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Milbury needs to pull the trigger

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  • hashpipe10 <sargendorf@yahoo.com>
    I know I ve said this before but something needs to get done soon. All these loses against philly, new jersey, Washington and tonight angainst toronto are all
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 25, 2003
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      I know I've said this before but something needs to get done
      soon. All these loses against philly, new jersey, Washington and
      tonight angainst toronto are all telling problems.
      In years past he has been to hastey and this year hes been too
      hesitant. This team is going no where this year unless he brings in
      a sparkplug because Peca is going to burn out come playoff time and
      the rest of this squad is riding the razors edge every night.
      If yashin is going to play on the fourth line why not bench the
      instead. Let a kid take his spot for a few nights and see how he
      reacts to that. Why play the guy and get no results . Why put him on
      the fourth line. SIT HIM.
      Really, I bet any kid in Bridgeport would play the game with
      more enthusiasm.
      Another thing if the identity of this team is going to a
      workhorse team why keep Yashin or better yet why not try and grab
      Nolan . I dont care what anyone says Nolan would be a great fit for
      this team especially with the direction milbury is taking it. Just
      the thought of having Nolan with Peca and Scatchard screams
      conference finals. I would even say division champs next year.
      Even better yet with Nolan you could give Torres some minutes on
      this team and it would make sense. I wold even say lets see where
      that takes us and maybe then find a suitor for yashin if he fails to
      get his shit together.
      Seriously this team cant do anyworse without yashin so why keep
      him around? Where is his impact on this team? I give him one more
      week and then go from there . Either milbury does what he has to do
      to get yashin help or trade him. Enough is enough already!!!!!!!!!!!
    • billbarrisles <billbarrisles@yahoo.com>
      ... soon. All these loses against philly, new jersey, Washington and tonight angainst toronto are all telling problems. There are problems, no doubt of
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 25, 2003
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        --- In Islanders-SoundTigers@yahoogroups.com, "hashpipe10
        <sargendorf@y...>" <sargendorf@y...> wrote:

        > I know I've said this before but something needs to get done
        soon. All these loses against philly, new jersey, Washington and
        tonight angainst toronto are all telling problems.>>>

        There are problems, no doubt of that, but it's not easy to win
        in Toronto. It was a big rivalry game and the Leafs have a better
        collective offense. And this is the Isles first loss since Nashville
        and that was a while ago. They did not produce the chances and finish
        them to put the Leafs in trouble in their own end and force them to
        play defense.

        > In years past he has been to hastey and this year hes been too
        hesitant. This team is going no where this year unless he brings in
        a sparkplug because Peca is going to burn out come playoff time and
        the rest of this squad is riding the razors edge every night.>>>

        That's about right, they are riding the edge most nights, felt
        like when they got up 1-0 they were ready to surround the wagons and
        hold on. When the disallowed goal came they played like they had a
        goal scored on them and Toronto was more hungry and their finishers
        got it done. Isles needs some five-four wins to do what is necessary
        with this schedule. Snow gave them a chance to win.

        > If yashin is going to play on the fourth line why not bench the
        instead. Let a kid take his spot for a few nights and see how he
        reacts to that. Why play the guy and get no results . Why put him on
        the fourth line. SIT HIM. >>>

        He has not been playing that poorly, his shot is terrible but he
        has been working better. They are going nowhere with Yashin sitting
        because Asham, Isbister and Kvasha cannot score goals to allow it. He
        is not really on a fourth line these days, it's mixed like it always
        seems to be. In the end you either have offensive chemistry or you do
        not. Isles have one line that produces and they got nothing tonight.

        > Really, I bet any kid in Bridgeport would play the game with
        > more enthusiasm.>>>

        Maybe, but will they score here ? So far the answer has
        been no. Have to have some scoring and some offensive chemistry.

        > Another thing if the identity of this team is going to a
        workhorse team why keep Yashin or better yet why not try and grab
        Nolan . I dont care what anyone says Nolan would be a great fit for
        this team especially with the direction milbury is taking it. Just
        the thought of having Nolan with Peca and Scatchard screams
        conference finals. I would even say division champs next year. >>>

        I think your right in that Nolan would be part of what Milbury is
        trying to do, but the Isles need a scorer and someone who is a better
        bargain and they need size. Nolan's contract has a ton of downside
        and he is not playing well and he has age on him. Isles badly need a
        shot and some scoring, but it's not easy to trade and no one is
        running out to take what the Isles have to offer and they are not a
        deep organization.

