveyor was wrong about just about everything so this could be and error too.

                  Oh and yes, I have SEA TOW with unlimited towing. I learned this the hard way when I got stranded at the Canal!

                  Any thoughts or advice is appreciated. Im sailing on long island sound and wil be in Mystic on JULY 4 weekend if anyone wants to rendezvous and compare notes.
                  There is another j28 in Black Rock Harbore  "le soleil" but i have never heard the owner post here.



                  JP
                  On Jun 2, 2011, at 9:53 AM, John wrote:

                  Jason, Thats Ok we can disagree and I do believe that some additives are good. My information comes from a guy at Mack boring about my boat and from a friend who runs a big sport fishing boat w/monster diesels. 

                  You are correct about the fuel usage but more importantly how often the fuel gets turned over at the source. Diesel that's been sitting in a tank all winter at a recreational marina is certainly going to have more crap in it than a commerical fuel dock. (they love us sailors with our 12 gallon tanks)

                  My point about additives is theres a lot of them out there and they don't always compliment each other when mixing them. And there are specific amounts that get added per tank size so you need to be careful.

                  I also agree we need more information from JP

                  John

                  --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Jason Smith <jason3317@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Jo
                  > I have to respectfully (but strongly) disagree here. The use of a biocide
                  > and select other additives are widely accepted practices that should have
                  > zero effect on the operation of a diesel. The size of the tank really is
                  > not the determining factor, but it is how often you go through the fuel!
                  > The diesel "bug" can grow in a mason jar, given the proper conditions. In
                  > the proper concentrations, I can't imagine a problem. Yanmar specifically
                  > recommends the use of FPPF products (I use the lubricity additive, plus a
                  > biocide).
                  > 
                  > It's hard to diagnose these problems. I think we need more info from JP:
                  > 
                  > What RPM does this happen? Or, at all RPMs?
                  > Can you hear the engine sound change, or is it just the RPM (trying to
                  > eliminate a sender, or loose wiring problem)
                  > Any obvious loss of power?
                  > Any pinging / ticking noise?
                  > Did this just start happening, or has been present since you took
                  > possession.
                  > What size prop? And can you reach max RPM
                  > 
                  > I am wondering if there is a minor, minor air leak at the Racor that is
                  > allowing fuel to drain back prior to start up (there is enough fuel in the
                  > secondary filter and HP pump to start the motor).
                  > 
                  > Check the big bolt at the top of the Racor and make sure it is tight, double
                  > check the plastic water drain screw...even a 1/4 turn can make a difference)
                  > 
                  > Jason
                  > 
                  > On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 9:37 PM, John <jfws88@...> wrote:
                  > 
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > JP, A couple of things I missed in your first post, the engine runs fine
                  > > for some time and then starts to fluxuate? That doesn't sound like air any
                  > > more (but check it anyway). It may have something to do with the additives.
                  > >
                  > > BTW, I never put anything other than fuel in my tank. These tanks are 12
                  > > gallons, very small by most standards. Deisal fuel additives are really
                  > > meant for LARGE fuel tanks where there is a lot of surface area for stuff to
                  > > grow. I've owned my boat for eight years and never had an issue with fuel. I
                  > > did pull the tank for a cleaning one time but it was pretty clean when I did
                  > > it. My 2 cents, don't add anything.
                  > >
                  > > John
                  > >
                  > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, John Power <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Sounds good. I will check it. Im just wondering why it will run fine for
                  > > 10-20 mins, then the rpms get funky, then it goes away.
                  > > > Seems to me if there was an air leak like you describe, it would show up
                  > > as soon as the engine started. Still I amgoing to follow your advice....
                  > > >
                  > > > I am goingt toand check my foredeck too. My surveyor completely missed a
                  > > spot at the starboard chainplate. That will be my upside down project later
                  > > this summer since I am already in the water, luckily I think I found it
                  > > early and i can probably use a dremel or fein sander and dig out between the
                  > > glass layers of the deck and pack glass in there to restore the integrity of
                  > > the area and block out furthe water penetration. I plan on removing
                  > > everything this winter, drying out the core as much as possible with some
                  > > acetone and rebedding, hoping to avoid the whole re core issue as long as
                  > > possible
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks for the advice.
                  > > >
                  > > > JP
                  > > >
                  > > > On Jun 01, 2011, at 01:09 PM, John <jfws88@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > JP, my guess is you have a very small air leak in the fuel system that is
                  > > closing up with thermal expansion. I'd double check all the hose clamps on
                  > > the fuel lines and take out and clean or at least tighten the bleed screw on
                  > > the top of the primary filter.
                  > > > If the filter was the problem it wouldn't go away with temperature and
                  > > would get worst as you loaded the moter or rev'ed it up.
                  > > >
                  > > > John
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > This is my first experience with a diesel inboard so Im learning as I
                  > > go.
                  > > > > From what I understand a little reg maintenance and they are pretty
                  > > headache free....so here goes.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Often, but not always within the first 15-30 mins of running the diesel
                  > > on my boat, the engine rpms will fluctuate. The problem will last a minute
                  > > or two, then it seems to go away.
                  > > > > I originally thought it might have had something to do with cold
                  > > weather, but it continues now as the temps are up in the 80s. How concerned
                  > > should I be?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I would think this might be a sign of air or water in the fuel, but
                  > > that doesnt explain how it ceases after the engine has been running. When I
                  > > bought the boat, I put on all new filters and had the fuel tank drained,
                  > > cleaned and replaced with fresh diesel. It has been treated at each fill up
                  > > with algicide and fuel stablilizer.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The other thing I think I need to do, is to change the primary fuel
                  > > filter. I have the old style and cannot see when water has accumulated in
                  > > the bowl and can only drain it by taking the whole thing apart. Any advice
                  > > on replacing this. Current and commercial traffic are issues where I sail,
                  > > so knowing that my engine is going to run is important to my anal retentive
                  > > peace of mind.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I dont know if I am worried about nothing. The engine seems to run fine
                  > > after that first half hour,and is amazingly quiet and smooth.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thanks in advance for the info!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > JP
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > 
                  > > Reply to sender<jfws88@...?subject=Re%3A%20Diesel%20questions%20continued>| Reply
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                • John Power
                  Thanks again,  Your diagnosis seems to have been correct!  It made sense as I had the yard clean the fuel tank and change all the filters. I tightened
                  Message 7 of 30 , Jun 15, 2011
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                    Thanks again, 

                    Your diagnosis seems to have been correct!  It made sense as I had the yard clean the fuel tank and change all the filters.
                    I tightened everything up and the boat has ran fine for the past couple weekends...I am amazed at how well this engine runs given that its 25years old.

                    Thanks for the help, now to find someone to do the rudder bearing again!

