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RE: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.

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  • Roy Briscoe
    ahh the 135... I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I ve
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 12, 2010
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      ahh the 135...
      I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
       
      I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
       
      We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
       

      To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
      From: jfws88@...
      Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
      Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.

       
      Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.

      I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.

      --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Some ideas:
      > How old are your sails?
      > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
      > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
      >
      > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
      > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
      >
      > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
      >
      > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
      >
      > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
      >
      > Roy
      >
      >
      >
      > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
      > From: jfws88@...
      > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
      > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
      >
      > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
      >
      > John
      > WHALAYED
      >


    • John
      Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 13, 2010
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        Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.

        I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.

        --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > ahh the 135...
        > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
        >
        > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
        >
        > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
        >
        >
        >
        > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
        > From: jfws88@...
        > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
        > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
        >
        > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
        >
        > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Some ideas:
        > > How old are your sails?
        > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
        > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
        > >
        > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
        > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
        > >
        > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
        > >
        > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
        > >
        > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
        > >
        > > Roy
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
        > > From: jfws88@
        > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
        > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
        > >
        > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
        > >
        > > John
        > > WHALAYED
        > >
        >
      • Marc
        The block on the jib track should be set so that the telltales all break at the same time. If the top telltales break first then you should move the block
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 13, 2010
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          The block on the jib track should be set so that the telltales all break at the same time. If the top telltales break first then you should move the block fwd. If the bottom break first then move them aft. (or was it the other way around?) Always set the jib first then set the main to match the jib. I can sail a close as 30deg AW but find better performance at about 35 degrees off the wind. My buddy has a Ericson 32 and after I pass him going upwind and gain some distance on him he turns around and then I have to pass him again going downwind.

          Cheers,
          Marc
          Thumper J/28 #59
          Seattle, WA

          --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jfws88@...> wrote:
          >
          > Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.
          >
          > I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.
          >
          > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > ahh the 135...
          > > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
          > >
          > > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
          > >
          > > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
          > > From: jfws88@
          > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
          > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
          > >
          > > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
          > >
          > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Some ideas:
          > > > How old are your sails?
          > > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
          > > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
          > > >
          > > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
          > > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
          > > >
          > > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
          > > >
          > > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
          > > >
          > > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
          > > >
          > > > Roy
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
          > > > From: jfws88@
          > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
          > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
          > > >
          > > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
          > > >
          > > > John
          > > > WHALAYED
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Roy Briscoe
          Marc, what size is your head sail? Roy #29 To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com From: j28_59@yahoo.com Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:39:16 +0000 Subject: [J28Sailors]
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 13, 2010
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            Marc, what size is your head sail?
             
            Roy
            #29
             

            To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
            From: j28_59@...
            Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:39:16 +0000
            Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.

             


            The block on the jib track should be set so that the telltales all break at the same time. If the top telltales break first then you should move the block fwd. If the bottom break first then move them aft. (or was it the other way around?) Always set the jib first then set the main to match the jib. I can sail a close as 30deg AW but find better performance at about 35 degrees off the wind. My buddy has a Ericson 32 and after I pass him going upwind and gain some distance on him he turns around and then I have to pass him again going downwind.

            Cheers,
            Marc
            Thumper J/28 #59
            Seattle, WA

            --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jfws88@...> wrote:
            >
            > Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.
            >
            > I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.
            >
            > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > ahh the 135...
            > > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
            > >
            > > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
            > >
            > > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
            > > From: jfws88@
            > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
            > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
            > >
            > > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
            > >
            > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Some ideas:
            > > > How old are your sails?
            > > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
            > > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
            > > >
            > > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
            > > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
            > > >
            > > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
            > > >
            > > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
            > > >
            > > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
            > > >
            > > > Roy
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
            > > > From: jfws88@
            > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
            > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
            > > >
            > > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
            > > >
            > > > John
            > > > WHALAYED
            > > >
            > >
            >


          • John
            Ericson 32, My point exactly, I m not used to losing to this boat and it s driving me crazy
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 13, 2010
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              Ericson 32, My point exactly, I'm not used to losing to this boat and it's driving me crazy

              --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Marc" <j28_59@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > The block on the jib track should be set so that the telltales all break at the same time. If the top telltales break first then you should move the block fwd. If the bottom break first then move them aft. (or was it the other way around?) Always set the jib first then set the main to match the jib. I can sail a close as 30deg AW but find better performance at about 35 degrees off the wind. My buddy has a Ericson 32 and after I pass him going upwind and gain some distance on him he turns around and then I have to pass him again going downwind.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Marc
              > Thumper J/28 #59
              > Seattle, WA
              >
              > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jfws88@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.
              > >
              > > I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.
              > >
              > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ahh the 135...
              > > > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
              > > >
              > > > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
              > > >
              > > > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
              > > > From: jfws88@
              > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
              > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
              > > >
              > > > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
              > > >
              > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Some ideas:
              > > > > How old are your sails?
              > > > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
              > > > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
              > > > >
              > > > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
              > > > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
              > > > >
              > > > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
              > > > >
              > > > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
              > > > >
              > > > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
              > > > >
              > > > > Roy
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > From: jfws88@
              > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
              > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
              > > > >
              > > > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
              > > > >
              > > > > John
              > > > > WHALAYED
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Roy Briscoe
              Yeah, I think part of the light settings is because the lack of wind we have been having. At 10 knots and those setting, we are keeping up with boats rated
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 13, 2010
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                Yeah, I think part of the light settings is because the lack of wind we have been having. At 10 knots and those setting, we are keeping up with boats rated between 168-174 and our rating is 186. I've spent some time looking up the mast and it looks good at those settings, just falling off in the center a touch and the top is not falling off. I add 100 lbs when the wind gets up around 15. If we had a 155, we may have to up those numbers. It will be interesting to what your results are from this coming weekend. I might try some heavier settings and see what happens.
                 
                When I put the leads back more so telltails break more evenly, we are slow and can't keep up with the boats in the fleet. Seems like we need to keep the 135 powered up. We also have some power boat action to deal with too as we are pretty much doing the Tuesday night races barely out of the channel at the mouth of the river. Funny you mentioned more holes, I did start drilling more holes in the genny track last weekend.
                 
