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FW: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: Portrait identification

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  • Christine Taylor
    I would also love to have a picture, thanks! Caitlin ... From: Susan Farmer [mailto:sfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:39 PM To:
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 22, 2004
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      I would also love to have a picture, thanks!

      Caitlin

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Susan Farmer [mailto:sfarmer@...]
      Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:39 PM
      To: Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: Portrait identification


      > > > This is definitely Italian. The artist is Paolo Veronese and the
      > > > date I have for it is 1580.
      >

      > This is usually just referred to as Portrait of a Lady with a Dog, but

      > the date I have for it is circa 1560-70. I have a larger image I can
      > upload to the web if anyone is interested?
    • Bella
      Ok. Here it is.... Enjoy. :-) =====
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 22, 2004
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        Ok. Here it is....

        <http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/Veronese1560-70MuseoThyssen-Bornemisza.jpg>

        Enjoy. :-)

        =====
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        The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice
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      • Kiara
        So looking at this pic and the other one by Moroni in red and orange. Is that a sleeveless overdress over an underdress or over a bodice and matching skirt
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 22, 2004
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          So looking at this pic and the other one by Moroni in red and orange. Is that a sleeveless overdress over an underdress or over a bodice and matching skirt or???

          --Kiara
          Who really like the orange one with its open neckline.


          Bella <bella_lucia_da_verona@...> wrote:
          Ok. Here it is....

          <http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/Veronese1560-70MuseoThyssen-Bornemisza.jpg>

          Enjoy. :-)

          =====
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
          Signora Bella Lucia da Verona

          The Realm of Venus: Ladies Clothing in 16th Century Venice
          http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net
          Italian Showcase of the Year Awards: VIEW THE WINNERS!!
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

          Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
          http://au.movies.yahoo.com


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        • Susan Farmer
          ... I think I missed the URL for the Moroni image ..... Jerusha (who is always looking for new images)
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 23, 2004
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            >
            > So looking at this pic and the other one by Moroni in red and orange. Is that a sleeveless overdress over an underdress or over a bodice and matching skirt or???

            I think I missed the URL for the Moroni image .....

            Jerusha (who is always looking for new images)


            > Bella <bella_lucia_da_verona@...> wrote:
            > Ok. Here it is....
            >
            > <http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/Veronese1560-70MuseoThyssen-Bornemisza.jpg>
            >
            > Enjoy. :-)
            >
            >
          • Susan Farmer
            Never mind. Archives can be a wonderful thing.
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 23, 2004
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              Never mind. Archives can be a wonderful thing.
            • Susan Farmer
              ... Now, to answer your question -- looks like a short sleeved overdress to me -- or a short sleeved vest with an attached skirt Jerusha (who knows very
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 23, 2004
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                >
                > So looking at this pic and the other one by Moroni in red and orange. Is that a sleeveless overdress over an underdress or over a bodice and matching skirt or???

                Now, to answer your question -- looks like a short sleeved overdress to me --
                or a short sleeved "vest with an attached skirt"

                Jerusha (who knows very little terminology)

                BTW, Moroni is at http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/moroni/p-moroni9.htm

                > --Kiara
                > Who really like the orange one with its open neckline.
                >
                >
                > Bella <bella_lucia_da_verona@...> wrote:
                > Ok. Here it is....
                >
                > <http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/Veronese1560-70MuseoThyssen-Bornemisza.jpg>
                >
                >
              • Bella
                ... I very much lean towards the idea of it being a sleeveless overdress over a doublet bodice with matching kirtle, rather than skirt, although I guess they
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 23, 2004
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                  --- Kiara <kiarapanther1@...> wrote:
                  > So looking at this pic and the other one by Moroni in red and orange. Is that a sleeveless
                  > overdress over an underdress or over a bodice and matching skirt or???
                  >
                  > --Kiara
                  > Who really like the orange one with its open neckline.


                  I very much lean towards the idea of it being a sleeveless overdress over a doublet bodice with
                  matching kirtle, rather than skirt, although I guess they could have done as men did and lace the
                  doublet to the lower garment.



                  Bella


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                • Denise Robello
                  I love this picture. There appears to be no significant closures being used to hold the over layer (over doublet) cinched in place. My first thought is to
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 30, 2004
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                    I love this picture.

                    There appears to be no significant closures being used to hold the
                    over layer (over doublet) cinched in place. My first thought is to
                    consider how to make the over doublet and bodice combo behave. You
                    might have to worry about the doublet pulling away from the bodice as
                    soon as you start moving around. Unless you like fussing with your
                    clothes a lot (which I don't). I prefer to put my clothes on and
                    mostly ignore them.

                    I would guess that the over-doublet thing (if it is a stand alone
                    garment) is reinforced and is precisely shaped and fitted to sit in
                    place. And the weight of the skirt and forward slope of the waist-
                    line probably help keep the garment in line.

                    Has anyone made this or something similar?

                    Ascelin



                    --- In Italian_Rennaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Bella
                    <bella_lucia_da_verona@y...> wrote:
                    > --- Kiara <kiarapanther1@y...> wrote:
                    > > So looking at this pic and the other one by Moroni in red and
                    orange. Is that a sleeveless
                    > > overdress over an underdress or over a bodice and matching skirt
                    or???
                    > >
                    > > --Kiara
                    > > Who really like the orange one with its open neckline.
                    >
                    >
                    > I very much lean towards the idea of it being a sleeveless
                    overdress over a doublet bodice with
                    > matching kirtle, rather than skirt, although I guess they could
                    have done as men did and lace the
                    > doublet to the lower garment.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Bella
                    >
                    >
                    > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
                    > http://au.movies.yahoo.com
                  • Eibhlin Buchanan
                    The salmon & orange dress looks to me like.... Bodice all one piece with upper slashed sleeves. The skirt I do not think is attached to the bodice, but I just
                    Message 9 of 9 , Mar 31, 2004
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                      The salmon & orange dress looks to me like....
                      Bodice all one piece with upper slashed sleeves.
                      The skirt I do not think is attached to the bodice, but I just cant
                      tell from the quality of the portrait. But definately the orange
                      underskirt is separate from the overskirt of salmon.
                      I really don't know enough about Italian dress to know. Course
                      thats why I joined this list.
                      Was it common to have a chemise *which is plain to see*, an
                      underdress with slashed sleeves, and an overdress with short sleeves?
                      If that is the case, then I would guess that it is a short sleeved
                      vest over an underdress.
                      Either way.....I love the style and think I will attempt something
                      like it soon.

                      Eibhlin
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