                    JP

                    On Jun 01, 2011, at 01:09 PM, John <jfws88@...> wrote:

                     

                    JP, my guess is you have a very small air leak in the fuel system that is closing up with thermal expansion. I'd double check all the hose clamps on the fuel lines and take out and clean or at least tighten the bleed screw on the top of the primary filter.
                    If the filter was the problem it wouldn't go away with temperature and would get worst as you loaded the moter or rev'ed it up.

                    John

                    --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > This is my first experience with a diesel inboard so Im learning as I go.
                    > From what I understand a little reg maintenance and they are pretty headache free....so here goes.
                    >
                    > Often, but not always within the first 15-30 mins of running the diesel on my boat, the engine rpms will fluctuate. The problem will last a minute or two, then it seems to go away.
                    > I originally thought it might have had something to do with cold weather, but it continues now as the temps are up in the 80s. How concerned should I be?
                    >
                    > I would think this might be a sign of air or water in the fuel, but that doesnt explain how it ceases after the engine has been running When I bought the boat, I put on all new filters and had the fuel tank drained, cleaned and replaced with fresh diesel. It has been treated at each fill up with algicide and fuel stablilizer.
                    >
                    > The other thing I think I need to do, is to change the primary fuel filter. I have the old style and cannot see when water has accumulated in the bowl and can only drain it by taking the whole thing apart. Any advice on replacing this. Current and commercial traffic are issues where I sail, so knowing that my engine is going to run is important to my anal retentive peace of mind.
                    >
                    > I dont know if I am worried about nothing. The engine seems to run fine after that first half hour,and is amazingly quiet and smooth.
                    >
                    > Thanks in advance for the info!
                    >
                    > JP
                    >

                  • John
                    I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group. I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The
                    Message 8 of 30 , Nov 15, 2012
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                      I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.

                      I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.

                      Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.

                      I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.

                      I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..

                      Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?

                      I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..

                      Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water

                      Where should I start?

                      Thanks in advance and happy winter

                      JP
                    • wjmfoster
                      John, I m no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will,
                      Message 9 of 30 , Nov 16, 2012
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                        John,

                        I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.

                        • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                        • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)

                        First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                        Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?

                        Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.

                        If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.

                        When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.

                        Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?

                        Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.

                        What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?

                        Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.

                        After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.

                        Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.

                        A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.

                        Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?

                        I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.

                        Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.

                        What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.

                        I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.

                        Bill







                        --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                        >
                        > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                        >
                        > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                        >
                        > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                        >
                        > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                        >
                        > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                        >
                        > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                        >
                        > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                        >
                        > Where should I start?
                        >
                        > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                        >
                        > JP
                        >
                      • John
                        John, my two cent and advice. I used to pressure test radiatirs all the time to find the leaks. There is a simple pump set-up you can get at a auto parts
                        Message 10 of 30 , Nov 16, 2012
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                          John, my two cent and advice. I used to pressure test radiatirs all the time to find the leaks. There is a simple pump set-up you can get at a auto parts store. My guess is you'll find a small leak in the heat exchanger and small amounts of engine coolant are going out with the raw water. It doesn't sound like you ever get to a temp that would boil the water never mind the coolant.

                          Regarding the soot stains on the transom I get them too. Ther're a PIA to get off.

                          --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > John,
                          >
                          > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                          >
                          > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                          > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                          >
                          > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                          > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                          >
                          > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                          >
                          > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                          >
                          > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                          >
                          > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                          >
                          > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                          >
                          > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                          >
                          > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                          >
                          > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                          >
                          > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                          >
                          > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                          >
                          > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                          >
                          > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                          >
                          > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                          >
                          > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                          >
                          > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                          >
                          > Bill
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                          > >
                          > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                          > >
                          > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                          > >
                          > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                          > >
                          > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                          > >
                          > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                          > >
                          > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                          > >
                          > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                          > >
                          > > Where should I start?
                          > >
                          > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                          > >
                          > > JP
                          > >
                          >
                        • john power
                          I thnk I can live with that! As long as not a head gasket....I dunno how accurate the temp guage is, the engine gets pretty warm, but runs perfect. One other
                          Message 11 of 30 , Nov 16, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I thnk I can live with that!  As long as not a head gasket....I dunno how accurate the temp guage is, the engine gets pretty warm, but runs perfect.

                            One other thing I forgot was the fact that i have not hot water heater, but i still have the hoses that run to it (looped) i could be losing coolant there.

                            I topped of the tank last spring, but the reservoir was empty..in the fall the reservoir was full and the tank empty....a mystery to be sure.

                            No brown or bubbly oil, but i do seem to burn a good amount during the season...how about you? thoughts?

                            Maybe I should ditch the diesel and get oars!

                            JP
                            On Nov 16, 2012, at 4:33 PM, John wrote:

                             

                            John, my two cent and advice. I used to pressure test radiatirs all the time to find the leaks. There is a simple pump set-up you can get at a auto parts store. My guess is you'll find a small leak in the heat exchanger and small amounts of engine coolant are going out with the raw water. It doesn't sound like you ever get to a temp that would boil the water never mind the coolant.

                            Regarding the soot stains on the transom I get them too. Ther're a PIA to get off.

                            --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > John,
                            >
                            > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                            >
                            > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                            > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                            >
                            > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                            > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                            >
                            > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                            >
                            > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                            >
                            > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                            >
                            > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                            >
                            > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                            >
                            > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                            >
                            > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                            >
                            > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                            >
                            > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                            >
                            > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                            >
                            > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                            >
                            > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                            >
                            > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                            >
                            > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                            >
                            > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                            >
                            > Bill
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                            > >
                            > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                            > >
                            > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                            > >
                            > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                            > >
                            > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                            > >
                            > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                            > >
                            > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                            > >
                            > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                            > >
                            > > Where should I start?
                            > >
                            > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                            > >
                            > > JP
                            > >
                            >


                          • Kurt
                            Hi John, Are you sure the hose to the overflow is not clogged? That would prevent the heat exchanger from pulling the anti freeze back into itself from the
                            Message 12 of 30 , Nov 16, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi John,

                              Are you sure the hose to the overflow is not clogged? That would prevent the heat exchanger from pulling the anti freeze back into itself from the overflow as it cools. Also, if you feel your hot water heater is potentially leaking I would check into it very soon. Having anti-freeze leaking into your fresh water is not the best thing for your health.

                              The soot on the transom is completely normal and as a previous poster said it is a PIA to clean off. If you look on the Photo page under my boat (Evangeline II) at the picture titled Evangeline II in Nantucket you can see the result. The amount of soot you see there was just from motoring through the Cape Cod Canal and across Buzzards Bay or maybe 4 hours worth.