                Roy
                #29
                 

                To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                From: jfws88@...
                Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:28:12 +0000
                Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.

                 
                Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.

                I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.

                --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > ahh the 135...
                > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
                >
                > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
                >
                > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
                >
                >
                >
                > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                > From: jfws88@...
                > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
                > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
                >
                > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
                >
                > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Some ideas:
                > > How old are your sails?
                > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
                > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
                > >
                > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
                > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
                > >
                > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
                > >
                > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
                > >
                > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
                > >
                > > Roy
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
                > > From: jfws88@
                > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
                > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
                > >
                > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
                > >
                > > John
                > > WHALAYED
                > >
                >


              • John
                This thread is getting good and we all may learn something. Cars forward goes againest convention but maybe because this is a fractional rig the slot effect
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 13, 2010
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                  This thread is getting good and we all may learn something. Cars forward goes againest convention but maybe because this is a fractional rig the slot effect needs more help. I'm going to play this weekend with just the jib and then the jib and main to see what happens.

                  --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Yeah, I think part of the light settings is because the lack of wind we have been having. At 10 knots and those setting, we are keeping up with boats rated between 168-174 and our rating is 186. I've spent some time looking up the mast and it looks good at those settings, just falling off in the center a touch and the top is not falling off. I add 100 lbs when the wind gets up around 15. If we had a 155, we may have to up those numbers. It will be interesting to what your results are from this coming weekend. I might try some heavier settings and see what happens.
                  >
                  > When I put the leads back more so telltails break more evenly, we are slow and can't keep up with the boats in the fleet. Seems like we need to keep the 135 powered up. We also have some power boat action to deal with too as we are pretty much doing the Tuesday night races barely out of the channel at the mouth of the river. Funny you mentioned more holes, I did start drilling more holes in the genny track last weekend.
                  >
                  > Roy
                  > #29
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: jfws88@...
                  > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:28:12 +0000
                  > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.
                  >
                  > I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.
                  >
                  > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ahh the 135...
                  > > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
                  > >
                  > > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
                  > >
                  > > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                  > > From: jfws88@
                  > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
                  > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
                  > >
                  > > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
                  > >
                  > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Some ideas:
                  > > > How old are your sails?
                  > > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
                  > > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
                  > > >
                  > > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
                  > > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
                  > > >
                  > > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
                  > > >
                  > > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
                  > > >
                  > > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
                  > > >
                  > > > Roy
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > From: jfws88@
                  > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
                  > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
                  > > >
                  > > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
                  > > >
                  > > > John
                  > > > WHALAYED
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Marc
                  Roy, Up to about 12 knots I have been using my new #1, a 150 genoa. I bought it from Quantum this spring. From 10 to 18 knots I use the 135 and over 18 I
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 14, 2010
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                    Roy, Up to about 12 knots I have been using my new #1, a 150 genoa. I bought it from Quantum this spring. From 10 to 18 knots I use the 135 and over 18 I use the working jib. I will replace the 135 next. It very well could be the original. I have decided to stay with the hank on sails to preserve sail shape.
                    Cheers,
                    Marc
                    Thumper J/28 #59


                    --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Marc, what size is your head sail?
                    >
                    > Roy
                    > #29
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: j28_59@...
                    > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:39:16 +0000
                    > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The block on the jib track should be set so that the telltales all break at the same time. If the top telltales break first then you should move the block fwd. If the bottom break first then move them aft. (or was it the other way around?) Always set the jib first then set the main to match the jib. I can sail a close as 30deg AW but find better performance at about 35 degrees off the wind. My buddy has a Ericson 32 and after I pass him going upwind and gain some distance on him he turns around and then I have to pass him again going downwind.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    > Marc
                    > Thumper J/28 #59
                    > Seattle, WA
                    >
                    > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jfws88@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.
                    > >
                    > > I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.
                    > >
                    > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ahh the 135...
                    > > > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
                    > > >
                    > > > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
                    > > >
                    > > > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > From: jfws88@
                    > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
                    > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
                    > > >
                    > > > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Some ideas:
                    > > > > How old are your sails?
                    > > > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
                    > > > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
                    > > > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Roy
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > From: jfws88@
                    > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
                    > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > John
                    > > > > WHALAYED
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Marc
                    Roy, Correction: the new Quantum is 155 Fusion Technora. Marc
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 14, 2010
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                      Roy, Correction: the new Quantum is 155 Fusion Technora. Marc

                      --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Marc" <j28_59@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Roy, Up to about 12 knots I have been using my new #1, a 150 genoa. I bought it from Quantum this spring. From 10 to 18 knots I use the 135 and over 18 I use the working jib. I will replace the 135 next. It very well could be the original. I have decided to stay with the hank on sails to preserve sail shape.
                      > Cheers,
                      > Marc
                      > Thumper J/28 #59
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Marc, what size is your head sail?
                      > >
                      > > Roy
                      > > #29
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                      > > From: j28_59@
                      > > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:39:16 +0000
                      > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > The block on the jib track should be set so that the telltales all break at the same time. If the top telltales break first then you should move the block fwd. If the bottom break first then move them aft. (or was it the other way around?) Always set the jib first then set the main to match the jib. I can sail a close as 30deg AW but find better performance at about 35 degrees off the wind. My buddy has a Ericson 32 and after I pass him going upwind and gain some distance on him he turns around and then I have to pass him again going downwind.
                      > >
                      > > Cheers,
                      > > Marc
                      > > Thumper J/28 #59
                      > > Seattle, WA
                      > >
                      > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jfws88@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.
                      > > >
                      > > > I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ahh the 135...
                      > > > > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > From: jfws88@
                      > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
                      > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Some ideas:
                      > > > > > How old are your sails?
                      > > > > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
                      > > > > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
                      > > > > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Roy
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > > From: jfws88@
                      > > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
                      > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > John
                      > > > > > WHALAYED
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Roy Briscoe
                      Thanks for the info, Marc. We picked up our new 155% PE10(what ever that means) on a roller furler, from Doyle in Salem/Marblehead this morning at 8:00 am and
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 14, 2010
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                        Thanks for the info, Marc.
                         
