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RE: RE: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Hi new member with question

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  • otsisto
    Better example of separate http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bianca_Cappello_de _Medici_with_her_s on_Antonio.jpeg http://tinyurl.com/2bzxcyz This one you
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 21, 2010
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      Better example of separate
      http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bianca_Cappello_de'_Medici_with_her_s
      on_Antonio.jpeg
      http://tinyurl.com/2bzxcyz

      This one you can tell it is a partlet.
      http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4969747
      http://tinyurl.com/2bopp34

      De

      -----Original Message-----

      Hi, my name is Lady Jennett de la Montainge, from the kingdom of Lochac. I'm
      a new-ish sewer having taught myself how to sew just over a year ago in
      order to try my hand at making some fabulous Italian Ren gowns.

      At the moment, I'm working on a replica of the blue dress in the famous
      Alessandro Allori portrait
      http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Eleonora_di_Don_Garzia_di_Toledo_di_P
      ietro_de'_Medici,_by_Alessandro_Allori.jpg

      So far I have made most of the over gown (minus sleeves) and the underskirt.
      My question is this: how can I attach the two pieces together so that the
      overskirt edges don't flap open as I walk?

      I would greatly appreciate any help from more experienced costumers than I.




      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • lilinah@earthlink.net
      ... I own a late 19th c. satin skirt for day wear, not formal. The fabric is amazingly dense and heavy, although not at all uncomfortable to wear. I imagine
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 21, 2010
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        alex wrote:
        >In these kinds of outfits with an open over skirt the first thing that
        >keep the skirts from flapping is the weight/body of the fabric and
        >trim,

        I own a late 19th c. satin skirt for day wear, not formal. The fabric
        is amazingly dense and heavy, although not at all uncomfortable to
        wear. I imagine that, in the case of the blue and white outfit, the
        blue fabric would have been like this. I suppose high end couture
        today would have access to similar fabric, but i haven't seen modern
        fabric which is similar in fabric stores.

        >and the second thing is you just can not walk with purpose,
        >walking slow and graceful will keep everything in place.

        Indeed, one great difference is how people of the past would have
        moved, compared to us. We modern women are so used to lightweight
        fabrics; trousers & jeans & shorts & short skirts; minimal support
        garments; and sport shoes. All of which enable us to move swiftly and
        with long strides, although i see that 3'' to 5'' spike heels are
        back in fashion, for which women who wear them will have to adjust
        their gait & posture. Girdles were quite common when i was young,
        worn by teens for formal occasions and by adult women much of the
        time, when women rarely wore trousers. For informal occasions women
        wore garter belts to hold up their stockings, because panty hose had
        not been invented and tights were only for little girls. I sure don't
        know anyone who wears a girdle these days, and garter belts are not
        worn for general practical purposes, more for the intimate &
        seductive ;)

        All these things (i.e., garments, shoes, & fabrics) contribute from
        one side to how people (here i am obviously speaking as a woman)
        would carry themselves: sit, stand, walk, ride in a carriage/cart or
        on horseback, carry items, etc. From another side are cultural
        expectations of the genders and of the classes, which would also
        affect how one moved, stood, etc. depending on one's gender and
        socioeconomic class.

        I suspect many of us do not consider these things, although i know
        that once i am fully dressed in 16th c. upper class underpinnings,
        outer layers, and head coverings, i sit, stand, and move differently
        than i do as my modern self. Definitely a more relaxed ambling stroll
        along with shorter strides, etc. After all, if we are supposed to be
        rich women, what is the rush? These changes in my movements keep my
        outer skirts from flapping back. I only encounter difficulties if it
        is windy.

        A question i have had, and for which i have no answer, concerns the
        use of weights in garments. In the 20th c. women's gowns often had
        weights in strategic places to keep the parts hanging correctly.
        Actual garment weights (tiny flat metal circles) were sold then,
        although one can substitute modern coins, modern washers, etc. So i
        have wondered if such things were ever used in complex multi layered
        16th c. European women's garments (or men's for that matter). Any
        ideas?

