Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Blistered Bottom Fix Advice and Council

Expand Messages
  • SDW @ SpamArrest
    Dear IF41 friends. Advice sought. History: We own hull #41. Purchased COOL CHANGE in San Diego CA in 2000, renamed her FAMILY TIES, and trucked her to Detroit
    Message 1 of 9 , May 20, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear IF41 friends.

      Advice sought.

      History:
      We own hull #41. Purchased COOL CHANGE in San Diego CA in 2000, renamed her FAMILY TIES, and trucked her to Detroit and slipped her at Gregory Boat Basin, her home port. We've spent many summer months cruising the upper Great Lakes and the waters around S.E. Michigan and Ontario, CA.  In an attempt to solve the blister problem, five years ago we shaved/peeled the bottom, dug out the blisters, filled, faired, and applied 4 coats of WestSystem epoxy. Applying the first two coats of epoxy was difficult as the dry dull sucked up the fresh epoxy and left thousands of pin holes behind. I used firm pressure and a steel scraper to force epoxy into the holes to get a sold first coat. We relaunched and went sailing. But after two years the blisters came back, smaller this time, but hundreds. (The boat only spends 6 months a year in the water. The winter months she's on land and covered.) I've theorized that the blisters were the consequence of my incomplete job of cleaning off the blush between epoxy coats. But not sure of that.  Regardless, last summer (2012) we did not launch but shaved/peeled her hull TWICE to get down past some of the dry chop. After the shavings I went over the hull with a grinder and "smoothed" out the ridges left behind by the shaving tool. She's been thus out of the water for about 18 months now, and most of that time shaved and drying out. The yard has a moisture meter. Last time we applied the bottom we waited  until the moisture content was less than 5% at the worse. 

      Observations of a Shaved Hull:  
      It appears as if when initially laid up the fiberglass was not thoroughly wetted with epoxy resin. The guy that saved the bottom said that the resin has been, over the years, bleached out of the fiberglass, leaving dry chop, which are the lighter spots on the hull. (My degree in Physics doesn't explain how resin in bleached out of fiberglass; perhaps someone can explain that to me.) Certainly grinding out those light colored spots reveals very dry fiberglass. After all the peeling and grinding and sanding, the bottom is not solid gray, indicating a lot of scattered dry fiberglass throughout. (Of interest is that we can plainly see how the hull was originally laid up in parts and patches, each section of the hull is outlined by the  various seams as the outer glass matt and chop were applied.) 

      The Plan:
      With the onsite advice of the Regional Interlux representative we plan to hire the yard to:
      1. Clean the bottom and prep it for barrier coats
      2. Apply 2-4 layers of InterProtect 2000E Barrier Coat System
      3. Fiar in the divots and uneveness with Interlux Watertight Filler
      4. Sand the bottom and the Watertight Filler smooth
      5. Apply four more coats of 2000E Barrier Coat
      6. Finish off with VC17 bottom paint, or something similar.

      We would appreciate any suggestions, comments or advice. We'd love to have a smooth bottom for the next 25 years. What are there rest of you doing, especially those in warm climes?

      Blessings and thank you very much for your comments.

      Stan

      Stanley D. Williams, PhD.
      Executive Producer - Director
      Nineveh's Crossing, LLC & SWC Films
      PO Box 29, Novi, MI 48376 USA
      Office 248-344-4423
      iPhone/Text  310-962-8606

      THE GREAT CONVERSATION IN CINEMA - http://greatconversationcinema.blogspot.com/.
      SCRIPT & STORY CONSULTING - http://www.moralpremise.com
      PRODUCTION - http://www.StanWilliams.com
      DISTRIBUTION - http://www.NinevehsCrossing.com - Order Line: 877-606-1370

      This e-mail and any attachments are intended for the sole use of the addressee listed. It may contain confidential, proprietary and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by return e-mail or call us at 877-606-1370 and delete the e-mail. Unauthorized use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or attachments, in whole or in part is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. 









    • sailingmagnus
      Stan, Welcome to one of the not so fun aspects of FP41 ownership. I have owned Magnus since 1994, a 1975 Vintage FP41 that I purchased as Foxy Lady from the
      Message 2 of 9 , May 21, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Stan,

        Welcome to one of the not so fun aspects of FP41 ownership. I have owned Magnus since 1994, a 1975 Vintage FP41 that I purchased as Foxy Lady from the original owner. The original owner was in his 80's and in poor health when I first looked at her. Bilges were very wet, all the main salon windows were loose, the boat was intact but I was suspect so I passed initially. Months go buy and I go full circle and call to make an offer. The boat is on the hard getting a bottom job. I have the boat surveyed and surveryor mentions some blisters but says it's not "if", it's a matter of when a boat will get them and how bad. I end up buying the boat and loving it but little did I know back then.....

