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question about a dress in a painting

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  • authenticity77
    hello, my name is rebecca, and while i m not new (just a lurker), this is my first post. i ve recently been reading the book Virgins of Venice: Broken Vows
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 3, 2010
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      hello, my name is rebecca, and while i'm not new (just a lurker), this is my first post. i've recently been reading the book 'Virgins of Venice: Broken Vows and cloistered lives in the renaissance convent', and in the insert, there is a painting that really caught my attentio9n. i understand the overgown but i am not sure on the style of the undergown.the illustration is listed as "titan, portrait of caterina cornaro (1542). florence, uffizi."

      the painting can be seen here ( http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/authenticity77/italian%20ren/portrait_caterina_cornaro_145_hi.jpg ) on my photo-bucket page. originally i had intended on making a gown from 1480-90, but this one looks like so much fun, i just have to consider it.

      i also found this version ( http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/authenticity77/italian%20ren/caterina_cornaro.jpg ) of the same painting, and i was wondering if anyone had anything to say about it. i am mostly intrigued by the sleeves.

      i am also wondering about the partlet (if indeed that's what it is) in the following painting. what was the purpose of it? was it just for modesty sake? i've never seen one in th8is style.

      http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/authenticity77/italian%20ren/CaterinaCornaro.jpg

      hopefully soon i will have something (a dress) to post. i'm slowly but surely knocking them down one at a time. i just finished a dress for ren faire based off campi's fruit seller, so i'm kinda enjoying the italian style right now. (so comfortable!)

      thank you in advance for any help or information you might have to share.

      --rebecca
    • Antonia Calvo
      ... I suggest doing some research on Ottoman Turkish clothing-- this is basically Caterina in Turkish dress. ... Well, you ve got me there. That s the first
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 3, 2010
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        authenticity77 wrote:
        > hello, my name is rebecca, and while i'm not new (just a lurker), this is my first post. i've recently been reading the book 'Virgins of Venice: Broken Vows and cloistered lives in the renaissance convent', and in the insert, there is a painting that really caught my attentio9n. i understand the overgown but i am not sure on the style of the undergown.the illustration is listed as "titan, portrait of caterina cornaro (1542). florence, uffizi."
        >
        > the painting can be seen here ( http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/authenticity77/italian%20ren/portrait_caterina_cornaro_145_hi.jpg ) on my photo-bucket page. originally i had intended on making a gown from 1480-90, but this one looks like so much fun, i just have to consider it.
        >

        I suggest doing some research on Ottoman Turkish clothing-- this is
        basically Caterina in Turkish dress.

        > i am also wondering about the partlet (if indeed that's what it is) in the following painting. what was the purpose of it? was it just for modesty sake? i've never seen one in th8is style.
        >
        > http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/authenticity77/italian%20ren/CaterinaCornaro.jpg
        >

        Well, you've got me there. That's the first time I've seen a partlet of
        that style.

        --
        Antonia di Benedetto Calvo

        -----------------------------
        Habeo metrum - musicamque,
        hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
        -Georgeus Gershwinus
        -----------------------------
      • otsisto
        Caterina, later years http://tinyurl.com/yaqf4xf Durer drawing based of of a lost Bellini portrait of Catarina C.
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 4, 2010
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          Caterina, later years
          http://tinyurl.com/yaqf4xf

          Durer drawing based of of a lost Bellini portrait of Catarina C.
          http://www.boglewood.com/cornaro/xportrait_b31durer2.jpg

          It may be something that denotes widowhood.

          -----Original Message-----
          hello, my name is rebecca, and while i'm not new (just a lurker), this is my
          first post. i've recently been reading the book 'Virgins of Venice: Broken
          Vows and cloistered lives in the renaissance convent', and in the insert,
          there is a painting that really caught my attentio9n. i understand the
          overgown but i am not sure on the style of the undergown.the illustration is
          listed as "titan, portrait of caterina cornaro (1542). florence, uffizi."

          the painting can be seen here (
          http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/authenticity77/italian%20ren/portr
          ait_caterina_cornaro_145_hi.jpg ) on my photo-bucket page. originally i had
          intended on making a gown from 1480-90, but this one looks like so much fun,
          i just have to consider it.

          i also found this version (
          http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/authenticity77/italian%20ren/cater
          ina_cornaro.jpg ) of the same painting, and i was wondering if anyone had
          anything to say about it. i am mostly intrigued by the sleeves.

          i am also wondering about the partlet (if indeed that's what it is) in the
          following painting. what was the purpose of it? was it just for modesty
          sake? i've never seen one in th8is style.

          http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/authenticity77/italian%20ren/Cater
          inaCornaro.jpg

          hopefully soon i will have something (a dress) to post. i'm slowly but
          surely knocking them down one at a time. i just finished a dress for ren
          faire based off campi's fruit seller, so i'm kinda enjoying the italian
          style right now. (so comfortable!)

          thank you in advance for any help or information you might have to share.