                        We picked up our new 155% PE10(what ever that means) on a roller furler, from Doyle in Salem/Marblehead this morning at 8:00 am and was racing with it at 11:30 am in Portsmouth, NH. Took 2 bullets. Wind was 8 knots or so in the first race 12-13 in the 2nd. We guessed right in the 2nd race and were 1/2 mile in front by the windward mark. We were in cruising, no spinnakers. The new larger sail helped trememdously in the lighter wind, well worth the 3 sec handicap hit. Rig settings were 900/780. It will be interesting to see how we do on Tuesday night against the racing fleet, the cruising fleet is a little more laid back. The new 155 really kicked into high gear when the wind got into the 12-13 range and neutral helm.
                         
                        One of my Tuesday night racing fleet competitors suggested today that I rake the mast back more to improve the pointing, so we might try that later, I don't think have time in the morning to set up the rig with the moved step forward some for Sunday's races. Currently we have the step all the way back. We did pay attention today and saw we were tacking 40 degrees, which isn't great.
                         
                        Roy
                        #29

                        To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                        From: j28_59@...
                        Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:29:42 +0000
                        Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.

                         


                        Roy, Correction: the new Quantum is 155 Fusion Technora. Marc

                        --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Marc" <j28_59@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Roy, Up to about 12 knots I have been using my new #1, a 150 genoa. I bought it from Quantum this spring. From 10 to 18 knots I use the 135 and over 18 I use the working jib. I will replace the 135 next. It very well could be the original. I have decided to stay with the hank on sails to preserve sail shape.
                        > Cheers,
                        > Marc
                        > Thumper J/28 #59
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Marc, what size is your head sail?
                        > >
                        > > Roy
                        > > #29
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                        > > From: j28_59@
                        > > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:39:16 +0000
                        > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > The block on the jib track should be set so that the telltales all break at the same time. If the top telltales break first then you should move the block fwd. If the bottom break first then move them aft. (or was it the other way around?) Always set the jib first then set the main to match the jib. I can sail a close as 30deg AW but find better performance at about 35 degrees off the wind. My buddy has a Ericson 32 and after I pass him going upwind and gain some distance on him he turns around and then I have to pass him again going downwind.
                        > >
                        > > Cheers,
                        > > Marc
                        > > Thumper J/28 #59
                        > > Seattle, WA
                        > >
                        > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jfws88@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.
                        > > >
                        > > > I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ahh the 135...
                        > > > > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > From: jfws88@
                        > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
                        > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Some ideas:
                        > > > > > How old are your sails?
                        > > > > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
                        > > > > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
                        > > > > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Roy
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > From: jfws88@
                        > > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
                        > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > John
                        > > > > > WHALAYED
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >


                      • Marc
                        Roy, Congratulation the new genoa. I really have been enjoying mine. I have found that as the wind picks up there is so much air coming off the inside of the
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 15, 2010
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                          Roy, Congratulation the new genoa. I really have been enjoying mine. I have found that as the wind picks up there is so much air coming off the inside of the genny that it effects the shape of my main by pushing the draft in. I have to let the genny out to a couple of inches off the spreader and then after making adjustments to the main I'm not sailing quite so close either. But with the extra power I'm able to cheet up wind if I have to make a mark.
                          Cheers,
                          Marc
                          Thumper J/28 #59



                          --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Thanks for the info, Marc.
                          >
                          > We picked up our new 155% PE10(what ever that means) on a roller furler, from Doyle in Salem/Marblehead this morning at 8:00 am and was racing with it at 11:30 am in Portsmouth, NH. Took 2 bullets. Wind was 8 knots or so in the first race 12-13 in the 2nd. We guessed right in the 2nd race and were 1/2 mile in front by the windward mark. We were in cruising, no spinnakers. The new larger sail helped trememdously in the lighter wind, well worth the 3 sec handicap hit. Rig settings were 900/780. It will be interesting to see how we do on Tuesday night against the racing fleet, the cruising fleet is a little more laid back. The new 155 really kicked into high gear when the wind got into the 12-13 range and neutral helm.
                          >
                          > One of my Tuesday night racing fleet competitors suggested today that I rake the mast back more to improve the pointing, so we might try that later, I don't think have time in the morning to set up the rig with the moved step forward some for Sunday's races. Currently we have the step all the way back. We did pay attention today and saw we were tacking 40 degrees, which isn't great.
                          >
                          > Roy
                          > #29
                          >
                          >
                          > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                          > From: j28_59@...
                          > Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:29:42 +0000
                          > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Roy, Correction: the new Quantum is 155 Fusion Technora. Marc
                          >
                          > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Marc" <j28_59@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Roy, Up to about 12 knots I have been using my new #1, a 150 genoa. I bought it from Quantum this spring. From 10 to 18 knots I use the 135 and over 18 I use the working jib. I will replace the 135 next. It very well could be the original. I have decided to stay with the hank on sails to preserve sail shape.
                          > > Cheers,
                          > > Marc
                          > > Thumper J/28 #59
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Marc, what size is your head sail?
                          > > >
                          > > > Roy
                          > > > #29
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > From: j28_59@
                          > > > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:39:16 +0000
                          > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > The block on the jib track should be set so that the telltales all break at the same time. If the top telltales break first then you should move the block fwd. If the bottom break first then move them aft. (or was it the other way around?) Always set the jib first then set the main to match the jib. I can sail a close as 30deg AW but find better performance at about 35 degrees off the wind. My buddy has a Ericson 32 and after I pass him going upwind and gain some distance on him he turns around and then I have to pass him again going downwind.
                          > > >
                          > > > Cheers,
                          > > > Marc
                          > > > Thumper J/28 #59
                          > > > Seattle, WA
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jfws88@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > ahh the 135...
                          > > > > > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > From: jfws88@
                          > > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
                          > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Some ideas:
                          > > > > > > How old are your sails?
                          > > > > > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
                          > > > > > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
                          > > > > > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Roy
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > > From: jfws88@
                          > > > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
                          > > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > John
                          > > > > > > WHALAYED
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Roy Briscoe
                          Marc, what do you do when you are using the jib? Do you have tracks on the cabin top or are you using the genny tracks? If you have them on the cabin top,
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 15, 2010
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                            Marc, what do you do when you are using the jib? Do you have tracks on the cabin top or are you using the genny tracks? If you have them on the cabin top, could post a picture and some measurements?
                             