        Three years go by and I haul out for my first bottom job in late 1997 and the bottom is a mess. Yard recommends I sand blast the bottom so I take the recommendation. While you don't get the fairness of a peel it does a great job at removing the bondo like filler the previous owner used. I get put on the hard between a Gulfstar and a Westsail. One peeled the other grinded. The Gulfstar was on the fast track to get back in the water so he peeled, the Westsail tented the boat, manually grinding and put heat lamps and dehumidifer's in to try and dry the hull. I researched and discover "hiab osmocure" but couldn't find anyone in the US that does this. Google it and/or go here http://www.osmosisinfo.com/members/why.html

        I buy there book and the WestEpoxy Blister repair manual. Both excellent references. The Osmocure book talks a lot about the fiberglass not being wet enough during initial layup and the glass bundles act as counduits to wick moisture around the hull which interacts with uncured resin and creates acid which is what the blisters are. So I realize a lot of my problem might be caused from the inside out, remember the wet bilges. It was on this haul out I discover the grey water and black water tanks beneath the engine, both full of sea water from a leaking packing gland which I replaced with a PYI Dripless seal and have had bone dry bilges ever since.

        Go buy yourself a Tramex Skipper moisture meter and don't begin coating the hull until you get dry readings all over.

        http://www.tramex.ie/Our_Products.aspx?SID=8&SSID=11&CatType=Application&CatID=7

        Then be sure to coat the inside and the outside to seal everything. I couldn't get the osmocure equipment so I rationalized I could bake the hull dry with a propane shrink wrap gun. I cooked the hull with 2 - 20lb bottles of propane releasing trapped moisture as explosive erruptions of super heated acid that pop'd like pimples on a teenager. I also pressure washed the hull every other weekend to flush off the acid residue which helps draw more to the surface. This whole process took about a 9 months during which I awlgripped above the waterline. I than used about 15 gallons of West Epoxy to recoat the inside and outside of the hull and used their barrier coat additive and copper additive for the last five coats of epoxy.

        I wish I had stayed in touch with the other two boats alongside me for comparrision. The Gulfstar guy IMO was re-coating a wet hull (my meter proved it) and I bet his problem came back within a couple of years. The Westsail guy was more meticulous BUT he used electric heat lamps and thought the dehumidifier under a tarp was working but I had my doubts. I was good for the first 10 years but on the last two haul out's I'm seeing some chinks in my armor with the return of spots that I need to grind and fill and fair. I think the problem is their is moisture trapped in the ballast area of our keel that your never going to get out. Eventually the blisters return....

        I have the books, the moisture meter, and am willing to help where I can. Magnus and our FP41's are super sturdy boats. Way over built so removing up to an 1/8" of glass is not going to weaken them much. I like your plan of action. I would be sure to use a hot pressure washer B4 coating to clean the hull and get the moisture meter. IF you find wet spots do what you can to force dry those areas. Realize the ballast area of the hull is going to be the hardest.

        Scott s/v Magnus
      • Mike SV ECHO
        Hola Stan, There is a lot of controversy on blister repair. Here is my input. I have been involved in two blister repairs on sister ships, ECHO and Wandering
        Message 3 of 9 , May 21, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Hola Stan,

          There is a lot of controversy on blister repair. Here is my input. I have been involved in two blister repairs on sister ships, ECHO and Wandering Puffin. In both cases I found that there are two types of blisters on Islanders. One is the normal gelcoat to fiberglass blister. These you either peel the hull or grind the blisters to glass and dry the hull. The problem with Islanders is that they also have deep in the glass blisters that the above does not cure. I originally ground the "bumps" off and was getting ready to do surface repairs when I noticed a discoloration in some of them. Since our hulls are 1 and 1/4 inches thick I decided to grind in until I found fresh fiberglass. As I ground thru the first layer of glass I found the real blister. A bluish fluid came running out and left a crater behind it. Probably two table spoons. I kept on grinding and ground in about 3/8 of an inch before I had a good glass surface. I did the same with all blister repair spots for which I had assumed I was done. Some of the deep blisters were a 1/2 inch in and the size of saucers. I ended up with 252 repairs and left some of the smaller ones for later.
          I filled with the west systems 404 structural and added filler to a tooth paste consistency. I left enough room to add a light layer of the featherable "red" west systems filler so I could fair the hull.
          In conclusion there appears the deep blisters are under the first layer of glass on our boats.
          Bill hauled Wandering Puffin for blister repair last year. The yard ground off the "bumps" and called it good. I showed him the deep blisters and he started grinding in. The Puffin also had deep blisters and spent a lot more time grinding them out and repairing. You should probably contact Bill for his opinion if you like.
          So if your only in a skin deep, try grinding some of your discolored spots before repairing the surface.
          Mike Bereznai
          S/V ECHO
        • Steven Ellsworth
          Dear Stan: First, sorry for your bottom problems with your boat. Seems some are worse than others. We Renewed the bottom on Destiny, FP 1975, in 2004. Here s
          Message 4 of 9 , May 22, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Stan:

            First, sorry for your bottom problems with your boat. Seems some are worse than others. We "Renewed" the bottom on Destiny, FP 1975, in 2004. Here's what we found and what we did:

            1. Destiny mostly sat on the hard before we purchased her in 1998. She was cruised sporadically by the first owner, an attorney in Key West. He liked to sail but his wife liked marinas so he sailed the boat to Nassau and she joined him later. Once they returned to Key West, she was put up on the hard. There was a lot of bottom paint build up, but few blisters when we bought her in 1998. Maybe we couldn't see them through the paint layers, I don't know. We added more paint and splashed down and left for the Bahamas for a year.

