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Re: New Member and Rant Question

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  • Gwen
    I will, with the caveat that THey ve remediesd the situation in the best manner possible for all involved parties and I m really happy with how it was handled.
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 16, 2005
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      I will, with the caveat that THey've remediesd the situation in the
      best manner possible for all involved parties and I'm really happy
      with how it was handled. This is the first problem I've had with them
      and intend to continue doing business with them. I'm not aiming to
      smear them because I think they provide a much needed inexpensive
      linen source.

      It was Fabrics-Store.com. It was supposed to be 9 yards and At most I
      got 5 yards in the initial shipment. The remaining fabric that I was
      supposed to get is now on its way, and I should have enough that I can
      get started on making the bodice and wait until i get the rest to whip
      up the skirt.

      Gwen

      --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Heather Rigaud
      <hmarkle@h...> wrote:
      > Hi there,
      >
      > My name is Catalina Doro and I'm a new member to the list. My
      > special area of interest is Venice 1520's. (give or take a decade)
      > I'm a costumer and cook in the East Kingdom, and I'm looking forward
      > to talking to others who have similar interests.
      >
      > Gwen: Could you tell us (me) which company you ordered the fabric
      > from? I do a class on period fabrics and modern sources for it, and I
      > like to hear about such things for my recommendations. (I also work
      > in a fabric store mundanely and am terminally nosey) How large was
      > the original piece supposed to be?
      >
      > Thanks!
      >
      > Catalina
      >
      > On Jun 15, 2005, at 1:47 PM, Gwen wrote:
      >
      > > I've almost finished the corded corset, but I ran out of bias tape for
      > > the binding. So I go to do the final prewash on the linen for the
      > > Gamurra and I've got 4 3/4 yards at best. I'd ordered it online and
      > > just thrown it right in the wash when I got it so I didn't realize it
      > > until today. plus I ordered it online so i wasn't there to watch it
      > > being measured. Long story short, i was able to talk to someome about
      > > it and they'll send the the difference of the fabric, plus an extra
      > > yart that I'll pay for myself. I'm just irritated, because I want the
      > > dress to be done in time for an event july 1-3, which will really make
      > > this a rush. rrr.
      > >
      > > Thanks for listening.
      > >
      > > Gwen
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming/
      > >
      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Heather Rigaud
      Thanks Gwen, Clearly this was just a goof up that can happen to anyone. I agree that your piece was probably cut at 5 yds. I know Fabrics-store.com quite well,
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 16, 2005
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        Thanks Gwen,

        Clearly this was just a goof up that can happen to anyone. I agree
        that your piece was probably cut at 5 yds. I know Fabrics-store.com
        quite well, having used they're fabric in the past. In fact, I
        currently have a 20 yd bolt of their 3.5 oz white nearby that has
        been slowly morphing into camicias. <g>

        Can you share some of the details of your gown?

        I just started a 1515 Venetian gown in red worsted wool. It's cut out
        and now I'm puzzling over trim. (My weak area) I'm basing it on these:

        http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
        DaughterOfHerodias.JPG (back trim, and also for ideas on w=how to
        wear it when working at Pennsic)
        http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
        ThreeSisters1520s.jpg (Using the sleeve and neckline detail on the
        far left)
        http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
        IngannatiPietrodegli.JPG (Trim and sleeve/armseye detail)

        One thing I'll be doing that is new for me is having the top of the
        sleeve cap being the top of the bodice as well. I attended a class on
        Cotehardie with Maitresse Muriel de Chimay (I have this evil 14th
        century twin) who is using this technique for her gowns, so when I
        looked at this paintings, I realized that the venetians may be doing
        the same thing for the same reason: to get that really wide neckline
        happening.

        Has any one else tried this? Any thoughts? I'm planning on backing
        the neckline/ top of sleeve with twill tape, to keep everything
        stable, and using either cartridge pleats (most likely) or simple
        gathers.

