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RE: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] "Early" period Italian

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  • Trishka
    Thanks for that link, I ll be checking it out. As for the early period clothing I ve decided that while some of it is nice enough I just don t have time to
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 6, 2008
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      Thanks for that link, I'll be checking it out.

      As for the "early" period clothing I've decided that while some of it is
      nice enough I just don't have time to make a new pattern so I'm just
      going to go with a pattern I already have. It will not match time wise
      with Her Highness but I figure it's no more out of place than the people
      wearing Viking apron dresses.

      Victoria

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      Susan Farmer
      Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 5:05 PM
      To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] "Early" period Italian

      Quoting Trishka <trishka@becklanllc. <mailto:trishka%40becklanllc.com>
      com>:

      > I know this is a bit off topic for the list but does anyone have any
      > suggestions for Italian sources that are pre-1425? I'm so hooked on
      the
      > Italian Ren that I hate to give it up but I have to wear something of
      > the same time period (or earlier) than my Princes for her Coronation.
      > However, I don't have a clue what that means in Italy and I'm having
      > trouble finding anything before 1440-1450.
      >

      I don't really know of any web sources, per se, but this list that I
      got from the Handbook of Italian Painters may help. At least you'll
      have an idea of what artists to look for!

      http://www.goldswor
      <http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Garb/gallwitz_ItalianPainters.html>
      d.com/sfarmer/Garb/gallwitz_ItalianPainters.html

      jerusha
      -----
      Susan Farmer
      sfarmer@goldsword. <mailto:sfarmer%40goldsword.com> com
      Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
      Division of Science and Math
      http://www.goldswor <http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/>
      d.com/sfarmer/Trillium/



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Susan Griner
      I have made a dress in this style. My specific steps won t be of much help ( this dress is in the middle of it s sixth remake. I love it and when it needs some
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 8, 2008
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        I have made a dress in this style. My specific steps won't be of much help ( this dress is in
        the middle of it's sixth remake. I love it and when it needs some thing, I just fix/replace it.
        Soon it will have none of it's original fabric left!) but I can tell you what I learned in the
        process.
        The shoulder shape can only be _so_ wide or the straps will fall off of your shoulders. You
        intuited this already. To get a good fit and graceful shape on the neckline, I have used a
        paper template. Cut an oval in a piece of newsprint. Make it's length your shoulder width
        and it's depth your upper chest depth. Slip it on over your head and start drawing on it and
        trimming away until you get a shape you like that doesn't slip off your shoulders. Make
        sure to mark the shoulder points and center front and back. The inner cut edge is the only
        useful part here. Use it to draw on a neckline on a bodice. The advantage of this is it's
        quick and easy and cheap. Even a few mis-cuts are fine. Tape them together or cut a new
        one and start again.
        Another method I've used was to make a bodice (often a mock up) that fit well with a
        neckline that is purposefully too high. Then I would mark the desired neckline on it while
        it is being worn (you might need help if your making the garment for yourself). Cut on the
        marked line and take the garment apart for a pattern. Conversely, cut about the marked
        line to allow for seam allowance and use the mock up for both pattern and lining. This
        takes more time, but is my current preferred method.
        Hope this helps.
        Lucrezia
        --- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "Trishka" <trishka@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm giving up on my quest for pre-1425 clothing and going with what I
        > know but I would still like some opinions. I'm going to make a
        > day/house dress like this
        > http://www.abcgallery.com/C/carpaccio/carpaccio11.html and I'm wondering
        > about the decorative band at the top. I'm going to use a contrasting
        > color fabric for it (which will be embellished at a later date) but I'm
        > wondering it anyone else has made one of these dresses with the extreme
        > boat neck line. How did you keep it from falling off your shoulders?
        > I'm not worried about the dress itself slipping since it will be laced
        > on tight enough to prevent that but I don't want to be standing in court
        > with my dress sliding off my shoulders. Do the sleeves keep this from
        > happening or is the top just tight enough that it isn't going anywhere?
        >
        > Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
        >
        > Victoria
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Alexandria Doyle
        Whenever I make a bodice that has these narrow almost off the shoulder lines, I make sure that the back fits well, and just barely scopes across the top of the
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 8, 2008
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          Whenever I make a bodice that has these narrow almost off the shoulder
          lines, I make sure that the back fits well, and just barely scopes
          across the top of the shoulders. Then the front can scope down as low
          as you will, without the shoulders slipping off.

