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Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Digest Number 196-Bodice straps/draping

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  • Denise Robello
    Hi, ... Thayer wrote: ... would I be able to achieve the falling off of the shoulder look with separate straps? I work alone most of the
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 15, 2003
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      Hi,

      --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "Karrissa
      Thayer" <anabela@m...> wrote:>

      > So should I not make the bodice and straps of the same fabric? How
      would I be able to achieve the "falling off of the shoulder" look
      with separate straps?

      I work alone most of the time, so a lot of the techniques I've
      developed would go faster if you have someone to help you. Some
      people start with a toile (light weight linen draping). I skip that
      for bodices when I'm starting from scratch. I start with a mock-up
      out of heavy duck or canvas - something that doesn't stretch. I wear
      a sports bra to get the period compressed look and to help pull the
      girls up (if necessary) as the fitting progresses. Since this phase
      is part of developing the pattern, I don't think of the canvas as
      though it's going to be physically incorporated into the end product.
      Pin the bodice in so that it fits you. Then mess with the shoulder
      straps after that.

      If my shoulder straps don't come out right on the first pass, I cut
      the front ones off. Since my back isn't going to be compressing and
      shifting like my front, I leave the shoulder straps in the back alone
      because they're a lot more predictable. I then take a strip of canvas
      and pin it to end of the back strap where it emerges at the top of my
      shoulder. I use one heavy duty pin so that my newly attached piece
      can have some freedom to rotate as I work. Then I stand in front of a
      mirror and work on flat-pinning the end of the strap to the
      side/front of my bodice. Once I find this spot. I put a few pins in
      it so that it won't wiggle or twist. Then I add a few more pins at
      the top of the shoulder where the front and back connect so that
      there's no rotation or wiggle up there. I may even pull out the first
      pin and smooth the two pieces out if they've bunched up and then re-
      pin them. Then I either cut myself out of it or unpin it, depending
      on if I've got center front opening or not.

      If you want the canvas to be part of the final product, sew down the
      front shoulder straps to a spot near the neck line of the bodice.
      Trim excess seam allowance from the shoulder strap. Trace the final
      canvas (so you can save the pattern). The canvas can then become your
      inter-lining for your final bodice. When you cut your nicer fabric,
      the shoulder straps will attach at the top of the shoulder and not at
      the front of the bodice.

      Clear as mud? I hope it helps anyways.

      Ascelin
    • Denise Robello
      ... I should add that after I ve worked all this stuff out on my own, my back, shoulder and neck muscles get really tense. I don t know if this sort of thing
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 15, 2003
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        --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "Denise
        Robello" <drobello@n...> wrote:
        > I work alone most of the time, so a lot of the techniques I've
        > developed would go faster if you have someone to help you.

        I should add that after I've worked all this stuff out on my own, my
        back, shoulder and neck muscles get really tense. I don't know if
        this sort of thing matters to others, but in my experience tensing up
        during a fitting has a big impact on how my bodices fit. If I go
        straight from mock-up to "cutting da' fabric" at this point, I
        usually end up with a dress that fits great when I'm flexing my
        shoulders or rolling them forward, but not so well when I'm relaxed.
        Of course, I get a genuine "almost off the shoulder look" since
        that's what the garment is trying to do, but I don't like to have to
        fuss with my clothes once they're on. I want them to sit the way I
        expect them to sit and not have independent agendas. To prevent this,
        I've learned to set aside the project for a day and then come back to
        it to see how it fits. When I come back to it, if it still fits
        right, then I start cutting. Otherwise I usually end up adjusting the
        top of the shoulders a little bit to get a better fit.

        Ascelin
      • Giana Visconti
        Greetings! I am finally going to be able to make myself a cloak. Hurray! No more freezing at events when the sun goes down. I am picking up the wool tonight.
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 17, 2003
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          Greetings!

          I am finally going to be able to make myself a cloak.
          Hurray! No more freezing at events when the sun goes
          down. I am picking up the wool tonight. What I'm
          trying to decide is whether or not to put a hood on
          the cloak. I am not finding much information anywhere
          on what would have been the appropriate style in
          period. My persona is late period Florentine with
          strong Venetian connections. Any information or input
          anyone has would be wonderful. Thank you!