        Fiametta Basilio
      • Chris Catalfamo
        I have trouble keeping sleeves and a camicia with square neck in place, as well as three layers of sleeves--camicia sleeves plus pane cap sleeves plus
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 21, 2010
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          I have trouble keeping sleeves and a camicia with square neck in place, as well as three layers of sleeves--camicia sleeves plus pane cap sleeves plus undersleeves with openings. This is my most recent attempt at a 1530's. My persona at the Pittsburgh Faire (although I never get to do it) is the mother of the Bassanos--musicians and instrument makers from Venice in the court of Henry VIII. This is from a whole bunch of Bella's portraits. Lots of mistakes. I spend half the time fixing mistakes. We were being bad so it's a little racy. Italians are scandalous! But the court often wore Italian fashions for Italian events. Thus so many in the queens' wardrobes. I'm mixing some English/Spanish blackwork in too. I didn't do the camicia. Bonnie Beglin did it. I had to alter the neckline and that may be the reason I had trouble keeping it where it was supposed to be. I altered the front but not the back. I have to do the skirt over too. I needed the seam to be off center. I either have to spread out the pleats to make that happen or add a piece. I need only about 2 inches. I made the apron to cover where the seam is.
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Italian_Renaissance_Costuming/photos/album/1098776932/pic/1603242713/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: lilinah@...
          To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 2:21 PM
          Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Hi new member with question



          alex wrote:
          >In these kinds of outfits with an open over skirt the first thing that
          >keep the skirts from flapping is the weight/body of the fabric and
          >trim,

          I own a late 19th c. satin skirt for day wear, not formal. The fabric
          is amazingly dense and heavy, although not at all uncomfortable to
          wear. I imagine that, in the case of the blue and white outfit, the
          blue fabric would have been like this. I suppose high end couture
          today would have access to similar fabric, but i haven't seen modern
          fabric which is similar in fabric stores.

          >and the second thing is you just can not walk with purpose,
          >walking slow and graceful will keep everything in place.

          Indeed, one great difference is how people of the past would have
          moved, compared to us. We modern women are so used to lightweight
          fabrics; trousers & jeans & shorts & short skirts; minimal support
          garments; and sport shoes. All of which enable us to move swiftly and
          with long strides, although i see that 3'' to 5'' spike heels are
          back in fashion, for which women who wear them will have to adjust
          their gait & posture. Girdles were quite common when i was young,
          worn by teens for formal occasions and by adult women much of the
          time, when women rarely wore trousers. For informal occasions women
          wore garter belts to hold up their stockings, because panty hose had
          not been invented and tights were only for little girls. I sure don't
          know anyone who wears a girdle these days, and garter belts are not
          worn for general practical purposes, more for the intimate &
          seductive ;)

          All these things (i.e., garments, shoes, & fabrics) contribute from
          one side to how people (here i am obviously speaking as a woman)
          would carry themselves: sit, stand, walk, ride in a carriage/cart or
          on horseback, carry items, etc. From another side are cultural
          expectations of the genders and of the classes, which would also
          affect how one moved, stood, etc. depending on one's gender and
          socioeconomic class.

          I suspect many of us do not consider these things, although i know
          that once i am fully dressed in 16th c. upper class underpinnings,
          outer layers, and head coverings, i sit, stand, and move differently
          than i do as my modern self. Definitely a more relaxed ambling stroll
          along with shorter strides, etc. After all, if we are supposed to be
          rich women, what is the rush? These changes in my movements keep my
          outer skirts from flapping back. I only encounter difficulties if it
          is windy.

          A question i have had, and for which i have no answer, concerns the
          use of weights in garments. In the 20th c. women's gowns often had
          weights in strategic places to keep the parts hanging correctly.
          Actual garment weights (tiny flat metal circles) were sold then,
          although one can substitute modern coins, modern washers, etc. So i
          have wondered if such things were ever used in complex multi layered
          16th c. European women's garments (or men's for that matter). Any
          ideas?

          Fiametta Basilio




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Brandy
          I m still working on mine, lol. I got stupid and decided to decorate the undergown including where you normally would not see since I might decide to take off
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 25, 2010
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            I'm still working on mine, lol. I got stupid and decided to decorate the undergown including where you normally would not see since I might decide to take off the overgown if the weather (here in TX) makes it too hot to wear all those layers.

            --- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "otsisto" <otsisto@...> wrote:
            >
            > The white and gold sleeve are a part of a full dress/gown.
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