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Re: [J-mtDNA] Re: Jewish subclade

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  • Josh Weinstein
    Too bad the findings were not more definite. Were your close but not exact matches also Jewish ________________________________ From: anouch
    Message 1 of 64 , Oct 21 7:35 PM
      Too bad the findings were not more definite. Were your close but not exact matches also Jewish

      From: anouch <avgraz@...>
      To: J-mtDNA@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 5:05 PM
      Subject: [J-mtDNA] Re: Jewish subclade
       
      I am Cluster E-M84*-Misc, but I have a complete exact match with just one person, a Jewish Italian.

      --- In mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@...> wrote:
      >
      > I  think you can get a clearer answer on your father's line than on your mother's line. Just go to the E M35 phylogeny project.  Your STR haplotype can only match one of the five clusters of your father's subclade . The cluster that you match will provide clear information.
      >  
      > Do you have Mtdna HVR 2 matches----they may be more important than HVR 1.
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: anouch <avgraz@...>
      > To: mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 2:28 PM
      > Subject: [J-mtDNA] Re: Jewish subclade
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      > About my father's background, we aren't numerous. I show you my exact matches http://imageshack.us/a/img41/8550/groupydna1.png
      > http://imageshack.us/a/img189/9370/groupydna.png
      > I know there is an Italian Jew, who is exact match and he 's E1b1b1c1a. There are obviously Armenians (names finishing by ian/yan) and Arabs. Maybe Perelman is a Jewish name,there are an another Italian,a Spanish .I don't know for others, maybe there are Ashkenazi. Besides, I have read E1b1b1c1a is probably Abraham's haplogroup and Canaan's descendants.
      > Unfortunately, I can't conclude something with my paternal line. To sort these things out I ordered a mtDNARefine, I will have results next week.
      >
      > --- In mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Anouch,
      > >               I would think that there is a good chance that you have Mizrachi origins but I am far from certain. Only one third of your HVR 1 matches are identified as Mizrachi (or Jewish). It is possible that some of your other matches are of
      > > Mizrachi origin but are not identified as such.  However with two thirds of your matches not identified, I would be hesitant to reach a conclusion especially if the subclade has not yet been identified. You can get more certainty about your father's background by comparing your Y dna haplotype with the five haplotype clusters listed at the E M35 Phylogeny Project.
      > >                                                                           à ‚ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Josh
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: anouch <avgraz@>
      > > To: mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 2:32 PM
      > > Subject: [J-mtDNA] Re: Jewish subclade
      > >
      > >
      > >  
      > >
      > > Hi,
      > > I don't know if you have see my mtdna matches http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3329/groupemtdna.png
      > > According to you, can we conclude a Jewish ancestry?
      > > About my father's subclade, it isn't enough to conclude something
      > >
      > > --- In mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Do you have Jewish matches on either line.  The E M35 Phylogeny Project reported five clusters (using cluster analysis of STRs) of your father's subclade. Three were Jewish, one was non Jewish European and one was Arab. Behar found Mtdna J among Mizrachis but the study was not designed to determine if the patterns were uniquely Jewish----it did not include Jewish and Muslim comparison groups within the same country.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ________________________________
      > > > From: anouch <avgraz@>
      > > > To: mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 2:00 PM
      > > > Subject: [J-mtDNA] Re: Jewish subclade
      > > >
      > > >  
      > > >
      > > > According to Igenea, I am Jewish by my maternal line and Jewish or Arab or Kabyl by my paternal lineage. I am none of them. --- In mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@> wrote: > > The conclusion that you have Jewish origins appears to be based solely on your father's Y dna line. I have limited understanding of E1b1b but I think his subclade is mainly found among Jews both Mizrachi and Ashkenazi. > > > > ________________________________ > From: anouch <avgraz@> > To: mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 8:27 AM > Subject: [J-mtDNA] Re: Jewish subclade > > > ÃÆ'‚  > > Thank you > > --- In mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@> wrote: > > > > > > Your father's subclade is found among Jews. Overall Eibib is the thirdÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  most common Ashkenazi line but I don't know about Mizrachis > > > > > >
      > ________________________________ > > From: anouch <avgraz@> >
      > > > To:
      > > > mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 12:42 PM > > Subject: [J-mtDNA] Re: Jewish subclade > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  > > > > I mean Mtdna J subclade and not Ashkenazi but Mizrahi Jews, I don't know yet my exact subclade. My father line is E1B1B1C1A, may be it's also common amongs Jews --- In mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@> wrote: > > Do you mean the Y dna J subclade. That male line is common among Jews (about 40% of Ashkenazi) but the overwhelmingÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  majority of Y dna Js are not Jewish. > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  > Mtdna J only occurs in about 8% of Ashkenazi Jews.ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  The vast majority of mtdna Js are also not
      > Jewish.ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  Mtdna J began in the Middle East. However the most common Jewish J subclade is J1c. J1c is not at all common in the Levantine coast
      > > and probably entered the Jewish population in eastern Europe. > > > >
      > > > ________________________________ > From: anouch <avgraz@> > To: mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:37 AM > Subject: [J-mtDNA] Jewish subclade > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  > > Hi Guys, > does J can > be considered as a > > Jewish subclade? According to Igenea, I am classified as Jewish > Thanks to reply > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >

    • Josh Weinstein
      I will be brief since this is not about Mtdna. The three most common Jewish Y dna haplogroups are J2, J1 and E1b1b.  E1b1b is from Africa and was probably
      Message 64 of 64 , Oct 29 8:06 AM
        I will be brief since this is not about Mtdna. The three most common Jewish Y dna haplogroups are J2, J1 and E1b1b.  E1b1b is from Africa and was probably first in the Levant. J1 and J2 were originally from the northern part of the Middle East and migrated later.

        From: Anna <avgraz@...>
        To: J-mtDNA@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 5:28 AM
        Subject: [J-mtDNA] Re: Jewish subclade
         
        Thank you for your link
        About YDNA, I found something very intersting that concerns me

        <<Other Y-chromosome findings show that the world's Jewish communities are closely related to Kurds, Turks and Armenians,[48][54] the hypothesis being that "Jews, Kurds, Armenians and Anatolian Turks all carry the genetic markers of ancient indigenous populations of the Fertile Crescent,>>

        About MtDNA, they didn't write something about Mizrachi Jews.

        --- In mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com, j sanjose <jsanjose_a@...> wrote:
        >
        > Interesting site talking about all this...
        >  
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews#Male_lineages:_Y_chromosomal_DNA
        >  
        >  
        >
        >
        > From: Judy Benedict <jjbenedict_99@...>
        > To: mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 7:47 AM
        > Subject: Re: [J-mtDNA] Re: Jewish subclade
        >
        >  
        > I agree, it's a case of mega paranoia.  I am J1c2 & was intrigued & pleased by the fact that I could be distantly related to my Jewish friends.  We are all one is how I look at it.
        >
        > --- On Thu, 10/25/12, Susan Hedeen <chantillycarpets@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > >From: Susan Hedeen <chantillycarpets@...>
        > >Subject: Re: [J-mtDNA] Re: Jewish subclade
        > >To: mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com
        > >Date: Thursday, October 25, 2012, 11:01 AM
        > >
        > >
        > > 
        > >Oh, please....a conspiracy to wipe out descendants from all over the world who may carry a mt haplogroup containing in part the tag "J" from a bearer who may have lived 19,000 years ago in our result case?Forgive me if this sounds politically incorrect and perhaps insensitive, but this comment below in my opinion is a stretch in logic if not a bit incendiary.  SusanOn 10/24/2012 11:00 PM, r wrote:
        > > 
        > >>You know, considering that the Genographic Project at National Geographic is being data-coordinated by IBM, who used to be the Hollerith Corporation whose worked for the Nazis to design a punch-card system so that they could identify, track, and exterminate Jews more efficiently, I can't help but wonder the following:
        > >>
        > >>Is this whole burgeoning "DNA ancestry" industry operating around some ulterior motive to genetically identify who are "the sneaky Jews" in the world? Because I'm more than a little concerned by the fact that our "J" haplotype might really stand for "Jew" in a haplotype that, apparently, is heavily Jewish -- despite the official pronouncements as to why that letter was chosen for our particular group.
        > >>
        > >>I certainly hope this isn't all some global "Hunt the Jew" project, and we've all been seduced into voluntarily paying for our own genocidal doom...
        > >>
        > >>Just a thought.
        > >>
        > >>--- In mailto:J-mtDNA%40yahoogroups.com, "anouch" <avgraz@> wrote:
        > >>>
        > >>> Hi Guys,
        > >>> does J can be considered as a Jewish subclade? According to Igenea, I am classified as Jewish
        > >>> Thanks to reply
        > >>>
        > >>
        > >>
        >

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