                            Do you think it is worth loosing the 6 sec recreational handicap to be able to use the 135? We have been a little debate about that.
                             
                            We ran out of genny track when the wind kicked up today, had the cars set in the most aft hole and we experimented and ended up with the sail set about 8"-12" off the spreaders. That seemed the best position for heel and helm, though I wish I had one more hole back and about 500 more lbs of bodies. We may need to get the sail tweaked. I also cranked up the rig to 1000 lbs on the uppers and left the lowers at around 760-800. The mast seem OK, and was pretty much straight in 18-20 knots of wind with a reefed main and the 155, tip was not falling off and the center was straight. Oh yeah, 2 more firsts.
                             
                            Roy
                            #29
                             

                            To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                            From: j28_59@...
                            Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:17:27 +0000
                            Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.

                             


                            Roy, Congratulation the new genoa. I really have been enjoying mine. I have found that as the wind picks up there is so much air coming off the inside of the genny that it effects the shape of my main by pushing the draft in. I have to let the genny out to a couple of inches off the spreader and then after making adjustments to the main I'm not sailing quite so close either. But with the extra power I'm able to cheet up wind if I have to make a mark.
                            Cheers,
                            Marc
                            Thumper J/28 #59

                            --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Thanks for the info, Marc.
                            >
                            > We picked up our new 155% PE10(what ever that means) on a roller furler, from Doyle in Salem/Marblehead this morning at 8:00 am and was racing with it at 11:30 am in Portsmouth, NH. Took 2 bullets. Wind was 8 knots or so in the first race 12-13 in the 2nd. We guessed right in the 2nd race and were 1/2 mile in front by the windward mark. We were in cruising, no spinnakers. The new larger sail helped trememdously in the lighter wind, well worth the 3 sec handicap hit. Rig settings were 900/780. It will be interesting to see how we do on Tuesday night against the racing fleet, the cruising fleet is a little more laid back. The new 155 really kicked into high gear when the wind got into the 12-13 range and neutral helm.
                            >
                            > One of my Tuesday night racing fleet competitors suggested today that I rake the mast back more to improve the pointing, so we might try that later, I don't think have time in the morning to set up the rig with the moved step forward some for Sunday's races. Currently we have the step all the way back. We did pay attention today and saw we were tacking 40 degrees, which isn't great.
                            >
                            > Roy
                            > #29
                            >
                            >
                            > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                            > From: j28_59@...
                            > Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:29:42 +0000
                            > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Roy, Correction: the new Quantum is 155 Fusion Technora. Marc
                            >
                            > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Marc" <j28_59@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Roy, Up to about 12 knots I have been using my new #1, a 150 genoa. I bought it from Quantum this spring. From 10 to 18 knots I use the 135 and over 18 I use the working jib. I will replace the 135 next. It very well could be the original. I have decided to stay with the hank on sails to preserve sail shape.
                            > > Cheers,
                            > > Marc
                            > > Thumper J/28 #59
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Marc, what size is your head sail?
                            > > >
                            > > > Roy
                            > > > #29
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > From: j28_59@
                            > > > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:39:16 +0000
                            > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > The block on the jib track should be set so that the telltales all break at the same time. If the top telltales break first then you should move the block fwd. If the bottom break first then move them aft. (or was it the other way around?) Always set the jib first then set the main to match the jib. I can sail a close as 30deg AW but find better performance at about 35 degrees off the wind. My buddy has a Ericson 32 and after I pass him going upwind and gain some distance on him he turns around and then I have to pass him again going downwind.
                            > > >
                            > > > Cheers,
                            > > > Marc
                            > > > Thumper J/28 #59
                            > > > Seattle, WA
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jfws88@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > ahh the 135...
                            > > > > > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > From: jfws88@
                            > > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
                            > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Some ideas:
                            > > > > > > How old are your sails?
                            > > > > > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
                            > > > > > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
                            > > > > > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Roy
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > > From: jfws88@
                            > > > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
                            > > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > John
                            > > > > > > WHALAYED
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >


                          • Marc
                            Roy, I haven t added a track on the cabin top. I set the track cars about 5 or 6 holes from the aft end of the track when using the #1 genny. I went for a
                            Message 13 of 19 , Aug 16, 2010
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                              Roy,
                              I haven't added a track on the cabin top. I set the track cars about 5 or 6 holes from the aft end of the track when using the #1 genny.
                              I went for a daysail Sat. and was suprised to have an 18 kt wind once I got out of the marina. Although I had it ready to use I didn't even raise my #1. I went right to the #3 in case it freshened to over 20. I was able to maintain a hull speed of 6.1 kts at about 35 deg off the wind. It made for a nice comfortable sail. If i was racing I would have used the #2 and would have reached hull speed.

