Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] question about pictures
- At 5:07 PM -0500 07/11/06, charmedone85@... wrote:
>Also, I'm thinking of using a lot ofI can only guess what you mean by "jewel tone blue", but what I am
>blue in my gown. How popular was a jewel tone blue and how easily would it
>have been acquired? Thanks!
visualizing is a very modern color. Man-made chemical dyes date
primarily from the mid-19th century. The first man-made dye color was
mauve, but others followed fairly quickly.
The only blue dyes in SCA-period in Europe and the Near and Middle
East were indigo and woad, which contain pretty much the same
chemical components (there were some others in Japan, but they didn't
make it to Europe). Indigo/woad makes a warm blue, the blue of blue
jeans. It can be fully saturated - from almost black to a very dark
warm navy blue, to the fairly dark blue of brand new jeans to a pale
but still somewhat warm blue, as in a very faded pair of jeans.
While I have not experimented with the process, I have gotten the
idea from some of my reading that this blue could be "augmented" with
a copper compound to make a slightly green blue, but I am not certain
exactly if this is true, or what the color would be.
- That vivid blue is actually pretty close to one of the shades you can get on silk using either indigo or woad. The dye chemical (indigotin) is identical in both plants, but it's about four times stronger in indigo than in woad. A lot of it depends on the ph of the water used, which is why modern dyers often put washing soda in the pot to aid the process.
- Vivid blue can be gotten from snail shells as well in the
Mediterranean, apparently. http://www.tekhelet.com/brochure.htm Seems
certain lichens can produce a blue, too.
The latter may not have any historical prominence for this colour,
--- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, <kittencat3@...>
>can get on silk using either indigo or woad. The dye chemical
> That vivid blue is actually pretty close to one of the shades you
(indigotin) is identical in both plants, but it's about four times
stronger in indigo than in woad. A lot of it depends on the ph of the
water used, which is why modern dyers often put washing soda in the
pot to aid the process.
- I would suspect jewel tone blue to be like a sapphire/peacock/royal
shade, which the recent discussion has suggested is not *quite*
accurate. That would definitely be a chemical colour more correct to
the Victorian period, BUT....
Unless you are going wayyyyy authentic and going for competition with
this gown, I wouldn't worry about it. It would scan wrong only to
those keenly interested in dyes.
I think we have amply answered how easily it would have been acquired,
in general. The real question is, was it even worn commonly? Because
woad would be easily acquired, it would often be considered a colour
of the masses. Indigo may not be, since for the most part that would
be traded for. In the painting I have recently worked from, Judith and
Holofernes by Fede Galizia (the dress and jewellery are complete, have
been worn, it is good, am waiting for pics from friends) she is
wearing a distinctly blue dress. I have to wonder if there is a
connection between her wearing blue and the fact she is Jewish? I
can't recall an awful lot of noble Christian women depicted in that
obvious a blue? Having found that article this morning on sea
creatures producing a particular blue unique to Jewish culture, I
wonder if there is a social connection? Jews outside Israel were often
labelled with bright yellow, but what about a "pride" colour within
their native communities?
Also, I'm thinking of using a lot of
> blue in my gown. How popular was a jewel tone blue and how easilywould it
> have been acquired? Thanks!
- Would this be considered a jewel tone?
- Thanks for all the great info, Ladies! I'm currently hunting for the
perfect blue. Once I get this gown started, I'll post some pics. Thanks again!
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