            2. When we returned, we sanded the paint down and applied another layer of hard Pettit Trinidad. Destiny went to Lake Texoma (Fresh water) and was there until 2003 when we moved her near the house in Oklahoma for a re build.

            3. Using our friends from Texoma (Valiant Yachts were built there) for advice, they suggested we soda blast the bottom with steam/hot water and then assess the situation. We found some blisters, but most were small and the ones that were about 1-2" we ground out with a grinding wheel and 60 grit paper. Let her sit for 6 months in the Oklahoma sun to dry out and then filled with West Epoxy and layed in some mat. Also moved the exhaust exit up about 6" as it was usually below the water line and caused back pressure and a weird gurgle at anchor. Mounted a "Flopper Stopper" over the exit to keep any side seas out. This has been a very good move as we can now monitor the cooling water exiting from the exhaust.

            4. Valiant suggested using Interlux 2000 as a barrier coat and we rolled 8 layers of it on. Followed this with three coats of Pettit ablative anti fouling. If I had it to do over, I'd put three coats of hard bottom paint on before the ablative. As it stands though, we cruised for 7 months in the East Coast/Bahamas then trucked the boat back to Lake Keystone in Oklahoma where she now sits. Nothing has been done to the bottom since 2004 so we'll see how the blister situation is soon as we are planning to haul out this fall and head back to the ocean.

            I like the sound of the vinylester resin suggested by the other boat. I also am really a fan of the interlux 2000 barrier coat. I had a hard time keeping the west epoxy from blushing prior to overcoating with Interprotect. I'd make sure you can easily overcoat the vinylester if you go that route.

            Also, we cut out the top of the integral holding tank to create a deeper bilge and keep the water from being on both sides of the hull. I agree with an earlier comment that this is a potential major source of the blistering. Maybe why we didn't have any blisters there as the tank was unused and had nothing in it.

            If there is water between the internal ballast and the hull on the inside, this has been a problem for other makes. The only choice is to drill a hole from the outside into your cavity above the fiberglass keel base to check it out. I wouldn't want to do this as then you have to make certain the hole is fully plugged later, but if you have large blisters in the area, I'd probably do it.

            Lots of rambling and best of luck with your project. Keep us posted as to what you find, do and how it comes out.

            Steve
            SV Destiny Oklahoma

            --- On Mon, 5/20/13, SDW @ SpamArrest <sdw@...> wrote:

            From: SDW @ SpamArrest <sdw@...>
            Subject: [IslanderFreeport41] Blistered Bottom Fix Advice and Council
            To: "Islander Freeport 41" <IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Monday, May 20, 2013, 6:54 AM

             

            Dear IF41 friends.


            Advice sought.

            History:
            We own hull #41. Purchased COOL CHANGE in San Diego CA in 2000, renamed her FAMILY TIES, and trucked her to Detroit and slipped her at Gregory Boat Basin, her home port. We've spent many summer months cruising the upper Great Lakes and the waters around S.E. Michigan and Ontario, CA.  In an attempt to solve the blister problem, five years ago we shaved/peeled the bottom, dug out the blisters, filled, faired, and applied 4 coats of WestSystem epoxy. Applying the first two coats of epoxy was difficult as the dry dull sucked up the fresh epoxy and left thousands of pin holes behind. I used firm pressure and a steel scraper to force epoxy into the holes to get a sold first coat. We relaunched and went sailing. But after two years the blisters came back, smaller this time, but hundreds. (The boat only spends 6 months a year in the water. The winter months she's on land and covered.) I've theorized that the blisters were the consequence of my incomplete job of cleaning off the blush between epoxy coats. But not sure of that.  Regardless, last summer (2012) we did not launch but shaved/peeled her hull TWICE to get down past some of the dry chop. After the shavings I went over the hull with a grinder and "smoothed" out the ridges left behind by the shaving tool. She's been thus out of the water for about 18 months now, and most of that time shaved and drying out. The yard has a moisture meter. Last time we applied the bottom we waited  until the moisture content was less than 5% at the worse. 

            Observations of a Shaved Hull:  
            It appears as if when initially laid up the fiberglass was not thoroughly wetted with epoxy resin. The guy that saved the bottom said that the resin has been, over the years, bleached out of the fiberglass, leaving dry chop, which are the lighter spots on the hull. (My degree in Physics doesn't explain how resin in bleached out of fiberglass; perhaps someone can explain that to me.) Certainly grinding out those light colored spots reveals very dry fiberglass. After all the peeling and grinding and sanding, the bottom is not solid gray, indicating a lot of scattered dry fiberglass throughout. (Of interest is that we can plainly see how the hull was originally laid up in parts and patches, each section of the hull is outlined by the  various seams as the outer glass matt and chop were applied.) 

            The Plan:
            With the onsite advice of the Regional Interlux representative we plan to hire the yard to:
            1. Clean the bottom and prep it for barrier coats
            2. Apply 2-4 layers of InterProtect 2000E Barrier Coat System
            3. Fiar in the divots and uneveness with Interlux Watertight Filler
            4. Sand the bottom and the Watertight Filler smooth
            5. Apply four more coats of 2000E Barrier Coat
            6. Finish off with VC17 bottom paint, or something similar.