                              As for the handicap I would think that if you have the crew to handle the extra sail, I would think the more weapons the better. (more fun)

                              Cheers,
                              Marc
                              Thumper J/28_59

                              --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Marc, what do you do when you are using the jib? Do you have tracks on the cabin top or are you using the genny tracks? If you have them on the cabin top, could post a picture and some measurements?
                              >
                              > Do you think it is worth loosing the 6 sec recreational handicap to be able to use the 135? We have been a little debate about that.
                              >
                              > We ran out of genny track when the wind kicked up today, had the cars set in the most aft hole and we experimented and ended up with the sail set about 8"-12" off the spreaders. That seemed the best position for heel and helm, though I wish I had one more hole back and about 500 more lbs of bodies. We may need to get the sail tweaked. I also cranked up the rig to 1000 lbs on the uppers and left the lowers at around 760-800. The mast seem OK, and was pretty much straight in 18-20 knots of wind with a reefed main and the 155, tip was not falling off and the center was straight. Oh yeah, 2 more firsts.
                              >
                              > Roy
                              > #29
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                              > From: j28_59@...
                              > Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:17:27 +0000
                              > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Roy, Congratulation the new genoa. I really have been enjoying mine. I have found that as the wind picks up there is so much air coming off the inside of the genny that it effects the shape of my main by pushing the draft in. I have to let the genny out to a couple of inches off the spreader and then after making adjustments to the main I'm not sailing quite so close either. But with the extra power I'm able to cheet up wind if I have to make a mark.
                              > Cheers,
                              > Marc
                              > Thumper J/28 #59
                              >
                              > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Thanks for the info, Marc.
                              > >
                              > > We picked up our new 155% PE10(what ever that means) on a roller furler, from Doyle in Salem/Marblehead this morning at 8:00 am and was racing with it at 11:30 am in Portsmouth, NH. Took 2 bullets. Wind was 8 knots or so in the first race 12-13 in the 2nd. We guessed right in the 2nd race and were 1/2 mile in front by the windward mark. We were in cruising, no spinnakers. The new larger sail helped trememdously in the lighter wind, well worth the 3 sec handicap hit. Rig settings were 900/780. It will be interesting to see how we do on Tuesday night against the racing fleet, the cruising fleet is a little more laid back. The new 155 really kicked into high gear when the wind got into the 12-13 range and neutral helm.
                              > >
                              > > One of my Tuesday night racing fleet competitors suggested today that I rake the mast back more to improve the pointing, so we might try that later, I don't think have time in the morning to set up the rig with the moved step forward some for Sunday's races. Currently we have the step all the way back. We did pay attention today and saw we were tacking 40 degrees, which isn't great.
                              > >
                              > > Roy
                              > > #29
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                              > > From: j28_59@
                              > > Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:29:42 +0000
                              > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Roy, Correction: the new Quantum is 155 Fusion Technora. Marc
                              > >
                              > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Marc" <j28_59@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Roy, Up to about 12 knots I have been using my new #1, a 150 genoa. I bought it from Quantum this spring. From 10 to 18 knots I use the 135 and over 18 I use the working jib. I will replace the 135 next. It very well could be the original. I have decided to stay with the hank on sails to preserve sail shape.
                              > > > Cheers,
                              > > > Marc
                              > > > Thumper J/28 #59
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Marc, what size is your head sail?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Roy
                              > > > > #29
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > From: j28_59@
                              > > > > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:39:16 +0000
                              > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > The block on the jib track should be set so that the telltales all break at the same time. If the top telltales break first then you should move the block fwd. If the bottom break first then move them aft. (or was it the other way around?) Always set the jib first then set the main to match the jib. I can sail a close as 30deg AW but find better performance at about 35 degrees off the wind. My buddy has a Ericson 32 and after I pass him going upwind and gain some distance on him he turns around and then I have to pass him again going downwind.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Cheers,
                              > > > > Marc
                              > > > > Thumper J/28 #59
                              > > > > Seattle, WA
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jfws88@> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > ahh the 135...
                              > > > > > > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > From: jfws88@
                              > > > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
                              > > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > Some ideas:
                              > > > > > > > How old are your sails?
                              > > > > > > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
                              > > > > > > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
                              > > > > > > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > Roy
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > > > From: jfws88@
                              > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
                              > > > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > John
                              > > > > > > > WHALAYED
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • John
                              Well, cars more forward than I normally sail and a big ease on the jib halyard and I was tacking thru 80 degrees in 15 knots wind and took a bullet in my
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 16, 2010
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                                Well, cars more forward than I normally sail and a big ease on the jib halyard and I was tacking thru 80 degrees in 15 knots wind and took a bullet in my Monday night series. This is a much better direction. Wednesday nights I have much stiffer competition, we'll see then.