                              Kurt

                              --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I thnk I can live with that! As long as not a head gasket....I dunno
                              > how accurate the temp guage is, the engine gets pretty warm, but runs
                              > perfect.
                              >
                              > One other thing I forgot was the fact that i have not hot water
                              > heater, but i still have the hoses that run to it (looped) i could be
                              > losing coolant there.
                              >
                              > I topped of the tank last spring, but the reservoir was empty..in the
                              > fall the reservoir was full and the tank empty....a mystery to be sure.
                              >
                              > No brown or bubbly oil, but i do seem to burn a good amount during the
                              > season...how about you? thoughts?
                              >
                              > Maybe I should ditch the diesel and get oars!
                              >
                              > JP
                              > On Nov 16, 2012, at 4:33 PM, John wrote:
                              >
                              > > John, my two cent and advice. I used to pressure test radiatirs all
                              > > the time to find the leaks. There is a simple pump set-up you can
                              > > get at a auto parts store. My guess is you'll find a small leak in
                              > > the heat exchanger and small amounts of engine coolant are going out
                              > > with the raw water. It doesn't sound like you ever get to a temp
                              > > that would boil the water never mind the coolant.
                              > >
                              > > Regarding the soot stains on the transom I get them too. Ther're a
                              > > PIA to get off.
                              > >
                              > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > John,
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own
                              > > maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts
                              > > first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                              > > >
                              > > > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated
                              > > expensive potential problems.
                              > > > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following
                              > > this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                              > > >
                              > > > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this
                              > > past spring?
                              > > > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                              > > >
                              > > > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                              > > >
                              > > > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't
                              > > recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I
                              > > would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank
                              > > for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the
                              > > situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you
                              > > do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I
                              > > know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now
                              > > over the winter.
                              > > >
                              > > > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely
                              > > after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind
                              > > the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you
                              > > check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait
                              > > for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare
                              > > levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high
                              > > temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as
                              > > the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have
                              > > been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and
                              > > permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any
                              > > harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                              > > >
                              > > > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant
                              > > is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed?
                              > > There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you
                              > > accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the
                              > > bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift
                              > > pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water
                              > > heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                              > > >
                              > > > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is
                              > > coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort
                              > > that would have noticed and commented.
                              > > >
                              > > > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if
                              > > you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been
                              > > something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the
                              > > drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the
                              > > bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                              > > >
                              > > > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy
                              > > place to start. It can be replaced.
                              > > >
                              > > > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about
                              > > a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the
                              > > tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater
                              > > via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                              > > >
                              > > > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant
                              > > consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is
                              > > nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see
                              > > white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very
                              > > tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use
                              > > your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible
                              > > steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to
                              > > make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again,
                              > > after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                              > > >
                              > > > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate
                              > > causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                              > > >
                              > > > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my
                              > > boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree
                              > > the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400
                              > > rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it
                              > > sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec
                              > > elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in
                              > > what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do
                              > > you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What
                              > > speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                              > > >
                              > > > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above
                              > > 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still
                              > > have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my
                              > > engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine
                              > > pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the
                              > > fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine
                              > > even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the
                              > > problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she
                              > > would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-
                              > > burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope
                              > > to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                              > > >
                              > > > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might
                              > > consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down,
                              > > common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram
                              > > more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and
                              > > the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time,
                              > > and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up
                              > > rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be
                              > > exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine,
                              > > temporarily.
                              > > >
                              > > > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend
                              > > to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is
                              > > white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on
                              > > your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind
                              > > that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number
                              > > of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up
                              > > that is the source.
                              > > >
                              > > > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                              > > >
                              > > > Bill
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti
                              > > freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but
                              > > there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up
                              > > more than 120 degrees.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some
                              > > coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the
                              > > coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the
                              > > transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another
                              > > possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the
                              > > case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to
                              > > conclusions..
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could
                              > > not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black
                              > > smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and
                              > > the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and
                              > > there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does
                              > > however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil)
                              > > although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov
                              > > 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days
                              > > per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of
                              > > this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the
                              > > hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the
                              > > coolant..
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or
                              > > water
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Where should I start?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                              > > > >
                              > > > > JP
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • mcclurejsteven
                              Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the
                              Message 13 of 30 , Apr 18, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.

                                Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!

                                Thanks,

                                Steve

                                --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > John,
                                >
                                > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                                >
                                > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                                > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                                >
                                > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                                > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                                >
                                > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                                >
                                > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                                >
                                > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                                >
                                > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                                >
                                > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                                >
                                > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                                >
                                > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                                >
                                > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                                >
                                > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                                >
                                > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                                >
                                > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                                >
                                > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                                >
                                > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                                >
                                > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                                >
                                > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                                >
                                > Bill
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                                > >
                                > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                                > >
                                > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                                > >
                                > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                                > >
                                > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                                > >
                                > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                                > >
                                > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                                > >
                                > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                                > >
                                > > Where should I start?
                                > >
                                > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                                > >
                                > > JP
                                > >
                                >
                              • Hans Andersen
                                Hi Steve I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad Check after each for water in the exhurst Hans Last Dance Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                                Message 14 of 30 , Apr 18, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Steve 
                                  I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                                  Check after each for water in the exhurst
                                  Hans
                                  "Last Dance"

                                  Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen


                                  On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:

                                   

                                  Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.

                                  Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!

                                  Thanks,

                                  Steve

                                  --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > John,
                                  >
                                  > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                                  >
                                  > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                                  > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                                  >
                                  > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                                  > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                                  >
                                  > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                                  >
                                  > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                                  >
                                  > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                                  >
                                  > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                                  >
                                  > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                                  >
                                  > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                                  >
                                  > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                                  >
                                  > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                                  >
                                  > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                                  >
                                  > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                                  >
                                  > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                                  >
                                  > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                                  >
                                  > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                                  >
                                  > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                                  >
                                  > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                                  >
                                  > Bill
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                                  > >
                                  > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                                  > >
                                  > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                                  > >
                                  > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                                  > >
                                  > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                                  > >
                                  > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                                  > >
                                  > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                                  > >
                                  > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                                  > >
                                  > > Where should I start?
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                                  > >
                                  > > JP
                                  > >
                                  >

                                • David Hastings
                                  Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket
                                  Message 15 of 30 , Apr 18, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.

                                    Sent from my iPad

                                    David L. Hastings
                                    5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                                    Crystal River, FL 34429
                                    Home: 352-794-6440
                                    Cell: 315-345-2078

                                    On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    Hi Steve 
                                    I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                                    Check after each for water in the exhurst
                                    Hans
                                    "Last Dance"

                                    Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen


                                    On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.

                                    Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!

