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Re: [IslanderFreeport41] Mast Rake

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  • Jack V J
    scott,, ,jim is right about the drawings. if you get the best profile drawing and use a protractor you will find the rake angle intended. since our masts are
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 1, 2006
      scott,, ,jim is right about  the drawings. if you get the best profile drawing and use a protractor you will find the rake angle intended. since our masts are free standing ,,,not fixed at the base as a keel stepped which passes through the deck or cabin top, you can set the rake without introducing any shape in the masts.,,,,sag in supporting base will not be a factor in the rake.,,,,,however , please check to see that all elements in the compression column are sound before making adjustments or retensioning standing rigging,,,,or sailing. this compression column includes the mast,,,especially the base which is subject to corrosion, the cabin top material,the bracket and its fasteners inside cabin, the compression post , sole material, and mast step,,,,bridge structure for the mizzen.     to set rake you must slack (not disconnect)  all standing rigging so you dont introduce bending (banana shape)         use the  shrouds to set the rake and vertical attitude. this is the easiest way since it takes less running around. then start setting  up fore and aft stays and triatic(between top of main and mizzen)    ,,,,keep sighting masts to make sure you dont pull masts out of column  (introduce bending).  the whole process is time consuming and somewhat tedious.  you may want to play with it to get all alignment and then i would strongly suggest you hire a rigger to do final tuning of standing rigging. and i do mean tuning. its an art and technology, requiring expertise and tuning gage to get it right. even with the proper equipment its something that takes time to learn and do correctly. every time you tighten one wire you affect tension in others. i got fairly good at it at one time and will do my own but it will take some relearning as i proceed. find i nice quiet smooth pond somewhere and have fun.  hope this helps.  good luck   jack

      James Lempe <james_lempe@...> wrote:
      Scott,
       
      Great question!  I don't have any answers but maybe you could draw some conclusions from some of the origional drawings posted on our site.  Don;t know if they are accurate enough to be of any help.  I look forward to comments from others.
       
      Jim S/V Interlude
      Homer Alaska

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Scott <sailingmagnus@ yahoo.com>
      To: IslanderFreeport41@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:56:43 AM
      Subject: [IslanderFreeport41 ] Mast Rake

      Folks,

      We all know about the cabin top sag and mast post compression
      problems on 30+ year old IF41's. For years I have been concerned
      about my mizzen mast appearing to lean to far aft. I can tighten the
      top stay between the mizzen and main mast but then the mizzen mast gets
      a bit of a bannana shape. I don't know if my aft cabin top has sagged
      so much that it exagerates the mizzen mast rake. The main mast
      appears to suffer a bit from the same problem. I have read articles
      that talk about tightening up the headstay to increase the boats
      ability to point upwind. This causes the main mast to bannana a bit
      also but then again I wonder if the cabin top is just sagging in such a
      way to make the mast rake appear excessive. I was curious if anyone
      knows what is the correct amount of rake aft for both masts and how to
      check it?

      Scott s/v Magnus



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    • svfortuitous
      A bit of trivia for the group: My IF41- Fortuitous is a 1979 model and the main mast is keel stepped. The mizzen in Deck stepped. I assume the later models (to
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 4, 2006
        A bit of trivia for the group:

        My IF41- Fortuitous is a 1979 model and the main mast is keel stepped.
        The mizzen in Deck stepped. I assume the later models (to 1982?)would
        also have keel stepped mains.