                                --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Marc" <j28_59@...> wrote:
                                >>
                                >
                                > Roy,
                                > I haven't added a track on the cabin top. I set the track cars about 5 or 6 holes from the aft end of the track when using the #1 genny.
                                > I went for a daysail Sat. and was suprised to have an 18 kt wind once I got out of the marina. Although I had it ready to use I didn't even raise my #1. I went right to the #3 in case it freshened to over 20. I was able to maintain a hull speed of 6.1 kts at about 35 deg off the wind. It made for a nice comfortable sail. If i was racing I would have used the #2 and would have reached hull speed.
                                >
                                > As for the handicap I would think that if you have the crew to handle the extra sail, I would think the more weapons the better. (more fun)
                                >
                                > Cheers,
                                > Marc
                                > Thumper J/28_59
                                >
                                > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Marc, what do you do when you are using the jib? Do you have tracks on the cabin top or are you using the genny tracks? If you have them on the cabin top, could post a picture and some measurements?
                                > >
                                > > Do you think it is worth loosing the 6 sec recreational handicap to be able to use the 135? We have been a little debate about that.
                                > >
                                > > We ran out of genny track when the wind kicked up today, had the cars set in the most aft hole and we experimented and ended up with the sail set about 8"-12" off the spreaders. That seemed the best position for heel and helm, though I wish I had one more hole back and about 500 more lbs of bodies. We may need to get the sail tweaked. I also cranked up the rig to 1000 lbs on the uppers and left the lowers at around 760-800. The mast seem OK, and was pretty much straight in 18-20 knots of wind with a reefed main and the 155, tip was not falling off and the center was straight. Oh yeah, 2 more firsts.
                                > >
                                > > Roy
                                > > #29
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                > > From: j28_59@
                                > > Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:17:27 +0000
                                > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Roy, Congratulation the new genoa. I really have been enjoying mine. I have found that as the wind picks up there is so much air coming off the inside of the genny that it effects the shape of my main by pushing the draft in. I have to let the genny out to a couple of inches off the spreader and then after making adjustments to the main I'm not sailing quite so close either. But with the extra power I'm able to cheet up wind if I have to make a mark.
                                > > Cheers,
                                > > Marc
                                > > Thumper J/28 #59
                                > >
                                > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Thanks for the info, Marc.
                                > > >
                                > > > We picked up our new 155% PE10(what ever that means) on a roller furler, from Doyle in Salem/Marblehead this morning at 8:00 am and was racing with it at 11:30 am in Portsmouth, NH. Took 2 bullets. Wind was 8 knots or so in the first race 12-13 in the 2nd. We guessed right in the 2nd race and were 1/2 mile in front by the windward mark. We were in cruising, no spinnakers. The new larger sail helped trememdously in the lighter wind, well worth the 3 sec handicap hit. Rig settings were 900/780. It will be interesting to see how we do on Tuesday night against the racing fleet, the cruising fleet is a little more laid back. The new 155 really kicked into high gear when the wind got into the 12-13 range and neutral helm.
                                > > >
                                > > > One of my Tuesday night racing fleet competitors suggested today that I rake the mast back more to improve the pointing, so we might try that later, I don't think have time in the morning to set up the rig with the moved step forward some for Sunday's races. Currently we have the step all the way back. We did pay attention today and saw we were tacking 40 degrees, which isn't great.
                                > > >
                                > > > Roy
                                > > > #29
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > From: j28_59@
                                > > > Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:29:42 +0000
                                > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Roy, Correction: the new Quantum is 155 Fusion Technora. Marc
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Marc" <j28_59@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Roy, Up to about 12 knots I have been using my new #1, a 150 genoa. I bought it from Quantum this spring. From 10 to 18 knots I use the 135 and over 18 I use the working jib. I will replace the 135 next. It very well could be the original. I have decided to stay with the hank on sails to preserve sail shape.
                                > > > > Cheers,
                                > > > > Marc
                                > > > > Thumper J/28 #59
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Marc, what size is your head sail?
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Roy
                                > > > > > #29
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > From: j28_59@
                                > > > > > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:39:16 +0000
                                > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > The block on the jib track should be set so that the telltales all break at the same time. If the top telltales break first then you should move the block fwd. If the bottom break first then move them aft. (or was it the other way around?) Always set the jib first then set the main to match the jib. I can sail a close as 30deg AW but find better performance at about 35 degrees off the wind. My buddy has a Ericson 32 and after I pass him going upwind and gain some distance on him he turns around and then I have to pass him again going downwind.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Cheers,
                                > > > > > Marc
                                > > > > > Thumper J/28 #59
                                > > > > > Seattle, WA
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jfws88@> wrote:
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > ahh the 135...
                                > > > > > > > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > > > From: jfws88@
                                > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
                                > > > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > Some ideas:
                                > > > > > > > > How old are your sails?
                                > > > > > > > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
                                > > > > > > > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
                                > > > > > > > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > Roy
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > > > > > > From: jfws88@
                                > > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
                                > > > > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > > > John
                                > > > > > > > > WHALAYED
                                > > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Roy Briscoe
                                Marc, do you sheet the Jib inside or outside shrouds? Roy #29 To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com From: j28_59@yahoo.com Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:27:27 +0000
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 25, 2010