        > Even better yet with Nolan you could give Torres some minutes on
        this team and it would make sense. I wold even say lets see where
        that takes us and maybe then find a suitor for yashin if he fails to
        get his shit together.>>>

        Isles moving Yashin is not an option, they could put him on
        waivers and he would likely not get claimed because of his
        contract. It's sink or swim with Yashin and they are going to have to
        get him some speed and a shot because there is no going back. I
        thought he has played very hard lately and did well tonight but was
        on ice for goals against. Hamrlik cannot hand the puck to Travis
        Green and they cannot let Reichel, Domi beat them if they want to
        have a chance. They did not play Sundin well on those rushes either.

        And let's call it for what it was, Toronto had the better chances
        and deserved the game based on that alone.

        Snow was not the problem either. He had a big smile on the joke of
        a penalty shot and Sundin did not get a shot, Snow gave them a chance
        to win.

        > Either milbury does what he has to do to get yashin help or trade
        him. Enough is enough already!!!!!!!!!!!>>>

        I think they better get him some help because that's the only
        option, but we have been waiting all year and the Isles just keep
        hanging on and getting points and it never seems as desperate as it
        is. I think at this point the thing about the Isles is that we know
        they can may get into the playoffs this way, but to make a run at the
        cup they need more scoring.

        Bill
      • ISLESzig16@aol.com
        Im in agreement that a trade needs to be made and be made soon. We need a sniper badly and not for Yashin, for the team. Yashin throughout his career has been
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 26, 2003
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          Im in agreement that a trade needs to be made and be made soon. We need a
          sniper badly and not for Yashin, for the team. Yashin throughout his career
          has been known to be lazy and uninspired, basically a wasted talent.
          Unfortunately Milbury bit the big one on that deal cause with his contract we
          are stuck with him. So Yashin needs to make the best of it and so do we but
          in the meantime we need someone to step into the skates he was supposed to be
          wearing and we all know that person is Ziggy. Milbury has to loosen the grip
          on the wallet, dump some contracts like Isbister and Kvasha (because he is
          too tempermental and is Yashin Jr) Pick a goaltender and make a move for
          Ziggy. But from his tone is his interview on fox, It was all too familiar,
          Milbury isnt getting any players unless he finds them on the discount rack,
          so dont hold your breath. His main intention is to bolster the Defense, and
          truthfully after last night's game in Toronto I could see his point.
          Boston's strategy against the Islanders in Sunday's game (and this was said
          publicly) was to pressure the Islanders shakey Defense.............and it
          worked. In Toronto's game I would fault the Isles D for 4-5 of the 5 goals.
          It was silly the way they just fell apart, leaving Snow helpless and
          floundering in net. (It almost reminded me of the bad old days) The Isles D
          really needs to be called out on the carpet for that game because it was 3rd
          rate at best. I dont know, I dont see much materializing over the next couple
          of weeks with this team. I hate to say I think we are back to a long summer.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • billbarrisles <billbarrisles@yahoo.com>
          ... need a sniper badly and not for Yashin, for the team. Yashin throughout his career has been known to be lazy and uninspired, basically a wasted talent.
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 27, 2003
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            --- In Islanders-SoundTigers@yahoogroups.com, ISLESzig16@a... wrote:

            > Im in agreement that a trade needs to be made and be made soon. We
            need a sniper badly and not for Yashin, for the team. Yashin
            throughout his career has been known to be lazy and uninspired,
            basically a wasted talent.>>>

            Hard to argue with was/is a team problem with Ottawa or if Yashin
            was a wasted talent up there but his scoring numbers do not lie. When
            Ottawa actually makes a significant playoff run we can say Yashin was
            part of the problem, until that point we do not know and the Isles
            did finish ahead of Ottawa last season. When the Leafs got their legs
            back against the Sens in the playoffs, the Leafs were the better team
            just like when Yahsin was there.

            > Unfortunately Milbury bit the big one on that deal cause with his
            contract we are stuck with him.<<<

            I'm glad Yashin is here, now they have to find a way to make it
            work. I would not take back the trade for anything, maybe the
            long-term contract, but not the trade. I see the plays he makes and
            see the chemistry he has with a young player like Weinhandl and know
            when a good talent with speed and skills Yashin will be fine.

            << So Yashin needs to make the best of it and so do we but in the
            meantime we need someone to step into the skates he was supposed to
            be wearing and we all know that person is Ziggy. Milbury has to
            loosen the grip on the wallet, dump some contracts like Isbister and
            Kvasha (because he is too tempermental and is Yashin Jr) Pick a
            goaltender and make a move for Ziggy.>>>

            It's not that easy. What happens in a year when his contract runs
            out and the Isles have to resign him or risk losing him again. His
            agent never has been reasonable and we know the fat-cat teams with
            one final summer to stock up before a strike are going to make a big
            offer to him. If Bure's knees force the Rangers not to pick up his
            option that same summer, the Rangers will outbid the Isles and Ziggy
            will be in Manhattan, or the Isles throw a Yashin-like offer to
            Palffy and hope for the best. I would love to him back but I remember
            how tough it was when he left and we almost lost him to the Rangers
            once, I do not want to go back to that senario again and I think that
            is one thing that also should make Milbury back away too.