          --rebecca
        • lilinah@earthlink.net
          Rebecca posted: [http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/authenticity77/italian%20ren/portrait_caterina_cornaro_145_hi.jpg] ... Rather, in a Venetian fantasy
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 23, 2010
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            Rebecca posted:
            [http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/authenticity77/italian%20ren/portrait_caterina_cornaro_145_hi.jpg%5d

            And Antonia wrote:
            >I suggest doing some research on Ottoman Turkish clothing-- this is
            >basically Caterina in Turkish dress.

            Rather, in a Venetian fantasy of Ottoman clothing...

            The one in the link above, by Titian, is dated circa 1542, so it was
            painted 32 years after her death, and it depicts a very young
            Caterina as St. Catherine (notice the wheel behind her?), so the
            painting is allegorical, symbolic, and purely fantasy.

            Catherina Cornaro lived from 1454 to 1510, and was Queen of Cyprus
            from 1474 to 1489.

            So most of these are not portraits from life, but artistic... uh...
            interpretations... of how the artists thought she might have looked.

            Fun to make, but not historical outfits.

            As far as i can tell, the only one made during her life is the copy
            of the lost Bellini by Durer, dated circa 1494, which shows her in
            appropriately 15th c. clothing, so might be closer to life

            The other so-called portrait of Caterina, by Gentile Bellini and
            dated circa 1500, has her in what seem to me to be somewhat odd
            clothing, but i don't know what was commonly worn in Cyprus at this
            time:
            [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gentile_Bellini_002.jpg%5d
            At least Gentile actually went to Istanbul.

            Rebecca wrote:
            >i also found this version
            >[http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af195/authenticity77/italian%20ren/caterina_cornaro.jpg%5d
            >of the same painting, and i was wondering if anyone had anything to
            >say about it. i am mostly intrigued by the sleeves.

            Unlike the Titian, this painting represents something much closer to
            actual Ottoman clothing, at least of the 16th century, but not
            necessarily what was worn during Caterina's life. The sleeves are
            like those on a high class gomlek. See:
            [http://home.earthlink.net/~al-qurtubiyya/Otto_Fem_Cloth/ottofemcloth.html%5d
            Anyone know of a larger version on-line?
            --

            Fiametta Basilio
          • lilinah@earthlink.net
            ... I found another painting by Gentile Bellini, Miracle of the True Cross on the Bridge of San Lorenzo:
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 23, 2010
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              I wrote:
              >The other so-called portrait of Caterina, by Gentile Bellini and
              >dated circa 1500, has her in what seem to me to be somewhat odd
              >clothing, but i don't know what was commonly worn in Cyprus at this
              >time:
              >[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gentile_Bellini_002.jpg%5d
              >At least Gentile actually went to Istanbul.

              I found another painting by Gentile Bellini,
              Miracle of the True Cross on the Bridge of San
              Lorenzo:
              [http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/63/13163-050-E75BD9A6.jpg%5d
              Apparently as a piece of the so called true cross
              was being paraded through Venice, some bozo
              dropped it into the canal, but it was
              miraculously found. According to what ive read,
              Caterina Cornaro is kneeling in the front row on
              the left, in a dress that is the same as, or very
              like, the one in the surviving Bellini portrait.
              Rather difficult to discern in this lousy
              reproduction.

              BTW, here is another painting by Titian, showing
              a young woman in the Venetian interpretation of
              Ottoman clothing, very like his of Caterina
              Cornaro and the mystery one. This one painted
              from life. It is not exactly like Ottoman
              clothing, after all they are proudly and
              assuredly Venetian!
              [http://www.picturalissim.com/g/titian_portrait_lady_l.htm%5d
              I know that Oonagh had this picture on her
              website and she made a lovely reproduction of
              this outfit. The young woman is often identified
              in English as "a lady", but in French it says
              "Femme du Monde", which suggests she was a
              courtesan.

              --
              Fiametta Basilio
            • lilinah@earthlink.net
              ... Well, i just found Oonagh s page on which she collected quite a few paintings of women (mostly Venetian, i assume) wearing the Venetian version of
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 23, 2010
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                >BTW, here is another painting by Titian, showing a young woman in the
                >Venetian interpretation of Ottoman clothing, very like his of Caterina
                >Cornaro and the mystery one. This one painted from life. It is not exactly
                >like Ottoman clothing, after all they are proudly and assuredly Venetian!
                >[http://www.picturalissim.com/g/titian_portrait_lady_l.htm%5d
                >I know that Oonagh had this picture on her website and she made a lovely
                >reproduction of this outfit. The young woman is often identified in English
                >as "a lady", but in French it says "Femme du Monde", which suggests she
                >was a courtesan.

                Well, i just found Oonagh's page on which she
                collected quite a few paintings of women (mostly
                Venetian, i assume) wearing the Venetian version
                of Ottoman...
                [http://webspace.webring.com/people/lo/oonaghsown/turkish_coat_for_venetian_dress_doco.htm%5d

                --
                Fiametta Basilio
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