        Ralph
        s/v Fortuitous




        > scott,, ,jim is right about the drawings. if you get the best
        profile drawing and use a protractor you will find the rake angle
        intended. since our masts are free standing ,,,not fixed at the base
        as a keel stepped which passes through the deck or cabin top, you can
        set the rake without introducing any shape in the masts.,,,,sag in
        supporting base will not be a factor in the rake.,,,,,however ,
        please check to see that all elements in the compression column are
        sound before making adjustments or retensioning standing
        rigging,,,,or sailing. this compression column includes the
        mast,,,especially the base which is subject to corrosion, the cabin
        top material,the bracket and its fasteners inside cabin, the
        compression post , sole material, and mast step,,,,bridge structure
        for the mizzen. to set rake you must slack (not disconnect) all
        standing rigging so you dont introduce bending (banana shape)
        use the shrouds to set the rake and vertical attitude. this is the
        > easiest way since it takes less running around. then start
        setting up fore and aft stays and triatic(between top of main and
        mizzen) ,,,,keep sighting masts to make sure you dont pull masts
        out of column (introduce bending). the whole process is time
        consuming and somewhat tedious. you may want to play with it to get
        all alignment and then i would strongly suggest you hire a rigger to
        do final tuning of standing rigging. and i do mean tuning. its an art
        and technology, requiring expertise and tuning gage to get it right.
        even with the proper equipment its something that takes time to learn
        and do correctly. every time you tighten one wire you affect tension
        in others. i got fairly good at it at one time and will do my own but
        it will take some relearning as i proceed. find i nice quiet smooth
        pond somewhere and have fun. hope this helps. good luck jack
        >
        > James Lempe <james_lempe@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Scott,
        >
        > Great question! I don't have any answers but maybe you could draw
        some conclusions from some of the origional drawings posted on our
        site. Don;t know if they are accurate enough to be of any help. I
        look forward to comments from others.
        >
        > Jim S/V Interlude
        > Homer Alaska
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: Scott <sailingmagnus@...>
        > To: IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:56:43 AM
        > Subject: [IslanderFreeport41] Mast Rake
        >
        > Folks,
        >
        > We all know about the cabin top sag and mast post compression
        > problems on 30+ year old IF41's. For years I have been concerned
        > about my mizzen mast appearing to lean to far aft. I can tighten
        the
        > top stay between the mizzen and main mast but then the mizzen mast
        gets
        > a bit of a bannana shape. I don't know if my aft cabin top has
        sagged
        > so much that it exagerates the mizzen mast rake. The main mast
        > appears to suffer a bit from the same problem. I have read articles
        > that talk about tightening up the headstay to increase the boats
        > ability to point upwind. This causes the main mast to bannana a bit
        > also but then again I wonder if the cabin top is just sagging in
        such a
        > way to make the mast rake appear excessive. I was curious if anyone
        > knows what is the correct amount of rake aft for both masts and how
        to
        > check it?
        >
        > Scott s/v Magnus
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
      • Jack V J
        ralph, very interesting that your main is keel stepped. havent seen that many if41s but just assumed all deck stepped. interested to know if anyone else is
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 13, 2006
          ralph, very interesting that your main is keel stepped. havent seen that many if41s but just assumed all deck stepped. interested to know if anyone else is keel stepped,is your layout different or do you sidle by the mast to access the fwd cabin? is it possible this was a later modification by owner? jack

          svfortuitous <ralph.kallberg@...> wrote:
          A bit of trivia for the group:

          My IF41- Fortuitous is a 1979 model and the main mast is keel stepped.
          The mizzen in Deck stepped. I assume the later models (to 1982?)would
          also have keel stepped mains.