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                                  Marc, do you sheet the Jib inside or outside shrouds?
                                   
                                  Roy
                                  #29
                                   

                                  To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: j28_59@...
                                  Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:27:27 +0000
                                  Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.

                                   


                                  Roy,
                                  I haven't added a track on the cabin top. I set the track cars about 5 or 6 holes from the aft end of the track when using the #1 genny.
                                  I went for a daysail Sat. and was suprised to have an 18 kt wind once I got out of the marina. Although I had it ready to use I didn't even raise my #1. I went right to the #3 in case it freshened to over 20. I was able to maintain a hull speed of 6.1 kts at about 35 deg off the wind. It made for a nice comfortable sail. If i was racing I would have used the #2 and would have reached hull speed.

                                  As for the handicap I would think that if you have the crew to handle the extra sail, I would think the more weapons the better. (more fun)

                                  Cheers,
                                  Marc
                                  Thumper J/28_59

                                  --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Marc, what do you do when you are using the jib? Do you have tracks on the cabin top or are you using the genny tracks? If you have them on the cabin top, could post a picture and some measurements?
                                  >
                                  > Do you think it is worth loosing the 6 sec recreational handicap to be able to use the 135? We have been a little debate about that.
                                  >
                                  > We ran out of genny track when the wind kicked up today, had the cars set in the most aft hole and we experimented and ended up with the sail set about 8"-12" off the spreaders. That seemed the best position for heel and helm, though I wish I had one more hole back and about 500 more lbs of bodies. We may need to get the sail tweaked. I also cranked up the rig to 1000 lbs on the uppers and left the lowers at around 760-800. The mast seem OK, and was pretty much straight in 18-20 knots of wind with a reefed main and the 155, tip was not falling off and the center was straight. Oh yeah, 2 more firsts.
                                  >
                                  > Roy
                                  > #29
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                  > From: j28_59@...
                                  > Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:17:27 +0000
                                  > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Roy, Congratulation the new genoa. I really have been enjoying mine. I have found that as the wind picks up there is so much air coming off the inside of the genny that it effects the shape of my main by pushing the draft in. I have to let the genny out to a couple of inches off the spreader and then after making adjustments to the main I'm not sailing quite so close either. But with the extra power I'm able to cheet up wind if I have to make a mark.
                                  > Cheers,
                                  > Marc
                                  > Thumper J/28 #59
                                  >
                                  > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks for the info, Marc.
                                  > >
                                  > > We picked up our new 155% PE10(what ever that means) on a roller furler, from Doyle in Salem/Marblehead this morning at 8:00 am and was racing with it at 11:30 am in Portsmouth, NH. Took 2 bullets. Wind was 8 knots or so in the first race 12-13 in the 2nd. We guessed right in the 2nd race and were 1/2 mile in front by the windward mark. We were in cruising, no spinnakers. The new larger sail helped trememdously in the lighter wind, well worth the 3 sec handicap hit. Rig settings were 900/780. It will be interesting to see how we do on Tuesday night against the racing fleet, the cruising fleet is a little more laid back. The new 155 really kicked into high gear when the wind got into the 12-13 range and neutral helm.
                                  > >
                                  > > One of my Tuesday night racing fleet competitors suggested today that I rake the mast back more to improve the pointing, so we might try that later, I don't think have time in the morning to set up the rig with the moved step forward some for Sunday's races. Currently we have the step all the way back. We did pay attention today and saw we were tacking 40 degrees, which isn't great.
                                  > >
                                  > > Roy
                                  > > #29
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > From: j28_59@
                                  > > Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:29:42 +0000
                                  > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Roy, Correction: the new Quantum is 155 Fusion Technora. Marc
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Marc" <j28_59@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Roy, Up to about 12 knots I have been using my new #1, a 150 genoa. I bought it from Quantum this spring. From 10 to 18 knots I use the 135 and over 18 I use the working jib. I will replace the 135 next. It very well could be the original. I have decided to stay with the hank on sails to preserve sail shape.
                                  > > > Cheers,
                                  > > > Marc
                                  > > > Thumper J/28 #59
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Marc, what size is your head sail?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Roy
                                  > > > > #29
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > From: j28_59@
                                  > > > > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:39:16 +0000
                                  > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The block on the jib track should be set so that the telltales all break at the same time. If the top telltales break first then you should move the block fwd. If the bottom break first then move them aft. (or was it the other way around?) Always set the jib first then set the main to match the jib. I can sail a close as 30deg AW but find better performance at about 35 degrees off the wind. My buddy has a Ericson 32 and after I pass him going upwind and gain some distance on him he turns around and then I have to pass him again going downwind.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Cheers,
                                  > > > > Marc
                                  > > > > Thumper J/28 #59
                                  > > > > Seattle, WA
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jfws88@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > ahh the 135...
                                  > > > > > > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > > From: jfws88@
                                  > > > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
                                  > > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > Some ideas:
                                  > > > > > > > How old are your sails?
                                  > > > > > > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
                                  > > > > > > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
                                  > > > > > > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > Roy
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > > > > From: jfws88@
                                  > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
                                  > > > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > John
                                  > > > > > > > WHALAYED
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                                  >


