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pattern for a "V" gown

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  • De
    For those that don t do flat patterns, what would be the best pattern to adapt for a 1560s V gown? http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/ven4.jpg
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 7, 2011
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      For those that don't do flat patterns, what would be the best pattern to adapt for a 1560s "V" gown?

      http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/ven4.jpg


      De
    • Deborah Lane
      I don t know as I have never started with another pattern. But these might help. http://webspace.webring.com/people/lo/oonaghsown/blue_gown_diary.htm
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 7, 2011
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      • c_de_montigny
        You can start with any generic Tudor/Elizabethan bodice, and just futz from there (for instance, make longer, shape the front opening, etc.) The Tudor Tailor
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 7, 2011
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          You can start with any generic Tudor/Elizabethan bodice, and just futz from there (for instance, make longer, shape the front opening, etc.) The Tudor Tailor is a good guide, I think, for drawing the basic bodice.

          I thought that McCall's or Butterick had a decent Tudor/Elizabethan base pattern, but I'm not finding it. The most satisfactory one I could find was this:

          <http://mccallpattern.mccall.com/m4696-products-6556.php?page_id=493>

          McCall 4696, if the link doesn't work. I would eliminate the side front and side back seams. Then it starts to be passable.




          Claudine
          (pattern junky)

          --- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "De" <otsisto@...> wrote:
          >
          > For those that don't do flat patterns, what would be the best pattern to adapt for a 1560s "V" gown?
          >
          > http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/ven4.jpg
          >
          >
          > De
          >
        • otsisto
          Thank you. I do have these sites but what I was looking for was more of an actual pattern to work from, like one of the big three or perhaps an Anderson s
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 7, 2011
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            Thank you. I do have these sites but what I was looking for was more of an
            actual pattern to work from, like one of the big three or perhaps an
            Anderson's pattern.
            Was wondering if anyone found a pattern that worked for them.
            Thank you,
            De

            -----Original Message-----
            I don't know as I have never started with another pattern. But these might
            help.

            http://webspace.webring.com/people/lo/oonaghsown/blue_gown_diary.htm

            http://webspace.webring.com/people/lo/oonaghsown/my_first_steps_into_venetia
            n_dre.htm

            http://web.archive.org/web/20091024105042/http://geocities.com/curvess2000/t
            otally_wrong_dress_diary.htm
            <http://web.archive.org/web/20091024105042/http:/geocities.com/curvess2000/t
            otally_wrong_dress_diary.htm>

            Cheers
            Deb
          • lilinah@earthlink.net
            ... Simplicity made a pretty good Elizabethan pattern after the film Shakespeare in Love was released, pattern #8881. Maybe that is what you were thinking
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 7, 2011
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              Claudine wrote:
              > You can start with any generic Tudor/Elizabethan bodice, and just
              > futz from there (for instance, make longer, shape the front opening,
              > etc.) The Tudor Tailor is a good guide, I think, for drawing the
              > basic bodice.
              >
              > I thought that McCall's or Butterick had a decent Tudor/Elizabethan
              > base pattern, but I'm not finding it. The most satisfactory one I
              > could find was this:
              > <http://mccallpattern.mccall.com/m4696-products-6556.php?page_id=493>
              >
              > McCall 4696, if the link doesn't work. I would eliminate the side
              > front and side back seams. Then it starts to be passable.

              Simplicity made a pretty good Elizabethan pattern after the film "Shakespeare in Love" was released, pattern #8881. Maybe that is what you were thinking of? IIRC, they eventually also made a large/womans version. Both have been discontinued by now, but there are sites besides eBay that sell old sewing patterns.

              Reconstructing History has a large number of patterns for Tudor and Elizabethan garments, as well as "Germans", for both women and men. And Kass now has a decent range of late 15th and 16th c. women's Italian dresses - "Full-size paper patterns with complete instructions and historical notes... Fits busts 30-1/2"-48" and waists 23"-41". All sizes in one envelope":

              RH509 - 1470s-1500 Florentine Woman's Outfit
              [http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/products/rh509-1470s-1500-florentine-womans-outfit-1%5d
              15th century Italian common woman's outfit or gamurra as worn in Florence and the Tuscan region from the 1470s through the end of the century. Pattern includes tie-on sleeves with multiple variations, center or side-back closure, gathered or pleated skirts, coif, partlet. Instructions for camicia (shift) and period hairstyle also included.

              RH510 - 1470s-1500 Florentine Lady's Overgown - $30.00
              [http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/products/rh510-1470s-1500-florentine-ladys-overgown-1%5d
              15th century Italian lady's Overgown or Giornea as worn in Florence and the Tuscan region from the 1470s through the end of the century. Pattern includes closed as well as an open-sided giornea complete with embellishment suggestions.

              RH511 - 1500s-1525 Florentine Woman's Outfit - $25.00
              [http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/products/rh511-1500s-1525-florentine-womans-outfit%5d
              16th century Italian woman's outfit as worn in Florence and the Tuscan region from the beginning of the century until about 1525. Pattern includes tie-on sleeves, center or side-back closure, and gathered or pleated skirts. Instructions for camicia (shift).