                                    Thanks,

                                    Steve

                                    --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > John,
                                    >
                                    > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                                    >
                                    > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                                    > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                                    >
                                    > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                                    > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                                    >
                                    > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                                    >
                                    > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                                    >
                                    > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                                    >
                                    > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                                    >
                                    > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                                    >
                                    > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                                    >
                                    > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                                    >
                                    > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                                    >
                                    > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                                    >
                                    > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                                    >
                                    > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                                    >
                                    > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                                    >
                                    > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                                    >
                                    > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                                    >
                                    > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                                    >
                                    > Bill
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                                    > >
                                    > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                                    > >
                                    > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                                    > >
                                    > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                                    > >
                                    > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                                    > >
                                    > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                                    > >
                                    > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                                    > >
                                    > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                                    > >
                                    > > Where should I start?
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                                    > >
                                    > > JP
                                    > >
                                    >



                                    ____________________________________________________________
                                    "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
                                    Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
                                    topwrinklecreamguide.com
                                  • jhoagg123
                                    I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when
                                    Message 16 of 30 , Apr 18, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.

                                      --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
                                      >
                                      > Sent from my iPad
                                      >
                                      > David L. Hastings
                                      > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                                      > Crystal River, FL 34429
                                      > Home: 352-794-6440
                                      > Cell: 315-345-2078
                                      >
                                      > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Hi Steve
                                      > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                                      > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                                      > > Hans
                                      > > "Last Dance"
                                      > >
                                      > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Thanks,
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Steve
                                      > >>
                                      > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > John,
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                                      > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                                      > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > Bill
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                                      > >> > >
                                      > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                                      > >> > >
                                      > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                                      > >> > >
                                      > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                                      > >> > >
                                      > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                                      > >> > >
                                      > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                                      > >> > >
                                      > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                                      > >> > >
                                      > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                                      > >> > >
                                      > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                                      > >> > >
                                      > >> > > Where should I start?
                                      > >> > >
                                      > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                                      > >> > >
                                      > >> > > JP
                                      > >> > >
                                      > >> >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ____________________________________________________________
                                      > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
                                      > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
                                      > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
                                      >
                                    • Roy Briscoe
                                      Also, make sure the belt isn t slipping on the pulley because it is loose. I had to retighten my belt twice a year because the bracket kept slipping. To:
                                      Message 17 of 30 , Apr 18, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Also, make sure the belt isn't slipping on the pulley because it is loose. I had to retighten my belt twice a year because the bracket kept slipping.
                                         

                                        To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: jhoagg123@...
                                        Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 00:00:47 +0000
                                        Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: Diesel questions - No cooling water discharge

                                         
                                        I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.

                                        --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
                                        >
                                        > Sent from my iPad
                                        >
                                        > David L. Hastings
                                        > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                                        > Crystal River, FL 34429
                                        > Home: 352-794-6440
                                        > Cell: 315-345-2078
                                        >
                                        > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Hi Steve
                                        > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                                        > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                                        > > Hans
                                        > > "Last Dance"
                                        > >
                                        > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Thanks,
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Steve
                                        > >>
                                        > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > John,
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                                        > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                                        > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > Bill
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> > > Where should I start?
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> > > JP
                                        > >> > >
                                        > >> >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > __________________________________________________________
                                        > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
                                        > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
                                        > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
                                        >


                                      • mcclurejsteven
                                        Thanks all, we will have a look and keep you posted.
                                        Message 18 of 30 , Apr 18, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Thanks all, we will have a look and keep you posted.

                                          --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
                                          >
                                          > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
                                          > >
                                          > > Sent from my iPad
                                          > >
                                          > > David L. Hastings
                                          > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                                          > > Crystal River, FL 34429
                                          > > Home: 352-794-6440
                                          > > Cell: 315-345-2078
                                          > >
                                          > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > > Hi Steve
                                          > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                                          > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                                          > > > Hans
                                          > > > "Last Dance"
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Thanks,
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Steve
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > John,
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                                          > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                                          > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > Bill
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > Where should I start?
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> > > JP
                                          > > >> > >
                                          > > >> >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ____________________________________________________________
                                          > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
                                          > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
                                          > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Tom Quinlan
                                          If the pump and impeller are OK, check the mixing elbow on the exhaust This tends to corrode over time I m here on the gulf coast, too - Pontchartrain Yacht
                                          Message 19 of 30 , Apr 19, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            If the pump and impeller are OK, check the mixing elbow on the exhaust 
                                            This tends to corrode over time
                                            I'm here on the gulf coast, too - Pontchartrain Yacht Club and have recently this problem

                                            Sent from my iPhone

                                            On Apr 18, 2013, at 9:20 PM, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:

                                             

                                            Thanks all, we will have a look and keep you posted.

                                            --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
                                            >
                                            > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
                                            > >
                                            > > Sent from my iPad
                                            > >
                                            > > David L. Hastings
                                            > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                                            > > Crystal River, FL 34429
                                            > > Home: 352-794-6440
                                            > > Cell: 315-345-2078
                                            > >
                                            > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > > Hi Steve
                                            > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                                            > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                                            > > > Hans
                                            > > > "Last Dance"
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> Thanks,
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> Steve
                                            > > >>
                                            > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > John,
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                                            > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                                            > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > Bill
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                                            > > >> > >
                                            > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                                            > > >> > >
                                            > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                                            > > >> > >
                                            > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                                            > > >> > >
                                            > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                                            > > >> > >
                                            > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                                            > > >> > >
                                            > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                                            > > >> > >
                                            > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                                            > > >> > >
                                            > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                                            > > >> > >
                                            > > >> > > Where should I start?
                                            > > >> > >
                                            > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                                            > > >> > >
                                            > > >> > > JP
                                            > > >> > >
                                            > > >> >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > __________________________________________________________
                                            > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
                                            > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
                                            > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
                                            > >
                                            >

                                          • thistle4002
                                            Apologies for the quality... I had to use my phone as my camera is missing (maybe ill find it when I clean out the bassement and all the sailing gear!) These
                                            Message 20 of 30 , Apr 19, 2013
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Apologies for the quality... I had to use my phone as my camera is missing (maybe ill find it when I clean out the bassement and all the sailing gear!)

                                              These are some photos of my deck recore for those that are interested.   Not too difficult a project, but time consuming and MESSY.
                                              The best part is that I know my decks are much drier than my sureveyor had indicated based on his moisture meter.
                                              I had serious rot around both chainplates for a little more than one square foot, but the moisture when double that.  No way that would dry out but the "simple fix of drilling, drying and filling.  I should not say moisture
                                              as much as SOAKED.  Once the glas was removed. The decay was easily removed and the rest dried very quickly.  I started the "easy way" and just marred my decks on the stbd side.  This is the way to go.

                                              My next adventure is to figure out how to build a chainplate island, although there is so much epoxy below now that even it water gets inagain it cant ger very far.