          Ralph
          s/v Fortuitous

          > scott,, ,jim is right about the drawings. if you get the best
          profile drawing and use a protractor you will find the rake angle
          intended. since our masts are free standing ,,,not fixed at the base
          as a keel stepped which passes through the deck or cabin top, you can
          set the rake without introducing any shape in the masts.,,,,sag in
          supporting base will not be a factor in the rake.,,,,,however ,
          please check to see that all elements in the compression column are
          sound before making adjustments or retensioning standing
          rigging,,,,or sailing. this compression column includes the
          mast,,,especially the base which is subject to corrosion, the cabin
          top material,the bracket and its fasteners inside cabin, the
          compression post , sole material, and mast step,,,,bridge structure
          for the mizzen. to set rake you must slack (not disconnect) all
          standing rigging so you dont introduce bending (banana shape)
          use the shrouds to set the rake and vertical attitude. this is the
          > easiest way since it takes less running around. then start
          setting up fore and aft stays and triatic(between top of main and
          mizzen) ,,,,keep sighting masts to make sure you dont pull masts
          out of column (introduce bending). the whole process is time
          consuming and somewhat tedious. you may want to play with it to get
          all alignment and then i would strongly suggest you hire a rigger to
          do final tuning of standing rigging. and i do mean tuning. its an art
          and technology, requiring expertise and tuning gage to get it right.
          even with the proper equipment its something that takes time to learn
          and do correctly. every time you tighten one wire you affect tension
          in others. i got fairly good at it at one time and will do my own but
          it will take some relearning as i proceed. find i nice quiet smooth
          pond somewhere and have fun. hope this helps. good luck jack
          >
          > James Lempe <james_lempe@ ...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Scott,
          >
          > Great question! I don't have any answers but maybe you could draw
          some conclusions from some of the origional drawings posted on our
          site. Don;t know if they are accurate enough to be of any help. I
          look forward to comments from others.
          >
          > Jim S/V Interlude
          > Homer Alaska
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: Scott <sailingmagnus@ ...>
          > To: IslanderFreeport41@ yahoogroups. com
          > Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:56:43 AM
          > Subject: [IslanderFreeport41 ] Mast Rake
          >
          > Folks,
          >
          > We all know about the cabin top sag and mast post compression
          > problems on 30+ year old IF41's. For years I have been concerned
          > about my mizzen mast appearing to lean to far aft. I can tighten
          the
          > top stay between the mizzen and main mast but then the mizzen mast
          gets
          > a bit of a bannana shape. I don't know if my aft cabin top has
          sagged
          > so much that it exagerates the mizzen mast rake. The main mast
          > appears to suffer a bit from the same problem. I have read articles
          > that talk about tightening up the headstay to increase the boats
          > ability to point upwind. This causes the main mast to bannana a bit
          > also but then again I wonder if the cabin top is just sagging in
          such a
          > way to make the mast rake appear excessive. I was curious if anyone
          > knows what is the correct amount of rake aft for both masts and how
          to
          > check it?
          >
          > Scott s/v Magnus
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail. yahoo.com
          >



          Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

        • Tom
          Hello: I m a new owner of an IF-41. Bought her from Dan Pollard three days ago. She is called WINDSONG and now has Bellingham, Washington State as home
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 14, 2006
            Hello:

            I'm a new owner of an IF-41. Bought her from Dan Pollard three days
            ago. She is called WINDSONG and now has Bellingham, Washington
            State as home port. Her hull number is 118 and she was delivered to
            her first owner in July 1980. Windsong sailed in the San Francisco
            area until this year, so someone from the Bay area may know her. If
            so, I'd love to hear from anyone there. And also from any owners in
            the Puget Sound area.

            As for the mast-stepping question, my main is also keel-stepped, but
            the mizzen is deck-stepped. The main has a deck leak that keeps the
            front cabin floor quite wet. And we do get buckets of rain the the
            great Pacific Northwest, or at least that is the impression I do not
            wish to debunk.

            Tom Dalgliesh
            Windsong, #118
          • R K
            Tom, Congratulations on your new boat! I m not currently a IF41 owner so I can t really comment on the boat yet. On the other hand, we are looking for a I-41
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 14, 2006
              Tom,
               
              Congratulations on your new boat!
               
              I'm not currently a IF41 owner so I can't really comment on the boat yet.
               
              On the other hand,  we are looking for a I-41 as it's the one we've chosen for retirement. Only a few seem to be available on the left coast. Right now we live on a Morgan 38' down here in Olympia and hope to hook up with others in the Sound to compare notes as we go along.  Any information you feel like sharing...likes...dislikes...major/minor repairs would be appreciated.
               
              Again...congrats...hope to get ours and meet up with you.
               
              Ray and Sandy
              West Bay Marina
              Olympia, WA
               
               
               


              Tom <Tom@...> wrote:
              Hello:

              I'm a new owner of an IF-41. Bought her from Dan Pollard three days
              ago. She is called WINDSONG and now has Bellingham, Washington
              State as home port. Her hull number is 118 and she was delivered to
              her first owner in July 1980. Windsong sailed in the San Francisco
              area until this year, so someone from the Bay area may know her. If
              so, I'd love to hear from anyone there. And also from any owners in
              the Puget Sound area.

