Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Help with finding a portrait

Expand Messages
  • kitlizzy
    I recently purchased some fabric on a whim not knowing if it was period-ish or not, and was delighted to find that it closely matched one of the documentation
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 4, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      I recently purchased some fabric on a whim not knowing if it was
      period-ish or not, and was delighted to find that it closely matched
      one of the documentation pictures provided with the Period Patterns
      #41 instructions.

      However, I would really like to see the actual portrait this image
      came from, not the least because I'm really not understanding the
      different layers of the dress as shown. I've put a picture of the
      picture in my (Margarete's) folder in the Photos section so you all
      can see what I'm looking for. (I've done a couple of searches through
      the online art museums/portrait galleries and not found it yet.)

      My main confusion is with the tight sleeves that she is wearing from
      the shoulders down - is that part of the dress that is shown
      underneath the gathered up "overdress"? Or are they separate and
      attached to the cap sleeves? Also, how would one gather up the
      overdress as it's shown, and what's going on with the bottom of the
      underdress? :D :D


      Any help would be apprecitated! (especially the source portrait)
      Thank you! :D

      -Margarete.
    • Diana Habra
      ... Margrete, This picture looks like a Victorian re-drawing of Italian Rennaissance. I haven t seen a short overdress like this or short cap sleeves in the
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 4, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        >
        > I recently purchased some fabric on a whim not knowing if it was
        > period-ish or not, and was delighted to find that it closely matched
        > one of the documentation pictures provided with the Period Patterns
        > #41 instructions.
        >
        > However, I would really like to see the actual portrait this image
        > came from, not the least because I'm really not understanding the
        > different layers of the dress as shown.

        Margrete,

        This picture looks like a Victorian re-drawing of Italian Rennaissance. I
        haven't seen a short overdress like this or short cap sleeves in the
        Italian paintings that I have seen. And if a source painting can be
        found, it will most likely look very different or be allegorical. And
        offhand, the style looks like it is trying to depict the 1470's to 1490's.

        If your aim is to just re-create this particular dress because you like
        the style, then have fun with it and layer it however you want.

        If you want to re-create something that was worn in the period, you may
        want to do more research. Ghirlandao and Piero della Francesca are good
        places to start for 1470-1490.

        Also, Francesco del Cossa did some of my favorites from this time period.
        Check these out:

        http://www.abcgallery.com/I/italy/cossa.html

        The paintings from April & March have all kinds of different outfits that
        are pretty and simple to make.

        Hope that helps!

        Diana

        www.RenaissanceFabrics.net
        "Everything for the Costumer"
      • kitlizzy
        Thanks! I also thought the picture looked kind of not historically accurate, but the rest of the documentation that came with the pattern is really pretty
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 5, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks! I also thought the picture looked kind of not historically
          accurate, but the rest of the documentation that came with the
          pattern is really pretty good, so I was getting kind of confused! :D
          Thanks for the links - I'm not locked into that version of the dress
          per say (altough I would still like to see the orginal just 'cause)
          so that should really help.

          -Margarete


          > Margrete,
          >
          > This picture looks like a Victorian re-drawing of Italian
          Rennaissance. I
          > haven't seen a short overdress like this or short cap sleeves in the
          > Italian paintings that I have seen. And if a source painting can be
          > found, it will most likely look very different or be allegorical.
        • Kiara/Chiara Fagni
          ... I m thinking its based on this stytle http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/artgallery1.htm --Kiara
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 5, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            > However, I would really like to see the actual portrait this image
            > came from, not the least because I'm really not understanding the
            > different layers of the dress as shown. I've put a picture of the
            > picture in my (Margarete's) folder in the Photos section so you all
            > can see what I'm looking for. (I've done a couple of searches through
            > the online art museums/portrait galleries and not found it yet.)
            >


            I'm thinking its based on this stytle
            http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/artgallery1.htm

            --Kiara
          • Susan Farmer
            ... I ve seen this *somewhere* The only book that I have here at the house that the pattern lists in the references section is Herald -- and it s not in
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 6, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "kitlizzy"
              <kitliz001@h...> wrote:
              >
              > I recently purchased some fabric on a whim not knowing if it was
              > period-ish or not, and was delighted to find that it closely matched
              > one of the documentation pictures provided with the Period Patterns
              > #41 instructions.
              >
              > However, I would really like to see the actual portrait this image
              > came from, not the least because I'm really not understanding the
              > different layers of the dress as shown. I've put a picture of the
              > picture in my (Margarete's) folder in the Photos section so you all
              > can see what I'm looking for. (I've done a couple of searches through
              > the online art museums/portrait galleries and not found it yet.)