                                              David Hasting of FL took the time to write me a detailed explanation of how to do this (except if anyone knows how to get the port cabinet out without a sawzall please let me know...working inside there is "interesting") 
                                              I can send a copy of his email and some helpful links if anyone else is abut to start this project

                                              Ill post more pics soon.

                                              JP
                                              On Apr 19, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Tom Quinlan wrote:

                                               

                                              If the pump and impeller are OK, check the mixing elbow on the exhaust 
                                              This tends to corrode over time
                                              I'm here on the gulf coast, too - Pontchartrain Yacht Club and have recently this problem

                                              Sent from my iPhone

                                              On Apr 18, 2013, at 9:20 PM, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:

                                               

                                              Thanks all, we will have a look and keep you posted.

                                              --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
                                              >
                                              > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
                                              > >
                                              > > Sent from my iPad
                                              > >
                                              > > David L. Hastings
                                              > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                                              > > Crystal River, FL 34429
                                              > > Home: 352-794-6440
                                              > > Cell: 315-345-2078
                                              > >
                                              > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > > Hi Steve
                                              > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                                              > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                                              > > > Hans
                                              > > > "Last Dance"
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >> Thanks,
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >> Steve
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > John,
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                                              > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                                              > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > Bill
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                                              > > >> > >
                                              > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                                              > > >> > >
                                              > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                                              > > >> > >
                                              > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                                              > > >> > >
                                              > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                                              > > >> > >
                                              > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                                              > > >> > >
                                              > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                                              > > >> > >
                                              > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                                              > > >> > >
                                              > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                                              > > >> > >
                                              > > >> > > Where should I start?
                                              > > >> > >
                                              > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                                              > > >> > >
                                              > > >> > > JP
                                              > > >> > >
                                              > > >> >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > __________________________________________________________
                                              > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
                                              > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
                                              > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
                                              > >
                                              >



                                            • mcclurejsteven
                                              Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course, ours doesn t look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove the bracket and turn the
                                              Message 21 of 30 , Apr 19, 2013
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course, ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or ideas?

                                                Thanks,

                                                Steve

                                                --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
                                                >
                                                > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
                                                > >
                                                > > Sent from my iPad
                                                > >
                                                > > David L. Hastings
                                                > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                                                > > Crystal River, FL 34429
                                                > > Home: 352-794-6440
                                                > > Cell: 315-345-2078
                                                > >
                                                > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > > Hi Steve
                                                > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                                                > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                                                > > > Hans
                                                > > > "Last Dance"
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > >>
                                                > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
                                                > > >>
                                                > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                                                > > >>
                                                > > >> Thanks,
                                                > > >>
                                                > > >> Steve
                                                > > >>
                                                > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > John,
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                                                > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                                                > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > Bill
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                                                > > >> > >
                                                > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                                                > > >> > >
                                                > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                                                > > >> > >
                                                > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                                                > > >> > >
                                                > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                                                > > >> > >
                                                > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                                                > > >> > >
                                                > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                                                > > >> > >
                                                > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                                                > > >> > >
                                                > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                                                > > >> > >
                                                > > >> > > Where should I start?
                                                > > >> > >
                                                > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                                                > > >> > >
                                                > > >> > > JP
                                                > > >> > >
                                                > > >> >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > ____________________________________________________________
                                                > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
                                                > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
                                                > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • thistle4002
                                                I am a beginner at this....but i change my impeller every year just on principle. ..... I would double check the hoses and clamps running to and from the water
                                                Message 22 of 30 , Apr 19, 2013
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  I am a beginner at this....but i change my impeller every year just on principle. .....

                                                  I would double check the hoses and clamps running to and from the water pump first.  If you have not change the Impeller in a few seasons, you might have created a leak there when u changed the impeller.
                                                  IF fhat does not solve your problem. The broken off blades of the old impeller may be blocking off the heat exchanger, in which case you have a bigger problem ( read expensive, unless you are a better mechanic than me! )

                                                  The good news is that Yanmars are practically indestuctible!  but don't  run the motor until u have figured out the source of your trouble!

                                                  Wish I could be more help.....sometimes I wonder why I bought a big boat and sold my racing dinghy (thistle).   But J28s are COOL, so I guess in the long run, you take the good with the bad...

                                                  Waiting to hear how you make out.....it will probably be me soon!!!

                                                  JP
                                                  On Apr 19, 2013, at 10:47 PM, mcclurejsteven wrote:

                                                   

                                                  Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course, ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or ideas?

                                                  Thanks,

                                                  Steve

                                                  --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Sent from my iPad
                                                  > >
                                                  > > David L. Hastings
                                                  > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                                                  > > Crystal River, FL 34429
                                                  > > Home: 352-794-6440
                                                  > > Cell: 315-345-2078
                                                  > >
                                                  > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > > Hi Steve
                                                  > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                                                  > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                                                  > > > Hans
                                                  > > > "Last Dance"
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >> Thanks,
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >> Steve
                                                  > > >>
                                                  > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > John,
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                                                  > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                                                  > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > Bill
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                                                  > > >> > >
                                                  > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                                                  > > >> > >
                                                  > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                                                  > > >> > >
                                                  > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                                                  > > >> > >
                                                  > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                                                  > > >> > >
                                                  > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                                                  > > >> > >
                                                  > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                                                  > > >> > >
                                                  > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                                                  > > >> > >
                                                  > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                                                  > > >> > >
                                                  > > >> > > Where should I start?
                                                  > > >> > >
                                                  > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                                                  > > >> > >
                                                  > > >> > > JP
                                                  > > >> > >
                                                  > > >> >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > __________________________________________________________
                                                  > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
                                                  > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
                                                  > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
                                                  > >
                                                  >


                                                • Jerry Nulton
                                                  I give all of you credit. My answer to all of this is call the yard . I love sailing, maintenance not so much. SeaBird Hull #87 Sent from my iPhone ... I give
                                                  Message 23 of 30 , Apr 20, 2013
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I give all of you credit. My answer to all of this is "call the yard". I love sailing, maintenance not so much. 

                                                    SeaBird Hull #87

                                                    Sent from my iPhone

                                                    On Apr 19, 2013, at 10:47 PM, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:

                                                     

                                                    Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course, ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or ideas?

