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3057Fw: Re: [J-mtDNA] Phylo Tree Mtdna Build 15

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  • Josh Weinstein
    Dec 5, 2013

      On Thursday, December 5, 2013 11:40 AM, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@...> wrote:
      From a technical standpoint, new discoveries could lead to a change in the  definition of Mtdna J if RSRS is used as the reference. First the big picture, with generations measured by thousands of years Mtdna J is the 'great granddaughter' of the African line L3.  In turn L3 is the 'granddaughter' of RSRS.
      RSRS is the  hypothetical haplotype of the last common ancestor of all extant modern humans. Note that the earliest common ancestor of all extant humans probably lived thousands of years before 170,000 years ago when RSRS supposedly lived. The recent Mtdna discovery is of a group that lived around 400,000 years ago. They were probably pre-Neanderthals but this issue has not been resolved. 400,000 years ago is a crucial point in human history since it is roughly the point when the modern human line separated from Neanderthals, i.e. the era when the most recent common ancestor of Neanderthals and humans lived. (Ironically modern humans are closer to pre-Neandertals than they are to Neanderthals of 40,000 years ago since more recent Neandertals mutated away from the common ancestor).
      There has been no report on whether the 400,000 year old Mtdna resembles RSRS----there should be some overlap. The point is that there may well be more discoveries of human line Mtdna in the period between 400,000 years and the appearance of RSRS or her 'grandmother' the first common ancestor of modern humans.  Since the RSRS haplotype is hypothetical, it should be revised in light of empirical discoveries. This in turn will lead to a change in the mutation definition of Mtdna J.


      On Wednesday, December 4, 2013 7:50 PM, Josh Weinstein <jgw111@...> wrote:
       Mitochondrial Eve----Scientists are getting closer to the dna pattern of Mitochondrial Eve.  The reference sequence RSRS is based on the hypothetical pattern for 'Eve' who presumably lived around 170,000 years ago. RSRS belongs to clade L*---it predates L0 and L1-6. RSRS is assumed to have evolved (mutated) after humans separated from Neanderthals. Scientists have just discovered  the Mtdna pattern of a group of hominins related to Neanderthals that is 400,000 years old---the mtdna pattern was not described.    

      On Saturday, November 30, 2013 12:40 PM, "hannahlloyd@..." <hannahlloyd@...> wrote:
      Does anyone know of a list that indicates what each of the mutations represents?
      For instance, my results, J2a1a1a2 show that a mutation (430T) keeps me from matching with 
      J2a1a1a3.  Am curious. 

      ---In J-mtDNA@yahoogroups.com, <jgw111@...> wrote:

      Jim, thanks. My mistake, I didn't realize that Behar's proposal had become semi-official.

      On Friday, November 29, 2013 11:51 PM, J. J. (Jim) Logan <jjlnv@...> wrote:
      David and All:

      There are now two reference sequences:  the revised Cambridge Reference Sequence (rCRS) that has been around for several years and the more recent Reconstructed Sapiens Reference Sequence (RSRS).  Marker values for positions 12705 and 16223 are different for the two references.  FTDNA reports results against each standard and Phylotree has a separate version for each.  Thus, be very careful when comparing FTDNA results with Phylotree that the references match.

      J. J. (Jim) Logan
      Group Administrator, J-mtDNA and Logan DNA Projects at FTDNA
      Moderator, J-mtDNA and GenGen-NV Discussion Groups on Yahoo
      On 11/29/2013 10:50 PM, David & Diana Laufer wrote:
      I assume that when anyone who knows their sub-clade their results would show all the markers from higher up the Phylo Tree to which you referred.
      As I have done the full sequence mtDNA test at FTDNA my mtDNA has been categorised as J1b2.
      I have all the markers for that sub-clade and for those all the way up to, and including, R2’JT as indicated on that tree.
      However, my results do not show the markers 12705C and 16223C indicated for the next higher level, namely R.
      Could you please explain ?
      From: J-mtDNA@yahoogroups.com [mailto:J-mtDNA@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Josh Weinstein
      Sent: Saturday, 30 November 2013 5:37 AM
      To: J-mtDNA@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [J-mtDNA] Re: Request: Include kit number with correspondence
      Members, note that you can find much information on your own. Go to Phylo Tree Mtdna Build 15. The mutations that define many specific subclades are listed there.

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