            We would appreciate any suggestions, comments or advice. We'd love to have a smooth bottom for the next 25 years. What are there rest of you doing, especially those in warm climes?

            Blessings and thank you very much for your comments.

            Stan

            Stanley D. Williams, PhD.
            Executive Producer - Director
            Nineveh's Crossing, LLC & SWC Films
            PO Box 29, Novi, MI 48376 USA
            Office 248-344-4423
            iPhone/Text  310-962-8606

            THE GREAT CONVERSATION IN CINEMA - http://greatconversationcinema.blogspot.com/.
            SCRIPT & STORY CONSULTING - http://www.moralpremise.com
            PRODUCTION - http://www.StanWilliams.com
            DISTRIBUTION - http://www.NinevehsCrossing.com - Order Line: 877-606-1370

            This e-mail and any attachments are intended for the sole use of the addressee listed. It may contain confidential, proprietary and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by return e-mail or call us at 877-606-1370 and delete the e-mail. Unauthorized use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or attachments, in whole or in part is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. 









          • tony51sailing
            Ahh, yes, blisters the bain of FB boats. I did have 5 blisters (saucer sized) when I hauled in 2011. (time of purchase) The surveyor was not overly concerned
            Message 5 of 9 , May 25, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Ahh, yes, blisters the bain of FB boats. I did have 5 blisters (saucer sized) when I hauled in 2011. (time of purchase) The surveyor was not overly concerned about them since the hull wasn't soft. However, we did have the largest 1 ground to verify potential damage. It had to be ground about 3/8 deep. It was repaired & painted over. The other blisters drained during the 2 week time that the boat was hauled, & seeped a brown goo that looked like uncured resin. There were a few other blemishes that were sanded & faired at that time also. Since I didn't need a full bottom job at the time, I only had the yard paint the repaired spots so I have marked locations (brighter paint) for the next haul out. About seepage from the holding tanks, did you remove your tanks, coat the hull inside in that area, replace with other tanks, or reseal & use the original tanks.

              --- In IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com, "sailingmagnus" <sailingmagnus@...> wrote:
              >
              > Stan,
              >
              > Welcome to one of the not so fun aspects of FP41 ownership. I have owned Magnus since 1994, a 1975 Vintage FP41 that I purchased as Foxy Lady from the original owner. The original owner was in his 80's and in poor health when I first looked at her. Bilges were very wet, all the main salon windows were loose, the boat was intact but I was suspect so I passed initially. Months go buy and I go full circle and call to make an offer. The boat is on the hard getting a bottom job. I have the boat surveyed and surveryor mentions some blisters but says it's not "if", it's a matter of when a boat will get them and how bad. I end up buying the boat and loving it but little did I know back then.....
              >
              > Three years go by and I haul out for my first bottom job in late 1997 and the bottom is a mess. Yard recommends I sand blast the bottom so I take the recommendation. While you don't get the fairness of a peel it does a great job at removing the bondo like filler the previous owner used. I get put on the hard between a Gulfstar and a Westsail. One peeled the other grinded. The Gulfstar was on the fast track to get back in the water so he peeled, the Westsail tented the boat, manually grinding and put heat lamps and dehumidifer's in to try and dry the hull. I researched and discover "hiab osmocure" but couldn't find anyone in the US that does this. Google it and/or go here http://www.osmosisinfo.com/members/why.html
              >
              > I buy there book and the WestEpoxy Blister repair manual. Both excellent references. The Osmocure book talks a lot about the fiberglass not being wet enough during initial layup and the glass bundles act as counduits to wick moisture around the hull which interacts with uncured resin and creates acid which is what the blisters are. So I realize a lot of my problem might be caused from the inside out, remember the wet bilges. It was on this haul out I discover the grey water and black water tanks beneath the engine, both full of sea water from a leaking packing gland which I replaced with a PYI Dripless seal and have had bone dry bilges ever since.
              >
              > Go buy yourself a Tramex Skipper moisture meter and don't begin coating the hull until you get dry readings all over.
              >
              > http://www.tramex.ie/Our_Products.aspx?SID=8&SSID=11&CatType=Application&CatID=7
              >
              > Then be sure to coat the inside and the outside to seal everything. I couldn't get the osmocure equipment so I rationalized I could bake the hull dry with a propane shrink wrap gun. I cooked the hull with 2 - 20lb bottles of propane releasing trapped moisture as explosive erruptions of super heated acid that pop'd like pimples on a teenager. I also pressure washed the hull every other weekend to flush off the acid residue which helps draw more to the surface. This whole process took about a 9 months during which I awlgripped above the waterline. I than used about 15 gallons of West Epoxy to recoat the inside and outside of the hull and used their barrier coat additive and copper additive for the last five coats of epoxy.
              >
              > I wish I had stayed in touch with the other two boats alongside me for comparrision. The Gulfstar guy IMO was re-coating a wet hull (my meter proved it) and I bet his problem came back within a couple of years. The Westsail guy was more meticulous BUT he used electric heat lamps and thought the dehumidifier under a tarp was working but I had my doubts. I was good for the first 10 years but on the last two haul out's I'm seeing some chinks in my armor with the return of spots that I need to grind and fill and fair. I think the problem is their is moisture trapped in the ballast area of our keel that your never going to get out. Eventually the blisters return....
              >
              > I have the books, the moisture meter, and am willing to help where I can. Magnus and our FP41's are super sturdy boats. Way over built so removing up to an 1/8" of glass is not going to weaken them much. I like your plan of action. I would be sure to use a hot pressure washer B4 coating to clean the hull and get the moisture meter. IF you find wet spots do what you can to force dry those areas. Realize the ballast area of the hull is going to be the hardest.
              >
              > Scott s/v Magnus
              >
            • Steven Ellsworth
              Tony: When our fuel tank went out, we replaced it with 2 wing tanks of 65 gallons each. This left space for a Todd 35 gallon holding tank which slides right
              Message 6 of 9 , May 25, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Tony:

                When our fuel tank went out, we replaced it with 2 wing tanks of 65 gallons each. This left space for a Todd 35 gallon holding tank which slides right between the two fuel tanks.

                We use the old holding tank as a deep bilge only to keep most of the boat bone dry.

                This is not an option, however, unless you replace the entire fuel tank.

                Best of luck,

                Steve

                --- On Sat, 5/25/13, tony51sailing <baka@...> wrote:

                From: tony51sailing <baka@...>
                Subject: [IslanderFreeport41] Re: Blistered Bottom Fix Advice and Council
                To: IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Saturday, May 25, 2013, 11:00 AM

                 

                Ahh, yes, blisters the bain of FB boats. I did have 5 blisters (saucer sized) when I hauled in 2011. (time of purchase) The surveyor was not overly concerned about them since the hull wasn't soft. However, we did have the largest 1 ground to verify potential damage. It had to be ground about 3/8 deep. It was repaired & painted over. The other blisters drained during the 2 week time that the boat was hauled, & seeped a brown goo that looked like uncured resin. There were a few other blemishes that were sanded & faired at that time also. Since I didn't need a full bottom job at the time, I only had the yard paint the repaired spots so I have marked locations (brighter paint) for the next haul out. About seepage from the holding tanks, did you remove your tanks, coat the hull inside in that area, replace with other tanks, or reseal & use the original tanks.

                --- In IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com, "sailingmagnus" <sailingmagnus@...> wrote:
                >
                > Stan,
                >
                > Welcome to one of the not so fun aspects of FP41 ownership. I have owned Magnus since 1994, a 1975 Vintage FP41 that I purchased as Foxy Lady from the original owner. The original owner was in his 80's and in poor health when I first looked at her. Bilges were very wet, all the main salon windows were loose, the boat was intact but I was suspect so I passed initially. Months go buy and I go full circle and call to make an offer. The boat is on the hard getting a bottom job. I have the boat surveyed and surveryor mentions some blisters but says it's not "if", it's a matter of when a boat will get them and how bad. I end up buying the boat and loving it but little did I know back then.....
                >
                > Three years go by and I haul out for my first bottom job in late 1997 and the bottom is a mess. Yard recommends I sand blast the bottom so I take the recommendation. While you don't get the fairness of a peel it does a great job at removing the bondo like filler the previous owner used. I get put on the hard between a Gulfstar and a Westsail. One peeled the other grinded. The Gulfstar was on the fast track to get back in the water so he peeled, the Westsail tented the boat, manually grinding and put heat lamps and dehumidifer's in to try and dry the hull. I researched and discover "hiab osmocure" but couldn't find anyone in the US that does this. Google it and/or go here http://www.osmosisinfo.com/members/why.html
                >
                > I buy there book and the WestEpoxy Blister repair manual. Both excellent references. The Osmocure book talks a lot about the fiberglass not being wet enough during initial layup and the glass bundles act as counduits to wick moisture around the hull which interacts with uncured resin and creates acid which is what the blisters are. So I realize a lot of my problem might be caused from the inside out, remember the wet bilges. It was on this haul out I discover the grey water and black water tanks beneath the engine, both full of sea water from a leaking packing gland which I replaced with a PYI Dripless seal and have had bone dry bilges ever since.
                >
                > Go buy yourself a Tramex Skipper moisture meter and don't begin coating the hull until you get dry readings all over.
                >
                > http://www.tramex.ie/Our_Products.aspx?SID=8&SSID=11&CatType=Application&CatID=7
                >
                > Then be sure to coat the inside and the outside to seal everything. I couldn't get the osmocure equipment so I rationalized I could bake the hull dry with a propane shrink wrap gun. I cooked the hull with 2 - 20lb bottles of propane releasing trapped moisture as explosive erruptions of super heated acid that pop'd like pimples on a teenager. I also pressure washed the hull every other weekend to flush off the acid residue which helps draw more to the surface. This whole process took about a 9 months during which I awlgripped above the waterline. I than used about 15 gallons of West Epoxy to recoat the inside and outside of the hull and used their barrier coat additive and copper additive for the last five coats of epoxy.
                >
                > I wish I had stayed in touch with the other two boats alongside me for comparrision. The Gulfstar guy IMO was re-coating a wet hull (my meter proved it) and I bet his problem came back within a couple of years. The Westsail guy was more meticulous BUT he used electric heat lamps and thought the dehumidifier under a tarp was working but I had my doubts. I was good for the first 10 years but on the last two haul out's I'm seeing some chinks in my armor with the return of spots that I need to grind and fill and fair. I think the problem is their is moisture trapped in the ballast area of our keel that your never going to get out. Eventually the blisters return....
                >
                > I have the books, the moisture meter, and am willing to help where I can. Magnus and our FP41's are super sturdy boats. Way over built so removing up to an 1/8" of glass is not going to weaken them much. I like your plan of action. I would be sure to use a hot pressure washer B4 coating to clean the hull and get the moisture meter. IF you find wet spots do what you can to force dry those areas. Realize the ballast area of the hull is going to be the hardest.
                >
                > Scott s/v Magnus
                >