            << But from his tone is his interview on fox, It was all too
            familiar, Milbury isnt getting any players unless he finds them on
            the discount rack, so dont hold your breath. His main intention is to
            bolster the Defense, and truthfully after last night's game in
            Toronto I could see his point.>>

            And in truth he does not have what he used to have to offer in
            deals unless it's DiPietro and Torres because that is what teams want
            from the Isles. And as much as they need help for Yashin they almost
            as badly need a defender, fixing both in trades will be very tough
            because there is just not much left to move.

            > Boston's strategy against the Islanders in Sunday's game (and this
            was said publicly) was to pressure the Islanders shakey
            defense.............and it
            worked. In Toronto's game I would fault the Isles D for 4-5 of the 5
            goals.>>>>

            > It was silly the way they just fell apart, leaving Snow helpless
            and floundering in net. (It almost reminded me of the bad old days)
            The Isles D really needs to be called out on the carpet for that game
            because it was 3rd rate at best. I dont know, I dont see much
            materializing over the next couple of weeks with this team. I hate to
            say I think we are back to a long summer.>>>

            Completely agree. But let's call it what it was the first loss
            since Nashville. It could be one game or the start of something bad,
            with this schedule now it's going to be murder to make the playoffs
            and unless something incredible happens playoffs likely go one round
            and we all know it.

            Bill
          • ISLESzig16@aol.com
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 27, 2003
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              << I'm glad Yashin is here, now they have to find a way to make it
              work. I would not take back the trade for anything, maybe the
              long-term contract, but not the trade. I see the plays he makes and
              see the chemistry he has with a young player like Weinhandl and know
              when a good talent with speed and skills Yashin will be fine. >>

              I must respectfully disagree. Milbury was tanked on this deal. For what was
              paid to Yashin for his barely contributory what is it 14 goals this year, is
              a rediculous waste of money. We could have had Palffy and Iginla for what we
              paid Yashin. Yashin has 46 goals in almost 2 seasons. Parrish has 51 goals
              over two seasons and he was a hell of alot cheaper. Sure Yashin shows some
              flash here and there, but what does he do with it.........SQUAT! He is
              uninspired, stands around like he could care less, has no passion in his
              game, has said he was more comfortable with Jacques Martin's system, cant set
              up a power play and he is being paid 90 million dollars. FOR WHAT??????? He
              is supposed to be leading this team....but not in poor play. I'm sorry but
              what Yashin seemed to promise to deliver, has turned out rather
              disappointing. He plays a very "ME" type game and that doesnt just fit in
              round here. And if I hear one more time, we need to get someone to play with
              Yashin Im gonna puke. Yashin needs to get his game face on and deliver what
              he is being paid for. There is plenty of talent on this team that should be
              good enough for him to do SOMETHING with. But he already got his deal and his
              motivation is gone, cause no matter how much he sucks, he still gets his
              paycheck. I wish I could show up at work, do a bad half assed uninspired job,
              and tell my boss I need a better coworker to improve my performance. The only
              check I would get then is a cross check out the door. Sorry Bill but Yashin
              IS NOT living up to his end of the deal.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • hashpipe10 <sargendorf@yahoo.com>
              I think my opinion of Yashin lies in between. I think he needs to learn to fight for respect out there instead of expecting everyone to back off him. I think
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 27, 2003
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                I think my opinion of Yashin lies in between. I think he needs to
                learn to fight for respect out there instead of expecting everyone
                to back off him. I think the same can be said for Isbister and
                Kvasha. All three have talent but they need to fight for space
                themselves. If it means giving opposing players a smelly glove in
                the mush or dropping the gloves and losing a fight or two then so be
                it . In this league you need to fight for yourself sometimes and the
                isles cant expect cairns and weimer to do all the work. I think to
                many teams think they can take a run at our guys and not have to
                answer for it. When Brown ran Bates last sunday someone should have
                challenged him on the spot as opposed to waiting another period. If
                you look at any team in contention if anyone takes a run at one of
                their guys the opposing player pays for it on ther spot.
                I also think if yashin gets into s few scrabs the refs might call
                more penalties when somebody hooks him or decides to hang off his
                back but thats just me.

