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Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Side Lacing and side seam construction

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  • Amanda
    Gilia... This was a fabulous comparison. I have found that side back lacing will give more than side lacing due to the way the fabric will stretch which is not
    Message 1 of 29 , Feb 16, 2009
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      Gilia...

      This was a fabulous comparison.
      I have found that side back lacing will give more than side lacing due to the way the fabric will stretch which is not allowed in the straight side lacing.
      I do agree with my laurel that side back gives you a better fit, what I was trying to find is some examples of straight side lacing so that future competition entrants cant be faulted for choosing to cut the bodice of their dress that way.
      I feel that I have found many people in competition who will discount points if a dress is not cut "the way they always did in period".
      I have been a judge in places where I felt rather disturbed by coments such as ... This would have been made of silk brocade and in a tallied competition you would have lost points for using cotton brocade.
      My opinion is ... no matter if an outfit is made of handwoven fabric, if that fabric is not made right, and the tailoring is bad.
      Yes... I would be impressed with the effort in trying to go all the way... but bad weaving and bad tailoring are still bad.
      off the soapbox now...

      I have cut bodices in may different ways... and I always found that tailoring an outfit a certain way will give you a certain look... and a certain fit.
      fabric stretches a certain way when even a slight part of it is cut on the bias... giving it a higher degree of comfort and fit.
      I do agree that side back will give the garment those atributes...

      But ... what I want is to open up certain eyes to the fact that things are not always done one way... and I am not talking about my laurel mom... she is fabulously open minded (she took me as an apprentice after all...)

      Thank you all for all the input...
      I will continue looking for that picture...

      Amanda.
      on a quest


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jennifer Jensen
      To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:40 AM
      Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Side Lacing and side seam construction


      I can't speak on which one is more period. I can comment on how side lacing
      and side-back lacing wear. I have done both.

      Side lacing was more constricting, allowing me little movement. It kept me
      very flat across the bust giving me a compact chest and back. It did allow
      for evenly letting out the sides to accommodate weight gain (or pregnancy),
      however the opening would be more to the front than the back causing the
      opening to be a right triangle if you can visualize that.

      Side-back lacing was amazing! It was very supportive. It kept my girls up
      where they belonged and I could move freely without them drooping. I could
      even run! The whole bodice 'gave' as I moved. Again it could be let out
      evenly, allowing for weight gain to the front. The back remained looking
      straight and my chemise was seen under the arms fairly evenly.

      Modesty panels under the opening for either lacing style would cover the
      chemise while allowing the sides to be opened a bit. For weight loss, I
      found taking in the side lacing style of bodice to be more difficult than
      the side-back lacing style of bodice. The side lacing required me to take
      in all four lacing edges evenly to get the bodice to remain correct in fit.
      The side-back lacing only had to be taken in on the two lacing edges from
      the front of the bodice. The exception to this would be for major weight
      loss. And at that point you deserve a whole new dress!

      -Gilia

      On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Chris Catalfamo
      <catalfamo1190@...>wrote:

      > Ok so what's the verdict on seams percentage--wise. Am I getting the
      > impression that basc lacing was a rarity if at all; side lacing was done,
      > but side-back lacing was far more prevalent; front lacing about equal to
      > side back, and sometimes two different lacings in one body?
      >
      > What do people on the list think the percentages are?
      >
      >
      > .
      >
      >
      >

      --
      -The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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    • Amanda
      wow... thanks for those... Amanda. ... From: sunshine.k.buchler@kp.org To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:43
      Message 2 of 29 , Feb 16, 2009
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        wow... thanks for those...

        Amanda.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: sunshine.k.buchler@...
        To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:43 AM
        Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Side Lacing and side seam construction


        Sorry, just catching up with my e-mail so I'm a little late with this
        response:

        The funeral gown of Eleonora de Toledo c.1562 has side back lacing:
        http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/workbox/extwomclo2.htm however,
        the Pisa dress (a Florentine gown of the same time period - c1560) has
        very nearly true side lacing (only a very slight slant) :
        http://dazeoflaur.livejournal.com/73906.html#cutid1

        I've actually had trouble documenting the slanted side-back lacing much
        earlier then the funeral gown of Eleonora.

        Just my 2 cents,
        -sunny

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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      • Brad Moore
        Three cheers for taking a stand! I agree that sometimes in judging folks get an idea that it would only have been done this way . I think there are often
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 16, 2009
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          Three cheers for taking a stand! I agree that sometimes in judging folks get an idea that it would "only have been done this way". I think there are often mitigating circumstances which can change the cut of a garment. I applaud you for your search.

          Brad Moore

          "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."
          - J.R.R. Tolkien




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        • Lyonet
          Wonderful piccies! Thanks for sharing. Lyonet
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 16, 2009
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            Wonderful piccies!
            Thanks for sharing.

            Lyonet


            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: sunshine.k.buchler@...
            > To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:43 AM
            > Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Side Lacing and side seam construction
            >
            >
            > Sorry, just catching up with my e-mail so I'm a little late with this
            > response:
            >
            > The funeral gown of Eleonora de Toledo c.1562 has side back lacing:
            > http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/workbox/extwomclo2.htm however,
            > the Pisa dress (a Florentine gown of the same time period - c1560) has
            > very nearly true side lacing (only a very slight slant) :
            > http://dazeoflaur.livejournal.com/73906.html#cutid1
            >
            > I've actually had trouble documenting the slanted side-back lacing much
            > earlier then the funeral gown of Eleonora.
            >
            > Just my 2 cents,
            > -sunny
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
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