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Re: caprail to hull sealant

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  • John Otott
    ... assembly ... at ... early ... dried ... the ... boat ... to ... for ... squirt ... good ... Thanks for the info, Scott (and to the others that replied).
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 1, 2008
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      --- In IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com, "Scott"
      <sailingmagnus@...> wrote:
      >
      > John,
      >
      > Approximately every four years I find it necessary to stip my
      > cap rail and refinish it. Part of the refinishing process is
      > replacing the caulk bead you describe. When our boats where built
      > the deck and hull were formed as two separate pieces. Upon
      assembly
      > they caulked the lap joint where the deck overlaps the turn in tab
      at
      > the top of the hull. Unfortunatley sealants from the late 70's
      early
      > 80's didn't hold up that well. Over time they squeezed out or
      dried
      > up. I had the typical leaks you describe so I first caulked with
      > regular latex caulk the inside hull/deck joint. A royal pain in
      the
      > ass as you have get inside every nook and crany from inside the
      boat
      > but with some flexible tubing on the end of a caulk gun I was able
      to
      > do it.
      >
      > Next after stripping the cap rail and sanding to 220 grit
      for
      > varnish, I take 3M-5200, or better the UV stablized 4200 and
      squirt
      > it between the cap rail and hull on the outside and between the
      > caprail and deck on the inside. I apply blue tape to the hull and
      > deck about an 1/8" below the cap rail first. I then varnish the
      > caprail with 3 coats of Cetol and 2 coats of Cetol clear and I'm
      good
      > to go in Florida conditions for another 4 years.
      >
      > Scott S/V Magnus

      Thanks for the info, Scott (and to the others that replied). I'm
      debating whether or not to use "checkbook labor" or do the caprail
      job myself...if I choose the latter, what's the easiest way to strip
      the multitude of varnish layers? When you do it, do you use a heat
      gun or some type of scrapper? I've never tackled a large varnish job
      but would like the experience of doing so...

      thanks

      John S/V Journey
      >
    • R K
      We re using a heat gun and a set of scrapers...works great so far. Ray and Sandy S/V Pure Joy Olympia, WA ... assembly ... at ... early ... dried ... the ...
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 2, 2008
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        We're using a heat gun and a set of scrapers...works great so far.
         
        Ray and Sandy
        S/V Pure Joy
        Olympia, WA

        John Otott <otott@...> wrote:
        --- In IslanderFreeport41@ yahoogroups. com, "Scott"
        <sailingmagnus@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > John,
        >
        > Approximately every four years I find it necessary to stip my
        > cap rail and refinish it. Part of the refinishing process is
        > replacing the caulk bead you describe. When our boats where built
        > the deck and hull were formed as two separate pieces. Upon
        assembly
        > they caulked the lap joint where the deck overlaps the turn in tab
        at
        > the top of the hull. Unfortunatley sealants from the late 70's
        early
        > 80's didn't hold up that well. Over time they squeezed out or
        dried
        > up. I had the typical leaks you describe so I first caulked with
        > regular latex caulk the inside hull/deck joint. A royal pain in
        the
        > ass as you have get inside every nook and crany from inside the
        boat
        > but with some flexible tubing on the end of a caulk gun I was able
        to
        > do it.
        >
        > Next after stripping the cap rail and sanding to 220 grit
        for
        > varnish, I take 3M-5200, or better the UV stablized 4200 and
        squirt
        > it between the cap rail and hull on the outside and between the
        > caprail and deck on the inside. I apply blue tape to the hull and
        > deck about an 1/8" below the cap rail first. I then varnish the
        > caprail with 3 coats of Cetol and 2 coats of Cetol clear and I'm
        good
        > to go in Florida conditions for another 4 years.
        >
        > Scott S/V Magnus

        Thanks for the info, Scott (and to the others that replied). I'm
        debating whether or not to use "checkbook labor" or do the caprail
        job myself...if I choose the latter, what's the easiest way to strip
        the multitude of varnish layers? When you do it, do you use a heat
        gun or some type of scrapper? I've never tackled a large varnish job
        but would like the experience of doing so...