                --- In Islanders-SoundTigers@yahoogroups.com, ISLESzig16@a... wrote:
                > << I'm glad Yashin is here, now they have to find a way to make
                it
                > work. I would not take back the trade for anything, maybe the
                > long-term contract, but not the trade. I see the plays he makes
                and
                > see the chemistry he has with a young player like Weinhandl and
                know
                > when a good talent with speed and skills Yashin will be fine. >>
                >
                > I must respectfully disagree. Milbury was tanked on this deal. For
                what was
                > paid to Yashin for his barely contributory what is it 14 goals
                this year, is
                > a rediculous waste of money. We could have had Palffy and Iginla
                for what we
                > paid Yashin. Yashin has 46 goals in almost 2 seasons. Parrish has
                51 goals
                > over two seasons and he was a hell of alot cheaper. Sure Yashin
                shows some
                > flash here and there, but what does he do with it.........SQUAT!
                He is
                > uninspired, stands around like he could care less, has no passion
                in his
                > game, has said he was more comfortable with Jacques Martin's
                system, cant set
                > up a power play and he is being paid 90 million dollars. FOR
                WHAT??????? He
                > is supposed to be leading this team....but not in poor play. I'm
                sorry but
                > what Yashin seemed to promise to deliver, has turned out rather
                > disappointing. He plays a very "ME" type game and that doesnt just
                fit in
                > round here. And if I hear one more time, we need to get someone to
                play with
                > Yashin Im gonna puke. Yashin needs to get his game face on and
                deliver what
                > he is being paid for. There is plenty of talent on this team that
                should be
                > good enough for him to do SOMETHING with. But he already got his
                deal and his
                > motivation is gone, cause no matter how much he sucks, he still
                gets his
                > paycheck. I wish I could show up at work, do a bad half assed
                uninspired job,
                > and tell my boss I need a better coworker to improve my
                performance. The only
                > check I would get then is a cross check out the door. Sorry Bill
                but Yashin
                > IS NOT living up to his end of the deal.
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • billbarrisles <billbarrisles@yahoo.com>
                ... work. I would not take back the trade for anything, maybe the long-term contract, but not the trade. I see the plays he makes and see the chemistry he has
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 28, 2003
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                  > I'm glad Yashin is here, now they have to find a way to make it
                  work. I would not take back the trade for anything, maybe the
                  long-term contract, but not the trade. I see the plays he makes and
                  see the chemistry he has with a young player like Weinhandl and know
                  when a good talent with speed, skills and experience is paired with
                  him Yashin will be fine.>

                  Sorry, I re-edited what I was trying to say.

                  --- In Islanders-SoundTigers@yahoogroups.com, ISLESzig16@a... wrote:

                  > I must respectfully disagree. Milbury was tanked on this deal. For
                  what was paid to Yashin for his barely contributory what is it 14
                  goals this year, is a rediculous waste of money.>>>

                  You could be right, I sure hope not. Chara is a great defender,
                  Spezza may well become an NHL star, for now I still like the Isles end
                  of this because the Isles did get to the playoffs last year and that
                  was part of it.

                  > We could have had Palffy and Iginla for what we paid Yashin. Yashin
                  has 46 goals in almost 2 seasons. Parrish has 51 goals over two
                  seasons and he was a hell of alot cheaper. Sure Yashin shows some
                  flash here and there, but what does he do with it.........SQUAT! He
                  is uninspired, stands around like he could care less, has no passion
                  in his game, has said he was more comfortable with Jacques Martin's
                  system, cant set up a power play and he is being paid 90 million
                  dollars. FOR WHAT???????>>>

                  There was no trade for Palffy and Iginla, but I understand what your
                  saying, we should have an impact player who should make these kids
                  better and we hardly have that for money that those players are
                  getting. I think playing with marginal talent on his wings for two
                  season has really hurt his game and his shot looked poor even last
                  season for my standard of what I expect. There are no excuses for
                  Yashin not to work hard and only Yashin knows if he is trying his best
                  at all times, but the players around him for two seasons on his wings
                  are not the right fit and when I see Lapointe getting in his way
                  behind the net or Kvasha not set up him or he sets them up and you can
                  see they how no clue what to do to finish or make a return pass for a
                  slam-dunk open net, it's frustrating and must be for him.

                  I see the give and goes with Weinhandl and how he sets him up and
                  imagine what someone who can feed Yashin like that would do for his game.

                  As to Jacques Martin's system vs Peter Laviolette's system, I know
                  he said it, I do not think he should have, but the Isles system is to
                  stand around on the perimeter and take low pct shots on powerplays
                  with him at bad angles as opposed to in the middle of the ice. Gritty
                  games and goals are not Yashin's game. They needed someone with
                  Czerkawski's open-ice skills to replace him, they still do not have it
                  and it's a miracle the Isles are in contention with Jason Blake and
                  Scatchard carrying this offense. Even Miller made Yashin better
                  because he knew how to get him the puck.

                  < He is supposed to be leading this team....but not in poor play. I'm
                  sorry but what Yashin seemed to promise to deliver, has turned out
                  rather disappointing. He plays a very "ME" type game and that doesnt
                  just fit in round here. >>>

                  I do not see a ME type of game from him, he seems like he wants to
                  make the extra pass at all times as opposed to unloading some deadly
                  slapshots. I kind of think he goes out of his way to not play a
                  ME-type of game because he is worried about fitting in and making it
                  work.

