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  • Laita da Padova
    hi all, i spent part of spring break visiting the art museum in St. Louis (USA) and i ran across a couple of portraits i found interesting enough to share.
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 26, 2005
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      hi all,

      i spent part of spring break visiting the art museum in St. Louis (USA) and i ran across a couple of portraits i found interesting enough to share.

      Roman courtesan (1625). i know it's a bit out of sca period, but i thought the ribbons with tippets illustrating how they were used to lace her sleeves on was pretty cool.

      http://urlsnip.com/507500 type in courtesan



      Florentine nobleman (1546-48). i loved the fastenings on his sleeves, and i wondered if anyone had seen them on ladies sleeves. over the red undersleeve are the fastenings for the black oversleeve. on the left side (back part of his arm) there are buttons (appear to be made out of twisted cording- visible in person) and on the front part of his sleeve (right side of picture) are loops of the cording which loop around the "button".

      i know it's hard to tell in the picture (so if anyone has a better photo, please let me know), but it's very obvious when you can get your nose an inch away from the paint). in the photo, it's the most clear on the second button from the top over the red undersleeve.

      http://urlsnip.com/507500 type in florentine it's the Portrait of a Florentine Nobleman


      -Laita

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    • Diana Habra
      ... Cool picture! However the woman is not Roman. The painter is Dutch and the style is very much Dutch. I agree with you that the sleeve lacings are neat
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 26, 2005
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        > hi all,
        >
        > i spent part of spring break visiting the art museum in St. Louis (USA)
        > and i ran across a couple of portraits i found interesting enough to
        > share.
        >
        > Roman courtesan (1625). i know it's a bit out of sca period, but i
        > thought the ribbons with tippets illustrating how they were used to lace
        > her sleeves on was pretty cool.
        >
        > http://urlsnip.com/507500 type in courtesan

        Cool picture! However the woman is not Roman. The painter is Dutch and
        the style is very much Dutch.

        I agree with you that the sleeve lacings are neat and I also like how the
        bodice is red, the sleeves are gold, and the lacings are green.

        Diana

        www.RenaissanceFabrics.net
        "Everything for the Costumer"
      • Laita da Padova
        Hi Diana, Don t worry, I can see how you d make that assumption. Unfortunately, the website doesn t give very much info about the history of the painting.
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 26, 2005
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          Hi Diana,

          Don't worry, I can see how you'd make that assumption. Unfortunately, the website doesn't give very much info about the history of the painting.

          Interestingly, the placard by the portrait in the museum detailed how the Dutch artist was visiting Rome with several fellow artisans, and while in Rome he painted this portrait of a Roman courtesan. It went on to tell about the prevalence of the miniature portraits in Rome, and theorized that the mini portrait the courtesan is holding was used as a form of advertising for her services, and referred to the translation of the saying printed on the mini... which if I recall was a lewd play on words about her behind.

          I cannot speak about the likeness to Dutch styles of dress or technique, because that's not my area of study, but I will defer to the curators of the St. Louis Art Museum, and trust that they have correctly identified this portrait which resides in their permanent collection as by a Dutch artist painted in Rome.

          -Laita
          Cool picture! However the woman is not Roman. The painter is Dutch and
          the style is very much Dutch.



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        • Allison Stanley
          This past winter there was an art exhibit at UGA of paintings by Dutch artists who visited Rome. The paintings in this collection were mostly landscapes...but
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 26, 2005
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            This past winter there was an art exhibit at UGA of paintings by Dutch artists who visited Rome. The paintings in this collection were mostly landscapes...but there was a trend at that time of Dutch and other European artists who did travel to many parts of Italy.

            Allegranza

            Laita da Padova <laita_dapadova@...> wrote:
            Hi Diana,

            Don't worry, I can see how you'd make that assumption. Unfortunately, the website doesn't give very much info about the history of the painting.

