Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

October 1st Showcase is now Online

Expand Messages
  • Anabella Wake
    And what a beauty it is! I am very happy to preent to you the talent of Lady Fiore Rossini (Kate Sullivan), of The Canton of Rimsholt in the Barony of
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 30, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      And what a beauty it is!

      I am very happy to preent to you the talent of Lady Fiore Rossini
      (Kate Sullivan), of The Canton of Rimsholt in the Barony of Andelcrag,
      Middle Kingdom (Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA).

      Lady Fiore has created a gorgeous outfit in the style of
      the 'Courtesan' woodcuts by Giacomo Franco, circa 1595/1605, complete
      with a net partlet which I just adore.


      http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/yourgarb/showcase.htm


      Enjoy. :-)



      Bella
    • Madeleine Delacroix
      All I can say when I saw her gown and the work she did was say, Wow !!!! Then I had to send the link to several others that enjoy that style of dress...it s
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 1, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        All I can say when I saw her gown and the work she did was
        say,"Wow"!!!! Then I had to send the link to several others that enjoy
        that style of dress...it's perfect...makes mine look like the poor
        country mouse.





        "Anabella Wake" <bella_lucia_da_verona@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > And what a beauty it is!
        the talent of Lady Fiore Rossini
        > (Kate Sullivan), of The Canton of Rimsholt in the Barony of Andelcrag,
        > Middle Kingdom (Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA).
        > Bella
      • Trishka
        I m starting to look at Venetian clothing more seriously but I m a bit confused but the corset/no corset bit. I realize that at some point they were wearing
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 13, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          I'm starting to look at Venetian clothing more seriously but I'm a bit
          confused but the corset/no corset bit. I realize that at some point they
          were wearing corsets but when and what sort of corset? Without a corset how
          do you stay "up" in your dress if you are busty? For specifics I'm looking
          at this
          http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/ApotheosisDetail.jpg
          picture and getting confused. The woman in the middle looks like she could
          be wearing a corset but the one on the left looks like her dress is curving
          around her breast. Is this just a shadow, is she corset less, does she have
          a supportive bodice?



          Maybe I should just stick to Florentine fashion...



          Victoria



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • otsisto
          There is a debate about what kind of supportive garment were or were not worn. Personally I think that either a Pair o bodies or the stiffening of the
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 13, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            There is a debate about what kind of supportive garment were or were not
            worn. Personally I think that either a "Pair o' bodies" or the stiffening of
            the bodice would have been worn.
            As to which kind of PoB...well I/m not sure.
            To my understanding (which may be wrong) corsets are post 1650.
            If you are a volumptuos woman, I recommend the PoB. And for coolness it
            should be of linen and hemp cording.
            Oonagh calls it a corset.
            http://www.geocities.com/technically_naked/corset.htm
            and in her opinion (which is well argued) corsets were definitely worn.
            Hemp cord PoB(?)
            http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/cording/cord.html

            Are you meaning early renaissance Florentine? :)
            Because you run into the same question for later periods.
            http://festiveattyre.com/research/secondflor/secflor14.html

            If you were to go a bit earlier then your picture you will have what appears
            to be a stiffened bodice and no PoB.
            http://festiveattyre.com/research/secondflor/secflor25.html
            The bands on the bodice appear to have possible boning or cording under
            them.
            De

            -----Original Message-----
            I'm starting to look at Venetian clothing more seriously but I'm a bit
            confused but the corset/no corset bit. I realize that at some point they
            were wearing corsets but when and what sort of corset? Without a corset how
            do you stay "up" in your dress if you are busty? For specifics I'm looking
            at this
            http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/ApotheosisDetail.jpg
            picture and getting confused. The woman in the middle looks like she could
            be wearing a corset but the one on the left looks like her dress is curving
            around her breast. Is this just a shadow, is she corset less, does she have
            a supportive bodice?

            Maybe I should just stick to Florentine fashion...
            Victoria
          • caitlin_oduibhir
            Greetings from a voice not heard from in a long while! There is a difference in wearing preferences in these women, not structure of the clothing itself. The
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 14, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Greetings from a voice not heard from in a long while!

              There is a difference in wearing preferences in these women, not structure of the clothing
              itself. The woman on the left wears her bodice higher on the chest than the woman on the
              right. Likely a difference in age between them, as the later in the century you get, the
              lower to bodice sits, until the late 1590's when they all but expose the breasts completely.