                  << And if I hear one more time, we need to get someone to play with
                  Yashin Im gonna puke. Yashin needs to get his game face on and deliver
                  what he is being paid for. There is plenty of talent on this team that
                  should be good enough for him to do SOMETHING with.>>>>

                  Sorry, I guess I wrote it (above) but from media people to fans to
                  everyone in hockey is saying the same thing. They are not giving him
                  any free pass, nor will I, but it is true IMHO. Tony Amonte is having
                  the same kind of season in Phoenix because he does not have a center
                  and they are not going to the playoffs.

                  Since he was placed on the fourth line I have noticed him working
                  harder at both ends but the fact he had to go there at all says the
                  staff is not happy with his effort and that is pretty significant.

                  I do not think there is enough talent here for him to do something
                  with because he has had a chance with everyone from Asham to
                  Weinhandl. I think the collective talent is a level below and it is
                  changing his game into something he cannot play and each day he does
                  not have a skilled winger is another day he forgets what he was in
                  Ottawa. Confidence is huge with every single hockey player and team
                  and his has to be at rock bottom.

                  How many pretty Islander goales off one-timers or a pass to a
                  slam-dunk empty nets we seen this year from the team ? It's something
                  I keep track of and I count less than ten goals like that all season.
                  It does not give Yashin any kind of pass but for me it screams the
                  creative offensive talent to set up those kind of plays is absent from
                  this roster. The grit has been great but pretty goals are not what
                  this roster is about and that means it's lacking.

                  > But he already got his deal and his motivation is gone, cause no
                  matter how much he sucks, he still gets his paycheck. I wish I could
                  show up at work, do a bad half assed uninspired job, and tell my boss
                  I need a better coworker to improve my performance. The only check I
                  would get then is a cross check out the door. Sorry Bill but Yashin
                  IS NOT living up to his end of the deal.>>>

                  I hear you, hard to disagree with real life vs the
                  hockey world. There is an easy answer if it continues and that's put
                  him on waivers, one rich team will grab him and make him fit their
                  roster and the Isles can start again and throw the money at players
                  this summer instead. But to even consider that would admit a huge
                  mistake and likely land him in Manhattan with Bure and Kovalev setting
                  him up.

                  Big difference between that and Asham, Kvasha, Parrish and Bates. I
                  kind of wish the Isles would put him on wing (which they did last
                  night) with Peca, the best veteran leader they have and let him set
                  him up.

                  Bill
                • billbarrisles <billbarrisles@yahoo.com>
                  ... learn to fight for respect out there instead of expecting everyone to back off him. I think the same can be said for Isbister and Kvasha. All three have
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 28, 2003
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                    --- In Islanders-SoundTigers@yahoogroups.com, "hashpipe10
                    <sargendorf@y...>" <sargendorf@y...> wrote:

                    > I think my opinion of Yashin lies in between. I think he needs to
                    learn to fight for respect out there instead of expecting everyone
                    to back off him. I think the same can be said for Isbister and
                    Kvasha. All three have talent but they need to fight for space
                    themselves. If it means giving opposing players a smelly glove in
                    the mush or dropping the gloves and losing a fight or two then so be
                    it. In this league you need to fight for yourself sometimes and the
                    isles cant expect cairns and weimer to do all the work.>>>

                    I don't know. Asham does do this and does it very well
                    for his age. Kvasha and Yashin are not that kind of player and neither
                    is Kovalev or Ziggy or dozens of players. I hate going back to old
                    examples from different times but this is like asking Bossy to do this
                    on a team where Nystrom, Lane, Gillies ect would never allow it.

                    Each team has a support system of players, some players roles are to
                    stick up for their skilled teammates and even up a big/cheap hit. You
                    hit Brian Leetch and Barnaby, Purinton, McCarthy, Petrovicky, and a
                    few others will bury you. Leetch does not have to fight his battles,
                    just like Kovalev, Messier and others do not have to fight theirs.

                    Isles clearly are not this deep in that dept but that is the way it
                    has to be here also with the support guys doing the payback/dirty work.

                    Problem here is the Isles are so small with Bates, Peca, Lapointe,
                    Blake that they just do not match up well and teams will target them
                    for some big hits against them. They have a ton of heart and never
                    back down to their credit, but these guys are not fighters and neither
                    is Yashin, Kvasha.

                    And to make things worse with the lack of a first line and injuries
                    the Isles almost have to try and make four lines that can score
                    because they need that too.