              I've seen this *somewhere* The only book that I have here at the
              house that the pattern lists in the references section is Herald --
              and it's not in there. It's probably in one of the ones I haven't
              looked at lately because I would have snarfed the image of the short
              overdress for sure. (Something I've been looking for -- I've found a
              couple; but not this short.) I want to say it's ladies in a crowd
              scene -- and my brain wants to say Ghirlandaio or Bottecelli.

              Having said that, I do have these similar images. @ of them are from
              Thornton's Italian Interiors, one other is from The art and Ritual of
              Childbirth. I've finally found a *good* copy of the entire Lotto --
              St. Barbara. I'll look at it more on Monday. (The books are at
              school where the good scanner is, and today is a football game. If
              you're from a Big Football Town, you'll understand.)

              <http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/italian_BirthVirgin-thorntonFig84.jpg>
              has several short sleeved gowns

              <http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/italian_MussacchioPl46.JPG>
              another couple of short-sleeved overgowns -- this one is earlier in
              style -- more of the cotehardie type, though.

              <http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/masterStratonice_AntiochusStratoniceDetail-thorntonFig311.jpg>
              more short sleeved gowns

              <http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/lotto_Barbara2.jpg>
              two short-sleeved gowns behind St. Barbara


              the shorter overdresses that I've found are
              <http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/angelico_NamingBaptist.jpg>
              <http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/crivelli_AnnunciationD1.jpg>

              Giotto's overdresses are typically shorter as well, but I'm not quite
              sure what exactly is going on here.
              <http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/giotto_Visitation.jpg>
              <http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/giotto_MarriageVirgin-mary05.jpg>
              <http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/giotto_GoldenGate.jpg>
              <http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/giotto_BirthVirgin-mary01.jpg>


              Jerusha
            • kitlizzy
              Thank you!! :D :D I was out of town this weekend and was quite excited to see this when I got back. :D ... a
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 8, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Thank you!! :D :D I was out of town this weekend and was quite
                excited to see this when I got back. :D


                > I've seen this *somewhere* The only book that I have here at the
                > house that the pattern lists in the references section is Herald --
                > and it's not in there. It's probably in one of the ones I haven't
                > looked at lately because I would have snarfed the image of the short
                > overdress for sure. (Something I've been looking for -- I've found
                a
                > couple; but not this short.) I want to say it's ladies in a crowd
                > scene -- and my brain wants to say Ghirlandaio or Bottecelli.
                >
              • Susan Farmer
                ... *snippage* ... snippage ... ... I found a
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 10, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Farmer"
                  <sfarmer@s...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "kitlizzy"
                  > <kitliz001@h...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I recently purchased some fabric on a whim not knowing if it was
                  > > period-ish or not, and was delighted to find that it closely
                  > > matched one of the documentation pictures provided with the
                  > > Period Patterns #41 instructions.
                  > >

                  *snippage*

                  > > I've put a picture of the picture in my (Margarete's) folder
                  > > in the Photos section so you all can see what I'm looking for.
                  >
                  >
                  > I've seen this *somewhere*

                  snippage

                  >
                  <http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/masterStratonice_AntiochusStratoniceDetail-thorntonFig311.jpg>
                  > more short sleeved gowns
                  >

                  I found a *tiny* color copy of the image in question -- it's from a
                  mural and the above image is the next in the sequence -- marriage of
                  Antiochus and Stratonice. the color pimage is here

                  <http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9035903>

                  And if anybody out there has a subscription to the Online Encyclopedia
                  Britannica and wants to see if that link leads to a large image and
                  them email it to me I'll hang it off my server. I did find a BW copy
                  of the full mural which I'll try and scan today.

                  Jerusha
                • kitlizzy
                  I am amazed you found this. Thank you!!! :D -Margarete ... Encyclopedia ... copy
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 10, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I am amazed you found this. Thank you!!! :D

                    -Margarete

                    > I found a *tiny* color copy of the image in question -- it's from a
                    > mural and the above image is the next in the sequence -- marriage of
                    > Antiochus and Stratonice. the color pimage is here
                    >
                    > <http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9035903>
                    >
                    > And if anybody out there has a subscription to the Online
                    Encyclopedia
                    > Britannica and wants to see if that link leads to a large image and
                    > them email it to me I'll hang it off my server. I did find a BW
                    copy
                    > of the full mural which I'll try and scan today.
                    >
                    > Jerusha
                  • Susan Farmer
                    ... It was Pure Dumb Luck (tm)! I stumbled across the full cassone panel and then googled for Stratonice and there it was! ... I did get it scanned; I ll get
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 10, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "kitlizzy"
                      <kitliz001@h...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I am amazed you found this. Thank you!!! :D

                      It was Pure Dumb Luck (tm)! I stumbled across the full cassone panel
                      and then googled for Stratonice and there it was!