        Thanks again,

        Catalina



        On Jun 16, 2005, at 6:56 AM, Gwen wrote:

        > I will, with the caveat that THey've remediesd the situation in the
        > best manner possible for all involved parties and I'm really happy
        > with how it was handled. This is the first problem I've had with them
        > and intend to continue doing business with them. I'm not aiming to
        > smear them because I think they provide a much needed inexpensive
        > linen source.
        >
        > It was Fabrics-Store.com. It was supposed to be 9 yards and At most I
        > got 5 yards in the initial shipment. The remaining fabric that I was
        > supposed to get is now on its way, and I should have enough that I can
        > get started on making the bodice and wait until i get the rest to whip
        > up the skirt.
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Susan Farmer
        ... What I want to know is how is that hairnet affixed to her head/hair? What keeps it up? I ve got quite a few paintings of this thingy and still can t
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 16, 2005
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          --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Heather Rigaud
          <hmarkle@h...> wrote:

          > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
          > IngannatiPietrodegli.JPG (Trim and sleeve/armseye detail)
          >

          What I want to know is how is that "hairnet" affixed to her head/hair?
          What keeps it up? I've got quite a few paintings of this "thingy" and
          still can't figure it out.

          *sigh*

          Jerusha
        • Heather Rigaud
          That one I ve got! ´┐╝There is a painting, (not sure if Yahoo is going to let this through) that shows a woman at her toilette by Bellini, Venice, 1515. In
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 16, 2005
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            That one I've got!
            ´┐╝There is a painting, (not sure if Yahoo is going to let this
            through) that shows a woman at her 'toilette' by Bellini, Venice,
            1515. In it, the woman is naked, except for her headdress. (Cause
            don't we all do that? Especially when our picture is being taken)
            There is a mirror behind her, which clearly shows the back of her
            head, and Ta-da! there's a big ole' pin the size of St. Louis hold
            the darn thing on! YAY!

            It's also worth noting that these ladies had maids to dress there
            hair. I know my hairstylist can get my hair to do things I *never*
            could, and it's possible that same was true in our period.

            Here's a link to the painting:http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/
            staticE/page223.html

            Catalina


            On Jun 16, 2005, at 11:06 AM, Susan Farmer wrote:

            > --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Heather Rigaud
            > <hmarkle@h...> wrote:
            >
            > > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
            > > IngannatiPietrodegli.JPG (Trim and sleeve/armseye detail)
            > >
            >
            > What I want to know is how is that "hairnet" affixed to her head/hair?
            > What keeps it up? I've got quite a few paintings of this "thingy" and
            > still can't figure it out.
            >
            > *sigh*
            > Jerusha
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Gwen
            I was originally inspired by this painting http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/florentine/images/flor en1.jpg, but as I go along, I ve been
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 16, 2005
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              I was originally inspired by this painting
              http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/florentine/images/flor
              en1.jpg,
              but as I go along, I've been straying from it a bit. I believe it's
              circa 1515 Florence, but I'm not positive (I can't actually check the
              site from this computer). I'm using the Lily Green linen from Fabrics-
              Store.com and planning on black velvet trim. The rest is kind of up
              in the air. I've just about finished my hemp-corded corset to go
              underneath and I finished my camicia about 2 weeks ago.

