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Re: Another new subject

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  • sevensisters25
    Jim, thank you so much for the reply. I guess I should have looked through the messages before asking. It looks like we ll be removing some teak and seeing
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 1, 2007
      Jim, thank you so much for the reply. I guess I should have looked
      through the messages before asking. It looks like we'll be removing
      some teak and seeing what's what. We don't have leaks in the vee-
      berth but I suppose it would be prudent to fix it all, not just the
      areas where the leaks are. I have run my hand up into the joint areas
      (for lack of a better term) and can feel through-bolts and nuts.
      Hopefully, we have those all the way around, and not the self-tapping
      screws.

      For the record, we love this boat, and can't imagine owning another
      even after living aboard her for almost four years. We spent the
      better part of three years looking for a liveaboard cruiser before
      finding Evening Star on the hard, in the process of a refit, and
      bought her without sailing her first. We stopped the refit as we
      couldn't afford what the owner would be asking after it was done so
      we are finishing it ourselves as we go. My husband was a 27-year
      tugboat captain (as well as a lifelong sailor) and the IF41's round
      belly reminded him of his tug. We knew by looking at her that she
      would not be a "performance racer" but a big, ol' heavy, comfortable
      gal with thick glass and a keel that can take almost anything. We
      love how she sails -- more like a larger ship than other production
      sailboats of the same size. The interior layout is perfect for us.
      Not many sailboats have a dance floor!

      The one thing we learned in all of our boat-search is that every boat
      is a compromise, as perfection is subjective. So, while the hull-to-
      deck joint issue is a big one that we'd rather not have to do and are
      not looking forward to, it doesn't diminish our love and devotion to
      our "big ol' gal."

      We are very much looking forward to learning much more from all of
      you and hopefully will be able to contribute as well. Thanks again.

      Annie
      s/v Evening Star

      --- In IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com, sourdoughs@... wrote:
      >
      > Hi Annie,
      >
      > If you look on our web site under messages from #243 to 253 or so
      you will
      > find a lot of discussion on the leak problem in the hull to deck
      seam. I
      > think there are some pictures in there somewhere.
      >
      > Anyway as I remember everybody said ti was a lot of work to fix
      the problem.
      >
      > Good luck
      >
      > Jim S/V Interlude
      > Homer Alaska
      >
    • Jack V J
      hi steve,,would love to get some details on your taco aluminum rail installation. i am considering replacing my teak with aluminum and plan to move the
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 1, 2007
        hi steve,,would love to get some details on your taco aluminum rail installation. i am considering replacing my teak with aluminum and plan to move the stantions outboard  slightly,,,,,,,,,,,they can be real toe stoppers,,,,,,,dont know why they didnt originally incorporate the bases into the upturn,,,, possibly incorporating part of the base into the caprail. originally thought about doing this with the teak cap rail but then thought aluminum cap such as the teco or other ,,even may fab up my own.  sure would be nice to have more locations to cleat off to or just lash something off to.   happy new year everyone.       jack

        Steven Ellsworth <stevenellsworth@...> wrote:
        Hi Dick:

        Steve from Destiny here.

        Hull to deck joint is definately a potential source for the water. We leaked badly there as well. Under the teak caprail, there is about a 1/4" gap that was bedded with pickup truck roll caulking commonly used on camper shells. Mine desintigrated and left the gap wide open. I didn't find this until I removed the teak to replace with TACO aluminum rail and thru bolted the entire joint.

        Had the same issues with the genset.

        It took me 1 year of cruising and 6 months full time on the hard to completely solve all the issues with the boat.

        PS:

        I have replaced all of the above including the windows and still leak in area you describe. I am thinking it might be the screws that hold the hatch cover over the bed. I have re bedded the mast step on mizzen and that is solid.

        Until you stop the leaks and hole sin the teak caprail, there is little to do but drain the affected areas.

        By now, you probably wish you had knbown all of this before your purchase!

        Me too, but now we are really happy with Destiny. Just don't give up too soon or sell too early after the re commissioning!

