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Fabric colour query

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  • Aly/Cemper
    Whilst on my travels I was able to secure a very lovely rust dupioni silk (for the dress) and a gold stripped dupioni with a scroll pattern (as an underskirt).
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 9, 2012
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      Whilst on my travels I was able to secure a very lovely rust dupioni silk (for the dress) and a gold stripped dupioni with a scroll pattern (as an underskirt). My crowning glory was the hand woven and hand beaded grey silk. I could only afford one yard and thought I'd use it for sleeves.

      Here is the dilemma, I cannot find any evidence that different colours were used for garb in the Italian style. Most of the portraits show women whose dresses are all one colour except for the later Italian dresses with the stiff collars and occasionally I find a secondary colour for the bottom of a sleeve.

      I'd like to create the dress so that it laces in the front similar to the Lady in Pink 1518 c. with the green sleeves and the opening in the 1530's. Is there evidence for a dress with three different colours in the early to late 1500's in the style I want? Am I shooting for a period dress or a peri-oid dress? I've checked a lot of pictures and so far, most of the dresses are a singular colour with the front opening and a contrasting ribbon. One colour or many?

      Thanks,

      Cemper

       
      One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • otsisto
      Cemper, is this the pink with green sleeves that you are talking about? http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Lady1535.JPG This is two different
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 9, 2012
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        Cemper, is this the pink with green sleeves that you are talking about?
        http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Lady1535.JPG

        This is two different fabrics for the bodice and the skirt
        http://festiveattyre.com/research/florentine/flor13.html

        This is most likely applique but it might be patchwork
        http://festiveattyre.com/research/secondflor/secflor33.html

        2 colors
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lorenzo_Lotto_046.jpg

        De

        -----Original Message-----
        Whilst on my travels I was able to secure a very lovely rust dupioni silk
        (for the dress) and a gold stripped dupioni with a scroll pattern (as an
        underskirt). My crowning glory was the hand woven and hand beaded grey silk.
        I could only afford one yard and thought I'd use it for sleeves.
        Here is the dilemma, I cannot find any evidence that different colours were
        used for garb in the Italian style. Most of the portraits show women whose
        dresses are all one colour except for the later Italian dresses with the
        stiff collars and occasionally I find a secondary colour for the bottom of a
        sleeve.
        I'd like to create the dress so that it laces in the front similar to the
        Lady in Pink 1518 c. with the green sleeves and the opening in the 1530's.
        Is there evidence for a dress with three different colours in the early to
        late 1500's in the style I want? Am I shooting for a period dress or a
        peri-oid dress? I've checked a lot of pictures and so far, most of the
        dresses are a singular colour with the front opening and a contrasting
        ribbon. One colour or many?

        Thanks,

        Cemper
      • Aly/Cemper
        Cemper, is this the pink with green sleeves that you are talking about? http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Lady1535.JPG
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 10, 2012
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          Cemper, is this the pink with green sleeves that you are talking about?
          http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Lady1535.JPG
          <<Yes.Sorry my adjective use is on the blitz so thank you for figuring it out :)>>

          This is two different fabrics for the bodice and the skirt
          http://festiveattyre.com/research/florentine/flor13.html
          <<<thank you!! That is even the sleeve look that I'm looking for>>>
          This is most likely applique but it might be patchwork
          http://festiveattyre.com/research/secondflor/secflor33.html
          <<I have not seen this picture before (nor the other) would the puff have ended above the elbow or below it? I also noted that the camica has cuffed sleeves, is that period for the Florentine dresses?
          2 colors
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lorenzo_Lotto_046.jpg
          Thanks De! This will be only my second Italian and I want to get it right.

          ~Cemper
           
          One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



          ________________________________
          From: otsisto <otsisto@...>
          To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 10:28 PM
          Subject: RE: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Fabric colour query


           
          Cemper, is this the pink with green sleeves that you are talking about?
          http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Lady1535.JPG

          This is two different fabrics for the bodice and the skirt
          http://festiveattyre.com/research/florentine/flor13.html

          This is most likely applique but it might be patchwork
          http://festiveattyre.com/research/secondflor/secflor33.html

          2 colors
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lorenzo_Lotto_046.jpg

          De

          -----Original Message-----





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ann Catelli
          When I look under the female donor s left elbow (her left), I see some patterning in the skirt, on the last fold only. Anyone else? Because if it s patterned,
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 10, 2012
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            When I look under the female donor's left elbow (her left), I see some patterning in the skirt, on the last fold only.

            Anyone else?

            Because if it's patterned, I believe it's the same fabric as the bodice & sleeves, also known as a full dress, and an incredibly rich & luxurious apron.