              Gwen

              --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Heather Rigaud
              <hmarkle@h...> wrote:
              > Thanks Gwen,
              >
              > Clearly this was just a goof up that can happen to anyone. I agree
              > that your piece was probably cut at 5 yds. I know Fabrics-
              store.com
              > quite well, having used they're fabric in the past. In fact, I
              > currently have a 20 yd bolt of their 3.5 oz white nearby that has
              > been slowly morphing into camicias. <g>
              >
              > Can you share some of the details of your gown?
              >
              > I just started a 1515 Venetian gown in red worsted wool. It's cut
              out
              > and now I'm puzzling over trim. (My weak area) I'm basing it on
              these:
              >
              > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
              > DaughterOfHerodias.JPG (back trim, and also for ideas on w=how to
              > wear it when working at Pennsic)
              > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
              > ThreeSisters1520s.jpg (Using the sleeve and neckline detail on
              the
              > far left)
              > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
              > IngannatiPietrodegli.JPG (Trim and sleeve/armseye detail)
              >
              > One thing I'll be doing that is new for me is having the top of
              the
              > sleeve cap being the top of the bodice as well. I attended a class
              on
              > Cotehardie with Maitresse Muriel de Chimay (I have this evil 14th
              > century twin) who is using this technique for her gowns, so when I
              > looked at this paintings, I realized that the venetians may be
              doing
              > the same thing for the same reason: to get that really wide
              neckline
              > happening.
              >
              > Has any one else tried this? Any thoughts? I'm planning on backing
              > the neckline/ top of sleeve with twill tape, to keep everything
              > stable, and using either cartridge pleats (most likely) or simple
              > gathers.
              >
              > Thanks again,
              >
              > Catalina
              >
              >
              >
              > On Jun 16, 2005, at 6:56 AM, Gwen wrote:
              >
              > > I will, with the caveat that THey've remediesd the situation in
              the
              > > best manner possible for all involved parties and I'm really happy
              > > with how it was handled. This is the first problem I've had with
              them
              > > and intend to continue doing business with them. I'm not aiming to
              > > smear them because I think they provide a much needed inexpensive
              > > linen source.
              > >
              > > It was Fabrics-Store.com. It was supposed to be 9 yards and At
              most I
              > > got 5 yards in the initial shipment. The remaining fabric that I
              was
              > > supposed to get is now on its way, and I should have enough that
              I can
              > > get started on making the bodice and wait until i get the rest to
              whip
              > > up the skirt.
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Heather Rigaud
              Oh, Gwen, I love that dress. Florentine is such a great look, and we re lucky that there were so many great artists in that period to leave us a large
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 16, 2005
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                Oh, Gwen, I love that dress. Florentine is such a great look, and
                we're lucky that there were so many great artists in that period to
                leave us a large collection of paintings! Early Florentine also great
                because it can be made with "cheaper" (HAH!) fabrics and still be
                totally correct.

                (I laugh because I often pay more or my linen and wool than I do for
                my silk)

                Are you going to do the contrasting sleeves? How is the corded bodice
                working for you? I haven't experimented with that yet. My last gown
                (1520's Venetian Ribbon-Tied) has reeds at the opening to keep the
                lines straight. And for my next dress (the one that comes after the
                wool) I'm going to try doing the breast binding thing. Wish me luck!
                I have crazy huge breasts and it's always the hardest area of fitting
                for me. I'm tempted to make a corded bodice for the wool gown, but I
                worry it will be too hot for Pennsic, which is the primary reason I'm
                making it. (That and the Laurel beating on me with a stick) Hmmmmmm.

                Catalina


                On Jun 16, 2005, at 3:54 PM, Gwen wrote:

                > I was originally inspired by this painting
                > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/florentine/images/flor
                > en1.jpg,
                > but as I go along, I've been straying from it a bit. I believe it's
                > circa 1515 Florence, but I'm not positive (I can't actually check the
                > site from this computer). I'm using the Lily Green linen from Fabrics-
                > Store.com and planning on black velvet trim. The rest is kind of up
                > in the air. I've just about finished my hemp-corded corset to go
                > underneath and I finished my camicia about 2 weeks ago.
                >
                > Gwen
                >
                > --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Heather Rigaud
                > <hmarkle@h...> wrote:
                > > Thanks Gwen,
                > >
                > > Clearly this was just a goof up that can happen to anyone. I agree
                > > that your piece was probably cut at 5 yds. I know Fabrics-
                > store.com
                > > quite well, having used they're fabric in the past. In fact, I
                > > currently have a 20 yd bolt of their 3.5 oz white nearby that has
                > > been slowly morphing into camicias. <g>
                > >
                > > Can you share some of the details of your gown?
                > >
                > > I just started a 1515 Venetian gown in red worsted wool. It's cut
                > out
                > > and now I'm puzzling over trim. (My weak area) I'm basing it on
                > these:
                > >
                > > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
                > > DaughterOfHerodias.JPG (back trim, and also for ideas on w=how to
                > > wear it when working at Pennsic)
                > > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
                > > ThreeSisters1520s.jpg (Using the sleeve and neckline detail on
                > the
                > > far left)
                > > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
                > > IngannatiPietrodegli.JPG (Trim and sleeve/armseye detail)
                > >
                > > One thing I'll be doing that is new for me is having the top of
                > the
                > > sleeve cap being the top of the bodice as well. I attended a class
                > on
                > > Cotehardie with Maitresse Muriel de Chimay (I have this evil 14th
                > > century twin) who is using this technique for her gowns, so when I
                > > looked at this paintings, I realized that the venetians may be
                > doing
                > > the same thing for the same reason: to get that really wide
                > neckline
                > > happening.
                > >
                > > Has any one else tried this? Any thoughts? I'm planning on backing
                > > the neckline/ top of sleeve with twill tape, to keep everything
                > > stable, and using either cartridge pleats (most likely) or simple
                > > gathers.
                > >
                > > Thanks again,
                > >
                > > Catalina
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > On Jun 16, 2005, at 6:56 AM, Gwen wrote:
                > >
                > > > I will, with the caveat that THey've remediesd the situation in
                > the
                > > > best manner possible for all involved parties and I'm really happy
                > > > with how it was handled. This is the first problem I've had with
                > them
                > > > and intend to continue doing business with them. I'm not aiming to
                > > > smear them because I think they provide a much needed inexpensive
                > > > linen source.
                > > >
                > > > It was Fabrics-Store.com. It was supposed to be 9 yards and At
                > most I
                > > > got 5 yards in the initial shipment. The remaining fabric that I
                > was
                > > > supposed to get is now on its way, and I should have enough that
                > I can
                > > > get started on making the bodice and wait until i get the rest to
                > whip
                > > > up the skirt.
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • otsisto
                http://www.wga.hu/index1.html Click B Click Giovanni Bellini Scroll down. They have the picture and a close picture of the mirror image (detail) I don t
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 16, 2005
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                  http://www.wga.hu/index1.html
                  Click "B"
                  Click "Giovanni Bellini"
                  Scroll down.
                  They have the picture and a close picture of the mirror image (detail)