        Dick Pluta <dick8139@earthlink. net> wrote:
        The learning curve is steep.  After only 3 days on the boat I have found enough work to keep me busy for the rest of my life.  I have already refurbished three houses, one of them 400 years old, and this is going to be the toughest.  After getting a lengthy lesson from the electrician who is hooking up the new genset about how difficult it would be and how the a/c probably wouldn't work from the generator and that I wouldn't be using half the generator and the half I would be using would be overloaded because I only had one circuit and on and on.  I had to point out that there was another separate circuit just for the A/C, which could easily be seen because there are two shore power plugs and two transfer switches.  He said "Oh.  No problem".  I love working with professionals.
         
        Anyway, the question of the day.  Lots of leaks.  Surprise, surprise. The one of most concern is in the lockers in the aft cabin, port side.  Pat, my wife, lined them with paper towels to see if the water was new or old.  Soaked, of course.  I did a quick and dirty seal job on the windows.  No luck.    I'm reading about people doing the hull/deck joint.  Am I in for a big nasty?  I'm planning on rebedding all the windows and replacing most of the Plexi.  If that's the source I'm golden.  If it's the hull/deck joint I have no idea what I'm facing.  Any thoughts?
         
        Dick


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      • Steven Ellsworth
        Hi Jack: The TACO rail can be found at http://www.tacomarine.com/item--1-9-16-x-1-1-2-Aluminum-Sailboat-Toe-Rail--A62-0009.html. It fits right over the lip of
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 2, 2007
          Hi Jack:
           
          The TACO rail can be found at http://www.tacomarine.com/item--1-9-16-x-1-1-2-Aluminum-Sailboat-Toe-Rail--A62-0009.html. It fits right over the lip of the hull/deck joint and gives you loads of places to rig preventers, blocks, etc. I love it. The only problem I had putting it on was bending the rail that goes over the transom. I was on the hard and had to rig big block and tackle to the cradle and then attach one side and bend the other to fit. If it came loose while bending it probably would have likked someone. You cannot get to the underside of the bolts in the transom area so I just drilled the hole sundersized and threaded the bolts into the glass. After over 7000 miles, no leaks. I don't attach anything to the transom rail however and consider it just for looks. You could also glass the transom area like Black Swan and that might be a lot easier. Also better for the step area. I considered breaking the aft rail and adding a teak step on the transom, but couldn;t bend the rail in small segments.
           
          I have some pictures on the group website under SV/ Destiny. If you need more, let me know.
           
          Best of luck,
           
          Steve
          SV Destiny

          Jack V J <captjackedenton@...> wrote:
          hi steve,,would love to get some details on your taco aluminum rail installation. i am considering replacing my teak with aluminum and plan to move the stantions outboard  slightly,,,, ,,,,,,,they can be real toe stoppers,,,, ,,,dont know why they didnt originally incorporate the bases into the upturn,,,, possibly incorporating part of the base into the caprail. originally thought about doing this with the teak cap rail but then thought aluminum cap such as the teco or other ,,even may fab up my own.  sure would be nice to have more locations to cleat off to or just lash something off to.   happy new year everyone.       jack

          Steven Ellsworth <stevenellsworth@ sbcglobal. net> wrote:
          Hi Dick:

          Steve from Destiny here.

          Hull to deck joint is definately a potential source for the water. We leaked badly there as well. Under the teak caprail, there is about a 1/4" gap that was bedded with pickup truck roll caulking commonly used on camper shells. Mine desintigrated and left the gap wide open. I didn't find this until I removed the teak to replace with TACO aluminum rail and thru bolted the entire joint.

          Had the same issues with the genset.

          It took me 1 year of cruising and 6 months full time on the hard to completely solve all the issues with the boat.

          PS:

          I have replaced all of the above including the windows and still leak in area you describe. I am thinking it might be the screws that hold the hatch cover over the bed. I have re bedded the mast step on mizzen and that is solid.

          Until you stop the leaks and hole sin the teak caprail, there is little to do but drain the affected areas.

          By now, you probably wish you had knbown all of this before your purchase!

          Me too, but now we are really happy with Destiny. Just don't give up too soon or sell too early after the re commissioning!