            Interestingly, the placard by the portrait in the museum detailed how the Dutch artist was visiting Rome with several fellow artisans, and while in Rome he painted this portrait of a Roman courtesan. It went on to tell about the prevalence of the miniature portraits in Rome, and theorized that the mini portrait the courtesan is holding was used as a form of advertising for her services, and referred to the translation of the saying printed on the mini... which if I recall was a lewd play on words about her behind.

            I cannot speak about the likeness to Dutch styles of dress or technique, because that's not my area of study, but I will defer to the curators of the St. Louis Art Museum, and trust that they have correctly identified this portrait which resides in their permanent collection as by a Dutch artist painted in Rome.

            -Laita
            Cool picture! However the woman is not Roman. The painter is Dutch and
            the style is very much Dutch.



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            MOC
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          • Allison Stanley
            Forget what I just said....this exhibit was a much later period...actually out of SCA period....I m getting my century s and painters mixed up.....
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 26, 2005
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              Forget what I just said....this exhibit was a much later period...actually out of SCA period....I'm getting my century's and painters mixed up.....

              Allegrana....::blushing with embarassment::

              Allison Stanley <ldy_allegranza@...> wrote:
              This past winter there was an art exhibit at UGA of paintings by Dutch artists who visited Rome. The paintings in this collection were mostly landscapes...but there was a trend at that time of Dutch and other European artists who did travel to many parts of Italy.

              Allegranza

              Laita da Padova <laita_dapadova@...> wrote:
              Hi Diana,

              Don't worry, I can see how you'd make that assumption. Unfortunately, the website doesn't give very much info about the history of the painting.

              Interestingly, the placard by the portrait in the museum detailed how the Dutch artist was visiting Rome with several fellow artisans, and while in Rome he painted this portrait of a Roman courtesan. It went on to tell about the prevalence of the miniature portraits in Rome, and theorized that the mini portrait the courtesan is holding was used as a form of advertising for her services, and referred to the translation of the saying printed on the mini... which if I recall was a lewd play on words about her behind.

              I cannot speak about the likeness to Dutch styles of dress or technique, because that's not my area of study, but I will defer to the curators of the St. Louis Art Museum, and trust that they have correctly identified this portrait which resides in their permanent collection as by a Dutch artist painted in Rome.

              -Laita
              Cool picture! However the woman is not Roman. The painter is Dutch and
              the style is very much Dutch.



              __________________________________________________
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ---------------------------------
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              To visit your group on the web, go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming/

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              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



              In Loving Service to Kingdom and Shire,

              Signora Allegranza Maria di Rossi
              MOC
              Shire of Beau Fort

              Ciao Bella!!




              __________________________________________________
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              ---------------------------------
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              Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



              In Loving Service to Kingdom and Shire,

              Signora Allegranza Maria di Rossi
              MOC
              Shire of Beau Fort

              Ciao Bella!!




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            • lmmcbeth
              Hi all, I was interested in what Laita described about the sleeve detail in the portrait of the Florentine man, so I monkied with it, and managed to get a
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 27, 2005
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                Hi all,

                I was interested in what Laita described about the sleeve detail in
                the portrait of the Florentine man, so I monkied with it, and managed
                to get a brightened copy of it. Now, this is not a "better" picture,
                but it does allow us to see the detail on the sleeve.

                I don't know how to create a link here, so if it doesn't work you can
                cut and paste the address.

                http://www.freewebs.com/lmcbeth/florentineman.jpg

                if you can enlarge it, the detail gets even more clear. Thanks Liata
                for sharing your find, I really like this look and will probably
                sneak it into the Gentleman's Garb I'm working on and maybe onto my
                own detachable sleeve.

                You can see my diaries at: http://www.freewebs.com/lmcbeth

                Please note I have recently grown out of my free website and will
                probably be moving as soon as I can find a new home.