                  I don't think that it is a hair pin. That it is more a part of the hair bag (having a brain fog for the correct name)

                  Lyse


                  -----Original Message-----
                  That one I've got!
                  There is a painting, (not sure if Yahoo is going to let this
                  through) that shows a woman at her 'toilette' by Bellini, Venice,
                  1515. In it, the woman is naked, except for her headdress. (Cause
                  don't we all do that? Especially when our picture is being taken)
                  There is a mirror behind her, which clearly shows the back of her
                  head, and Ta-da! there's a big ole' pin the size of St. Louis hold
                  the darn thing on! YAY!

                  It's also worth noting that these ladies had maids to dress there
                  hair. I know my hairstylist can get my hair to do things I *never*
                  could, and it's possible that same was true in our period.

                  Here's a link to the painting:http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/
                  staticE/page223.html

                  Catalina
                • Gwen
                  I m planning a couple different contrasting sleeve options. I m thinking a copper/rust color set and a burgundy brocade set. The corder bodice is working
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 17, 2005
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                    I'm planning a couple different contrasting sleeve options. I'm
                    thinking a copper/rust color set and a burgundy brocade set.

                    The corder bodice is working pretty well. My only issue with it is
                    that I didn't plan for weight loss and the stretchiness of the linen.
                    I was hoping to have about an inch gap on either side and it turned
                    out too big, so I had to take it in at the back. It gives a nice
                    silhouette, and smooths over some of my figure imperfections just
                    enough. It's a little heavy, but I'm hoping that since I made it from
                    all natural fibers, and the gown will be too, that it shouldn't get
                    too terribly hot.

                    I'd love to see pictures of the ribbon tied gown if you'd care to
                    post them.