          Dick Pluta <dick8139@earthlink. net> wrote:
          The learning curve is steep.  After only 3 days on the boat I have found enough work to keep me busy for the rest of my life.  I have already refurbished three houses, one of them 400 years old, and this is going to be the toughest.  After getting a lengthy lesson from the electrician who is hooking up the new genset about how difficult it would be and how the a/c probably wouldn't work from the generator and that I wouldn't be using half the generator and the half I would be using would be overloaded because I only had one circuit and on and on.  I had to point out that there was another separate circuit just for the A/C, which could easily be seen because there are two shore power plugs and two transfer switches.  He said "Oh.  No problem".  I love working with professionals.
           
          Anyway, the question of the day.  Lots of leaks.  Surprise, surprise. The one of most concern is in the lockers in the aft cabin, port side.  Pat, my wife, lined them with paper towels to see if the water was new or old.  Soaked, of course.  I did a quick and dirty seal job on the windows.  No luck.    I'm reading about people doing the hull/deck joint.  Am I in for a big nasty?  I'm planning on rebedding all the windows and replacing most of the Plexi.  If that's the source I'm golden.  If it's the hull/deck joint I have no idea what I'm facing.  Any thoughts?
           
          Dick


          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
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        • Jack V J
          steve, thanks for the info,,,,,,,,,,,jack Steven Ellsworth wrote: Hi Jack: The TACO rail can be found at
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 2, 2007
            steve, thanks for the info,,,,,,,,,,,jack

            Steven Ellsworth <stevenellsworth@...> wrote:
            Hi Jack:
             
            The TACO rail can be found at http://www.tacomari ne.com/item- -1-9-16-x- 1-1-2-Aluminum- Sailboat- Toe-Rail- -A62-0009. html. It fits right over the lip of the hull/deck joint and gives you loads of places to rig preventers, blocks, etc. I love it. The only problem I had putting it on was bending the rail that goes over the transom. I was on the hard and had to rig big block and tackle to the cradle and then attach one side and bend the other to fit. If it came loose while bending it probably would have likked someone. You cannot get to the underside of the bolts in the transom area so I just drilled the hole sundersized and threaded the bolts into the glass. After over 7000 miles, no leaks. I don't attach anything to the transom rail however and consider it just for looks. You could also glass the transom area like Black Swan and that might be a lot easier. Also better for the step area. I considered breaking the aft rail and adding a teak step on the transom, but couldn;t bend the rail in small segments.
             
            I have some pictures on the group website under SV/ Destiny. If you need more, let me know.
             
            Best of luck,
             
            Steve
            SV Destiny

            Jack V J <captjackedenton@ yahoo.com> wrote:
            hi steve,,would love to get some details on your taco aluminum rail installation. i am considering replacing my teak with aluminum and plan to move the stantions outboard  slightly,,,, ,,,,,,,they can be real toe stoppers,,,, ,,,dont know why they didnt originally incorporate the bases into the upturn,,,, possibly incorporating part of the base into the caprail. originally thought about doing this with the teak cap rail but then thought aluminum cap such as the teco or other ,,even may fab up my own.  sure would be nice to have more locations to cleat off to or just lash something off to.   happy new year everyone.       jack

            Steven Ellsworth <stevenellsworth@ sbcglobal. net> wrote:
            Hi Dick:

            Steve from Destiny here.

            Hull to deck joint is definately a potential source for the water. We leaked badly there as well. Under the teak caprail, there is about a 1/4" gap that was bedded with pickup truck roll caulking commonly used on camper shells. Mine desintigrated and left the gap wide open. I didn't find this until I removed the teak to replace with TACO aluminum rail and thru bolted the entire joint.

            Had the same issues with the genset.

            It took me 1 year of cruising and 6 months full time on the hard to completely solve all the issues with the boat.

            PS:

            I have replaced all of the above including the windows and still leak in area you describe. I am thinking it might be the screws that hold the hatch cover over the bed. I have re bedded the mast step on mizzen and that is solid.

            Until you stop the leaks and hole sin the teak caprail, there is little to do but drain the affected areas.

            By now, you probably wish you had knbown all of this before your purchase!

            Me too, but now we are really happy with Destiny. Just don't give up too soon or sell too early after the re commissioning!