                    > I think to many teams think they can take a run at our guys and not
                    have to answer for it. When Brown ran Bates last sunday someone should
                    have challenged him on the spot as opposed to waiting another period.
                    If you look at any team in contention if anyone takes a run at one of
                    their guys the opposing player pays for it on ther spot.>>>

                    Sometimes, but they also do it the right way and stay out of the box
                    or take their man with them. Isles take big hits and retaliate
                    foolishly and get shorthanded, and they do not payback anyone with the
                    kind of fight where the opposing team is going to be afraid to take
                    liberties.

                    > I also think if yashin gets into s few scrabs the refs might call
                    more penalties when somebody hooks him or decides to hang off his
                    back but thats just me.>>>

                    Maybe. But this is not Yashin's game. If he got hurt playing that
                    way everyone would wonder why he does not let his teammantes stick up
                    for him more so sometimes you cannot win.

                    Bill
                  • Steve Haweeli
                    I watch Yashin every shift. He s been mucking all year and has had some bad luck let alone bad wingers. His defensive play can be suspect, but lately has been
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 28, 2003
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                      I watch Yashin every shift. He's been mucking all
                      year and has had some bad luck let alone bad wingers.
                      His defensive play can be suspect, but lately has been
                      better. Of late, he's also become more aggressive.
                      He is a heckuva hockey player and gets shadowed and
                      harassed more than any other Islander, which may open
                      up other opportunities for the other lines as well as
                      the aforementioned wingers WHO CAN'T FINISH. He is a
                      horse - and a horse I still like on my team. Spezza
                      who? Chara, I miss. Muckalt? (Puh-lease.) Stupid
                      contract, yes. He's a professional.


                      =====
                      Steve

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                    • ISLESzig16@aol.com
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 28, 2003
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                        <<How many pretty Islander goales off one-timers or a pass to a
                        slam-dunk empty nets we seen this year from the team ? It's something
                        I keep track of and I count less than ten goals like that all season.
                        It does not give Yashin any kind of pass but for me it screams the
                        creative offensive talent to set up those kind of plays is absent from
                        this roster. The grit has been great but pretty goals are not what
                        this roster is about and that means it's lacking>>

                        Whatever happened to individual effort, self motivation, throw the puck at
                        the net, try, etc? Why do goals have to be pretty, so long as it goes in the
                        net who cares. Yashin is a professional Hockey Player, not a professional
                        "score a pretty goal and only be able to play with the elite" player. Maybe
                        Im being tough on him, but I expect more from him for the salary level he is
                        at. I dont care what kind of game he likes to play, Hockey is an unscripted
                        sport, and you gotta be ready to play and play hard no matter how the puck is
                        flying on the ice, pretty or ugly, its the same game with the same objective.
                        The excuses being made for his lackluster play are exactly that.....excuses.

                        <<They needed someone with Czerkawski's open-ice skills to replace him>>

                        You know Bill, that just hurt my eyes reading that. You threw that in to
                        hurt me didnt ya? I honestly winced in pain at the memory of Czerkawski. But
                        you know I have hated him for years. His skills are in the minors.

                        << I do not see a ME type of game from him, he seems like he wants to
                        make the extra pass at all times as opposed to unloading some deadly
                        slapshots. I kind of think he goes out of his way to not play a
                        ME-type of game because he is worried about fitting in and making it
                        work. >>

                        C'mon now, the fact that we are conversing about him needing special little
                        players proves the point he is a me player. How can we make "ME" better.
                        When it should be what can he do to make the team better, how can his skills
                        be applied to the improvement of the overall team, what role can he create
                        for himself, can he be a leader to the younger ones? Great players, and I
                        mean truly great players, it never mattered who they played with. Look at
                        Palffy, it doesnt matter who he plays with, he makes it work. Brett Hull, who
                        I personally dont care for but cant deny his ability is another example.
                        Thats what Yashin was "supposed" to be. I have no stomach for Primadonnas in
                        this league. If Yashin needs to rely on other players talents to perform,
                        then where does his skill really lie? Is he looking for a Derek King/Pierre
                        Turgeon relationship? King was a marginal player at best, but when he teamed
                        up with Pierre he was great, and when Pierre was gone, so was King's magical
                        skills. Turgeon went bad because of injury, he was never the same after that,
                        but what was Kings excuse? Yashinitis?

                        <<I do not think there is enough talent here for him to do something
                        with because he has had a chance with everyone from Asham to
                        Weinhandl. I think the collective talent is a level below and it is
                        changing his game into something he cannot play and each day he does
                        not have a skilled winger is another day he forgets what he was in
                        Ottawa. Confidence is huge with every single hockey player and team
                        and his has to be at rock bottom. >>

                        That is a sad and shameful statement. Let's be honest here, the Isles have
                        not gotten picture perfect wins nor have they sparkled in the lime light.
                        They are a hard working team, and with or without Yashin this year wouldnt
                        have made any difference, theyd be in the same situation right now if 79
                        decided to stay home this season. I think you are placing the talent and
                        professionalism on the wrong side of the scale. For what has already gone
                        down this season remove Peca from the equation...that would be an impact,
                        remove Blake or Scathard from the line up, that too would make a huge
                        difference. Remove Yashin and we wouldnt even have noticed. Your defending
                        the undeserving. I would have to stand by the rest of the team on that one.