                    Gwen

                    --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Heather Rigaud
                    <hmarkle@h...> wrote:
                    > Oh, Gwen, I love that dress. Florentine is such a great look, and
                    > we're lucky that there were so many great artists in that period
                    to
                    > leave us a large collection of paintings! Early Florentine also
                    great
                    > because it can be made with "cheaper" (HAH!) fabrics and still be
                    > totally correct.
                    >
                    > (I laugh because I often pay more or my linen and wool than I do
                    for
                    > my silk)
                    >
                    > Are you going to do the contrasting sleeves? How is the corded
                    bodice
                    > working for you? I haven't experimented with that yet. My last
                    gown
                    > (1520's Venetian Ribbon-Tied) has reeds at the opening to keep the
                    > lines straight. And for my next dress (the one that comes after
                    the
                    > wool) I'm going to try doing the breast binding thing. Wish me
                    luck!
                    > I have crazy huge breasts and it's always the hardest area of
                    fitting
                    > for me. I'm tempted to make a corded bodice for the wool gown, but
                    I
                    > worry it will be too hot for Pennsic, which is the primary reason
                    I'm
                    > making it. (That and the Laurel beating on me with a stick) Hmmmmmm.
                    >
                    > Catalina
                    >
                    >
                    > On Jun 16, 2005, at 3:54 PM, Gwen wrote:
                    >
                    > > I was originally inspired by this painting
                    > >
                    http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/florentine/images/flor
                    > > en1.jpg,
                    > > but as I go along, I've been straying from it a bit. I believe
                    it's
                    > > circa 1515 Florence, but I'm not positive (I can't actually check
                    the
                    > > site from this computer). I'm using the Lily Green linen from
                    Fabrics-
                    > > Store.com and planning on black velvet trim. The rest is kind of
                    up
                    > > in the air. I've just about finished my hemp-corded corset to go
                    > > underneath and I finished my camicia about 2 weeks ago.
                    > >
                    > > Gwen
                    > >
                    > > --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Heather
                    Rigaud
                    > > <hmarkle@h...> wrote:
                    > > > Thanks Gwen,
                    > > >
                    > > > Clearly this was just a goof up that can happen to anyone. I
                    agree
                    > > > that your piece was probably cut at 5 yds. I know Fabrics-
                    > > store.com
                    > > > quite well, having used they're fabric in the past. In fact, I
                    > > > currently have a 20 yd bolt of their 3.5 oz white nearby that
                    has
                    > > > been slowly morphing into camicias. <g>
                    > > >
                    > > > Can you share some of the details of your gown?
                    > > >
                    > > > I just started a 1515 Venetian gown in red worsted wool. It's
                    cut
                    > > out
                    > > > and now I'm puzzling over trim. (My weak area) I'm basing it on
                    > > these:
                    > > >
                    > > > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
                    > > > DaughterOfHerodias.JPG (back trim, and also for ideas on w=how
                    to
                    > > > wear it when working at Pennsic)
                    > > > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
                    > > > ThreeSisters1520s.jpg (Using the sleeve and neckline detail on
                    > > the
                    > > > far left)
                    > > > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
                    > > > IngannatiPietrodegli.JPG (Trim and sleeve/armseye detail)
                    > > >
                    > > > One thing I'll be doing that is new for me is having the top of
                    > > the
                    > > > sleeve cap being the top of the bodice as well. I attended a
                    class
                    > > on
                    > > > Cotehardie with Maitresse Muriel de Chimay (I have this evil
                    14th
                    > > > century twin) who is using this technique for her gowns, so
                    when I
                    > > > looked at this paintings, I realized that the venetians may be
                    > > doing
                    > > > the same thing for the same reason: to get that really wide
                    > > neckline
                    > > > happening.
                    > > >
                    > > > Has any one else tried this? Any thoughts? I'm planning on
                    backing
                    > > > the neckline/ top of sleeve with twill tape, to keep everything
                    > > > stable, and using either cartridge pleats (most likely) or
                    simple
                    > > > gathers.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks again,
                    > > >
                    > > > Catalina
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > On Jun 16, 2005, at 6:56 AM, Gwen wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > > I will, with the caveat that THey've remediesd the situation
                    in
                    > > the
                    > > > > best manner possible for all involved parties and I'm really
                    happy
                    > > > > with how it was handled. This is the first problem I've had
                    with
                    > > them
                    > > > > and intend to continue doing business with them. I'm not
                    aiming to
                    > > > > smear them because I think they provide a much needed
                    inexpensive
                    > > > > linen source.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > It was Fabrics-Store.com. It was supposed to be 9 yards and At
                    > > most I
                    > > > > got 5 yards in the initial shipment. The remaining fabric
                    that I
                    > > was
                    > > > > supposed to get is now on its way, and I should have enough
                    that
                    > > I can
                    > > > > get started on making the bodice and wait until i get the
                    rest to
                    > > whip
                    > > > > up the skirt.
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming/
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service.
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Heather Rigaud
                    Oh, good job finding the close up! Looking at it, I notice the bag part of the hat is gathered slightly beneath the pin/broach/thing. I think the broach is a
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 17, 2005
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                      Oh, good job finding the close up! Looking at it, I notice the 'bag'
                      part of the hat is gathered slightly beneath the pin/broach/thing. I
                      think the broach is a type of barrette or comb there, and the beading
                      around the top of the bag looks pretty stable, there might be some
                      combs under there as well. If you look at the hairstyles from the
                      period, the hair is often pulled back from the ears, and that would
                      give the comb/pins/whatever something to grab onto.