        thanks

        John S/V Journey
        >



        You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

      • Kallberg, Ralph T
        I used 5200 black and so far, touch wood after 1 year, it s not leaking. It is messy to apply, but a lot easier than removing the cap rail. Ralph s/v
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 2, 2008
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        • Slip Away - Rich & Jan
          Hi John, I second Steve Ellsworth s recommendations. You will not fix the leaks until you remove the caprail and clean and reseal the hull to deck joint. It s
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 3, 2008
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            Hi John,
             
            I second Steve Ellsworth's recommendations.  You will not fix the leaks until you remove the caprail and clean and reseal the hull to deck joint.  It's a lot of work, but not terribly difficult.  I also recommend using 3M 5200 for the hull to deck joint.  But I would NEVER use it to seal something like the caprail that you may need to remove some day - unless you don't mind breaking the wood on the caprail when you try to remove it.  5200 is an ADHESIVE sealant, so it's great for the hull to deck joint since it's permanent - not so great for the caprail.
             
            When we reinstalled the caprail, I used Boatlife Life Caulk.  It's been Ok, but I'd probably use Sikkaflex if I had to do it again.  I think it's a bit better, and lasts longer.  We've had NO LEAKS in the past 5 years & 10,000 miles since fixing it, and we've been in some pretty nasty seas a few times.  Before fixing it, you could take a saltwater shower in the V-Berth if you were pounding into a sea.
             
            As to refinishing the caprail, while the boards were removed, we used a chemical Paint & Varnish stripper we got from Home Depot.  Then we used the two part teak cleaner to do a final cleaning of the teak.  When done, it looked like new.  Then we sanded it, and applied two coats of varnish to the underside before reinstalling the boards.  After reinstalling and plugging the screw holes, we varnished the topside of the boards.
             
            For varnish we used a product called Honey Teak.  It's an acrylic urethane.  In the tropics of Central America it lasts an easy 2 years between coats.  We usually recoat after 18 months so it stays real nice.  Cetol is also a long lasting product that many people swear by.  I used it on our previous boat, and it lasted almost as long as the Honey Teak does for us.  What I DID NOT like about it was that it was a relatively soft finish.  You had to be very careful not to get a line rubbing on it, or scrape a shoe against it or it would scratch rather easily.  And it didn't take all that much to wear it thru to the bare wood.  Not good for a Cruising Boat application.  The Honey Teak is an acrylic urethane, and when dry it is very hard.  With all the abuse our boat takes cruising 12 months per year, it still looks as nice as the day we applied it after 18-24 months.  We really like the product.
             
            Good Luck,
            Rich & Jan
            s.v. Slip Away
            in Ambergris Cay, Belize
             
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com [mailto:IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of John Otott
            Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 11:21 PM
            To: IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [IslanderFreeport41] caprail to hull sealant

            Does anyone have a recommendation as to the proper sealant to use
            between the caprail and the hull? I'm not talking about the hull to
            deck joint...I mean the 1/8" (or so) gap that is where the side of the
            hull meets the bottom of the cap rail. Whatever was used before (it is
            black) is hard and falling out in brittle chunks. I am about to have
            my caprail stripped and revarnished so I want to re seal the "seam"
            (not sure what it's called). I have had some seawater seepage in the
            forward lockers (v berth area) when we sail into swells/waves that
            come up to the caprail on the bow.

            Thanks

            John
            "Journey"

          • Dick Pluta
            I ve seen lots of discussion about removing the cap rail and re-sealing the hull to deck joint. My sailing season is about to end but next year I ll be
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 3, 2008
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              I've seen lots of discussion about removing the cap rail and
              re-sealing the hull to deck joint. My sailing season is about to end
              but next year I'll be re-finishing all the wood and it sounds like I
              should be doing the hull/deck joint at the same time. Can anyone give
              me details on how to remove the cap rail?

