I had no hurt feelings. Was a wee bit annoyed that some folks were thinking
that I was expecting the Borgias to be authentic in garb (I assure you that
I haven't been overly sniffing the fabric sizing, though when I die I think
I will win second place for most fabric).
It would be nice if the show was or at least 90% period as this would lessen
the work of killing clothing myths and misnomers(?). To many times with
shows as these, people assume that the garb is period and not that it is
stylized or designed to cater to the drama.
So, you don't need to be very careful in wording. I have learned over the
years that folks may speak English but don't communicate with it in the same
On a side note: From what someone had posted, just because the costumer is
from Italy, does not mean they are an expert in Italian historic clothing,
it just means that they may have a good idea of the style. She was most
likely hired for her designs and costuming skills then from her being
Italian. I know of one Swedish costumer who has only the basics of Norwegian
costumes (bunads) but can tell you a lot about French costumes (I think she
may have been French in a past life). :)
I'm sorry you feel like you were somehow being singled out and
criticized; that certainly wasn't my intent. Personally I was responding
to the general sense of the comments which are coming from a variety of
list members. I thought we were all having a fun discussion about how
Italian costuming was interpreted for this show. I will try phrase my
future comments very carefully so there are no more hurt feelings.
> Brad, Ginevra, and others,
> I said
> "Seeing as how the series is a fictional dramatization of history, the
> costumes are more designed for drama and mood setting then authenticity."
> Seeing as how the Borgias have been presented as a juicy drama similar
> to the Tudors, I did not expect authenticity. As for Borgias could be
> worse, the Tudors costumes started out with good facade costumes and
> worked their way towards wacky so only time will tell with the Borgias.
> I said nothing to the effect that the costumer did a bad job.
> I have had some experience in theatre costuming and I do understand
> that the costume designer has to cater to the vision of the director
> and other constraints.
> Brad said "I can argue to the difficulty of maintaining a period look
> that will stand up to the rigors of performance,...."
> I contend that movies do not have the constraints of needing a quick
> change like stage and that outfits that were normally worn everyday
> back then would have stood up to the rigors of performances.
> I do not consider it an insult to compare to the big 3 pattern
> companies. They do their best with catering to what clientele they
> have. My comparison is more towards the designer not layering the
> gowns but uses for example a gore to create a false under skirt or
> gown like the big 3 patterns.
> To clarify the comparison to carnival costume, I was inferring to
> Italian carnivals like the one in Venice which the costumes are
> usually above Halloween costume standards.
> As for Florentine versus Venice, it all comes down to the waistline.
> In the late 1400s, in Florence, the waistline is roughly around 1/2"
> above the waistline and in Venice the waistline is right below the
> bust. Therefore most of the gowns I have seen from the Borgias are
> below the bust but way above the waistline and thus the gowns are
> closer to Venetian than Florence.
> None of what I have said indicates that the gowns from Borgias are
> ugly, in fact I think the gowns are lovely and I would not mind having
> some of them.
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