                      This is all guess work, if someone has a better idea, I'd love to
                      hear it.

                      Catalina


                      On Jun 17, 2005, at 12:11 AM, otsisto wrote:

                      > http://www.wga.hu/index1.html
                      > Click "B"
                      > Click "Giovanni Bellini"
                      > Scroll down.
                      > They have the picture and a close picture of the mirror image (detail)
                      >
                      > I don't think that it is a hair pin. That it is more a part of the
                      > hair bag (having a brain fog for the correct name)
                      >
                      > Lyse
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > That one I've got!
                      > There is a painting, (not sure if Yahoo is going to let this
                      > through) that shows a woman at her 'toilette' by Bellini, Venice,
                      > 1515. In it, the woman is naked, except for her headdress. (Cause
                      > don't we all do that? Especially when our picture is being taken)
                      > There is a mirror behind her, which clearly shows the back of her
                      > head, and Ta-da! there's a big ole' pin the size of St. Louis hold
                      > the darn thing on! YAY!
                      >
                      > It's also worth noting that these ladies had maids to dress there
                      > hair. I know my hairstylist can get my hair to do things I *never*
                      > could, and it's possible that same was true in our period.
                      >
                      > Here's a link to the painting:http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/
                      > staticE/page223.html
                      >
                      > Catalina
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming/
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Susan Farmer
                      ... Yeah -- I m always looking for stuff that I can actually do with my hair. I *hate* having my ears covered up -- generates too much sea shell type noise.
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 17, 2005
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                        --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Heather Rigaud
                        <hmarkle@h...> wrote:
                        > Oh, good job finding the close up! Looking at it, I notice the 'bag'
                        > part of the hat is gathered slightly beneath the pin/broach/thing. I
                        > think the broach is a type of barrette or comb there, and the beading
                        > around the top of the bag looks pretty stable, there might be some
                        > combs under there as well. If you look at the hairstyles from the
                        > period, the hair is often pulled back from the ears, and that would
                        > give the comb/pins/whatever something to grab onto.
                        >

                        Yeah -- I'm always looking for stuff that I can actually do with my
                        hair. I *hate* having my ears covered up -- generates too much "sea
                        shell" type noise. :-( The other problem is that I have baby fine,
                        *thin* hair -- and a lot of stuff just won't stay up. There's a lady
                        in my Barony that makes gorgeous beaded cauls/snoods. Nice comb for
                        the top of your head. Won't stay up. :-( You know those spring
                        loaded clips that are the rage right now to hold your hair up? Not on
                        my head. The clips are too heavy.

                        Yeah, can't find straw hats either (if you were on the group with that
                        discussion).

                        Jerusha
                      • Heather Rigaud
                        Oh, that sounds nice. I really love that the Italians had the wonderful idea of mix & match sleeves. Linen is WAY different in it s stretch from cotton. I ve
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 18, 2005
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                          Oh, that sounds nice. I really love that the Italians had the
                          wonderful idea of mix & match sleeves.

                          Linen is WAY different in it's stretch from cotton. I've found that
                          period designs that were just *not* happening when I did them in
                          cotton would actually work in linen or wool. (Silk is a whole
                          different ball of wax) I found it really interesting using reeds over
                          steel or plastic boning- very different feel.

                          I'll post a picture of the ribbon-tie gown- with the provision that
                          it's not finished. I need to make the undersleeves and do some
                          trimming alone the neckline/sleeve ends. <g> I also need to do
                          something with my hair, but that's a different story. It was one of
                          those "I have to be in court WHEN???" 'make a gown in a week jobs'. I
                          got lucky and found blue silk satin for 10$ a yard. The bodice is
                          lined with two layers of black linen, and the sleeves are underlined
                          with silk organdy and lined with black china silk. The skirt is lined
                          with the china silk as well. I really was pleased with the organdy
                          for making the sleeves puff the way they're supposed too. When I make
                          the undersleeves they will be dark green above the elbow and gold
                          satin for the large cuff.