                                                    Thanks,

                                                    Steve

                                                    --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Sent from my iPad
                                                    > >
                                                    > > David L. Hastings
                                                    > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                                                    > > Crystal River, FL 34429
                                                    > > Home: 352-794-6440
                                                    > > Cell: 315-345-2078
                                                    > >
                                                    > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > > Hi Steve
                                                    > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                                                    > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                                                    > > > Hans
                                                    > > > "Last Dance"
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >> Thanks,
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >> Steve
                                                    > > >>
                                                    > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > John,
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                                                    > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                                                    > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > Bill
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                                                    > > >> > >
                                                    > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                                                    > > >> > >
                                                    > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                                                    > > >> > >
                                                    > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                                                    > > >> > >
                                                    > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                                                    > > >> > >
                                                    > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                                                    > > >> > >
                                                    > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                                                    > > >> > >
                                                    > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                                                    > > >> > >
                                                    > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                                                    > > >> > >
                                                    > > >> > > Where should I start?
                                                    > > >> > >
                                                    > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                                                    > > >> > >
                                                    > > >> > > JP
                                                    > > >> > >
                                                    > > >> >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > __________________________________________________________
                                                    > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
                                                    > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
                                                    > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
                                                    > >
                                                    >

                                                  • David Hastings
                                                    As a general rule, I never think worst scenario first. I d check your hoses and hose clamps. Very likely one may have cracked when you moved the water pump.
                                                    Message 24 of 30 , Apr 20, 2013
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      As a general rule, I never think worst scenario first. I'd check your hoses and hose clamps. Very likely one may have cracked when you moved the water pump. I'd bet at least 10 cents that it's nothing more than a hose. With regard to changing the impeller often, I never have and never had a problem. I owned a J29 inboard for 28 years. Raced it hard and ran it hard. Never changed the impeller and never had a problem. I will say I took good care of the engine. Always was careful to use good fuel, topped it off every year, changed belts occasionally, winterized it myself and flushed it our real good each fall. I think that's the key. Also, changed fuel filters only once on that boat and that was due to running it out of fuel one time, thus sucking some dirt into the filter. I will admit the 29 was used exclusively in fresh water. Anyhow, check the hoses real good.

                                                      Sent from my iPad

                                                      David L. Hastings
                                                      5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                                                      Crystal River, FL 34429
                                                      Home: 352-794-6440
                                                      Cell: 315-345-2078

                                                      On Apr 19, 2013, at 10:47 PM, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:

                                                       

                                                      Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course, ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or ideas?

                                                      Thanks,

                                                      Steve

                                                      --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Sent from my iPad
                                                      > >
                                                      > > David L. Hastings
                                                      > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                                                      > > Crystal River, FL 34429
                                                      > > Home: 352-794-6440
                                                      > > Cell: 315-345-2078
                                                      > >
                                                      > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > > Hi Steve
                                                      > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                                                      > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                                                      > > > Hans
                                                      > > > "Last Dance"
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >> Thanks,
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >> Steve
                                                      > > >>
                                                      > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > John,
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
                                                      > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
                                                      > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > Bill
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
                                                      > > >> > >
                                                      > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                                                      > > >> > >
                                                      > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                                                      > > >> > >
                                                      > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
                                                      > > >> > >
                                                      > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                                                      > > >> > >
                                                      > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
                                                      > > >> > >
                                                      > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                                                      > > >> > >
                                                      > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
                                                      > > >> > >
                                                      > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
                                                      > > >> > >
                                                      > > >> > > Where should I start?
                                                      > > >> > >
                                                      > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                                                      > > >> > >
                                                      > > >> > > JP
                                                      > > >> > >
                                                      > > >> >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > __________________________________________________________
                                                      > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
                                                      > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
                                                      > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
                                                      > >
                                                      >



                                                      ____________________________________________________________
                                                      When Diet & Exercise Fail
                                                      Cut down a bit of stomach fat every day by fixing 3 fat loss hormones.
                                                      RealDose.com
                                                    • mcclurejsteven
                                                      OK, I have a great resource, Ed Wahl, at Eastern Shore Marine, http://www.easternshoremarineinc.com/ on Fly Creek in Fairhope, Al. I sent them an e-mail on
                                                      Message 25 of 30 , Apr 29, 2013
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        OK, I have a great resource, Ed Wahl, at Eastern Shore Marine, http://www.easternshoremarineinc.com/
                                                        on Fly Creek in Fairhope, Al. I sent them an e-mail on the flight to Germany last weekend and they went to work. They said the pre-formed hose had been overheated and was trashed, so they replaced it. Once on, there was still no discharge, so they removed it and found the mixing elbow was clogged with a graphite looking compound. They said they had never seen one clogged this bad. They cleaned it out and put it together so we could participate in the 55th Annual Dauphin Island Race,
                                                        http://55thdauphinislandrace.com/
                                                        and we had a successful race in excellent weather. (Successful equals not turning the boat over and not running out of beer.) He called me at work today to let me know that even they had patched it up for the race, he strongly recommended that I OK a new gasket, which he had to order and it would not be here until next week.
                                                        As for results, we were 16th out of 34 boats, but the skipper ignored a cardinal rule about always take the long tack first and over stood a mark on the 18 mile course by about one mile in a steadily clocking wind, costing us probably ten minutes. Blaming it on jet lag...

