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569Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Shoal Draft Performance

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  • Tommy Koe
    Jul 30, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      BTW Jason, do you won a J/28?  or have you sailed on them at all??????

      From: J Smith <jason3317@...>
      To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 1:19 PM
      Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Shoal Draft Performance

       
      The J/28 has a higher center of gravity than other comparable J's of that era. The reason being they need to get accommodation volume into the hull on a 24' LWL. The deep fin keel, also uncommon on the cruising hulls during the time of the UFO keels, helped mitigate some the performance hit. Obviously, the SD gives a similar righting moment, at the expense of windward performance and (imho)...stiffness. I would think very hard before I bought a SD J/28. If you sail in skinny water....it may not be possible. But then I'd be looking at a J/95 or J/108.
      From: "Tommy" <evenflow457@...>
      Sender: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:00:09 -0000
      To: <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
      ReplyTo: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: Shoal Draft Performance

       
      I sure was hoping you would have said Shoal Draft! That is a pretty sweet finish though. These boats (at least the Fin Keels) sail well to their rating.

      Tommy

      --- In mailto:J28Sailors%40yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@...> wrote:
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      > Fin keel. Took another 1st last night. Probably blowing around 15, started out with a reefed main, took it out just before rounding the leward mark on the first pass around. The last 3 weeks we have been finishing up front with a 48' Hinckley Sw, their rating is 129, they are in the big boat fleet The RC changed the starting order the last 3 weeks, the small boats are starting with the big boats, we only have 4 small boats that show up on a regular basis out of the 8 that signed up, so the 2 cruising fleets start together but are scored separately. Roy
      > To: mailto:J28Sailors%40yahoogroups.com
      > From: evenflow457@...
      > Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 21:40:51 +0000
      > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: Shoal Draft Performance
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      > Roy,
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      > Do you have the Shoal draft or the Fin keel??
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      > Tommy
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      > --- In mailto:J28Sailors%40yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@> wrote:
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      > > We have our settings at 975 uppers and 775 lowers and with the new main and mast step change are just walking away from our competition, when the wind is over 10 knots. We have the mast base fully forward this year too. The first year we had the mast back, last year it was in the middle and this year all the way forward. If the wind is 6-8 knots, we don't do so well and under 6 we do OK. Our fleet, under 30', starts 5 minutes after the over 30' and by the end of the race we have usually passed all but 2 of the big boats, they range from 30' to 42', all but one are over 35'. We have setup the boat very close to the way the J30's in Marblehead are setup, except maybe about 100 lbs or so lighter on tension. We have a fin keel, gas grill on the stern rail, dodger, cockpit table (put away under sail), anchor stowed under the starboard settee, V-berth linens all on board. We have a fair amount of headstay sag, maybe 8-10 inches in light to medium winds before we start cranking on the backstay. We reef the main at about 14-15 knots of wind and leave the 155% up, bring the leads back, crank on the back stay and pinch (and point) crazy high in the heavier winds, using the pinching to bleed off air. We have a fairly light weight crew and race with about 5-6 people in the cruising fleet, 3 are women. We have the 155 set with 3 holes showing behind the lead. We usually out point everyone by huge amounts except for an Alerion 28 and a Baby Beneteau 235. On a good day (over 10 knots) we are even boat speed with the Alerion upwind and we are always faster downwind. We usually sail in a dying breeze on Tuesday nights, it might start out around 10-12 knots and slowly craps out. Roy
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      > > To: mailto:J28Sailors%40yahoogroups.com
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      > > From: jfws88@
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      > > Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 16:52:10 +0000
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      > > Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: Shoal Draft Performance
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      > > Interesting, When Todd measured my boat for Roy's main he asked if I sail with the rig this loose. And, he really cranked the backstay for one of the measurements. I mean pully down to the hand rail tight. I'd never seem my mast bend that much. His words,"perfectly normal"
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      > > I use the back stay alot in a breeze to help flatten the boat and ease weather helm but I never pulled it that far. Conclusion for me, my rig is too loose by all accounts here.
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      > > Dave, I'm not sure if I'll go all the my to your tuning but I will take heed of 42 years racing J boats.
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      > > --- In mailto:J28Sailors%40yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
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      > > > Tommy,
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      > > > I have a shoal draft. With my rig tuned as described, the back stay is off all the way most of the time except cranked in on heavy puffs going upwind. To the best of my knowledge, fractional rig J's always should have the lowers tighter than the uppers. In all my years of J racing (that would be 42 years), I have never seen a J mast given way or broken. Having the lowers tighter than the uppers allows the upper third of the mast to fall off in heavy air allowing the main to dump some load and the boat sails flatter. Again, all this is for fractional rigs only.
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      > > > Sent from my iPad
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      > > > David L. Hastings
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      > > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
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      > > > Crystal River, FL 34429
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      > > > Home: 352-794-6440
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      > > > Cell: 315-345-2078
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      > > > On Jul 3, 2012, at 8:22 AM, Tommy Koe <evenflow457@> wrote:
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      > > > > David,
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      > > > > Do you have a shoal draft or the 5' version?
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      > > > > That makes sense that you are faster upwind than downwind. With the rig that tight, you are not allowing it sag or bend forward when sailing downwind. However, don't ease you backstay too much downwind though. With the lowers on hard, the mast could snap in moderate conditions. I am curious though, with the lowers tighter than the uppers, do you find yourself needing to ease the main to stay powered up when sailing upwind?