            Dick Pluta <dick8139@earthlink. net> wrote:
            The learning curve is steep.  After only 3 days on the boat I have found enough work to keep me busy for the rest of my life.  I have already refurbished three houses, one of them 400 years old, and this is going to be the toughest.  After getting a lengthy lesson from the electrician who is hooking up the new genset about how difficult it would be and how the a/c probably wouldn't work from the generator and that I wouldn't be using half the generator and the half I would be using would be overloaded because I only had one circuit and on and on.  I had to point out that there was another separate circuit just for the A/C, which could easily be seen because there are two shore power plugs and two transfer switches.  He said "Oh.  No problem".  I love working with professionals.
             
            Anyway, the question of the day.  Lots of leaks.  Surprise, surprise. The one of most concern is in the lockers in the aft cabin, port side.  Pat, my wife, lined them with paper towels to see if the water was new or old.  Soaked, of course.  I did a quick and dirty seal job on the windows.  No luck.    I'm reading about people doing the hull/deck joint.  Am I in for a big nasty?  I'm planning on rebedding all the windows and replacing most of the Plexi.  If that's the source I'm golden.  If it's the hull/deck joint I have no idea what I'm facing.  Any thoughts?
             
            Dick


            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail. yahoo.com


            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com

          • Slip Away
            Hi Dick, I ve re-done the hull to deck joint on Slip Away, as well as rebedded akk the deck hardware. If it turns out you need to do your hull to deck joint
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 8, 2007
              Hi Dick,
               
              I've re-done the hull to deck joint on Slip Away, as well as rebedded akk the deck hardware.  If it turns out you need to do your hull to deck joint let me know - I'll be glad to share our experiences.  It's a big job, but not terribly difficult.  And the results have been great.  I've been meaning to do an article and post it on the Group website, but have been tardy in getting it done.  Too much other boat work!
               
              Rich Crowell
              s.v. Slip Away
              in Isla Contadora, Islas Perlas, Panama
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com [mailto:IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dick Pluta
              Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 8:38 AM
              To: islanderfreeport41
              Subject: [IslanderFreeport41] Another new subject

              The learning curve is steep.  After only 3 days on the boat I have found enough work to keep me busy for the rest of my life.  I have already refurbished three houses, one of them 400 years old, and this is going to be the toughest.  After getting a lengthy lesson from the electrician who is hooking up the new genset about how difficult it would be and how the a/c probably wouldn't work from the generator and that I wouldn't be using half the generator and the half I would be using would be overloaded because I only had one circuit and on and on.  I had to point out that there was another separate circuit just for the A/C, which could easily be seen because there are two shore power plugs and two transfer switches.  He said "Oh.  No problem".  I love working with professionals.
               
              Anyway, the question of the day.  Lots of leaks.  Surprise, surprise. The one of most concern is in the lockers in the aft cabin, port side.  Pat, my wife, lined them with paper towels to see if the water was new or old.  Soaked, of course.  I did a quick and dirty seal job on the windows.  No luck.    I'm reading about people doing the hull/deck joint.  Am I in for a big nasty?  I'm planning on rebedding all the windows and replacing most of the Plexi.  If that's the source I'm golden.  If it's the hull/deck joint I have no idea what I'm facing.  Any thoughts?
               
              Dick

            • Slip Away
              Hi Annie, We re planning to transit the Panama Canal early next month and enter the Caribbean. We plan to enter the USA in Key West, and I noticed that that
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 8, 2007
                Hi Annie,
                 
                We're planning to transit the Panama Canal early next month and enter the Caribbean.  We plan to enter the USA in Key West, and I noticed that that appears to be your home port.  Would love to get together with you and have "show & tell" with each other's boats - we should arrive in Key West around mid May.  You can respond to our "Land" email at Rich@... - We should have internet access for the next 3 weeks.
                 
