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Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] question about pictures

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  • Lilinah
    ... I can only guess what you mean by jewel tone blue , but what I am visualizing is a very modern color. Man-made chemical dyes date primarily from the
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 10, 2006
      At 5:07 PM -0500 07/11/06, charmedone85@... wrote:
      >Also, I'm thinking of using a lot of
      >blue in my gown. How popular was a jewel tone blue and how easily would it
      >have been acquired? Thanks!

      I can only guess what you mean by "jewel tone blue", but what I am
      visualizing is a very modern color. Man-made chemical dyes date
      primarily from the mid-19th century. The first man-made dye color was
      mauve, but others followed fairly quickly.

      The only blue dyes in SCA-period in Europe and the Near and Middle
      East were indigo and woad, which contain pretty much the same
      chemical components (there were some others in Japan, but they didn't
      make it to Europe). Indigo/woad makes a warm blue, the blue of blue
      jeans. It can be fully saturated - from almost black to a very dark
      warm navy blue, to the fairly dark blue of brand new jeans to a pale
      but still somewhat warm blue, as in a very faded pair of jeans.

      While I have not experimented with the process, I have gotten the
      idea from some of my reading that this blue could be "augmented" with
      a copper compound to make a slightly green blue, but I am not certain
      exactly if this is true, or what the color would be.

      Fiametta Basilio
    • kittencat3@charter.net
      That vivid blue is actually pretty close to one of the shades you can get on silk using either indigo or woad. The dye chemical (indigotin) is identical in
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 10, 2006
        That vivid blue is actually pretty close to one of the shades you can get on silk using either indigo or woad. The dye chemical (indigotin) is identical in both plants, but it's about four times stronger in indigo than in woad. A lot of it depends on the ph of the water used, which is why modern dyers often put washing soda in the pot to aid the process.

        Sarah
      • caitlin_oduibhir
        Vivid blue can be gotten from snail shells as well in the Mediterranean, apparently. http://www.tekhelet.com/brochure.htm Seems certain lichens can produce a
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 13, 2006
          Vivid blue can be gotten from snail shells as well in the
          Mediterranean, apparently. http://www.tekhelet.com/brochure.htm Seems
          certain lichens can produce a blue, too.
          http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/acidbase/faq/natural-indicators.shtml
          The latter may not have any historical prominence for this colour,
          however.

          Cait.


          --- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, <kittencat3@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > That vivid blue is actually pretty close to one of the shades you
          can get on silk using either indigo or woad. The dye chemical
          (indigotin) is identical in both plants, but it's about four times
          stronger in indigo than in woad. A lot of it depends on the ph of the
          water used, which is why modern dyers often put washing soda in the
          pot to aid the process.
          >
          > Sarah
          >
        • caitlin_oduibhir
          I would suspect jewel tone blue to be like a sapphire/peacock/royal shade, which the recent discussion has suggested is not *quite* accurate. That would
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 13, 2006
            I would suspect jewel tone blue to be like a sapphire/peacock/royal
            shade, which the recent discussion has suggested is not *quite*
            accurate. That would definitely be a chemical colour more correct to
            the Victorian period, BUT....
            Unless you are going wayyyyy authentic and going for competition with
            this gown, I wouldn't worry about it. It would scan wrong only to
            those keenly interested in dyes.
            I think we have amply answered how easily it would have been acquired,
            in general. The real question is, was it even worn commonly? Because
            woad would be easily acquired, it would often be considered a colour
            of the masses. Indigo may not be, since for the most part that would
            be traded for. In the painting I have recently worked from, Judith and
            Holofernes by Fede Galizia (the dress and jewellery are complete, have
            been worn, it is good, am waiting for pics from friends) she is
            wearing a distinctly blue dress. I have to wonder if there is a
            connection between her wearing blue and the fact she is Jewish? I
            can't recall an awful lot of noble Christian women depicted in that
            obvious a blue? Having found that article this morning on sea
            creatures producing a particular blue unique to Jewish culture, I
            wonder if there is a social connection? Jews outside Israel were often
            labelled with bright yellow, but what about a "pride" colour within
            their native communities?

            Salvi.

            Also, I'm thinking of using a lot of
            > blue in my gown. How popular was a jewel tone blue and how easily
            would it
            > have been acquired? Thanks!
          • charmedone85@aol.com
            Thanks for all the great info, Ladies! I m currently hunting for the perfect blue. Once I get this gown started, I ll post some pics. Thanks again! Rhonda
            Message 6 of 7 , Nov 21, 2006
              Thanks for all the great info, Ladies! I'm currently hunting for the
              perfect blue. Once I get this gown started, I'll post some pics. Thanks again!

              Rhonda


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