                          Anyway, the photos are up in the album labeled 'Catalina', along with
                          the main painting it's based off of.

                          Catalina



                          On Jun 17, 2005, at 11:46 AM, Gwen wrote:

                          > I'm planning a couple different contrasting sleeve options. I'm
                          > thinking a copper/rust color set and a burgundy brocade set.
                          >
                          > The corder bodice is working pretty well. My only issue with it is
                          > that I didn't plan for weight loss and the stretchiness of the linen.
                          > I was hoping to have about an inch gap on either side and it turned
                          > out too big, so I had to take it in at the back. It gives a nice
                          > silhouette, and smooths over some of my figure imperfections just
                          > enough. It's a little heavy, but I'm hoping that since I made it from
                          > all natural fibers, and the gown will be too, that it shouldn't get
                          > too terribly hot.
                          >
                          > I'd love to see pictures of the ribbon tied gown if you'd care to
                          > post them.
                          >
                          > Gwen
                          >
                          > --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Heather Rigaud
                          > <hmarkle@h...> wrote:
                          > > Oh, Gwen, I love that dress. Florentine is such a great look, and
                          > > we're lucky that there were so many great artists in that period
                          > to
                          > > leave us a large collection of paintings! Early Florentine also
                          > great
                          > > because it can be made with "cheaper" (HAH!) fabrics and still be
                          > > totally correct.
                          > >
                          > > (I laugh because I often pay more or my linen and wool than I do
                          > for
                          > > my silk)
                          > >
                          > > Are you going to do the contrasting sleeves? How is the corded
                          > bodice
                          > > working for you? I haven't experimented with that yet. My last
                          > gown
                          > > (1520's Venetian Ribbon-Tied) has reeds at the opening to keep the
                          > > lines straight. And for my next dress (the one that comes after
                          > the
                          > > wool) I'm going to try doing the breast binding thing. Wish me
                          > luck!
                          > > I have crazy huge breasts and it's always the hardest area of
                          > fitting
                          > > for me. I'm tempted to make a corded bodice for the wool gown, but
                          > I
                          > > worry it will be too hot for Pennsic, which is the primary reason
                          > I'm
                          > > making it. (That and the Laurel beating on me with a stick) Hmmmmmm.
                          > >
                          > > Catalina
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On Jun 16, 2005, at 3:54 PM, Gwen wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > I was originally inspired by this painting
                          > > >
                          > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/florentine/images/flor
                          > > > en1.jpg,
                          > > > but as I go along, I've been straying from it a bit. I believe
                          > it's
                          > > > circa 1515 Florence, but I'm not positive (I can't actually check
                          > the
                          > > > site from this computer). I'm using the Lily Green linen from
                          > Fabrics-
                          > > > Store.com and planning on black velvet trim. The rest is kind of
                          > up
                          > > > in the air. I've just about finished my hemp-corded corset to go
                          > > > underneath and I finished my camicia about 2 weeks ago.
                          > > >
                          > > > Gwen
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Heather
                          > Rigaud
                          > > > <hmarkle@h...> wrote:
                          > > > > Thanks Gwen,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Clearly this was just a goof up that can happen to anyone. I
                          > agree
                          > > > > that your piece was probably cut at 5 yds. I know Fabrics-
                          > > > store.com
                          > > > > quite well, having used they're fabric in the past. In fact, I
                          > > > > currently have a 20 yd bolt of their 3.5 oz white nearby that
                          > has
                          > > > > been slowly morphing into camicias. <g>
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Can you share some of the details of your gown?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I just started a 1515 Venetian gown in red worsted wool. It's
                          > cut
                          > > > out
                          > > > > and now I'm puzzling over trim. (My weak area) I'm basing it on
                          > > > these:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
                          > > > > DaughterOfHerodias.JPG (back trim, and also for ideas on w=how
                          > to
                          > > > > wear it when working at Pennsic)
                          > > > > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
                          > > > > ThreeSisters1520s.jpg (Using the sleeve and neckline detail on
                          > > > the
                          > > > > far left)
                          > > > > http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/
                          > > > > IngannatiPietrodegli.JPG (Trim and sleeve/armseye detail)
                          > > > >
                          > > > > One thing I'll be doing that is new for me is having the top of
                          > > > the
                          > > > > sleeve cap being the top of the bodice as well. I attended a
                          > class
                          > > > on
                          > > > > Cotehardie with Maitresse Muriel de Chimay (I have this evil