                And if you need it, I can provide details of our project removing, rebedding and strengthening our hull to deck joint.  Look forward to hearing from you,
                 
                Rich Crowell & Jan Schwab
                s.v. Slip Away
                in Isla Contadora, Islas Perlas, Panama
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com [mailto:IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of sevensisters25
                Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 8:05 AM
                To: IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [IslanderFreeport41] Re: Another new subject

                Hi all. This is my first post. I had to add my comments about the
                leaking in the aft cabin. We also have leaks after prolonged rains
                that concern us. One is in the aft cabin port side locker behind the
                sink. The other two are in the salon -- one in the port side galley
                locker (aft) and the other is directly across the salon in the same
                place on the starboard side. We are pretty sure they are cap rail
                leaks (we have teak with a track on top). What exactly are we facing?
                We live aboard full time and in the sailing we have done we have
                never buried the rail. Any thoughts? Good ones, I hope?

                Annie Ward
                s/v Evening Star
                Key West


                --- In IslanderFreeport41@ yahoogroups. com, "Dick Pluta"
                <dick8139@.. .> wrote:
                >
                > The learning curve is steep. After only 3 days on the boat I have
                found
                > enough work to keep me busy for the rest of my life. I have already
                > refurbished three houses, one of them 400 years old, and this is
                going to be
                > the toughest. After getting a lengthy lesson from the electrician
                who is
                > hooking up the new genset about how difficult it would be and how
                the a/c
                > probably wouldn't work from the generator and that I wouldn't be
                using half
                > the generator and the half I would be using would be overloaded
                because I
                > only had one circuit and on and on. I had to point out that there
                was
                > another separate circuit just for the A/C, which could easily be
                seen
                > because there are two shore power plugs and two transfer switches.
                He said
                > "Oh. No problem". I love working with professionals.
                >
                > Anyway, the question of the day. Lots of leaks. Surprise,
                surprise. The
                > one of most concern is in the lockers in the aft cabin, port side.
                Pat, my
                > wife, lined them with paper towels to see if the water was new or
                old.
                > Soaked, of course. I did a quick and dirty seal job on the
                windows. No
                > luck. I'm reading about people doing the hull/deck joint. Am I
                in for a
                > big nasty? I'm planning on rebedding all the windows and replacing
                most of
                > the Plexi. If that's the source I'm golden. If it's the hull/deck
                joint I
                > have no idea what I'm facing. Any thoughts?
                >
                > Dick
                >

              • sevensisters25
                Welcome back, Jan and Rich. At least to the internet and soon to the US. I have responded to your land email already. Just wanted to let you know. We look
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 8, 2007
                  Welcome back, Jan and Rich. At least to the internet and soon to the
                  US. I have responded to your "land" email already. Just wanted to let
                  you know. We look forward to seeing you in May and definitely
                  discussing that hull to deck joint! We'll have the Cuba Libre's ready
                  (or whatever your favorite drink may be :)

                  Annie
                  s/v Evening Star

                  --- In IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com, "Slip Away" <rich@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Annie,
                  >
                  > We're planning to transit the Panama Canal early next month and
                  enter the
                  > Caribbean. We plan to enter the USA in Key West, and I noticed
                  that that
                  > appears to be your home port. Would love to get together with you
                  and have
                  > "show & tell" with each other's boats - we should arrive in Key
                  West around
                  > mid May. You can respond to our "Land" email at Rich@... - We
                  > should have internet access for the next 3 weeks.
                  >
                  > And if you need it, I can provide details of our project removing,
                  rebedding
                  > and strengthening our hull to deck joint. Look forward to hearing
                  from you,
                  >
                  > Rich Crowell & Jan Schwab
                  > www.SlipAway.net
                  > s.v. Slip Away
                  > in Isla Contadora, Islas Perlas, Panama
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                  sevensisters25
                  > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 8:05 AM
                  > To: IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [IslanderFreeport41] Re: Another new subject
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi all. This is my first post. I had to add my comments about the
                  > leaking in the aft cabin. We also have leaks after prolonged rains
                  > that concern us. One is in the aft cabin port side locker behind
                  the
                  > sink. The other two are in the salon -- one in the port side
                  galley
                  > locker (aft) and the other is directly across the salon in the
                  same
                  > place on the starboard side. We are pretty sure they are cap rail
                  > leaks (we have teak with a track on top). What exactly are we
                  facing?
                  > We live aboard full time and in the sailing we have done we have
                  > never buried the rail. Any thoughts? Good ones, I hope?
                  >
                  > Annie Ward
                  > s/v Evening Star
                  > Key West
                  >
                  >
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