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Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Another thing not often seen in the SCA - Italian Matrons in Black

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  • borderlands15213
    Bedouin is the...Arabic, I think?...word for people who live in the desert. I know there s a nomadic group in Turkey whose tents are black, and made of
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 1, 2011
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      "Bedouin" is the...Arabic, I think?...word for "people who live in the desert."

      I know there's a nomadic group in Turkey whose tents are black, and made of natural, undyed goat hair from the nomads' black goats. If the bedouin tents are black, are they dyed black, or are they natural-colored wool? (They are wool; that much I do know, and they're not closely woven: they filter the sunlight, rather than block it. Rain resistance isn't much of an issue---obviously.)

      Now, I might be mistaken or mis-remembering, but I'd thought (or "I have thought") for quite a long time that the Tuareg wear clothing dyed with indigo, and sometimes the dye is extremely dark, appearing black at a distance. It's from the dye, however, that they get their sobriquet "The Blue People" because the stuff comes off and stains their skin.


      Yseult the Gentle



      --- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Lynne Tolton <ldtolton@...> wrote:
      >
      > hmmm. . . I'm thinking about the folks in the black tents, Tuareg maybe and
      > perhaps Bedoin? ?? . . .or is that all fiction and movies?
      >
      >
      > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Chris Catalfamo
      > <catalfamo1190@...>wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > how prevalent is black among which desert people?
      > >
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
      > > [mailto:Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lynne
      > > Tolton
      > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 1:34 PM
      > >
      > > To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Another thing not often seen
      > > in
      > > the SCA - Italian Matrons in Black
      > >
      > > Yup. . . but how or why do the desert people do it?
      > >
      > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Chris Catalfamo <
      > > catalfamo1190@...
      > > > wrote:
      > >
      > > > **
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Be sure to READ Vecellio's descriptions and look carefully at the
      > > > woodcuts..
      > > > There are many classes of women who wore black: Courtesans and
      > > > prostitutes, young Venetian noblewomen, middle class matrons, "the
      > > shameful poor"
      > > > (usually formerly rich women with a change of luck." and more. I love
      > > > Black but the heat aspect is still daunting.
      > > >
      > > > _____
      > > >
      > > > From: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
      > > > [mailto:Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      > > > Jacki/erica
      > > > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 9:22 AM
      > > >
      > > > To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Another thing not often
      > > > seen in the SCA - Italian Matrons in Black
      > > >
      > > > The topic of mature women seems to be revolving around widows but what
      > > > if you are not said widow - what would you wear?
      > > >
      > > > Elspeth Bouchannane
      > > > Oertha West
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • otsisto
      Sorry, late coming in on this. ... De: This is broad brushing with SCA and
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 4, 2011
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        Sorry, late coming in on this.

        -----Original Message-----
        <<SEE They're ALWAYS in the pictures. But we in the SCA just don't do
        matrons. >>>

        De: This is broad brushing with SCA and not true. I have found that cultures
        vary in what would identify a woman as a matron. Matron is usually a
        middle-aged woman, usually married. Matron does not mean that the woman is
        widowed.

        <<< Now how EXACTLY are you going to know that I'm the woman in charge if I
        dress like a teen age girl all the time.>>>

        De: Please show examples of what you are speaking about. I have noted the
        matrons in the paintings.
        If you look through the Realms of Venus picture galleries you will see
        matrons wearing similar gowns as the maidens, though there are subtle
        differences, those differences may be due to matron status, region, or
        fashion creativity.

        <<<How about a deep red/maroon gown with gorgeous black brocade over dress?
        Or very deep dark green? >>>>

        De: If you are choosing those dark colors because you think that they are
        matron colors and not because you like the colors, please note that I have
        seen matrons in light pink, aqua, peach, and light blue.
        I have been researching 14th century Florence gowns and find that black is
        not worn by widows or matrons specifically, in fact black is a rare color.
        Hair styles is more of an identifier then color. I have noticed that those
        women that are identified as maidens are seen wearing a black headband. I
        have noticed that in the 14th century you can tell the matron by the "last
        years fashion" look but as you progress through the years/centuries the
        matron's style becomes more up to date with the trends.
      • Lynne Tolton
        All good information. thank you. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 15, 2011
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          All good information. thank you.

          On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:55 PM, otsisto <otsisto@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > Sorry, late coming in on this.
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > <<SEE They're ALWAYS in the pictures. But we in the SCA just don't do
          > matrons. >>>
          >
          > De: This is broad brushing with SCA and not true. I have found that
          > cultures
          > vary in what would identify a woman as a matron. Matron is usually a
          > middle-aged woman, usually married. Matron does not mean that the woman is
          > widowed.
          >
          >
          > <<< Now how EXACTLY are you going to know that I'm the woman in charge if I
          > dress like a teen age girl all the time.>>>
          >
          > De: Please show examples of what you are speaking about. I have noted the
          > matrons in the paintings.
          > If you look through the Realms of Venus picture galleries you will see
          > matrons wearing similar gowns as the maidens, though there are subtle
          > differences, those differences may be due to matron status, region, or
          > fashion creativity.
          >
          >
          > <<<How about a deep red/maroon gown with gorgeous black brocade over dress?
          > Or very deep dark green? >>>>
          >
          > De: If you are choosing those dark colors because you think that they are
          > matron colors and not because you like the colors, please note that I have
          > seen matrons in light pink, aqua, peach, and light blue.
          > I have been researching 14th century Florence gowns and find that black is
          > not worn by widows or matrons specifically, in fact black is a rare color.
          > Hair styles is more of an identifier then color. I have noticed that those
          > women that are identified as maidens are seen wearing a black headband. I
          > have noticed that in the 14th century you can tell the matron by the "last
          > years fashion" look but as you progress through the years/centuries the
          > matron's style becomes more up to date with the trends.
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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