                        I guess for now we can agree to disagree, but Yashin is at the root of his
                        own dilemma. Hes not happy here, even though its up to him to change that, I
                        dont think he will.


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                      • billbarrisles <billbarrisles@yahoo.com>
                        Message 11 of 12 , Feb 28, 2003
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                          <How many pretty Islander goales off one-timers or a pass to a
                          slam-dunk empty nets we seen this year from the team ? It's something
                          I keep track of and I count less than ten goals like that all season.
                          It does not give Yashin any kind of pass but for me it screams the
                          creative offensive talent to set up those kind of plays is absent from
                          this roster. The grit has been great but pretty goals are not what
                          this roster is about and that means it's lacking >>

                          --- In Islanders-SoundTigers@yahoogroups.com, ISLESzig16@a... wrote:

                          > Whatever happened to individual effort, self motivation, throw the
                          puck at the net, try, etc? Why do goals have to be pretty, so long as
                          it goes in the net who cares. >>>

                          There is plenty of team effort here, no question about that and
                          unfortunately there is only throw it at the net, try.. ect and it's
                          taken the Isles into a playoff spot to this point. I guess what I'm
                          saying is to win a title, to do what Yashin is really here for, you
                          need some creative offense, some skilled open-ice plays for goals,
                          one timers. Right now as a group our team is lacking this big-time
                          along with a powerplay that makes teams pay.

                          < Yashin is a professional Hockey Player, not a professional
                          "score a pretty goal and only be able to play with the elite" player.
                          Maybe Im being tough on him, but I expect more from him for the
                          salary level he is at.>>>

                          No, I think we all expect him to do more, myself included, and for
                          a good month he was awol on the ice and doing things he must do and
                          that's why the staff had enough. I cannot tell if it's a combo of the
                          strategy, himself, the talent around him or what other teams are
                          trying on him to shut him down. There is no doubt other teams plan
                          for Yashin to show up and work and to keep him off the puck.

                          < I dont care what kind of game he likes to play, Hockey is an
                          unscripted sport, and you gotta be ready to play and play hard no
                          matter how the puck is flying on the ice, pretty or ugly, its the
                          same game with the same objective.>>>

                          I really do not know what game he likes or prefers to play and it
                          does not matter what he wants. What he does do well, he must bring to
                          each game.

                          > The excuses being made for his lackluster play are exactly
                          that.....excuses.>>>

                          True, but there is a diffrence between lackluster play and not
                          scoring. Sometimes he does work very hard and gets nothing. Has he
                          worked hard enough nights, IMHO.........NO.

                          That said he is the Islanders leader in points.

                          ***Re Czerkawski:**
                          > You know Bill, that just hurt my eyes reading that. You threw that
                          in to hurt me didnt ya?>>>

                          No way, never would do that Dawn. I picked Czerkawski because he
                          was the only open ice player from last year who could move to the
                          middle and shoot and make a play on the fly, he dug his own grave
                          here because he did not work hard enough either and now has done the
                          same in Montreal. In the end Czerkawski did not fit with Yashin at
                          all. Miller did not fit that kind of player here either but he is a
                          solid playmaker for Jagr.

                          > I honestly winced in pain at the memory of Czerkawski. But
                          you know I have hated him for years. His skills are in the minors.>>

                          Shocking how brutal he has been, even with his coach from the
                          minors getting the job with the Habs.

                          > C'mon now, the fact that we are conversing about him needing
                          special little players proves the point he is a me player. How can we
                          make "ME" better.>>

                          It's never been an issue with Yashin and it better never become one
                          from him in public. There has to be a happy medium between Ziggy,
                          Iginla and any star we can pencil in with Yashin and someone who can
                          get him the puck on the move a little better and maybe force the
                          oppositon to concentrate on someone else.

                          I like Asham, I like Kvasha and I know they are doing their best,
                          but these are not first-line top talents and we never know when their
                          next goals are coming. Weinhandl has looked the best with him and
                          when both are working they get better quality chances just because
                          there is a higher skill level. Or at least that's what I see. Maybe
                          I'm dead wrong.

                          To say he is a me-only player becuase he does not have the right
                          fit is to put Webb and Godard with Peca and wonder why Peca has no
                          points. Peca would need some help too and that would not make him a
                          me-player. That's an extreme example but kind of what I'm driving at
                          because Asham was supposed to be a fourth liner here and was in the
                          minors most of last year and is not some top draft-pick prospect who
                          is coming of age. Kvasha's past here speaks for himself.