              • sailingmagnus
                Regarding the question: About seepage from the holding tanks, did you remove your tanks, coat the hull inside in that area, replace with other tanks, or
                Message 7 of 9 , May 28, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Regarding the question: " About seepage from the holding tanks, did you remove your tanks, coat the hull inside in that area, replace with other tanks, or reseal & use the original tanks."

                  For those that don't know it below your engine integeral to the hull are two tanks. One Sewage (black water), one aft shower (grey water). These tanks are just empty cavities inside the hull and given the quality of Fiberglass matt and the lack of saturation with resin during the layup these tanks IMO contribute if not start the blister process. The bundles of fiberglass act as capilaries (small tubes or pathways) wicking moisture around the hull. When you think of the toxic acidic or caustic nature of what's held in these tanks and than that moisture wicks around the hull to bind with the uncurred resins it's no wonder the blister process starts.

                  For Magnus when I got the hull dry as measured with my Tramex Moisture meter I than epoxy coated the inside of these tanks. I purchased an old fashion undercoating spray gun sold for car restoration. The beauty of this type of gun is that it comes with a long extension wand and a variety of tips for spray into hard to reach spaces. I like what several others have done, upon replacing the fuel tank the utilize that area for more batteries, holding tanks, or scuba tank storage. I think that is the most prudent thing to do and just stop using the old tanks all together.

                  Scott s/v Magnus


                  --- In IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com, "tony51sailing" <baka@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Ahh, yes, blisters the bain of FB boats. I did have 5 blisters (saucer sized) when I hauled in 2011. (time of purchase) The surveyor was not overly concerned about them since the hull wasn't soft. However, we did have the largest 1 ground to verify potential damage. It had to be ground about 3/8 deep. It was repaired & painted over. The other blisters drained during the 2 week time that the boat was hauled, & seeped a brown goo that looked like uncured resin. There were a few other blemishes that were sanded & faired at that time also. Since I didn't need a full bottom job at the time, I only had the yard paint the repaired spots so I have marked locations (brighter paint) for the next haul out. About seepage from the holding tanks, did you remove your tanks, coat the hull inside in that area, replace with other tanks, or reseal & use the original tanks.
                  >
                  > --- In IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com, "sailingmagnus" <sailingmagnus@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Stan,
                  > >
                  > > Welcome to one of the not so fun aspects of FP41 ownership. I have owned Magnus since 1994, a 1975 Vintage FP41 that I purchased as Foxy Lady from the original owner. The original owner was in his 80's and in poor health when I first looked at her. Bilges were very wet, all the main salon windows were loose, the boat was intact but I was suspect so I passed initially. Months go buy and I go full circle and call to make an offer. The boat is on the hard getting a bottom job. I have the boat surveyed and surveryor mentions some blisters but says it's not "if", it's a matter of when a boat will get them and how bad. I end up buying the boat and loving it but little did I know back then.....
                  > >
                  > > Three years go by and I haul out for my first bottom job in late 1997 and the bottom is a mess. Yard recommends I sand blast the bottom so I take the recommendation. While you don't get the fairness of a peel it does a great job at removing the bondo like filler the previous owner used. I get put on the hard between a Gulfstar and a Westsail. One peeled the other grinded. The Gulfstar was on the fast track to get back in the water so he peeled, the Westsail tented the boat, manually grinding and put heat lamps and dehumidifer's in to try and dry the hull. I researched and discover "hiab osmocure" but couldn't find anyone in the US that does this. Google it and/or go here http://www.osmosisinfo.com/members/why.html
                  > >
                  > > I buy there book and the WestEpoxy Blister repair manual. Both excellent references. The Osmocure book talks a lot about the fiberglass not being wet enough during initial layup and the glass bundles act as counduits to wick moisture around the hull which interacts with uncured resin and creates acid which is what the blisters are. So I realize a lot of my problem might be caused from the inside out, remember the wet bilges. It was on this haul out I discover the grey water and black water tanks beneath the engine, both full of sea water from a leaking packing gland which I replaced with a PYI Dripless seal and have had bone dry bilges ever since.
                  > >
                  > > Go buy yourself a Tramex Skipper moisture meter and don't begin coating the hull until you get dry readings all over.
                  > >
                  > > http://www.tramex.ie/Our_Products.aspx?SID=8&SSID=11&CatType=Application&CatID=7
                  > >
                  > > Then be sure to coat the inside and the outside to seal everything. I couldn't get the osmocure equipment so I rationalized I could bake the hull dry with a propane shrink wrap gun. I cooked the hull with 2 - 20lb bottles of propane releasing trapped moisture as explosive erruptions of super heated acid that pop'd like pimples on a teenager. I also pressure washed the hull every other weekend to flush off the acid residue which helps draw more to the surface. This whole process took about a 9 months during which I awlgripped above the waterline. I than used about 15 gallons of West Epoxy to recoat the inside and outside of the hull and used their barrier coat additive and copper additive for the last five coats of epoxy.
                  > >
                  > > I wish I had stayed in touch with the other two boats alongside me for comparrision. The Gulfstar guy IMO was re-coating a wet hull (my meter proved it) and I bet his problem came back within a couple of years. The Westsail guy was more meticulous BUT he used electric heat lamps and thought the dehumidifier under a tarp was working but I had my doubts. I was good for the first 10 years but on the last two haul out's I'm seeing some chinks in my armor with the return of spots that I need to grind and fill and fair. I think the problem is their is moisture trapped in the ballast area of our keel that your never going to get out. Eventually the blisters return....
                  > >
                  > > I have the books, the moisture meter, and am willing to help where I can. Magnus and our FP41's are super sturdy boats. Way over built so removing up to an 1/8" of glass is not going to weaken them much. I like your plan of action. I would be sure to use a hot pressure washer B4 coating to clean the hull and get the moisture meter. IF you find wet spots do what you can to force dry those areas. Realize the ballast area of the hull is going to be the hardest.
                  > >
                  > > Scott s/v Magnus
                  > >
                  >
                • Slip Away - Rich & Jan
                  Hi All, Slip Away is finally back to cruising - YIPPEE!!! We arrived in Fiji a couple of days ago - the passage from New Zealand was just great for us, with a
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 29, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Hi All,