                          > 14th
                          > > > > century twin) who is using this technique for her gowns, so
                          > when I
                          > > > > looked at this paintings, I realized that the venetians may be
                          > > > doing
                          > > > > the same thing for the same reason: to get that really wide
                          > > > neckline
                          > > > > happening.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Has any one else tried this? Any thoughts? I'm planning on
                          > backing
                          > > > > the neckline/ top of sleeve with twill tape, to keep everything
                          > > > > stable, and using either cartridge pleats (most likely) or
                          > simple
                          > > > > gathers.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Thanks again,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Catalina
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > On Jun 16, 2005, at 6:56 AM, Gwen wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > > I will, with the caveat that THey've remediesd the situation
                          > in
                          > > > the
                          > > > > > best manner possible for all involved parties and I'm really
                          > happy
                          > > > > > with how it was handled. This is the first problem I've had
                          > with
                          > > > them
                          > > > > > and intend to continue doing business with them. I'm not
                          > aiming to
                          > > > > > smear them because I think they provide a much needed
                          > inexpensive
                          > > > > > linen source.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > It was Fabrics-Store.com. It was supposed to be 9 yards and At
                          > > > most I
                          > > > > > got 5 yards in the initial shipment. The remaining fabric
                          > that I
                          > > > was
                          > > > > > supposed to get is now on its way, and I should have enough
                          > that
                          > > > I can
                          > > > > > get started on making the bodice and wait until i get the
                          > rest to
                          > > > whip
                          > > > > > up the skirt.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming/
                          > > >
                          > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > > Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > > >
                          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                          > Service.
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming/
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
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                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Crystal James
                          I have found a way around the baby fine hair and snood problem. I don t know if it would work for you or be a look that you would like. I use my own hair as
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jun 18, 2005
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                            I have found a way around the baby fine hair and snood problem. I don't know if it would work for you or be a look that you would like. I use my own hair as an anchor at the top. I braid the hair right above my ear one on each side. Loop them over the top of your head where you want the top of your snood to set (I use a lot of bobby pins at this point and ribbon to hide the bobby pins if needed). Depending on if you want your braids to show or not is how thick you make the braids. Then I either pin or use ribbons to attach the snood either over the braids to hide them or under the braids to show them off. As my hair has gotten longer (it is now past my rear end) I have had to get creative in how I put my hair in the snood so that the weight of it doesn't pull the snood off. (it is a litle irritating when you turn your head and your hand made snood slides down your back and falls in the dirt). I have put my hair in a pony tail and then wrapped the ends around the ponytail
                            holder and stuffed it in a snood. I have put my hair in a bun at the base of my neck then used false hair to fill in the snood. It just depends on how big the snood is and how heavy it is to begin with. And if I want to deal with wispys and hair excaping the snood.

                            I hope this helps...

                            Ministra
                            A very Lost Soul

                            Susan Farmer <sfarmer@...> wrote:
                            --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Heather Rigaud
                            <hmarkle@h...> wrote:
                            > Oh, good job finding the close up! Looking at it, I notice the 'bag'
                            > part of the hat is gathered slightly beneath the pin/broach/thing. I
                            > think the broach is a type of barrette or comb there, and the beading
                            > around the top of the bag looks pretty stable, there might be some
                            > combs under there as well. If you look at the hairstyles from the
                            > period, the hair is often pulled back from the ears, and that would
                            > give the comb/pins/whatever something to grab onto.
                            >

                            Yeah -- I'm always looking for stuff that I can actually do with my
                            hair. I *hate* having my ears covered up -- generates too much "sea
                            shell" type noise. :-( The other problem is that I have baby fine,
                            *thin* hair -- and a lot of stuff just won't stay up. There's a lady
                            in my Barony that makes gorgeous beaded cauls/snoods. Nice comb for
                            the top of your head. Won't stay up. :-( You know those spring
                            loaded clips that are the rage right now to hold your hair up? Not on
                            my head. The clips are too heavy.

                            Yeah, can't find straw hats either (if you were on the group with that
                            discussion).

                            Jerusha





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