              RH512 - 1530s Florentine Lady's Gown - $25.00
              [http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/products/rh512-1530s-florentine-ladys-gown%5d
              1530s Lady's Gown as worn in Florence and the Tuscan region and seen often in the portraits painted by Agnolo Bronzino. Pattern includes large one- or two-piece sleeves, side-back closure, and gathered or pleated skirts. Instructions for camicia (shift) also included.

              RH513 - 1540s-60s Florentine Lady's Outfit -$30.00
              [http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/products/rh513-1540s-60s-florentine-ladys-outfit%5d
              16th century Italian Lady's Outfit as worn in Florence and the Tuscan region from the 1540s until Eleanore's death in 1562 and possibly as late as 1580. Pattern includes petticoat and overgown both with tie-on sleeves, side-back closure, A-line pleated skirts. Instructions for camicia (shift) and period hairstyle also included.

              RH508 - Fruitseller or Common Woman's Dress - $25.00
              [http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/products/rh508-fruitseller-or-common-womans-dress-1%5d
              16th century Italian common woman's Gown as seen in the work of Vincenzo Campi. Pattern includes tie-on sleeves, center or side-back closure, and gathered or pleated skirts. Instructions fro ruffled-collared camisa or scoop-necked pleated camisa also included.

              I am not promoting these patterns and i have not used any of these specific patterns. My experience with the RH patterns i have is that the historical accuracy of her patterns is quite variable. But she has a great range of SCA period clothing covering multiple cultures and centuries and for those who don't want to draft their own patterns or who are new to sewing their own historical clothing, they are quite helpful.

              Fiametta Basilio
            • otsisto
              I had considered this Simplicity #2589 http://www.simplicity.com/p-1547-costumes.aspx or Simplicity #3782 http://www.simplicity.com/p-2009-costumes.aspx but
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 7, 2011
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                I had considered this
                Simplicity #2589
                http://www.simplicity.com/p-1547-costumes.aspx
                or
                Simplicity #3782
                http://www.simplicity.com/p-2009-costumes.aspx

                but was looking to see if others had worked from a pattern and had
                recommendations for a specific pattern.

                Basically I have been sorting through my stash due to a minor flood in the
                basement and came across 20 yds of brown cotton velvet (not one of the
                damaged lot) that I had plans for a "V" gown (or some call it the Venice
                gown) with cutwork sleeves. I'm wishing to get the pattern and store
                everything together and put it on the 10 things to sew within the next year
                shelf. Upside to the flooding, getting things organized. Downside, lose of
                some fabric that was thought to be safe as it never flooded that far into
                the basement so they were in cardboard boxes. Luckily most of it was
                cotton/poly modern.

                De
                Sorry communication skills seem to be only in first gear today.

                -----Original Message-----
                You can start with any generic Tudor/Elizabethan bodice, and just futz from
                there (for instance, make longer, shape the front opening, etc.) The Tudor
                Tailor is a good guide, I think, for drawing the basic bodice.

                I thought that McCall's or Butterick had a decent Tudor/Elizabethan base
                pattern, but I'm not finding it. The most satisfactory one I could find was
                this:

                <http://mccallpattern.mccall.com/m4696-products-6556.php?page_id=493>

                McCall 4696, if the link doesn't work. I would eliminate the side front and
                side back seams. Then it starts to be passable.

                Claudine
                (pattern junky)
              • otsisto
                The Florentine package is on my wish list, I have some fabrics set aside for it. One is a more modern velvet for just a costume for Christmas, Christmas green
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 7, 2011
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                  The Florentine package is on my wish list, I have some fabrics set aside for it. One is a more modern velvet for just a costume for Christmas, Christmas green with gold scroll work for the gamurra and Christmas red with small gold lozenges and lining in old gold colored cotton for the giornea. The lozenges make me think I should add some bead work like green beads or pearls. I have the fruit sellers which I am matching up fabric to. I guess I could use the fruit sellers as a base pattern for the "V" gown, difficulty lies in the front "v" of the skirt but it maybe only a small challenge. If I can get a "V" gown pattern created, besides the brown velvet, I have pink linen and a white linen with pink and green floral embroidery to create something akin to this
                  http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Dance1565.jpg
                  woman on the right.

                  De

                  -----Original Message-----
                  RH509 - 1470s-1500 Florentine Woman's Outfit
                  [http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/products/rh509-1470s-1500-florentine-womans-outfit-1%5d
                  15th century Italian common woman's outfit or gamurra as worn in Florence and the Tuscan region from the 1470s through the end of the century. Pattern includes tie-on sleeves with multiple variations, center or side-back closure, gathered or pleated skirts, coif, partlet. Instructions for camicia (shift) and period hairstyle also included.