                     

                    Slip Away is finally back to cruising – YIPPEE!!!  We arrived in Fiji a couple of days ago – the passage from New Zealand was just great for us, with a 2+ week stop at Minerva reef in very settled weather (except for one night of 40+ knot winds as a front passed thru).  It’s unusual to be able to spend that much time at Minerva without getting blown out by weather, so we felt very lucky.  Luckier yet, we didn’t get our asses kicked on either leg of the passage, which is really great.  It’s one of the more nerve-wracking passages as it’s about 8-10 days, and you’re most likely to have to endure at least one of the fronts that march across from West to East.  There was a boat on the SSB Radio net this morning (a Deerfoot 65) who had put out a Pan Pan at 0200 this morning because they had their sails blown out with 50 knots of wind and 25-30 foot seas.  There but for the grace of God go us . . .

                     

                    But I digress – on to blisters.  First, I was fascinated by the info Scott (Magnus) provided.  Great pile of research, and super advice.  When we bought Slip Away 12 years ago, she had LOTS of blisters.  We were eager to try and get her ready to cruise, plus I was pretty ignorant of the whole blister subject.  So we decided to take the short cut of grinding and fairing all the blisters.  The divots were faired/filled with vinylester resin, and Interlux 2000E was applied as a barrier coat.  It has worked very well for us.  We had no evidence of blisters for about 4-5 years, then have had a few to tend to at each haulout.  But nothing like the first time.

                     

                    The last haulout in New Zealand we had probably 8 – 10 blisters that we ground out and faired, and applied a new layer of Interlux 2000E.  We’ve been hauled out every year or two, as we live on and cruise Slip Away full time.  The approach we’ve followed works for us, but like someone mentioned in another response, it sounds like each boat may be different.  Also, since we’ve been out of the USA for some time, it’s been a while since we’ve had to use our holding tank, so that probably helps us.  In New Zealand (by the way, the best yard I’ve ever been in!) the yard was very experienced at blister repair.  They peeled 5 boats while we were there.  The yard manager tried very hard to convince us that we should have them fix ours properly.  Though the cost was fairly reasonable, I didn’t really want to spend the time on the hard to do the job properly, and dealing with a few blisters each haulout isn’t a big deal for us – we’d rather spend the time on the water (and the money on beer and rum!)  So, it’s a choice.  I know we haven’t fixed the problem, but our boat’s still safe and functional.

                     

                    Steve also mentioned raising the engine exhaust.  We finally did that about 3 years ago, and I’m really glad we did.  Our Yanmar liked the backpressure of the underwater exhaust even less than the old Chrysler-Nissan.  But what I really like is being able to see the water coming out of the exhaust and seeing if it’s smoking, etc.  Plus it sounds cooler – it’s actually less loud that the weird burbling sound it used to make.  I didn’t put a flapper valve on it, but that seems like a good idea.

                     

                    All the best.

                    Rich

                    s.v Slip Away

                    in Savu Savu, Fiji

                     

                    From: IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com [mailto:IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SDW @ SpamArrest
                    Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 11:54 PM
                    To: Islander Freeport 41
                    Subject: [IslanderFreeport41] Blistered Bottom Fix Advice and Council

                     

                     

                    Dear IF41 friends.

                     

                    Advice sought.