                                                        Steve
                                                        --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, sailingmaster@... wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > I am a beginner at this....but i change my impeller every year just on
                                                        > principle. .....
                                                        >
                                                        > I would double check the hoses and clamps running to and from the
                                                        > water pump first. If you have not change the Impeller in a few
                                                        > seasons, you might have created a leak there when u changed the
                                                        > impeller.
                                                        > IF fhat does not solve your problem. The broken off blades of the old
                                                        > impeller may be blocking off the heat exchanger, in which case you
                                                        > have a bigger problem ( read expensive, unless you are a better
                                                        > mechanic than me! )
                                                        >
                                                        > The good news is that Yanmars are practically indestuctible! but
                                                        > don't run the motor until u have figured out the source of your
                                                        > trouble!
                                                        >
                                                        > Wish I could be more help.....sometimes I wonder why I bought a big
                                                        > boat and sold my racing dinghy (thistle). But J28s are COOL, so I
                                                        > guess in the long run, you take the good with the bad...
                                                        >
                                                        > Waiting to hear how you make out.....it will probably be me soon!!!
                                                        >
                                                        > JP
                                                        > On Apr 19, 2013, at 10:47 PM, mcclurejsteven wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > > Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course,
                                                        > > ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove
                                                        > > the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm
                                                        > > socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent
                                                        > > wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it
                                                        > > up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out
                                                        > > under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an
                                                        > > early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining
                                                        > > pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would
                                                        > > have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel
                                                        > > and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or
                                                        > > ideas?
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Thanks,
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Steve
                                                        > >
                                                        > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty
                                                        > > easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good
                                                        > > waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This
                                                        > > makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have
                                                        > > the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings
                                                        > > <david.hastings@> wrote:
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be
                                                        > > slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other
                                                        > > thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a
                                                        > > couple of years ago without warning.
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > Sent from my iPad
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > David L. Hastings
                                                        > > > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                                                        > > > > Crystal River, FL 34429
                                                        > > > > Home: 352-794-6440
                                                        > > > > Cell: 315-345-2078
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > > Hi Steve
                                                        > > > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                                                        > > > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                                                        > > > > > Hans
                                                        > > > > > "Last Dance"
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@>
                                                        > > wrote:
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > >>
                                                        > > > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with
                                                        > > no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds
                                                        > > like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water
                                                        > > coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start
                                                        > > checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the
                                                        > > intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow
                                                        > > from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the
                                                        > > radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two
                                                        > > minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without
                                                        > > water coming out, I turned it off.
                                                        > > > > >>
                                                        > > > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                                                        > > > > >>
                                                        > > > > >> Thanks,
                                                        > > > > >>
                                                        > > > > >> Steve
                                                        > > > > >>
                                                        > > > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@>
                                                        > > wrote:
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > John,
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own
                                                        > > maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts
                                                        > > first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most
                                                        > > complicated expensive potential problems.
                                                        > > > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time
                                                        > > following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen
                                                        > > but might)
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off
                                                        > > this past spring?
                                                        > > > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/
                                                        > > don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start
                                                        > > simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the
                                                        > > overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load
                                                        > > and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until
                                                        > > spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with
                                                        > > it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the
                                                        > > time in the world now over the winter.
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level
                                                        > > closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in
                                                        > > mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold
                                                        > > when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need
                                                        > > to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to
                                                        > > compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had
                                                        > > your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level
                                                        > > will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise
                                                        > > may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack
                                                        > > and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt
                                                        > > any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the
                                                        > > coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully
                                                        > > closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it,
                                                        > > did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it
                                                        > > into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near
                                                        > > the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a
                                                        > > hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they
                                                        > > leak?
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is
                                                        > > coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort
                                                        > > that would have noticed and commented.
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm
                                                        > > thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might
                                                        > > have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine
                                                        > > compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the
                                                        > > coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the
                                                        > > bilge smell of coolant?
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively
                                                        > > cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest
                                                        > > seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie:
                                                        > > pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out
                                                        > > with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy
                                                        > > thing to check.
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and
                                                        > > coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think
                                                        > > this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do
                                                        > > not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a
                                                        > > very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you
                                                        > > use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no
                                                        > > visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not
                                                        > > trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect,
                                                        > > again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on
                                                        > > intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too
                                                        > > bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat
                                                        > > and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at
                                                        > > about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x
                                                        > > 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a
                                                        > > martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just
                                                        > > interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your
                                                        > > lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the
                                                        > > higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded
                                                        > > above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and
                                                        > > still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my
                                                        > > engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine
                                                        > > pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the
                                                        > > fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine
                                                        > > even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the
                                                        > > problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she
                                                        > > would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-
                                                        > > burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope
                                                        > > to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you
                                                        > > might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and
                                                        > > down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to
                                                        > > cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up
                                                        > > and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes
                                                        > > time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you
                                                        > > throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned
                                                        > > fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as
                                                        > > overloading the engine, temporarily.
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat,
                                                        > > I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the
                                                        > > boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some
                                                        > > hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep
                                                        > > it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be
                                                        > > the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at
                                                        > > start up that is the source.
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > Bill
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@>
                                                        > > wrote:
                                                        > > > > >> > >
                                                        > > > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                                                        > > > > >> > >
                                                        > > > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the
                                                        > > anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full
                                                        > > but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                                                        > > > > >> > >
                                                        > > > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never
                                                        > > got up more than 120 degrees.
                                                        > > > > >> > >
                                                        > > > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am
                                                        > > losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat
                                                        > > causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                                                        > > > > >> > >
                                                        > > > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue
                                                        > > on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know
                                                        > > another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is
                                                        > > not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to
                                                        > > conclusions..
                                                        > > > > >> > >
                                                        > > > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and
                                                        > > could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of
                                                        > > black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12
                                                        > > and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and
                                                        > > there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does
                                                        > > however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                                                        > > > > >> > >
                                                        > > > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or
                                                        > > blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season
                                                        > > (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall
                                                        > > and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I
                                                        > > mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo
                                                        > > engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the
                                                        > > mystery of the coolant..
                                                        > > > > >> > >
                                                        > > > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/
                                                        > > foam or water
                                                        > > > > >> > >
                                                        > > > > >> > > Where should I start?
                                                        > > > > >> > >
                                                        > > > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                                                        > > > > >> > >
                                                        > > > > >> > > JP
                                                        > > > > >> > >
                                                        > > > > >> >
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > __________________________________________________________
                                                        > > > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
                                                        > > > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find
                                                        > > Out Here.
                                                        > > > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                      • Marc
                                                        I experienced the same symptoms and traced the problem to the same place. It was time consuming since I started at the impeller, moved to the exchanger and
                                                        Message 26 of 30 , Apr 29, 2013
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          I experienced the same symptoms and traced the problem to the same place. It was time consuming since I started at the impeller, moved to the exchanger and found elbow clogged. I always seem to find these problems in the last palace I look. The only cost was the price of a new gasket, about $5.
                                                          Marc
                                                          J/28 59