                      > > I found a *tiny* color copy of the image in question -- it's
                      > > from a mural and the above image is the next in the sequence --
                      > > marriage of Antiochus and Stratonice. the color pimage is here
                      > >
                      > > <http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9035903>
                      > >
                      > > And if anybody out there has a subscription to the Online
                      > > Encyclopedia Britannica and wants to see if that link leads
                      > > to a large image and them email it to me I'll hang it off my
                      > > server. I did find a BW copy of the full mural which I'll try
                      > > and scan today.

                      I did get it scanned; I'll get it uploaded later tonight. Watch this
                      space. :-)

                      Jerusha
                    • kitlizzy
                      I free-trial ed the site and uploaded a somewhat larger copy of the picture into my photo album. Thanks again for digging this up! -Margarete ... Encyclopedia
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 10, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I free-trial'ed the site and uploaded a somewhat larger copy of the
                        picture into my photo album. Thanks again for digging this up!

                        -Margarete


                        > I found a *tiny* color copy of the image in question -- it's from a
                        > mural and the above image is the next in the sequence -- marriage of
                        > Antiochus and Stratonice. the color pimage is here
                        >
                        > <http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9035903>
                        >
                        > And if anybody out there has a subscription to the Online
                        Encyclopedia
                        > Britannica and wants to see if that link leads to a large image and
                        > them email it to me I'll hang it off my server. I did find a BW
                        copy
                        > of the full mural which I'll try and scan today.
                        >
                        > Jerusha
                      • Susan Farmer
                        ... How much bigger is the image on their site than what s in the photo album here on yahoo? After experiences with AOh*ll, I m leary of the whole Free Trial
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 10, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "kitlizzy"
                          <kitliz001@h...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I free-trial'ed the site and uploaded a somewhat larger copy of the
                          > picture into my photo album. Thanks again for digging this up!

                          How much bigger is the image on their site than what's in the photo
                          album here on yahoo? After experiences with AOh*ll, I'm leary of the
                          whole Free Trial thing.

                          Jerusha
                        • kitlizzy
                          It s almost exactly the same size on the Brittanica website as it is when you click on the thumbnail to enlarge it in the photo album here - roughly 3 1/2 by
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 10, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            It's almost exactly the same size on the Brittanica website as it is
                            when you click on the thumbnail to enlarge it in the photo album
                            here - roughly 3 1/2" by 3" (yes I have a ruler at my desk :D ).

                            So while bigger, it's still not "big". :D


                            > How much bigger is the image on their site than what's in the photo
                            > album here on yahoo? After experiences with AOh*ll, I'm leary of
                            the
                            > whole Free Trial thing.
                            >
                            > Jerusha
                          • kitlizzy
                            Going back to a thread from a while back here, I just wanted to let the curious know that I located the gallery that the panel is currently residing in - and
                            Message 13 of 13 , Dec 9, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Going back to a thread from a while back here, I just wanted to let
                              the curious know that I located the gallery that the panel is
                              currently residing in - and they sell color prints of both panels. (I
                              was quoted $15 for 8x10's and $30 for 11x14's, other sizes are
                              avalible.)

                              I'm considering ordering the 8x10's because 1.) I'm terribly curious
                              and 2.) I need more stuff on my walls and I have empty picture frames
                              for 8x10's. :D If I do get them I will scan them in and share.

                              The gallery's contact info is below:

                              The Art Collections
                              The Huntington Library, Art Collections, and Botanical Gardens
                              1151 Oxford Road
                              San Marino, CA 91108

                              phone: 626-405 2224
                              fax: 626-405 0634
                              email: artphotos@...


                              > I found a *tiny* color copy of the image in question -- it's from a
                              > mural and the above image is the next in the sequence -- marriage of
                              > Antiochus and Stratonice. the color pimage is here
                              >
                              > <http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9035903>
                              >
                              > And if anybody out there has a subscription to the Online
                              Encyclopedia
                              > Britannica and wants to see if that link leads to a large image and
                              > them email it to me I'll hang it off my server. I did find a BW
                              copy
                              > of the full mural which I'll try and scan today.
                              >
                              > Jerusha
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.