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Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Have you voted for your favourite Italian costume yet?

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  • Jacki/Erik
    Bella No, I haven t voted yet. It is difficult to make a decision with such lovlies to chose from. Also, first, I wish to express my appreciation and
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 2, 2005
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      Bella

      No, I haven't voted yet. It is difficult to make a decision with such
      lovlies to chose from.

      Also, first, I wish to express my appreciation and gratitude for your
      wonderful Realm of Venus site. It has and continued to be an inspiration to
      me. Thanks everso and keep up the good work.

      Second, I am in the midst of planning my next Italian garment. I have
      refined my time period to between 1515 and 1525. My question is about the
      camicia that have those lovely large angel wing sleeves that are
      'restrained" with another sleeve. What are those restraining sleeves
      attached to? Is the angel wing sleeve attached to the sleeve of the dress
      and there another sleeve to the camicia for that restraining sleeve to fit
      over?

      I have many more questions but will not go into them here. In trying to
      write to you through you site, my email was kicked back. So as soon as I
      get my email fixed I can write to you and not take up space on this list.

      Third, I also wish to give my thanks to the many contributors to this list.
      You are all an inspiration. Thanks for bringing me back into the fold, I
      had wondered over to early period clothing but I am back home now.

      Elspeth Bouchannane
      Oertha, West
      >
    • Lorralei Burton
      hi Elspeth, I have made a dress from 11515to1525 there is a picture of it on the yahoo group run by bella, its under Caterinaagnita and it is a red dress would
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 2, 2005
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        hi Elspeth,
        I have made a dress from 11515to1525 there is a picture of it on the
        yahoo group run by bella, its under Caterinaagnita and it is a red
        dress would be happy to disscuss it with you anytime, you can email
        me on via the thread.If you have a particualar dress in mind I could
        help you more

        Agnita Loredan de ROvigo
        Bordescros

        --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "Jacki/Erik"
        <edenwild@m...> wrote:
        > Bella
        >
        > No, I haven't voted yet. It is difficult to make a decision with
        such
        > lovlies to chose from.
        >
        > Also, first, I wish to express my appreciation and gratitude for
        your
        > wonderful Realm of Venus site. It has and continued to be an
        inspiration to
        > me. Thanks everso and keep up the good work.
        >
        > Second, I am in the midst of planning my next Italian garment. I
        have
        > refined my time period to between 1515 and 1525. My question is
        about the
        > camicia that have those lovely large angel wing sleeves that are
        > 'restrained" with another sleeve. What are those restraining
        sleeves
        > attached to? Is the angel wing sleeve attached to the sleeve of
        the dress
        > and there another sleeve to the camicia for that restraining sleeve
        to fit
        > over?
        >
        > I have many more questions but will not go into them here. In
        trying to
        > write to you through you site, my email was kicked back. So as
        soon as I
        > get my email fixed I can write to you and not take up space on this
        list.
        >
        > Third, I also wish to give my thanks to the many contributors to
        this list.
        > You are all an inspiration. Thanks for bringing me back into the
        fold, I
        > had wondered over to early period clothing but I am back home now.
        >
        > Elspeth Bouchannane
        > Oertha, West
        > >
      • Bella
        ... So I ve heard! :-) It s over now though, and the winners are online, if you d like to take a look. ... Thank you! I will try my best. :-) ... Do you mean
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 2, 2005
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          --- Jacki/Erik <edenwild@...> wrote:
          >
          > Bella
          >
          > No, I haven't voted yet. It is difficult to
          > make a decision with such
          > lovlies to chose from.

          So I've heard! :-) It's over now though, and the
          winners are online, if you'd like to take a look.


          >
          > Also, first, I wish to express my appreciation
          > and gratitude for your
          > wonderful Realm of Venus site. It has and
          > continued to be an inspiration to
          > me. Thanks everso and keep up the good work.

          Thank you! I will try my best. :-)



          >
          > Second, I am in the midst of planning my next
          > Italian garment. I have
          > refined my time period to between 1515 and
          > 1525. My question is about the
          > camicia that have those lovely large angel wing
          > sleeves that are
          > 'restrained" with another sleeve.<snip>


          Do you mean that the dress sleeve itself is
          restrained by another sleeve? Could you please
          give me a link to the image in question? I'm just
          not picturing what you mean.

          I know in some instances it looks as if there is
          an under-sleeve that restrains the camicia
          sleeve, but this doesn't sound like what you are
          describing. Sorry to sound so be-fuddled,but I
          will do my best to answer your questions if you
          can send me a link and ask again?


          Bella




          Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
          http://au.movies.yahoo.com
        • Jacki/Erik
          Bella and (hi) Agnita Loredon Thanks for your prompt replies. Examples of the sleeves of my question are: Titian- Sacred and profane - lady seems to have a
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 3, 2005
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            Bella and (hi) Agnita Loredon

            Thanks for your prompt replies.

            Examples of the sleeves of my question are:

            Titian- Sacred and profane - lady seems to have a dress sleeve, a camicia
            sleeve and then a red sleeve (on one side) and on the other dress sleeve and
            camicia sleeve above her glove.

            Lotto's Christ taking leave of his mother - the lady (Elizabetta Rota) has
            dress sleeve, camicia sleeve and then a bit of red sleeve showing under
            that.

            I have seen others, but cannot put my hands on them at this time.
            Or perhaps my brain is a bit fuzzled with the making of grandson garb for
            our coronet a couple of weeks ago.