                                                          --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > OK, I have a great resource, Ed Wahl, at Eastern Shore Marine, http://www.easternshoremarineinc.com/
                                                          > on Fly Creek in Fairhope, Al. I sent them an e-mail on the flight to Germany last weekend and they went to work. They said the pre-formed hose had been overheated and was trashed, so they replaced it. Once on, there was still no discharge, so they removed it and found the mixing elbow was clogged with a graphite looking compound. They said they had never seen one clogged this bad. They cleaned it out and put it together so we could participate in the 55th Annual Dauphin Island Race,
                                                          > http://55thdauphinislandrace.com/
                                                          > and we had a successful race in excellent weather. (Successful equals not turning the boat over and not running out of beer.) He called me at work today to let me know that even they had patched it up for the race, he strongly recommended that I OK a new gasket, which he had to order and it would not be here until next week.
                                                          > As for results, we were 16th out of 34 boats, but the skipper ignored a cardinal rule about always take the long tack first and over stood a mark on the 18 mile course by about one mile in a steadily clocking wind, costing us probably ten minutes. Blaming it on jet lag...
                                                          >
                                                          > Steve
                                                          > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, sailingmaster@ wrote:
                                                          > >
                                                          > > I am a beginner at this....but i change my impeller every year just on
                                                          > > principle. .....
                                                          > >
                                                          > > I would double check the hoses and clamps running to and from the
                                                          > > water pump first. If you have not change the Impeller in a few
                                                          > > seasons, you might have created a leak there when u changed the
                                                          > > impeller.
                                                          > > IF fhat does not solve your problem. The broken off blades of the old
                                                          > > impeller may be blocking off the heat exchanger, in which case you
                                                          > > have a bigger problem ( read expensive, unless you are a better
                                                          > > mechanic than me! )
                                                          > >
                                                          > > The good news is that Yanmars are practically indestuctible! but
                                                          > > don't run the motor until u have figured out the source of your
                                                          > > trouble!
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Wish I could be more help.....sometimes I wonder why I bought a big
                                                          > > boat and sold my racing dinghy (thistle). But J28s are COOL, so I
                                                          > > guess in the long run, you take the good with the bad...
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Waiting to hear how you make out.....it will probably be me soon!!!
                                                          > >
                                                          > > JP
                                                          > > On Apr 19, 2013, at 10:47 PM, mcclurejsteven wrote:
                                                          > >
                                                          > > > Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course,
                                                          > > > ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove
                                                          > > > the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm
                                                          > > > socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent
                                                          > > > wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it
                                                          > > > up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out
                                                          > > > under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an
                                                          > > > early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining
                                                          > > > pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would
                                                          > > > have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel
                                                          > > > and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or
                                                          > > > ideas?
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Thanks,
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Steve
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty
                                                          > > > easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good
                                                          > > > waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This
                                                          > > > makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have
                                                          > > > the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings
                                                          > > > <david.hastings@> wrote:
                                                          > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be
                                                          > > > slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other
                                                          > > > thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a
                                                          > > > couple of years ago without warning.
                                                          > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > Sent from my iPad
                                                          > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > David L. Hastings
                                                          > > > > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
                                                          > > > > > Crystal River, FL 34429
                                                          > > > > > Home: 352-794-6440
                                                          > > > > > Cell: 315-345-2078
                                                          > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
                                                          > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > > Hi Steve
                                                          > > > > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
                                                          > > > > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
                                                          > > > > > > Hans
                                                          > > > > > > "Last Dance"
                                                          > > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
                                                          > > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@>
                                                          > > > wrote:
                                                          > > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > >>
                                                          > > > > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with
                                                          > > > no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds
                                                          > > > like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water
                                                          > > > coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start
                                                          > > > checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the
                                                          > > > intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow
                                                          > > > from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the
                                                          > > > radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two
                                                          > > > minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without
                                                          > > > water coming out, I turned it off.
                                                          > > > > > >>
                                                          > > > > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
                                                          > > > > > >>
                                                          > > > > > >> Thanks,
                                                          > > > > > >>
                                                          > > > > > >> Steve
                                                          > > > > > >>
                                                          > > > > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@>
                                                          > > > wrote:
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > John,
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own
                                                          > > > maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts
                                                          > > > first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most
                                                          > > > complicated expensive potential problems.
                                                          > > > > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time
                                                          > > > following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen
                                                          > > > but might)
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off
                                                          > > > this past spring?
                                                          > > > > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/
                                                          > > > don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start
                                                          > > > simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the
                                                          > > > overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load
                                                          > > > and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until
                                                          > > > spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with
                                                          > > > it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the
                                                          > > > time in the world now over the winter.
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level
                                                          > > > closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in
                                                          > > > mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold
                                                          > > > when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need
                                                          > > > to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to
                                                          > > > compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had
                                                          > > > your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level
                                                          > > > will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise
                                                          > > > may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack
                                                          > > > and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt
                                                          > > > any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the
                                                          > > > coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully
                                                          > > > closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it,
                                                          > > > did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it
                                                          > > > into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near
                                                          > > > the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a
                                                          > > > hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they
                                                          > > > leak?
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is
                                                          > > > coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort
                                                          > > > that would have noticed and commented.
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm
                                                          > > > thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might
                                                          > > > have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine
                                                          > > > compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the
                                                          > > > coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the
                                                          > > > bilge smell of coolant?
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively
                                                          > > > cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest
                                                          > > > seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie:
                                                          > > > pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out
                                                          > > > with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy
                                                          > > > thing to check.
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and
                                                          > > > coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think
                                                          > > > this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do
                                                          > > > not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a
                                                          > > > very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you
                                                          > > > use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no
                                                          > > > visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not
                                                          > > > trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect,
                                                          > > > again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on
                                                          > > > intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too
                                                          > > > bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat
                                                          > > > and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at
                                                          > > > about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x
                                                          > > > 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a
                                                          > > > martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just
                                                          > > > interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your
                                                          > > > lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the
                                                          > > > higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded
                                                          > > > above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and
                                                          > > > still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my
                                                          > > > engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine
                                                          > > > pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the
                                                          > > > fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine
                                                          > > > even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the
                                                          > > > problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she
                                                          > > > would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-
                                                          > > > burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope
                                                          > > > to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you
                                                          > > > might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and
                                                          > > > down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to
                                                          > > > cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up
                                                          > > > and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes
                                                          > > > time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you
                                                          > > > throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned
                                                          > > > fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as
                                                          > > > overloading the engine, temporarily.
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat,
                                                          > > > I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the
                                                          > > > boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some
                                                          > > > hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep
                                                          > > > it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be
                                                          > > > the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at
                                                          > > > start up that is the source.
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > Bill
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@>
                                                          > > > wrote:
                                                          > > > > > >> > >
                                                          > > > > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
                                                          > > > > > >> > >
                                                          > > > > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the
                                                          > > > anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full
                                                          > > > but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
                                                          > > > > > >> > >
                                                          > > > > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never
                                                          > > > got up more than 120 degrees.
                                                          > > > > > >> > >
                                                          > > > > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am
                                                          > > > losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat
                                                          > > > causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
                                                          > > > > > >> > >
                                                          > > > > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue
                                                          > > > on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know
                                                          > > > another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is
                                                          > > > not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to
                                                          > > > conclusions..
                                                          > > > > > >> > >
                                                          > > > > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and
                                                          > > > could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of
                                                          > > > black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12
                                                          > > > and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and
                                                          > > > there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does
                                                          > > > however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
                                                          > > > > > >> > >
                                                          > > > > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or
                                                          > > > blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season
                                                          > > > (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall
                                                          > > > and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I
                                                          > > > mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo
                                                          > > > engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the
                                                          > > > mystery of the coolant..
                                                          > > > > > >> > >
                                                          > > > > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/
                                                          > > > foam or water
                                                          > > > > > >> > >
                                                          > > > > > >> > > Where should I start?
                                                          > > > > > >> > >
                                                          > > > > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
                                                          > > > > > >> > >
                                                          > > > > > >> > > JP
                                                          > > > > > >> > >
                                                          > > > > > >> >
                                                          > > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > >
                                                          > > > > > >
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                                                          > >
                                                          >
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