                     

                    History:

                    We own hull #41. Purchased COOL CHANGE in San Diego CA in 2000, renamed her FAMILY TIES, and trucked her to Detroit and slipped her at Gregory Boat Basin, her home port. We've spent many summer months cruising the upper Great Lakes and the waters around S.E. Michigan and Ontario, CA.  In an attempt to solve the blister problem, five years ago we shaved/peeled the bottom, dug out the blisters, filled, faired, and applied 4 coats of WestSystem epoxy. Applying the first two coats of epoxy was difficult as the dry dull sucked up the fresh epoxy and left thousands of pin holes behind. I used firm pressure and a steel scraper to force epoxy into the holes to get a sold first coat. We relaunched and went sailing. But after two years the blisters came back, smaller this time, but hundreds. (The boat only spends 6 months a year in the water. The winter months she's on land and covered.) I've theorized that the blisters were the consequence of my incomplete job of cleaning off the blush between epoxy coats. But not sure of that.  Regardless, last summer (2012) we did not launch but shaved/peeled her hull TWICE to get down past some of the dry chop. After the shavings I went over the hull with a grinder and "smoothed" out the ridges left behind by the shaving tool. She's been thus out of the water for about 18 months now, and most of that time shaved and drying out. The yard has a moisture meter. Last time we applied the bottom we waited  until the moisture content was less than 5% at the worse. 

                     

                    Observations of a Shaved Hull:  

                    It appears as if when initially laid up the fiberglass was not thoroughly wetted with epoxy resin. The guy that saved the bottom said that the resin has been, over the years, bleached out of the fiberglass, leaving dry chop, which are the lighter spots on the hull. (My degree in Physics doesn't explain how resin in bleached out of fiberglass; perhaps someone can explain that to me.) Certainly grinding out those light colored spots reveals very dry fiberglass. After all the peeling and grinding and sanding, the bottom is not solid gray, indicating a lot of scattered dry fiberglass throughout. (Of interest is that we can plainly see how the hull was originally laid up in parts and patches, each section of the hull is outlined by the  various seams as the outer glass matt and chop were applied.) 

                     

                    The Plan:

                    With the onsite advice of the Regional Interlux representative we plan to hire the yard to:

                    1. Clean the bottom and prep it for barrier coats

                    2. Apply 2-4 layers of InterProtect 2000E Barrier Coat System

                    3. Fiar in the divots and uneveness with Interlux Watertight Filler

                    4. Sand the bottom and the Watertight Filler smooth

                    5. Apply four more coats of 2000E Barrier Coat

                    6. Finish off with VC17 bottom paint, or something similar.

                     

                    We would appreciate any suggestions, comments or advice. We'd love to have a smooth bottom for the next 25 years. What are there rest of you doing, especially those in warm climes?

                     

                    Blessings and thank you very much for your comments.

                     

                    Stan

                     

                    Stanley D. Williams, PhD.

                    Executive Producer - Director

                    Nineveh's Crossing, LLC & SWC Films

                    PO Box 29, Novi, MI 48376 USA

                    Office 248-344-4423

                    iPhone/Text  310-962-8606

                     

                    THE GREAT CONVERSATION IN CINEMA - http://greatconversationcinema.blogspot.com/.
                    SCRIPT & STORY CONSULTING - http://www.moralpremise.com

                    PRODUCTION - http://www.StanWilliams.com
                    DISTRIBUTION - http://www.NinevehsCrossing.com - Order Line: 877-606-1370

                     

                    This e-mail and any attachments are intended for the sole use of the addressee listed. It may contain confidential, proprietary and/or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by return e-mail or call us at 877-606-1370 and delete the e-mail. Unauthorized use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or attachments, in whole or in part is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. 

                     

                     

                     

                     

                     

                     

                     

                     

                    No virus found in this message.
                    Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                    Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6362 - Release Date: 05/27/13

                  • stanwilliamsphd
                    Thanks for everyone s response to my query and plan for repairing the blisters on FAMILY TIES. To recap, FAMILY TIES is hull #41 (1976) that we trucked from
                    Message 9 of 9 , May 29, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks for everyone's response to my query and plan for repairing the blisters on FAMILY TIES. To recap, FAMILY TIES is hull #41 (1976) that we trucked from San Diego to Detroit in 1999. (Wrote CRUISING WORLD Jan 2000 article about trucking overland.) Knew the boat had a blister issue upon purchase. We peeled hull a few years later, let dry 8 months on the hard, and then West Systems barrier coated. Blisters returned in 2 years. Boat is only in Great Lakes water 6 months a year. Last summer we peeled two layers, let dry for now 10 months. Someone on the board mentioned http://www.hotvac.com and a long PDF document that explained the research behind the device. (Vacuum hot pads that post-cure the uncured (but old and latent in the hull) resin and glycol. A guy locally in Detroit has a system, so we're going to give it a try. The hull was dry inside for years except for minor bilge drainage under the engine. But the whole boat is universally blistered, not just under engine holding tank area. So, we're going to try to post-cure the resin, not just dry the hull... before we fair with Interlux Watertite and then barrier coat with either Sea Hawk Tuff Stuff Epoxy or 2000E. The yard prefers to use the Sea Hawk product, although 2000E has a good track record here. Comments?
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.