            I really appreciate any enlightenment. ;o)

            Elspeth Bouchananne
            Oertha, West
          • Bella
            ... I have a full page image of this in my book on Titian luckily, so it s fairly easy to see what s going on. The lady appears to be wearing only one
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 3, 2005
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              --- Jacki/Erik <edenwild@...> wrote:
              >
              > Bella and (hi) Agnita Loredon
              >
              > Thanks for your prompt replies.
              >
              > Examples of the sleeves of my question are:
              >
              > Titian- Sacred and profane - lady seems to
              > have a dress sleeve, a camicia
              > sleeve and then a red sleeve (on one side) and
              > on the other dress sleeve and
              > camicia sleeve above her glove.


              I have a full page image of this in my book on
              Titian luckily, so it's fairly easy to see what's
              going on. The lady appears to be wearing only one
              under-sleeve.

              As I see it, the red under-sleeve is made in two
              parts - a poufy upper and narrow, fitted lower,
              but the red under-sleeve in its entirety goes no
              higher than just below the elbow - the top of it
              appears to be knife pleated and the pleats
              stitched down. The lower end of the top half of
              the red under-sleeve is then pleated into the
              lower, more narrow, end of the sleeve. The
              camicia sleeve appears to be tucked into the red
              under-sleeve, which is what makes it appear
              "poufy".



              > Lotto's Christ taking leave of his mother - the
              > lady (Elizabetta Rota) has
              > dress sleeve, camicia sleeve and then a bit of
              > red sleeve showing under
              > that.


              I think in this case it's a similar situation to
              the Titian example, only the lady's camicia
              sleeves, being so full, have slipped out of their
              confinement in the under-sleeves.

              I hope this helps some. It's only a theory of
              mine so far - I've not tried it yet - but a
              non-attached lower sleeve seems a logical
              solution to the possible problems caused by
              overly large camicia and gown sleeves. Perhaps
              Titian's lady is wearing only one - the right one
              - because that is her dominant hand, and
              therefore the more problematic one? I don't know,
              but it sure is interesting. :-)



              Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
              http://au.movies.yahoo.com
            • Lorralei Burton
              Hi there, Yes bella has an excellent page on this era of dress, I baised mine on a few dresses from this era, have a look at these links for dresses that
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 3, 2005
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                Hi there,

                Yes bella has an excellent page on this era of dress, I baised mine
                on a few dresses from this era, have a look at these links for
                dresses that inspired me.
                Lorenzo Lotto, 1521: Portrait of Elisabetta Rota (detail from Christ
                Taking Leave of His Mother)Appers to have that red undernieth the
                camica

                http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/LICINIOc1515.JPG

                http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/ThreeSisters1520s.jp
                g

                http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/LaSchiavona.jpg

                I also have another picture that you might like to see, i will post
                it on the photos here under my name.
                where as Tiziano Vecellio (Titian), 1514: Sacred and Profane Love
                (detail)you cannot see the camica at the bottom of the sleeve on the
                red side on the other it is white one could say that is the camica
                because of the soft way it falls. You could look at it as a fake
                sleeve, that may be a possibility, as the sleeves arnt held out to
                see their construction, sort of like the fake sleeves tudors had, as
                I said it may be a possibility, I cant document it but the pleating
                is sitting very tight where the white meets the red. Its just an
                Idea, I was toying with when I was looking at that dress.


                No problem.....I love this eras dress

                Agnita Loredan de Rovigo

                --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Bella
                <bella_lucia_da_verona@y...> wrote:
                > --- Jacki/Erik <edenwild@m...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Bella and (hi) Agnita Loredon
                > >
                > > Thanks for your prompt replies.
                > >
                > > Examples of the sleeves of my question are:
                > >
                > > Titian- Sacred and profane - lady seems to
                > > have a dress sleeve, a camicia
                > > sleeve and then a red sleeve (on one side) and
                > > on the other dress sleeve and
                > > camicia sleeve above her glove.
                >
                >
                > I have a full page image of this in my book on
                > Titian luckily, so it's fairly easy to see what's
                > going on. The lady appears to be wearing only one
                > under-sleeve.
                >
                > As I see it, the red under-sleeve is made in two
                > parts - a poufy upper and narrow, fitted lower,
                > but the red under-sleeve in its entirety goes no
                > higher than just below the elbow - the top of it
                > appears to be knife pleated and the pleats
                > stitched down. The lower end of the top half of
                > the red under-sleeve is then pleated into the
                > lower, more narrow, end of the sleeve. The
                > camicia sleeve appears to be tucked into the red
                > under-sleeve, which is what makes it appear
                > "poufy".
                >
                >
                >
                > > Lotto's Christ taking leave of his mother - the
                > > lady (Elizabetta Rota) has
                > > dress sleeve, camicia sleeve and then a bit of
                > > red sleeve showing under
                > > that.
                >
                >
                > I think in this case it's a similar situation to
                > the Titian example, only the lady's camicia
                > sleeves, being so full, have slipped out of their
                > confinement in the under-sleeves.
                >
                > I hope this helps some. It's only a theory of
                > mine so far - I've not tried it yet - but a
                > non-attached lower sleeve seems a logical
                > solution to the possible problems caused by
                > overly large camicia and gown sleeves. Perhaps
                > Titian's lady is wearing only one - the right one
                > - because that is her dominant hand, and
                > therefore the more problematic one? I don't know,
                > but it sure is interesting. :-)
                >
                >
                >
                > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
                > http://au.movies.yahoo.com
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