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Arnold's Eleanor of Toledo - undergarments

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  • sofia_matriani
    Greetings gentle cousins, I am making Eleanor of Toledo s dress from Arnold s Patterhns of Fashion. This is my first attempt at truly period garments. I have
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 26, 2002
      Greetings gentle cousins,

      I am making Eleanor of Toledo's dress from Arnold's Patterhns
      of Fashion. This is my first attempt at truly period garments. I
      have a few questions, if I might beg a moment of your time.

      I understand that the velvet underbodice was badly decayed and
      no trace remained of the skirt. It is *possible* that the skirt
      attached to the bodice, but that's not for sure. I'm debating
      whether to make it one or two pieces and would love to hear the
      merits of each.

      Would a bumroll and farfthingale have been worn with these
      gowns? I am guessing yes, or at least an underskirt that
      perhaps ties to the undergown with points. This would have
      made three layers of full skirt and could account for the flared
      shape.

      I have drawn out the pattern to scale and will soon begin a toile.
      Wish me luck!
    • Bella
      ... I am making Eleanor of Toledo s dress from Arnold s Patterhns of Fashion. This is my first attempt at truly period garments. I have a few questions, if I
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 26, 2002
        --- sofia_matriani <lady_storm_ryder@...>
        wrote:

        >>>>>Greetings gentle cousins,
        I am making Eleanor of Toledo's dress from Arnold's
        Patterhns of Fashion. This is my first attempt at
        truly period garments. I have a few questions, if I
        might beg a moment of your time.

        I understand that the velvet underbodice was badly
        decayed and no trace remained of the skirt. It is
        *possible* that the skirt attached to the bodice, but
        that's not for sure. I'm debating whether to make it
        one or two pieces and would love to hear the merits of
        each.<<<<<


        I would make it attach to the bodice by points, but
        that's just because I think it more plausible a method
        in period than a seperate skirt. Making a seperate
        skirt might be quicker and easier though.


        >>>>>Would a bumroll and farfthingale have been worn
        with these gowns?<<<<<

        I don't believe Florentine ladies wore farthingales or
        bumrolls.

        >>>>>I am guessing yes, or at least an underskirt that
        perhaps ties to the undergown with points. This would
        have made three layers of full skirt and could account
        for the flared shape.<<<<


        One thing to be remembered about the flared shape - we
        don't know that the dress flared like that. That is Ms
        Arnold's interpretation, and from what I read there
        was not enough left of the skirt to judge the way it
        would have looked on the body. Not to mention that
        (being made from 22" widths of fabric) there was not
        enough fabric in the skirt to make it stand out much.


        >>>>>I have drawn out the pattern to scale and will
        soon begin a toile.
        Wish me luck!<<<<<<<<


        Good luck! :)


        Bella


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      • n2kye
        ... Based on the shapes in the Milanese Tailor s Handbook, I d say that the skirt was probably gored (cut in shaped, tapered panels) and if it wasn t of a
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 27, 2002
          --- In italianrenaissancecostuming@y..., Bella
          <bella_lucia_da_verona@y...> wrote:

          > One thing to be remembered about the flared shape - we
          > don't know that the dress flared like that. That is Ms
          > Arnold's interpretation, and from what I read there
          > was not enough left of the skirt to judge the way it
          > would have looked on the body. Not to mention that
          > (being made from 22" widths of fabric) there was not
          > enough fabric in the skirt to make it stand out much.

          Based on the shapes in the Milanese Tailor's Handbook, I'd say that
          the skirt was probably gored (cut in shaped, tapered panels) and if
          it wasn't of a heavy enough fabric to keep that flared shape on its
          own (it probably *was* of that heavy a fabric!), it might have been
          mounted on a stiffer fabric in order to render it so (a standard
          practice in mid 20th-Century couturier tailoring, no idea how much it
          was used Periodly).


          Brenda
          webwarren@...
        • Bella
          ... Based on the shapes in the Milanese Tailor s Handbook, I d say that the skirt was probably gored (cut in shaped, tapered panels)
          Message 4 of 4 , Sep 28, 2002
            --- n2kye <webwarren@...> wrote:

            Based on the shapes in the Milanese Tailor's Handbook,
            I'd say that the skirt was probably gored (cut in
            shaped, tapered panels)<<<<

            It was indeed pieced to create the widths needed. But
            the back of the skirt was made up of only two 22"
            panels with the addition of small triangular gores (or
            gussets) at the lower side, and likewise the front of
            the skirt was made up of two 22" panels, but this time
            the gores were full length from the waist down. It
            still does not make for a very large hemline...


            >>>>>and if it wasn't of a heavy enough fabric to keep
            that flared shape on its own (it probably *was* of
            that heavy a fabric!), it might have been mounted on a
            stiffer fabric in order to render it so (a standard
            practice in mid 20th-Century couturier tailoring, no
            idea how much it was used Periodly).<<<<<<


            It was made of white satin, no idea how heavy this
            was. There is no indication from Ms Arnold whether the
            skirt was lined, but considering the mention of other
            things that were lined I'd say this points to a lack
            of it.


            Bella

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