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      > > > > JP,
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      > > > > You definitely want to move your mast step back. That gives your main better shape and allows more draft when needed in light stuff and in chop. As far as sag, on an older gennie, you can tighten your halyard a more than with a new one. This will move the draft forward as you always fighting the draft moving aft in older sails.
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      > > > > I am getting all pumped up about these boats and I don't have one, YET!!
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      > > > > Tommy
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      > > > > From: David Hastings <david.hastings@>
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      > > > > To: "mailto:J28Sailors%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:J28Sailors%40yahoogroups.com>
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      > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 7:38 AM
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      > > > > Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Shoal Draft Performance
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      > > > > John, pointing has always been my strength. My losses have always been down wind. I am not a numbers guy. I've always been a seat of the pants sailor. I've set up my boat the same as I tuned my J29 as follows:
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      > > > > Head stay is at maximum length and mast has a slight rake. Mast step it not all the way forward. I'd guess it's about 1"ahead of center. Making sure everything is neutral and mast is centered, I pull on the back stay as hard and far as possible. Next, I tighten the uppers until the back stay begins to loosen a bit so the uppers are real tight. Now I release the back stay and the mast in really bent. Next I tighten the lowers until the prebend is pretty much gone and the mast looks as straight as possible. Now the lowers are tighter than the uppers and they are both pretty darn tight. I have never used a gauge. This has always worked well for me on the J29 for upwind performance in all conditions.
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      > > > > As far as the sails go, I had a 155 on my J29 and seldom reduced sail but usually had a crew of 7. I have only a 135 on my J28 and It's in poor condition.
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      > > > > I usually do best with the main strapped in hard and the boom slightly to windward of center. If higher pointing is needed in close situations, I pull the traveler over more to windward which, of course, slows the boat but usually allows me to get up and get by the problem.
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      > > > > I'm still too new to the 28 to know whether or not this set up will work as well as it did on the 29 but so far it appears to be doing the trick so I'm sticking with it until I find the need of something different.
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      > > > > Sent from my iPad
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      > > > > David L. Hastings
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      > > > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
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      > > > > Crystal River, FL 34429
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      > > > > Home: 352-794-6440
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      > > > > Cell: 315-345-2078
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      > > > > On Jul 3, 2012, at 6:38 AM, John Power <sailingmaster@> wrote:
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      > > > >> I would be interested in some accurate tuning numbers as well, particularly a rake measurement. Currently I have my mast step max forward and about 900 on my uppers and 750 on the lowers.
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      > > > >> I would like to see the mast bend a little lower and wonder if som blocks at the mast partner would help.
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      > > > >> Also how much sag do you carry in the head stay?
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      > > > >> I have 4-5 inches I would say and am our Iu adjustment on the RF
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      > > > >> I gave raced the boat much, but I know the old genoa needs to be replaced before I can comment on pointing. I use the 135 as well the 150 overpowers the boat quickly in any breeze
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      > > > >> JP
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      > > > >> Sent from my iPhone
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      > > > >> On Jul 3, 2012, at 6:09 AM, John <jfws88@> wrote:
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      > > > >>> Dave, Interesting, pointing has always been my weakness. Do you have any numbers on your rig set-up? And are you useing a 150% genny. I find I point best with the boom pointed at the leward backstay, not on center. I use a 135% genny and tune my rig to about 80% of the recommended J30 settings. When I don't do well in a race it's almost always due to looses upwind.
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      > > > >>>
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      > > > >>> John
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      > > > >>> --- In mailto:J28Sailors%40yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
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      > > > >>> >
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      > > > >>> > Haven't gotten my shoal draft J race ready yet so no formal racing to date but I have had several opportunities to buff with a local S2 racer who usually takes home the gold and I can beat the hell out of him upwind. I point higher and go faster and that's before getting my new main.
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      > > > >>> >
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      > > > >>> > Sent from my iPad
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      > > > >>> >
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      > > > >>> > David L. Hastings
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      > > > >>> > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
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      > > > >>> > Crystal River, FL 34429
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      > >
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      > > > >>> > Home: 352-794-6440
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      > >
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      > > > >>> > Cell: 315-345-2078
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      > > > >>> >
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      > > > >>> > On Jul 2, 2012, at 3:10 PM, "Tommy" <evenflow457@> wrote:
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      > > > >>> > > Hey J28'ers,
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      > > > >>> > > Looking for more input on the racing performance of the shoal draft model? I want to mainly cruz, but i still have the "racing bug" urge to race around the bouys.
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      > > > >>> > > Any thoughts??
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      > > > >>> > > Tx Tommy
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