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[NIR-DOWN] Education A Mis-conception

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  • E Macklin
    We have a couple of misconceptions here. 1. Universities were nothing more than a collection of colleges and colleges have been around for quite some time
    Message 1 of 1 , Sep 6, 2004
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      We have a couple of misconceptions here.
      1. Universities were nothing more than a collection of "colleges" and
      colleges have been around for quite some time and long before the concept
      reached the land of the Scottii ["the Irish" who were the first Celtic
      settlers from the continent to the island during the stone age as opposed to
      the Iberian Celts who arrived 500 years later from what is now Spain].
      Socrates attended a scholarium or a magistratum from which the word
      "university" is derived.
      2. Secondly Elizabeth I re-established the olde college in Dublin and called
      it Trinity College of Dublin in the 17th century initially yes for Anglicans
      and later Presbyterians a great many of whom were native Irish as members of
      the Reformation and later again for Catholics. There were social classes in
      each group and lucky for north America and Australia those with money and an
      education were the most likely to leave first. The less fortunate stayed and
      in a great many cases simply went to England to work on the farms and in the
      mills. It was this group that lead to some rather interesting and less
      fortunate tales about the poorer Irish that permeates literature to this
      The exact same problematic level of obtaining an education in Scotland
      was the same. The Protestant Reformation hit everyone at approximately the
      same time. In fact it was the mirror image on the continent but in many
      cases in reverse. If anyone was "big" on education is was the Irish and
      their collegial monks who were responsible for the re-introduction of
      Christianity back into the Continent.
      I'd be might leery about any misconception as to the education of the
      Irish as to being less than anywhere else. There were almost just as many
      Irish that joined the Reformation as any where else. And like anywhere else
      there was an economic hurdle as well that effected both groups. In fact more
      Irish obtained their BA's than did the Scots and for quite some time.
      Your sweeping and obviously un-educated statements about the Irish in
      the particular and specific are to be regretted. Lastly, and unlike the poor
      Irish classes on both sides who lived in simple little stone houses with
      straw roofs and dirt floors, that they would rather migrate than starve, it
      was the poor Scots including the Gordons, a great many who lived in sod
      huts, some at ground level, who were simply cleared off the lands [i.e.
      deported to such an extent that whole Clans now only exist in north America]
      by the "lairds of the land" few of whom were English to make way for the
      raising of large herds of sheep who were considered more valuable than the
      simple minded highlanders and lowlanders. Some of the smarter ones simply
      retraced their Irish roots and went home, bag pipe and all to, yep you
      guessed it, to Ireland.
      Eric Macklin
      in Trinitas omnium

      From: "Sandra Gordon" <sgordon817@...>
      To: <NIR-DOWN-L@...>
      Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 6:43 PM
      Subject: [NIR-DOWN] Education

      My understanding is that the Scots were very "big" on education. The
      first Universities were established in Scotland. I can't give dates off the
      top of my head, but I will check this tomorrow. I do know that my
      G-Grandfather, born in 1840, was well educated, as were his siblings in Co.
      Down. I have family letters that indicate they had a command of the
      language and their penmanship was beautiful. My G-Grandfather's brother
      finished school and served a five year apprenticeship. He then returned to
      school for a higher education - which was rare.
      From the many books I've read about the Scots-Irish in America, they all
      indicate that they were more highly educated than the average immigrant to
      the U.S.
      Always be leery of equating the Scots in Ireland from the native Irish.
      The native Irish did not have the same freedoms as the Scots. Their
      education would be very different from the Scots who settled in North
      Ireland. The native Irish had a much harder time under British rule than
      the Scots.
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