                  RH508 - Fruitseller or Common Woman's Dress - $25.00
                  [http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/products/rh508-fruitseller-or-common-womans-dress-1%5d
                  16th century Italian common woman's Gown as seen in the work of Vincenzo Campi. Pattern includes tie-on sleeves, center or side-back closure, and gathered or pleated skirts. Instructions fro ruffled-collared camisa or scoop-necked pleated camisa also included.
                • Alexandria Doyle
                  So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with… ... I ve handled the the v- on the skirts several ways. First was to cut the skirt straight
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 8, 2011
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                    So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with…



                    On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:33 PM, otsisto <otsisto@...> wrote:
                    > The Florentine package is on my wish list, I have some fabrics set aside for it. One is a more modern velvet for just a costume for Christmas, Christmas green with gold scroll work for the gamurra and Christmas red with small gold lozenges and lining in old gold colored cotton for the giornea. The lozenges make me think I should add some bead work like green  beads or pearls.  I have the fruit sellers which I am matching up fabric to. I guess I could use the fruit sellers as a base pattern for the "V" gown, difficulty lies in the front "v" of the skirt but it maybe only a small challenge. If I can get a "V" gown pattern created, besides the brown velvet, I have pink linen and a white linen with pink and green floral embroidery to create something akin to this
                    > http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Dance1565.jpg
                    > woman on the right.
                    >
                    > De

                    I've handled the the v- on the skirts several ways.

                    First was to cut the skirt straight across and pleat to a tape inside
                    the bodice at the waist line. Then smooth the pleats and sew to where
                    the bodice edge is. Once that lower edge is sewn, the tape can be
                    removed and the excess fabric trimmed.

                    Second, don't pleat in the center front at the deepest parts of the v.
                    I laid it out similar to above, with less fuss to get those center
                    pleats right, because there are none.

                    Lastly I would have a waist band inside the bodice that would have
                    the skirt fully pleated to it. It would have a hook and eye closure
                    at side or center front, under the bodice, with the skirt attached to
                    the bodice at the back. I don't generally do skirt and bodice as
                    separate pieces because they never seem to stay together properly,
                    whereas this arrangement gave me the best of both worlds.

                    alex
                  • otsisto
                    Thank you. I will give this a try. I need a t-shirt with that saying or better yet have it translated into Latin and have it as a motto on a pavise and other
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 8, 2011
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                      Thank you. I will give this a try. I need a t-shirt with that saying or
                      better yet have it translated into Latin and have it as a motto on a pavise
                      and other heraldic stuff. :)

                      De

                      -----Original Message-----
                      So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with…


                      I've handled the the v- on the skirts several ways.

                      First was to cut the skirt straight across and pleat to a tape inside
                      the bodice at the waist line. Then smooth the pleats and sew to where
                      the bodice edge is. Once that lower edge is sewn, the tape can be
                      removed and the excess fabric trimmed.

                      Second, don't pleat in the center front at the deepest parts of the v.
                      I laid it out similar to above, with less fuss to get those center
                      pleats right, because there are none.

                      Lastly I would have a waist band inside the bodice that would have
                      the skirt fully pleated to it. It would have a hook and eye closure
                      at side or center front, under the bodice, with the skirt attached to
                      the bodice at the back. I don't generally do skirt and bodice as
                      separate pieces because they never seem to stay together properly,
                      whereas this arrangement gave me the best of both worlds.

                      alex
                    • c_de_montigny
                      Sorry, belated reply, I m on digest and don t keep up with them regularly. I had forgotten about these two Simplicity patterns, and yeah, they both look like
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jul 11, 2011
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                        Sorry, belated reply, I'm on digest and don't keep up with them regularly.

                        I had forgotten about these two Simplicity patterns, and yeah, they both look like good starting points, better than the patterns I suggested.

                        No, I wasn't thinking of the old "Shakespeare In Love" pattern, because it's out of print.

                        De, I confess that I have not made a gown in this style, so I'm approaching your question as, what would I do in your position. Personally, I would start with the Simplicity Tudor pattern (on sale, uh, next week, I think?) and hack away from there.




                        Claudine

                        --- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "otsisto" <otsisto@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I had considered this
                        > Simplicity #2589
                        > http://www.simplicity.com/p-1547-costumes.aspx
                        > or
                        > Simplicity #3782
                        > http://www.simplicity.com/p-2009-costumes.aspx
                        >
                      • otsisto
                        Thank you. :) ... Sorry, belated reply, I m on digest and don t keep up with them regularly. I had forgotten about these two Simplicity patterns, and yeah,
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jul 11, 2011
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                          Thank you. :)

                          -----Original Message-----
                          Sorry, belated reply, I'm on digest and don't keep up with them regularly.

                          I had forgotten about these two Simplicity patterns, and yeah, they both
                          look like good starting points, better than the patterns I suggested.

                          No, I wasn't thinking of the old "Shakespeare In Love" pattern, because it's
                          out of print.

                          De, I confess that I have not made a gown in this style, so I'm approaching
                          your question as, what would I do in your position. Personally, I would
                          start with the Simplicity Tudor pattern (on sale, uh, next week, I think?)
                          and hack away from there.

                          Claudine
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