            Ann in CT



            ________________________________
            From: Aly/Cemper <tolkienscholar@...>

            This is two different fabrics for the bodice and the skirt
            http://festiveattyre.com/research/florentine/flor13.html
            > De
            <<<thank you!! That is even the sleeve look that I'm looking for>>>

            ~Cemper


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Aly/Cemper
            Good eye. I see the pattern but it seems a bit darker then the bodice. ~Cemper   One cannot silly-walk into Mordor. ________________________________ From: Ann
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 10, 2012
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              Good eye. I see the pattern but it seems a bit darker then the bodice.
              ~Cemper

               
              One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



              ________________________________
              From: Ann Catelli <elvestoorder@...>
              To: "Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com" <Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 1:16 PM
              Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Fabric colour query


               
              When I look under the female donor's left elbow (her left), I see some patterning in the skirt, on the last fold only.

              Anyone else?

              Because if it's patterned, I believe it's the same fabric as the bodice & sleeves, also known as a full dress, and an incredibly rich & luxurious apron.

              Ann in CT

              ________________________________
              From: Aly/Cemper <tolkienscholar@...>

              This is two different fabrics for the bodice and the skirt
              http://festiveattyre.com/research/florentine/flor13.html
              > De
              <<<thank you!! That is even the sleeve look that I'm looking for>>>

              ~Cemper

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • otsisto
              ... Cemper, is this the pink with green sleeves that you are talking about? http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Lady1535.JPG
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 11, 2012
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                -----Original Message-----
                Cemper, is this the pink with green sleeves that you are talking about?
                http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Lady1535.JPG
                <<Yes.Sorry my adjective use is on the blitz so thank you for figuring it out :)>>

                De: The above is Venetian

                This is two different fabrics for the bodice and the skirt
                http://festiveattyre.com/research/florentine/flor13.html
                <<<thank you!! That is even the sleeve look that I'm looking for>>>

                De: have tried to find the site with a larger picture. There does appear to be something of a different material at the hem. It could be the same as the bodice and sleeve and the woman is wearing an apron skirt over it or it could be trim which Venetians were known to have on their hems from time to time.

                This is most likely applique but it might be patchwork
                http://festiveattyre.com/research/secondflor/secflor33.html
                <<I have not seen this picture before (nor the other) would the puff have ended above the elbow or below it? I also noted that the camica has cuffed sleeves, is that period for the Florentine dresses?
                2 colors.

                De: These are Venetians and the puff sleeves stop at the elbow. Sometimes the upper part of the sleeve was connected to the forearm part and other time it was separate.

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lorenzo_Lotto_046.jpg
                Thanks De! This will be only my second Italian and I want to get it right.

                I do recommend if you are not planning on it,is make a mock up of the outfit with inexpensive material. This way you perfect the pattern before cutting into the good fabric.

                Some very good sites.
                Festive Attyre (Florentine)
                http://festiveattyre.com/research/index.html

                Dress diary for a 1515 Florentine
                http://festiveattyre.com/gallery/florentine/earlyflor.html

                A dress diary but not for the silk (for your third)
                http://festiveattyre.com/gallery/campi/wkclass.html

                Realm of Venus (Venice)
                http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/
                Wardrobe takes you to the paintings.
                Library is the articles
                Workbox is extant items
                Showcase gives you pictures of people" sewing achievements and sometime dress diary.

                There is another site "Oonagh's Own" but for some reason my computer doesn't like her site.

                Purple files
                http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/Kat's_Closet.html

                Artcyclopedia
                http://www.artcyclopedia.com/history/early-renaissance.html
                http://www.artcyclopedia.com/history/high-renaissance.html

                More extant garments
                http://aneafiles.webs.com/renaissancegallery/extant.html
                If you scroll down the house dress you will see a picture of a woman wearing an apron skirt.

                You might want to check out late Venetian 1400s as I believe that there are some outfits that have the bodice one color and the skirt and sleeves another. Or here
                http://tinyurl.com/25jnugy
                The woman's outer gown has a gold bodice with a red skirt.

                Then you have here,
                http://tinyurl.com/29tomy9
                The woman in the background has a green gown with gold sleeves and a goldish apron.

                Transition
                http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/LICINIOCourtald.jpg
                sleeve different color then gown. with some of the later "V" front dresses you will find something a kin to a plastron but the sleeves are the same material as the gown.

                Similar styles, the second one has her bodice open but probably has the same closure in the front.
                http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/WomanInBlue.jpg
                http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/LaBella.JPG
              • JolieH2000@AOL.com
                Hi there, I have several questions while this thread is up! Still slowly but steadily learning Italian Ren Costuming but getting stumped at figuring out how
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 11, 2012
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                  Hi there,

                  I have several questions while this thread is up! Still slowly but steadily learning Italian Ren Costuming but getting stumped at figuring out how to be able to see as many paintings as possible ala online -- and the ones you posted were ones that I had not seen but the first. So question one or request one: Any hints/clues/useful information on how to search for gowns please!?
                  And how did you know that all three dresses were from Venice?

                  It would be amazing to do something other than Florentine or Venetian -- how does one find what they were wearing in Milan or Rome or some other city state? Or is that were the wealth of painting are from and so that is the why?