              As for the mast-stepping question, my main is also keel-stepped, but
              the mizzen is deck-stepped. The main has a deck leak that keeps the
              front cabin floor quite wet. And we do get buckets of rain the the
              great Pacific Northwest, or at least that is the impression I do not
              wish to debunk.

              Tom Dalgliesh
              Windsong, #118


              Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

            • svfortuitous
              Hi Jack Fortuitous is an Islander factory original. I think that the keel stepped masts were standard starting in 1979. The layout has the forward head to
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 15, 2006
                Hi Jack

                Fortuitous is an Islander factory original. I think that the keel
                stepped masts were standard starting in 1979.

                The layout has the forward head to starboard of the mast (just the
                head and shower) and the sink to the Port.
                The mast is not in the way for access to the V berth.

                I will take a few photos and scan the factory brochures and post them
                on my page (not for a few weeks).

                Ralph
                Fortuitous




                > ralph, very interesting that your main is keel stepped. havent seen
                that many if41s but just assumed all deck stepped. interested to know
                if anyone else is keel stepped,is your layout different or do you
                sidle by the mast to access the fwd cabin? is it possible this was a
                later modification by owner? jack
              • Jack V J
                hi ralph, thanks for the info. i believe you said you had leaking around your mast. dont know exactly what the configuration is at cabin roof/mast
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 15, 2006
                  hi ralph, thanks for the info.  i believe you said you had leaking around your mast. dont know exactly what the configuration is at cabin roof/mast intersection but assuming its stnd configuration here are a couple of  suggestions that i have used. uncured neoprene comes on a roll and is used to do some of the detail work on installation of rubber roofs. it sticks to itself and air cures ,,,can be used like a large roll of rubber tape,,,,comes in different widths to wrap your own custom mast boot,,,,,,,hit up a big roofing co or some guys on a job,,,,probably cost a case of beer. will last till you cut it off to pull the stick. can paint after cure .still got a couple rolls somewhere here but dont know where right now or id send you some.   another way is to wrap with duct tape and coat with urethane sealant running slightly beyond tape to provide bond/seal to mast and cabin.have your wife tool it smooth with a frosting spatula and then spray with soapy water and use your hands to finish smoothing. can also paint after full cure.    (tooling sealant is very similar to smoothing  the frosting on a cake ,,,some of the guys i know who installed sealant  for a living got so good at it that their wives would ask them to frost cakes when they baked,,,,no kidding,,,,,,,thats why i said have your wife smooth it because shes probably better at that skill then you)  or go ahead and try it. hope this helps  if its a bit rough or has voids or gets damaged,,,,dont panic just use more sealant to shape/repair or whatever.after it cures,,,   think of sealant as liquid rubber in a convenient package just waiting to be moulded into something,,,,sure youll find other things to make as well   special high temp silicone sealants can be used to make heat resistant seals and gaskets,,,,,,use stick on plastic wrap or cellophane tape as a bond breaker ,,,duct tape and other materials as a dam/form and make your own solid rubber mast wedges out of high mod urethane sealant for instance,,,,etc   etc,,,,,use a couple of dollops to  make rubber cushions for your head door so it doesnt rattle around when your sailing,,,,,dont forget to follow all mfg directions  ,,,,,,,and dont seal yourself into the head      jack

                  svfortuitous <ralph.kallberg@...> wrote:
                  Hi Jack

                  Fortuitous is an Islander factory original. I think that the keel
                  stepped masts were standard starting in 1979.

                  The layout has the forward head to starboard of the mast (just the
                  head and shower) and the sink to the Port.
                  The mast is not in the way for access to the V berth.

                  I will take a few photos and scan the factory brochures and post them
                  on my page (not for a few weeks).

                  Ralph
                  Fortuitous

                  > ralph, very interesting that your main is keel stepped. havent seen
                  that many if41s but just assumed all deck stepped. interested to know
                  if anyone else is keel stepped,is your layout different or do you
                  sidle by the mast to access the fwd cabin? is it possible this was a
                  later modification by owner? jack


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