              Dick Pluta
              Aegea
              Nassau, Bahamas

              On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Slip Away - Rich & Jan
              <rich@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi John,
              >
              > I second Steve Ellsworth's recommendations. You will not fix the leaks
              > until you remove the caprail and clean and reseal the hull to deck joint.
              > It's a lot of work, but not terribly difficult. I also recommend using 3M
              > 5200 for the hull to deck joint. But I would NEVER use it to seal something
              > like the caprail that you may need to remove some day - unless you don't
              > mind breaking the wood on the caprail when you try to remove it. 5200 is an
              > ADHESIVE sealant, so it's great for the hull to deck joint since it's
              > permanent - not so great for the caprail.
              >
              > When we reinstalled the caprail, I used Boatlife Life Caulk. It's been Ok,
              > but I'd probably use Sikkaflex if I had to do it again. I think it's a bit
              > better, and lasts longer. We've had NO LEAKS in the past 5 years & 10,000
              > miles since fixing it, and we've been in some pretty nasty seas a few times.
              > Before fixing it, you could take a saltwater shower in the V-Berth if you
              > were pounding into a sea.
              >
              > As to refinishing the caprail, while the boards were removed, we used a
              > chemical Paint & Varnish stripper we got from Home Depot. Then we used the
              > two part teak cleaner to do a final cleaning of the teak. When done, it
              > looked like new. Then we sanded it, and applied two coats of varnish to the
              > underside before reinstalling the boards. After reinstalling and plugging
              > the screw holes, we varnished the topside of the boards.
              >
              > For varnish we used a product called Honey Teak. It's an acrylic urethane.
              > In the tropics of Central America it lasts an easy 2 years between coats.
              > We usually recoat after 18 months so it stays real nice. Cetol is also a
              > long lasting product that many people swear by. I used it on our previous
              > boat, and it lasted almost as long as the Honey Teak does for us. What I
              > DID NOT like about it was that it was a relatively soft finish. You had to
              > be very careful not to get a line rubbing on it, or scrape a shoe against it
              > or it would scratch rather easily. And it didn't take all that much to wear
              > it thru to the bare wood. Not good for a Cruising Boat application. The
              > Honey Teak is an acrylic urethane, and when dry it is very hard. With all
              > the abuse our boat takes cruising 12 months per year, it still looks as nice
              > as the day we applied it after 18-24 months. We really like the product.
              >
              > Good Luck,
              > Rich & Jan
              > s.v. Slip Away
              > in Ambergris Cay, Belize
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of John Otott
              > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 11:21 PM
              > To: IslanderFreeport41@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [IslanderFreeport41] caprail to hull sealant
              >
              >
              >
              > Does anyone have a recommendation as to the proper sealant to use
              > between the caprail and the hull? I'm not talking about the hull to
              > deck joint...I mean the 1/8" (or so) gap that is where the side of the
              > hull meets the bottom of the cap rail. Whatever was used before (it is
              > black) is hard and falling out in brittle chunks. I am about to have
              > my caprail stripped and revarnished so I want to re seal the "seam"
              > (not sure what it's called). I have had some seawater seepage in the
              > forward lockers (v berth area) when we sail into swells/waves that
              > come up to the caprail on the bow.
              >
              > Thanks
              >
              > John
              > "Journey"
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Steven Ellsworth
              Well, here s three cents worth. Agree with Rich and Jan that Honey Teak is a great product from all I ve heard. I used Cetol, but I dislike wood so I removed
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 3, 2008
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                Well, here's three cents worth. Agree with Rich and Jan that Honey Teak is a great product from all I've heard. I used Cetol, but I dislike wood so I removed almost all of mine. You can see the results on the Group site under Destiny_Oklahoma. I could not get the cap rails off without pretty much completely destroying them. So I did. I got some great looking TACO toe rail and replaced the teak with slotted aluminum. I really like being able to rig preventers and blocks wherever I want. I sealed the hull to deck joint with Sikaflex then throughbolted every 4". Destiny used to shudder bashing into head seas, but now she is as dry as a bone and really stiff and solid. It's no doubt a lot of work, but probably should be high on the list of improvements. I also added a SS compression post under the main mast that is through bolted to the cast iron beam under the mast. I put a dyna plate on the hull side and now have a direct connection to sea for lightning ground. I don't know if it works or not, but we were in a major lightning storm that fried our friends boat to the tune of $ 20,000. I felt like I was inside a strike, but will never know for sure. Only damage was the BG depth guage now works but does some screwy things with the depth alarms.
                 