          Giana Visconti

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        • Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albiz
          I haven t seen anything with a hooded cloak pic. AFAIK, they don t have attached hoods. But I know Aoda had a bunch of cloak pics... Try her new website,
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 17, 2003
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            I haven't seen anything with a hooded cloak pic. AFAIK, they don't have
            attached hoods. But I know Aoda had a bunch of cloak pics... Try her new
            website, http://www.florentine-persona.com

            Apollonia

            Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi
            Kingdom of Atlantia
            www.livejournal.com/users/apollonia

            **La vita senz'onore e un viver morto.**
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Giana Visconti [mailto:giana1008@...]
            Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:56 PM
            To: Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Cloaks--hoods or no hoods?


            Greetings!

            I am finally going to be able to make myself a cloak.
            Hurray! No more freezing at events when the sun goes
            down. I am picking up the wool tonight. What I'm
            trying to decide is whether or not to put a hood on
            the cloak. I am not finding much information anywhere
            on what would have been the appropriate style in
            period. My persona is late period Florentine with
            strong Venetian connections. Any information or input
            anyone has would be wonderful. Thank you!

            Giana Visconti

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          • ivinian
            ... One of the pictures I have at my site does have some men wearing what I strongly suspect are hooded cloaks (check here --
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 17, 2003
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              --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Giana Visconti
              <giana1008@y...> wrote:
              > Greetings!
              >
              > I am finally going to be able to make myself a cloak.
              > Hurray! No more freezing at events when the sun goes
              > down. I am picking up the wool tonight. What I'm
              > trying to decide is whether or not to put a hood on
              > the cloak. I am not finding much information anywhere
              > on what would have been the appropriate style in
              > period. My persona is late period Florentine with
              > strong Venetian connections. Any information or input
              > anyone has would be wonderful. Thank you!
              >
              > Giana Visconti

              One of the pictures I have at my site does have some men wearing what
              I strongly suspect are hooded cloaks (check here --
              http://www.florentine-persona.com/menflorence2.html ). Overall,
              though, I don't see many hoods either. (The Great Cloak Project can
              now begin again, now that all the winter messiness is over, and I
              have lots more pics to put up.) I think that the headgear worn might
              have discouraged hoods (particularly the Medici-style rollbrim hats).
              Refined ladies were said to wear "mantellos" that covered them from
              stem to stern when they went out in public, though, and I'm sure they
              had some form of hood on them. Otherwise they'd be big blanket-
              looking things, and that kind of sloppiness doesn't fit my idea of
              Florentine garb.

              Vangelista
              http://www.florentine-persona.com
            • Giana Visconti
              ... Thank you! What a great site. Giana __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 18, 2003
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                --- Signora Apollonia Margherita degli Albizzi
                <apollonia@...> wrote:
                > I haven't seen anything with a hooded cloak pic.
                > AFAIK, they don't have
                > attached hoods. But I know Aoda had a bunch of
                > cloak pics... Try her new
                > website, http://www.florentine-persona.com
                >
                > Apollonia

                Thank you! What a great site.

                Giana

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              • Giana Visconti
                ... Thank you. From looking at your site, and the responses to my question, I have decided to go hoodless. :) Now that that s settled, all I have to do is
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 18, 2003
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                  --- ivinian <ivinian@...> wrote:
                  >Overall,
                  > though, I don't see many hoods either. (The Great
                  > Cloak Project can
                  > now begin again, now that all the winter messiness
                  > is over, and I
                  > have lots more pics to put up.) I think that the
                  > headgear worn might
                  > have discouraged hoods (particularly the
                  > Medici-style rollbrim hats).

                  Thank you. From looking at your site, and the
                  responses to my question, I have decided to go
                  hoodless. :) Now that that's settled, all I have to
                  do is decide on lining fabric and trim! I sense a
                  trip to the fabric store coming on. . . Thanks again!

                  Giana

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                • Gerita
                  this is a wonderful site!! Well done. Gerita - website, http://www.florentine-persona.com
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 19, 2003
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                    this is a wonderful site!! Well done.

                    Gerita

                    -> > website, http://www.florentine-persona.com
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