                  Many thanks in advance!

                  Jolie'





                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Aly/Cemper <tolkienscholar@...>
                  To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming <Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sat, Mar 10, 2012 4:17 pm
                  Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Fabric colour query





                  Cemper, is this the pink with green sleeves that you are talking about?
                  http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Lady1535.JPG
                  <<Yes.Sorry my adjective use is on the blitz so thank you for figuring it out :)>>

                  This is two different fabrics for the bodice and the skirt
                  http://festiveattyre.com/research/florentine/flor13.html
                  <<<thank you!! That is even the sleeve look that I'm looking for>>>
                  This is most likely applique but it might be patchwork
                  http://festiveattyre.com/research/secondflor/secflor33.html
                  <<I have not seen this picture before (nor the other) would the puff have ended above the elbow or below it? I also noted that the camica has cuffed sleeves, is that period for the Florentine dresses?
                  2 colors
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lorenzo_Lotto_046.jpg
                  Thanks De! This will be only my second Italian and I want to get it right.

                  ~Cemper

                  One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.

                  ________________________________
                  From: otsisto <otsisto@...>
                  To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 10:28 PM
                  Subject: RE: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Fabric colour query



                  Cemper, is this the pink with green sleeves that you are talking about?
                  http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Lady1535.JPG

                  This is two different fabrics for the bodice and the skirt
                  http://festiveattyre.com/research/florentine/flor13.html

                  This is most likely applique but it might be patchwork
                  http://festiveattyre.com/research/secondflor/secflor33.html

                  2 colors
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lorenzo_Lotto_046.jpg

                  De

                  -----Original Message-----

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • lilinah@earthlink.net
                  De wrote: SNIP ... SNIP ... Since GeoCities was ended, Oonagh s extensive site has, to the best of my knowledge, never been fully recreated. Some of it is
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 11, 2012
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                    De wrote:
                    SNIP
                    > Some very good sites.
                    SNIP
                    > There is another site "Oonagh's Own" but for some reason my computer doesn't
                    > like her site.

                    Since GeoCities was ended, Oonagh's extensive site has, to the best of my knowledge, never been fully recreated. Some of it is accessible via:
                    http://webspace.webring.com/people/lo/oonaghsown/

                    Fiametta Basilio
                  • Susan B. Farmer
                    ... Here s an album of stuff that I ve found http://pics.livejournal.com/florentinescot/gallery/00011350 Jerusha -- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com Abraham
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 11, 2012
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                      On 3/9/2012 6:27 PM, Aly/Cemper wrote:
                      > Whilst on my travels I was able to secure a very lovely rust dupioni silk (for the dress) and a gold stripped dupioni with a scroll pattern (as an underskirt). My crowning glory was the hand woven and hand beaded grey silk. I could only afford one yard and thought I'd use it for sleeves.
                      >
                      > Here is the dilemma, I cannot find any evidence that different colours were used for garb in the Italian style. Most of the portraits show women whose dresses are all one colour except for the later Italian dresses with the stiff collars and occasionally I find a secondary colour for the bottom of a sleeve.
                      >

                      Here's an album of stuff that I've found

                      http://pics.livejournal.com/florentinescot/gallery/00011350

                      Jerusha
                      --
                      Susan Farmer
                      sfarmer@...
                      Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
                      Division of Science and Math
                      http://www.abac.edu/sfarmer/
                      http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
                    • otsisto
                      Usually you can guess where it is from by the artist and where he was when he or she was painting. Also after a while you get the feel of the styles and their
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 12, 2012
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                        Usually you can guess where it is from by the artist and where he was when he or she was painting. Also after a while you get the feel of the styles and their origins. For example Venice in the late 1400s was high waisted and Florence of that period was a bit above the natural waistline.
                        Yes, there are paintings of women from other City States (this is what they were called as Italy was not as we know it now) I have noticed in looking through many paintings that because Venice and Florence were strong City States, they seem to set the fashion style for their surrounding areas.
                        Realm of Venus is a good place to start out and then once you get familiar with things you can search for your town. Not all of the pictures are of Venice that are on the RoV. Peruse through RoV, first as the Artcyclopedia is long and you have to weed through A LOT.

                        De
                        aka: Donna Alessandra Cicilia di Anselmo da Parma

                        -----Original Message-----
                        Hi there,

                        I have several questions while this thread is up! Still slowly but steadily learning Italian Ren Costuming but getting stumped at figuring out how to be able to see as many paintings as possible ala online -- and the ones you posted were ones that I had not seen but the first. So question one or request one: Any hints/clues/useful information on how to search for gowns please!?
                        And how did you know that all three dresses were from Venice?

                        It would be amazing to do something other than Florentine or Venetian -- how does one find what they were wearing in Milan or Rome or some other city state? Or is that were the wealth of painting are from and so that is the why?

                        Many thanks in advance!

                        Jolie'
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