          Of course it helps to make sure that the shoulders are cut to your
          shoulder line and sometimes making the cut of the "strap" angled or
          cut to the bias helps too. Think of a regular bodice/neckline as a
          "U", this shape is an exaggerated version of "\__/". The
          tension/stretch - makes gravity work for you and supports and stays on
          the shoulders better.

          alex


          > --- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "Trishka" <trishka@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > I'm giving up on my quest for pre-1425 clothing and going with what I
          > > know but I would still like some opinions. I'm going to make a
          > > day/house dress like this
          > > http://www.abcgallery.com/C/carpaccio/carpaccio11.html and I'm wondering
          > > about the decorative band at the top. I'm going to use a contrasting
          > > color fabric for it (which will be embellished at a later date) but I'm
          > > wondering it anyone else has made one of these dresses with the extreme
          > > boat neck line. How did you keep it from falling off your shoulders?
          > > I'm not worried about the dress itself slipping since it will be laced
          > > on tight enough to prevent that but I don't want to be standing in court
          > > with my dress sliding off my shoulders. Do the sleeves keep this from
          > > happening or is the top just tight enough that it isn't going anywhere?
          > >
          > > Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
          > >
          > > Victoria
          --
          "I'm buying this fabric/book now in case I have an emergency...you
          know, having to suddenly make presents for everyone, sickness,flood,
          injury, mosquito infestations, not enough silk in the house, it's
          Friday..." ;)
        • Bella
          ... From: Trishka Subject: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] How would you make this?
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 8, 2008
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            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Trishka <trishka@...>
            Subject: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] How would you make this?

            <snipped> http://www.abcgallery.com/C/carpaccio/carpaccio11.html <snip> I'm
            wondering it anyone else has made one of these dresses with the extreme
            boat neck line.<<<<

            I've made one.
            http://renaissanceitaly.net/mygarb/c1500Ven.htm



            >>>>> How did you keep it from falling off your shoulders?<<<<<<


            I made mine the support garment, so it was very snug. I made sure that there was no excess fabric at the shoulders and that the armholes weren't too big - the closer and higher it fits under the arm the better.


            >>>>>>I'm not worried about the dress itself slipping since it will be laced
            on tight enough to prevent that but I don't want to be standing in court
            with my dress sliding off my shoulders.<<<<<<


            If it fits snugly around the bust and under the arms there should be no problem at the shoulders.


            >>>>>Do the sleeves keep this from
            happening or is the top just tight enough that it isn't going anywhere?<<<<<


            The sleeves will tend to want to pull the bodice off the shoulders, so it's the second option - make sure the bodice fits snugly under the arms and you should be fine. Fittings are your friend. :-) Good luck!



            Bella
            The Realm of Venus
            http://realmofvenus.net


            Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
            www.yahoo7.com.au/y7mail
          • Bella
            ... From: Alexandria Doyle Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: How would you make this? Whenever I make a bodice that has
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 8, 2008
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              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Alexandria Doyle <garbaholic@...>
              Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: How would you make this?

              Whenever I make a bodice that has these narrow almost off the shoulder
              lines, I make sure that the back fits well, and just barely scopes
              across the top of the shoulders. Then the front can scope down as low
              as you will, without the shoulders slipping off.<<<<<<<


              I believe that during this period the back was as low if not lower than the front, but of course that doesn't mean you can't change it to suit yourself if that's what you want. It won't be as period-accurate as a low back, but that's not always a priority. Here are some examples:

              http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/ProcReliCrossDetail.jpg
              http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/VENETIANLADYDurer1495.jpg
              http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/RelicOfTheCross2.JPG
              http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/DurerKatharina.jpg

              And mine, front: http://renaissanceitaly.net/mygarb/c1500-11.jpg and back: http://renaissanceitaly.net/mygarb/c1500-14.jpg

              Oh...and double-check the length of the bodice before attaching the skirt! This first attempt of mine ended up little long in the bodice.



              Bella
              The Realm of Venus
              http://realmofvenus.net


              Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
              www.yahoo7.com.au/y7mail
            • Trishka
              Thanks for all the suggestions. I started drafting it last night and I ll post pictures when I m done. Victoria ... From:
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 12, 2008
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                Thanks for all the suggestions. I started drafting it last night and
                I'll post pictures when I'm done.

                Victoria

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                Bella
                Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:25 PM
                To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: How would you make
                this?

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Alexandria Doyle <garbaholic@gmail.
                <mailto:garbaholic%40gmail.com> com>
                Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: How would you make
                this?