                You can probably get by with the tube on the end of the caulking gun to jam as much in under the rail from the inside then seal the outside. I agree, don't use 5200 on anything you want to remove later. I really dislike the stuff as I seem to change my mind a lot on what I need to remove!
                 
                Good luck and don't quit moving just to redo the joint!
                 
                Steve
                SV Destiny Oklahoma

                Dick Pluta <dick8139@...> wrote:
                I've seen lots of discussion about removing the cap rail and
                re-sealing the hull to deck joint. My sailing season is about to end
                but next year I'll be re-finishing all the wood and it sounds like I
                should be doing the hull/deck joint at the same time. Can anyone give
                me details on how to remove the cap rail?

                Dick Pluta
                Aegea
                Nassau, Bahamas

                On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Slip Away - Rich & Jan
                <rich@slipaway. net> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi John,
                >
                > I second Steve Ellsworth's recommendations. You will not fix the leaks
                > until you remove the caprail and clean and reseal the hull to deck joint.
                > It's a lot of work, but not terribly difficult. I also recommend using 3M
                > 5200 for the hull to deck joint. But I would NEVER use it to seal something
                > like the caprail that you may need to remove some day - unless you don't
                > mind breaking the wood on the caprail when you try to remove it. 5200 is an
                > ADHESIVE sealant, so it's great for the hull to deck joint since it's
                > permanent - not so great for the caprail.
                >
                > When we reinstalled the caprail, I used Boatlife Life Caulk. It's been Ok,
                > but I'd probably use Sikkaflex if I had to do it again. I think it's a bit
                > better, and lasts longer. We've had NO LEAKS in the past 5 years & 10,000
                > miles since fixing it, and we've been in some pretty nasty seas a few times.
                > Before fixing it, you could take a saltwater shower in the V-Berth if you
                > were pounding into a sea.
                >
                > As to refinishing the caprail, while the boards were removed, we used a
                > chemical Paint & Varnish stripper we got from Home Depot. Then we used the
                > two part teak cleaner to do a final cleaning of the teak. When done, it
                > looked like new. Then we sanded it, and applied two coats of varnish to the
                > underside before reinstalling the boards. After reinstalling and plugging
                > the screw holes, we varnished the topside of the boards.
                >
                > For varnish we used a product called Honey Teak. It's an acrylic urethane.
                > In the tropics of Central America it lasts an easy 2 years between coats.
                > We usually recoat after 18 months so it stays real nice. Cetol is also a
                > long lasting product that many people swear by. I used it on our previous
                > boat, and it lasted almost as long as the Honey Teak does for us. What I
                > DID NOT like about it was that it was a relatively soft finish. You had to
                > be very careful not to get a line rubbing on it, or scrape a shoe against it
                > or it would scratch rather easily. And it didn't take all that much to wear
                > it thru to the bare wood. Not good for a Cruising Boat application. The
                > Honey Teak is an acrylic urethane, and when dry it is very hard. With all
                > the abuse our boat takes cruising 12 months per year, it still looks as nice
                > as the day we applied it after 18-24 months. We really like the product.
                >
                > Good Luck,
                > Rich & Jan
                > s.v. Slip Away
                > in Ambergris Cay, Belize
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: IslanderFreeport41@ yahoogroups. com
                > [mailto:IslanderFreeport41@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of John Otott
                > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 11:21 PM
                > To: IslanderFreeport41@ yahoogroups. com
                > Subject: [IslanderFreeport41 ] caprail to hull sealant
                >
                >
                >
                > Does anyone have a recommendation as to the proper sealant to use
                > between the caprail and the hull? I'm not talking about the hull to
                > deck joint...I mean the 1/8" (or so) gap that is where the side of the
                > hull meets the bottom of the cap rail. Whatever was used before (it is
                > black) is hard and falling out in brittle chunks. I am about to have
                > my caprail stripped and revarnished so I want to re seal the "seam"
                > (not sure what it's called). I have had some seawater seepage in the
                > forward lockers (v berth area) when we sail into swells/waves that
                > come up to the caprail on the bow.
                >
                > Thanks
                >
                > John
                > "Journey"
                >
                >
                >
                >

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