              There is still debate, and likely always will be, as to when corsetry came into use in Venice.
              It's a chicken and egg theory as to who influenced whom; Queen Elizabeth became
              enamoured with Venetian fashion through her embassadors, and began wearing a much-
              trumped up version of their style. The possibility exists that the wearing of a corset came
              through her to Venice, rather than the other way around. Extant garments give little clue
              other than there is one, cut into a modesty panel that roughly corresponds with this era of
              fashion. Other than that, it's all supposition. Really, the choice is yours at this point to
              wear a corset or not. I don't, but stiffen the bodice to the point it may as well be one.
              Oonagh wears a corset and a second chemise. Both accomplish the same goal.

              Salvi

              --- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "Trishka" <trishka@...> wrote:
              >
              > I'm starting to look at Venetian clothing more seriously but I'm a bit
              > confused but the corset/no corset bit. I realize that at some point they
              > were wearing corsets but when and what sort of corset? Without a corset how
              > do you stay "up" in your dress if you are busty? For specifics I'm looking
              > at this
              > http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/ApotheosisDetail.jpg
              > picture and getting confused. The woman in the middle looks like she could
              > be wearing a corset but the one on the left looks like her dress is curving
              > around her breast. Is this just a shadow, is she corset less, does she have
              > a supportive bodice?
            • Trishka
              Thank you! I am much less confused now but this does lead me to a second question for those who wear this style. Do any of you who are busty have a strong
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 14, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Thank you! I am much less confused now but this does lead me to a second
                question for those who wear this style. Do any of you who are busty have a
                strong preference for corset or no corset?



                Thanks for the guidance,

                Victoria



                _____

                From: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                caitlin_oduibhir
                Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:16 AM
                To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: Venetian question



                Greetings from a voice not heard from in a long while!

                There is a difference in wearing preferences in these women, not structure
                of the clothing
                itself. The woman on the left wears her bodice higher on the chest than the
                woman on the
                right. Likely a difference in age between them, as the later in the century
                you get, the
                lower to bodice sits, until the late 1590's when they all but expose the
                breasts completely.

                There is still debate, and likely always will be, as to when corsetry came
                into use in Venice.
                It's a chicken and egg theory as to who influenced whom; Queen Elizabeth
                became
                enamoured with Venetian fashion through her embassadors, and began wearing a
                much-
                trumped up version of their style. The possibility exists that the wearing
                of a corset came
                through her to Venice, rather than the other way around. Extant garments
                give little clue
                other than there is one, cut into a modesty panel that roughly corresponds
                with this era of
                fashion. Other than that, it's all supposition. Really, the choice is yours
                at this point to
                wear a corset or not. I don't, but stiffen the bodice to the point it may as
                well be one.
                Oonagh wears a corset and a second chemise. Both accomplish the same goal.

                Salvi

                --- In Italian_Renaissance
                <mailto:Italian_Renaissance_Costuming%40yahoogroups.com>
                _Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "Trishka" <trishka@...> wrote:
                >
                > I'm starting to look at Venetian clothing more seriously but I'm a bit
                > confused but the corset/no corset bit. I realize that at some point they
                > were wearing corsets but when and what sort of corset? Without a corset
                how
                > do you stay "up" in your dress if you are busty? For specifics I'm looking
                > at this
                > http://realmofvenus
                <http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/ApotheosisDetail.jpg>
                .renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/ApotheosisDetail.jpg
                > picture and getting confused. The woman in the middle looks like she could
                > be wearing a corset but the one on the left looks like her dress is
                curving
                > around her breast. Is this just a shadow, is she corset less, does she
                have
                > a supportive bodice?





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Alexandria Doyle
                I can go either way. I have corsets that I like just fine and I have dresses that are made to support and as such, don t have a corset or separate supporting
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 14, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  I can go either way. I have corsets that I like just fine and I have
                  dresses that are made to support and as such, don't have a corset or
                  separate supporting garment. If everything is tailored right, both
                  are comfortable for me. If weight goes down and the gown or corset
                  isn't altered, then things are no longer comfortable, though weight
                  going up isn't as much of a problem if I'm willing to have wide
                  lacings.

                  alex

                  On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 8:34 PM, Trishka <trishka@...> wrote:
                  > Thank you! I am much less confused now but this does lead me to a second
                  > question for those who wear this style. Do any of you who are busty have a
                  > strong preference for corset or no corset?
                  >

                  --
                  "I'm buying this fabric/book now in case I have an emergency...you
                  know, having to suddenly make presents for everyone, sickness,flood,
                  injury, mosquito infestations, not enough silk in the house, it's
                  Friday..." ;)
                • Bella
                  These are my general preferences: Pre-1540 Venetian: no corset  1540-1580 Venice: corset if it s a front-laced (especially widely), no corset/bodice
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 14, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    These are my general preferences:

                    Pre-1540 Venetian: no corset 
                    1540-1580 Venice: corset if it's a front-laced (especially widely), no corset/bodice stiffening if it's not front-laced
                    1580+ : corset

                    This is not stating anything regarding what was done (we don't yet know for sure), just what my observations and preferences lead me to. :-)

                    Bella
                    The Realm of Venus
                    http://realmofvenus.net


                    Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bella
                    ... PS...forgot to mention that I have worn a dress of the above time frame (narrower opening) without a corset and it worked great. Bella Make the switch to
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 14, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      >>>These are my general preferences: <snip> 1540-1580 Venice: corset if it's a front-laced (especially widely), no corset/bodice stiffening if it's not front-laced <snip>

                      PS...forgot to mention that I have worn a dress of the above time frame (narrower opening) without a corset and it worked great.


                      Bella



                      Make the switch to the world's best email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail! http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Madeleine Delacroix
                      When I made my 1570ish Venetian, I just boned the front and it was snug. I am a D cup and had no problems with moving around, the girls stayed where they
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 15, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        When I made my 1570ish Venetian, I just boned the front and it was
                        snug. I am a D cup and had no problems with moving around, the girls
                        stayed where they needed to be. I hate the thought of corsets, but
                        that is a personal issue.

                        Maddalena
                        aka Madeleine



                        "Trishka" <trishka@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Thank you! I am much less confused now but this does lead me to a
                        second
                        > question for those who wear this style. Do any of you who are busty
                        have a
                        > strong preference for corset or no corset?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Thanks for the guidance,
                        >
                        > Victoria
                      • Trishka
                        Thanks for all the input! Since I m several sizes above a D and I want to do a front lacing gown I think I m going to try it with a corset first. I know I
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 15, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thanks for all the input! Since I'm several sizes above a D and I want to
                          do a front lacing gown I think I'm going to try it with a corset first. I
                          know I will not like the first dress (I never do) so once I'm more
                          comfortable with the style I think I will play around with a self supporting
                          style.



                          Once I actually start sewing I'll post pictures.



                          Victoria



                          _____

                          From: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                          Madeleine Delacroix
                          Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:25 PM
                          To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: Venetian question



                          When I made my 1570ish Venetian, I just boned the front and it was
                          snug. I am a D cup and had no problems with moving around, the girls
                          stayed where they needed to be. I hate the thought of corsets, but
                          that is a personal issue.

                          Maddalena
                          aka Madeleine

                          "Trishka" <trishka@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Thank you! I am much less confused now but this does lead me to a
                          second
                          > question for those who wear this style. Do any of you who are busty
                          have a
                          > strong preference for corset or no corset?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Thanks for the guidance,
                          >
                          > Victoria





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • borderlands15213
                          ... were not ... stiffening of ... coolness it ... worn. For whatever it s worth, I believe Evelyn Waugh states in Corsets and Crinolines that
                          Message 12 of 12 , Oct 19, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "otsisto"
                            <otsisto@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > There is a debate about what kind of supportive garment were or
                            were not
                            > worn. Personally I think that either a "Pair o' bodies" or the
                            stiffening of
                            > the bodice would have been worn.
                            > As to which kind of PoB...well I/m not sure.
                            > To my understanding (which may be wrong) corsets are post 1650.
                            > If you are a volumptuos woman, I recommend the PoB. And for
                            coolness it
                            > should be of linen and hemp cording.
                            > Oonagh calls it a corset.
                            > http://www.geocities.com/technically_naked/corset.htm
                            > and in her opinion (which is well argued) corsets were definitely
                            worn.
                            <<<snipped>>>

                            For whatever it's worth, I believe Evelyn Waugh states in "Corsets
                            and Crinolines" that we don't see *corsets* as such until the
                            1800s/19thC. Before then, we're looking first at "Paires of
                            Boddyes/bodies/bodyes" and then at "stays."
                            That said, when we shorthand paiyres of bodies as "corset" or refer
                            to a set of stays as a "corset," we know what we mean.

                            I second De's opinion, slightly restated as, "If you feel you need
                            the support, by all means wear the support."
                            How you choose to do that is up to you: payre of bodies,
                            stays, "corset," or a boned bodice of the gown itself that you wear.

                            As to whether you should (if you are wondering), consider this
                            question:
                            Someone once asked Mama Cass Elliot ("The Mamas and the Papas") *why*
                            she wore a bra.
                            Now, if you just slanted your eyes sideways and maybe raised your
                            eyebrows and at least mentally said, "Well, D'oh!", and figured that
                            if it were you instead of Cass Elliot being asked that question you'd
                            have the same reaction....
                            Wear support.
                            For the record, Mama Cass answered, "For support and for warmth."

                            Yseult the Gentle
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.