                          > When it should be what can he do to make the team better, how can
                          his skills be applied to the improvement of the overall team, what
                          role can he create for himself, can he be a leader to the younger
                          ones? Great players, and I mean truly great players, it never
                          mattered who they played with. Look at Palffy, it doesnt matter who
                          he plays with, he makes it work.>>>

                          He is what he is, unless he plays the game he played in Ottawa he
                          will never be that player again and the idea for trading for him is
                          gone for a team where they need forty goals and ninety points for
                          this to work and some clutch play. I have no idea what kind of
                          leadership role he takes here but the vets on this team will demand
                          leadership from him and for him to set a good example. Ziggy made it
                          work here too, he just had no help here either to make them win all
                          those years, but he worked like a winner.

                          > Brett Hull, who I personally dont care for but cant deny his
                          ability is another example. Thats what Yashin was "supposed" to be. I
                          have no stomach for Primadonnas in this league. If Yashin needs to
                          rely on other players talents to perform, then where does his skill
                          really lie? >>>

                          I guess my question is where was Hull at this age in his career,
                          was he an on-ice leader with the Blues or someone who just could not
                          get them a title and did not have enough help. I'm sure if Yashin was
                          in Detroit he would fly under the radar and get his goals and points
                          and that would be it. It's a lot different here. Would Brett Hull in
                          his prime have problems here with Asham and Kvasha as his winger, I
                          think so, but who knows ?

                          < Is he looking for a Derek King/Pierre Turgeon relationship? King
                          was a marginal player at best, but when he teamed up with Pierre he
                          was great, and when Pierre was gone, so was King's magical skills.
                          Turgeon went bad because of injury, he was never the same after that,
                          but what was Kings excuse? Yashinitis?>>>

                          Maybe, without all the Senators around him that made life easier.

                          But right now I do not think he is at that point with the Isles, but
                          it's coming unless Yashin and the players around him do some serious
                          maturing and play big-time hockey as top-line players or more talent
                          comes in a trade.

                          > That is a sad and shameful statement. Let's be honest here, the
                          Isles have not gotten picture perfect wins nor have they sparkled in
                          the lime light.>>>

                          You hear it all the time from players, goals give them some
                          confidence and they play better from the vets to the kids. Yashin has
                          nothing to build on right now. He has to learn the game over with the
                          Isles and it's been a tough struggle and it was last year too on many
                          nights also.

                          > They are a hard working team, and with or without Yashin this year
                          wouldnt have made any difference, theyd be in the same situation
                          right now if 79 decided to stay home this season.>>>

                          Sorry, but I gotta disagree on that. He leads the team in points
                          and last I looked would have led several teams in scoring, but that
                          was a while ago.

                          > I think you are placing the talent and professionalism on the wrong
                          side of the scale. For what has already gone down this season remove
                          Peca from the equation...that would be an impact, remove Blake or
                          Scathard from the line up, that too would make a huge difference.
                          Remove Yashin and we wouldnt even have noticed. >>>

                          As bad as he has been, we would have noticed. Although when the
                          Isles won on the west coast no one cared if Yashin moved back to a
                          top line. Let's put it this way, if he is not professional he will
                          not get away with it here and we'll know by how he is used. I'll
                          trust Laviolette on this because he is no soft-touch and this is not
                          the Rangers lockeroom where the coach goes before the
                          star player. And you can bet Wang is on Milbury to push him because
                          he has to pay him.

                          > I guess for now we can agree to disagree, but Yashin is at the root
                          of his own dilemma. Hes not happy here, even though its up to him to
                          change that, I dont think he will.>>>

                          We only agree to disagree a little. You could be right in the end
                          but Yashin is a big boy and will have to grow up a little too and
                          make it work. Will he or won't he ? I do not know.

                          I really think in eleven days he will get his help and all excuses
                          are gone because Milbury is not going to wait for the Rangers to take
                          his playoff spot and someone like Torres or Mapletoft will pay that
                          price.

                          And as safe as MM seems, if the fans turn on Wang, all bets could
                          be off. He fired his football staff, so he can fire his hockey staff
                          and will lose MM if he thinks his judgement on Yashin was the
                          problem.

                          Bill
                        • ISLESzig16@aol.com
                          Message 12 of 12 , Mar 1, 2003
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                            <<And as safe as MM seems, if the fans turn on Wang, all bets could
                            be off. He fired his football staff, so he can fire his hockey staff
                            and will lose MM if he thinks his judgement on Yashin was the
                            problem. >>

                            Ohhhh, one can only hope!!!! But your right Yashin needs to grow up and
                            soon.


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