                                • Marc
                                  Roy, I always run the sheets outside of the shrouds. I have an old book called SAIL POWER by Wallace Ross. The sailmaking practices have changed quite a bit
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Aug 26, 2010
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                                    Roy, I always run the sheets outside of the shrouds. I have an old book called SAIL POWER by Wallace Ross. The sailmaking practices have changed quite a bit since it was writen but he does a great job of explaining how to get the most power out of your sails. It's out of print so it's only available used. I would recommend it to anyone, no matter how long they have been sailing.
                                    Cheers,
                                    Marc
                                    Thumper J/28 #59

                                    --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Marc, do you sheet the Jib inside or outside shrouds?
                                    >
                                    > Roy
                                    > #29
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                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                    > From: j28_59@...
                                    > Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 13:27:27 +0000
                                    > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                                    >
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                                    > Roy,
                                    > I haven't added a track on the cabin top. I set the track cars about 5 or 6 holes from the aft end of the track when using the #1 genny.
                                    > I went for a daysail Sat. and was suprised to have an 18 kt wind once I got out of the marina. Although I had it ready to use I didn't even raise my #1. I went right to the #3 in case it freshened to over 20. I was able to maintain a hull speed of 6.1 kts at about 35 deg off the wind. It made for a nice comfortable sail. If i was racing I would have used the #2 and would have reached hull speed.
                                    >
                                    > As for the handicap I would think that if you have the crew to handle the extra sail, I would think the more weapons the better. (more fun)
                                    >
                                    > Cheers,
                                    > Marc
                                    > Thumper J/28_59
                                    >
                                    > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Marc, what do you do when you are using the jib? Do you have tracks on the cabin top or are you using the genny tracks? If you have them on the cabin top, could post a picture and some measurements?
                                    > >
                                    > > Do you think it is worth loosing the 6 sec recreational handicap to be able to use the 135? We have been a little debate about that.
                                    > >
                                    > > We ran out of genny track when the wind kicked up today, had the cars set in the most aft hole and we experimented and ended up with the sail set about 8"-12" off the spreaders. That seemed the best position for heel and helm, though I wish I had one more hole back and about 500 more lbs of bodies. We may need to get the sail tweaked. I also cranked up the rig to 1000 lbs on the uppers and left the lowers at around 760-800. The mast seem OK, and was pretty much straight in 18-20 knots of wind with a reefed main and the 155, tip was not falling off and the center was straight. Oh yeah, 2 more firsts.
                                    > >
                                    > > Roy
                                    > > #29
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > From: j28_59@
                                    > > Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 13:17:27 +0000
                                    > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                                    > >
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                                    > >
                                    > > Roy, Congratulation the new genoa. I really have been enjoying mine. I have found that as the wind picks up there is so much air coming off the inside of the genny that it effects the shape of my main by pushing the draft in. I have to let the genny out to a couple of inches off the spreader and then after making adjustments to the main I'm not sailing quite so close either. But with the extra power I'm able to cheet up wind if I have to make a mark.
                                    > > Cheers,
                                    > > Marc
                                    > > Thumper J/28 #59
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Thanks for the info, Marc.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > We picked up our new 155% PE10(what ever that means) on a roller furler, from Doyle in Salem/Marblehead this morning at 8:00 am and was racing with it at 11:30 am in Portsmouth, NH. Took 2 bullets. Wind was 8 knots or so in the first race 12-13 in the 2nd. We guessed right in the 2nd race and were 1/2 mile in front by the windward mark. We were in cruising, no spinnakers. The new larger sail helped trememdously in the lighter wind, well worth the 3 sec handicap hit. Rig settings were 900/780. It will be interesting to see how we do on Tuesday night against the racing fleet, the cruising fleet is a little more laid back. The new 155 really kicked into high gear when the wind got into the 12-13 range and neutral helm.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > One of my Tuesday night racing fleet competitors suggested today that I rake the mast back more to improve the pointing, so we might try that later, I don't think have time in the morning to set up the rig with the moved step forward some for Sunday's races. Currently we have the step all the way back. We did pay attention today and saw we were tacking 40 degrees, which isn't great.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Roy
                                    > > > #29
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > From: j28_59@
                                    > > > Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:29:42 +0000
                                    > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
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                                    > > >
                                    > > > Roy, Correction: the new Quantum is 155 Fusion Technora. Marc
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "Marc" <j28_59@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Roy, Up to about 12 knots I have been using my new #1, a 150 genoa. I bought it from Quantum this spring. From 10 to 18 knots I use the 135 and over 18 I use the working jib. I will replace the 135 next. It very well could be the original. I have decided to stay with the hank on sails to preserve sail shape.
                                    > > > > Cheers,
                                    > > > > Marc
                                    > > > > Thumper J/28 #59
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Marc, what size is your head sail?
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Roy
                                    > > > > > #29
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                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > From: j28_59@
                                    > > > > > Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:39:16 +0000
                                    > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                                    > > > > >
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                                    > > > > > The block on the jib track should be set so that the telltales all break at the same time. If the top telltales break first then you should move the block fwd. If the bottom break first then move them aft. (or was it the other way around?) Always set the jib first then set the main to match the jib. I can sail a close as 30deg AW but find better performance at about 35 degrees off the wind. My buddy has a Ericson 32 and after I pass him going upwind and gain some distance on him he turns around and then I have to pass him again going downwind.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Cheers,
                                    > > > > > Marc
                                    > > > > > Thumper J/28 #59
                                    > > > > > Seattle, WA
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jfws88@> wrote:
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > Wow, 700 on the lowers and 800 on the uppers seems loose. Mine are set at roughly 1100 and 1300 or about 80% of what is recomended for the J30. I also added about 8 additional holes in the jib track to locate the blocks everytwoo inch rather than the 4" spacing.
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > I'm going to play this weekend with alot of settings and actualy record the results. I hate loosing to the Ericison 32 in the fleet I race againest.
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > ahh the 135...
                                    > > > > > > > I have the tracks set at about 8 screws showing behind the blocks so there is a pretty good belly and a closed leech for most conditions. I've tried moving them back but we seem slower when we do this. I drive to the lower telltails, the mid telltails are lifting and the uppers aren't doing much of anything. I do have to watch the windex and the telltails to make sure I'm not driving too low, can't just watch the telltails alone like I could on the Colgate. Not sure what our tacking angles are, I'll pay closer attention to it this weekend.
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > I have the lowers set at in the low 700 lbs and the uppers about mid 800 lbs. I have also tried about 100 lbs more on each, not sure we saw much of a difference in speed, but it has been a very light wind year, we had wind just over 10 knots last week for the first time in 4 weeks.
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > We still have a ways to go on figuring out how to go faster, I'm hoping the 155 will be a huge help, all our competitors have newish 155 and are getting to weather mark before us in stuff under 10 knots.
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > > > From: jfws88@
                                    > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:10:35 +0000
                                    > > > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: A little help from my friends, please.
                                    > > > > > > >
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                                    > > > > > > > Strike one and two. I do not mark my halyards and last night I did have the jib halyard too tight. For my main I have a nice cummingham for the main luff adj and an easy and effective foot adjustment and I use them all the time. My sails are not new but the're in pretty good shape. Strike two is that I only have a 135 genny.
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > I've got the mainsail trim down pretty good and can feel the pull when I get it powered up good. the problem is the getting the two sails to work together. I'm going to try moving the cars forward alot and see what happens and of course easing the halyards. I follow pretty closly the trim settings for the J30 as the rigs are almost the same. Right know, this year I have difficultly tacking thru less than 100 degrees and I'm not going to win any upwind battles like that.
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > Some ideas:
                                    > > > > > > > > How old are your sails?
                                    > > > > > > > > Do you mark the halyards for a rough approximation of the light, medium and heavy air settings?
                                    > > > > > > > > The older my sails get, more remarking we seem to have to do.
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > Less jib trim and/or more main trim. Meaning let the main push the bow up more. Too much jib or not enough main will let the jib push the bow down.
                                    > > > > > > > > Experiment with halyard tension and draft position along with trimming the main in more. We found out this year that the boat seems to like a little backstay once you get about 10-11 knots of breeze, it helps get the telltail at the top batten flying.
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > I used to have a Colgate 26, and many of those owners seem to have an issue with pointing. I didn't and I think it was because I kept the main's draft at 50% or slightly more so the main was always trying to push the bow up and of course keep the top batten as close to parallel as you can and still keep the air flowing. As the sails got older, we did have trouble trying to figure out the right settings for pointing. We don't seem to be having a problem with pointing the J28 in breeze over 10 knots when we keep the main's draft just forward of the short lower battens. Our sails are fairly newish. Under that, with the 135%, we do awful. A 155% is on order.
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > We also are trying a trick from the NorthU books on the jib this year. Mark the sail and the headstay, about 4' up, with a sharpie for the rough halyard settings. We have one mark for medium air so far. Set the jib under that for light air by an inch or so and over that for heavy air. I guess the only issue is a sharp competitor will notice your settings too.
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > This past weekend I was at the J30 North Amercians and whenever we were bow down on the competition, the call was to trim the main in more. Of course they had a fine tune adjustment on the main sheet, which we are thinking of adding to the J28 to get those 1/2" adjustment tweaks.
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > Roy
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > To: j28sailors@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > > > > > > From: jfws88@
                                    > > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 12:20:04 +0000
                                    > > > > > > > > Subject: [J28Sailors] A little help from my friends, please.
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > Ok guys, I need some help, I've been racing my boat for 5 years and always had a little trouble pointing but this year has been horrible. I'm sailling 10 degrees off everyone I race againest and getting killed upwind and I can't figure out why. Downwind and off the wind I am flying. On Monday I sailed from from Block island to Newport in under 3.5 hours under spinnaker.
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > What kind of sailing angles do others get? and any tips, tricks to getting the boat to go upwind?
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > John
                                    > > > > > > > > WHALAYED
                                    > > > > > > > >
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