                Whenever I make a bodice that has these narrow almost off the shoulder
                lines, I make sure that the back fits well, and just barely scopes
                across the top of the shoulders. Then the front can scope down as low
                as you will, without the shoulders slipping off.<<<<<<<

                I believe that during this period the back was as low if not lower than
                the front, but of course that doesn't mean you can't change it to suit
                yourself if that's what you want. It won't be as period-accurate as a
                low back, but that's not always a priority. Here are some examples:

                http://realmofvenus
                <http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/ProcReliCrossDetail.j
                pg> .renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/ProcReliCrossDetail.jpg
                http://realmofvenus
                <http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/VENETIANLADYDurer1495
                .jpg> .renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/VENETIANLADYDurer1495.jpg
                http://realmofvenus
                <http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/RelicOfTheCross2.JPG>
                .renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/RelicOfTheCross2.JPG
                http://realmofvenus
                <http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/DurerKatharina.jpg>
                .renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/DurerKatharina.jpg

                And mine, front: http://renaissancei
                <http://renaissanceitaly.net/mygarb/c1500-11.jpg>
                taly.net/mygarb/c1500-11.jpg and back: http://renaissancei
                <http://renaissanceitaly.net/mygarb/c1500-14.jpg>
                taly.net/mygarb/c1500-14.jpg

                Oh...and double-check the length of the bodice before attaching the
                skirt! This first attempt of mine ended up little long in the bodice.

                Bella
                The Realm of Venus
                http://realmofvenus <http://realmofvenus.net> .net

                Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
                www.yahoo7.com.au/y7mail



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Trishka
                I m still working on the dress but I just wanted to thank everyone for the suggestions and to say that the mock up worked wonderfully. I just tacked a neck
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 17, 2008
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                  I'm still working on the dress but I just wanted to thank everyone for
                  the suggestions and to say that the mock up worked wonderfully. I just
                  tacked a neck band onto my pattern, it wasn't reinforced in any way and
                  yet it worked like a dream. I couldn't make the shoulders slip if I
                  tried, and yet it isn't tight or uncomfortable. I'm amazed by how
                  simple this style is to make.

                  Inspiration style -
                  http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/VENETIANCOURTESANS.jpg

                  Victoria

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Italian_Renaissance
                  <mailto:Italian_Renaissance_Costuming%40yahoogroups.com>
                  _Costuming@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:Italian_Renaissance
                  <mailto:Italian_Renaissance_Costuming%40yahoogroups.com>
                  _Costuming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Bella
                  Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:25 PM
                  To: Italian_Renaissance
                  <mailto:Italian_Renaissance_Costuming%40yahoogroups.com>
                  _Costuming@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: How would you make
                  this?

                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: Alexandria Doyle <garbaholic@gmail.
                  <mailto:garbaholic%40gmail.com> com>
                  Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: How would you make
                  this?

                  Whenever I make a bodice that has these narrow almost off the shoulder
                  lines, I make sure that the back fits well, and just barely scopes
                  across the top of the shoulders. Then the front can scope down as low
                  as you will, without the shoulders slipping off.<<<<<<<

                  I believe that during this period the back was as low if not lower than
                  the front, but of course that doesn't mean you can't change it to suit
                  yourself if that's what you want. It won't be as period-accurate as a
                  low back, but that's not always a priority. Here are some examples:

                  http://realmofvenus
                  <http://realmofvenus
                  <http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/ProcReliCrossDetail.j
                  > .renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/ProcReliCrossDetail.j
                  pg> .renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/ProcReliCrossDetail.jpg
                  http://realmofvenus
                  <http://realmofvenus
                  <http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/VENETIANLADYDurer1495
                  > .renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/VENETIANLADYDurer1495
                  .jpg> .renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/VENETIANLADYDurer1495.jpg
                  http://realmofvenus
                  <http://realmofvenus
                  <http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/RelicOfTheCross2.JPG>
                  .renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/RelicOfTheCross2.JPG>
                  .renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/RelicOfTheCross2.JPG
                  http://realmofvenus
                  <http://realmofvenus
                  <http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/DurerKatharina.jpg>
                  .renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/DurerKatharina.jpg>
                  .renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/DurerKatharina.jpg

                  And mine, front: http://renaissancei
                  <http://renaissancei <http://renaissanceitaly.net/mygarb/c1500-11.jpg>
                  taly.net/mygarb/c1500-11.jpg>
                  taly.net/mygarb/c1500-11.jpg and back: http://renaissancei
                  <http://renaissancei <http://renaissanceitaly.net/mygarb/c1500-14.jpg>
                  taly.net/mygarb/c1500-14.jpg>
                  taly.net/mygarb/c1500-14.jpg

                  Oh...and double-check the length of the bodice before attaching the
                  skirt! This first attempt of mine ended up little long in the bodice.

                  Bella
                  The Realm of Venus
                  http://realmofvenus <http://realmofvenus <http://realmofvenus.net> .net>
                  .net

                  Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
                  www.yahoo7.com.au/y7mail


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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