                Laura

                --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Laita da
                Padova <laita_dapadova@y...> wrote:
                > hi all,
                >
                > i spent part of spring break visiting the art museum in St. Louis
                (USA) and i ran across a couple of portraits i found interesting
                enough to share.
                >
                > Roman courtesan (1625). i know it's a bit out of sca period, but i
                thought the ribbons with tippets illustrating how they were used to
                lace her sleeves on was pretty cool.
                >
                > http://urlsnip.com/507500 type in courtesan
                >
                >
                >
                > Florentine nobleman (1546-48). i loved the fastenings on his
                sleeves, and i wondered if anyone had seen them on ladies sleeves.
                over the red undersleeve are the fastenings for the black oversleeve.
                on the left side (back part of his arm) there are buttons (appear to
                be made out of twisted cording- visible in person) and on the front
                part of his sleeve (right side of picture) are loops of the cording
                which loop around the "button".
                >
                > i know it's hard to tell in the picture (so if anyone has a better
                photo, please let me know), but it's very obvious when you can get
                your nose an inch away from the paint). in the photo, it's the most
                clear on the second button from the top over the red undersleeve.
                >
                > http://urlsnip.com/507500 type in florentine it's the Portrait of
                a Florentine Nobleman
                >
                >
                > -Laita
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • lmmcbeth
                Sorry....I copied the wrong link... here s the right one... http://www.freewebs.com/lmcbeth/florentineman.htm hope that one works ;) ... managed ... picture,
                Message 7 of 7 , Apr 27, 2005
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                  Sorry....I copied the wrong link...

                  here's the right one...

                  http://www.freewebs.com/lmcbeth/florentineman.htm

                  hope that one works ;)

                  --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "lmmcbeth"
                  <mcbetl@p...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi all,
                  >
                  > I was interested in what Laita described about the sleeve detail in
                  > the portrait of the Florentine man, so I monkied with it, and
                  managed
                  > to get a brightened copy of it. Now, this is not a "better"
                  picture,
                  > but it does allow us to see the detail on the sleeve.
                  >
                  > I don't know how to create a link here, so if it doesn't work you
                  can
                  > cut and paste the address.
                  >
                  > http://www.freewebs.com/lmcbeth/florentineman.jpg
                  >
                  > if you can enlarge it, the detail gets even more clear. Thanks
                  Liata
                  > for sharing your find, I really like this look and will probably
                  > sneak it into the Gentleman's Garb I'm working on and maybe onto my
                  > own detachable sleeve.
                  >
                  > You can see my diaries at: http://www.freewebs.com/lmcbeth
                  >
                  > Please note I have recently grown out of my free website and will
                  > probably be moving as soon as I can find a new home.
                  >
                  > Laura
                  >
                  > --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Laita da
                  > Padova <laita_dapadova@y...> wrote:
                  > > hi all,
                  > >
                  > > i spent part of spring break visiting the art museum in St. Louis
                  > (USA) and i ran across a couple of portraits i found interesting
                  > enough to share.
                  > >
                  > > Roman courtesan (1625). i know it's a bit out of sca period, but
                  i
                  > thought the ribbons with tippets illustrating how they were used to
                  > lace her sleeves on was pretty cool.
                  > >
                  > > http://urlsnip.com/507500 type in courtesan
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Florentine nobleman (1546-48). i loved the fastenings on his
                  > sleeves, and i wondered if anyone had seen them on ladies sleeves.
                  > over the red undersleeve are the fastenings for the black
                  oversleeve.
                  > on the left side (back part of his arm) there are buttons (appear
                  to
                  > be made out of twisted cording- visible in person) and on the front
                  > part of his sleeve (right side of picture) are loops of the cording
                  > which loop around the "button".
                  > >
                  > > i know it's hard to tell in the picture (so if anyone has a
                  better
                  > photo, please let me know), but it's very obvious when you can get
                  > your nose an inch away from the paint). in the photo, it's the
                  most
                  > clear on the second button from the top over the red undersleeve.
                  > >
                  > > http://urlsnip.com/507500 type in florentine it's the Portrait
                  of
                  > a Florentine Nobleman
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > -Laita
                  > >
                  > > __________________________________________________
                  > > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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