Re: Pittel -- Einhorn Disclaimer
All I am saying is that this whole burundanga/scopolamine issue blew my mind
as completely new information and (only due to the coincidence of its being
separately brought to my attention by Dr. Pittel on my mention of my
interest in the chemical physics of consciousness as a new topic of
discussion after we had finished our conversation about Ira's case) -- I
myself without any such indication from Pittel jumped to a speculation that
it is "possible" but "very unlikely due to lack of any shred of evidence"
that this drug was a factor in Einhorn's case. Pittel called me back after
reading my first post on this matter to reiterate and to request I make it
even more clear for the record anticipating folks such as yourself, Jack,
who don't read normal English words very carefully and therefore easily jump
to conclusions, that he/Pittel has no evidence or idea or information or
indication whatsoever that this burundanga/scopolamine stuff was in any way
connected to Ira's case.
MY OWN speculation on this, which I agree that Ira will probably not like at
all, is that "if and only if" Ira, on learning of this information mailed to
him yesterday, can clearly remember some incident the day following his last
meeting with Holly where he experienced missing time amnesia/delirium, which
was either witnessed by or told to someone else who would also remember
that, then this speculation might be a possible explanation for what
happened. I expect Ira will say "nuts" to the idea and will not have such a
memory. If so, end of story. If not, ie, if he goes, "Oh yeah, I do
remember the day after Holly left for the last time I woke up totally
disoriented in my apartment and at the time just thought it was due to XXX,
I mentioned it to YYY who came over that morning and saw me all weirded out
like never before but we both just wrote it off at the time and I never saw
Holly again" then and only then would this speculation of mine warrant
further investigation as a possibility in this case. In such scenario,
let's say, several alternatives seem possible -- he was dosed and she was
abducted on the spot by "someone" and killed elsewhere much later to be put
in the trunk which was emptied by parties unknown of the "secret papers" Ira
said were in it and thought were still in it and he would thereafter have no
memory other than Holly was there the night before and gone when he woke up.
In a worst case scenario this drug's effects could mean he was dosed and
given instructions to kill her by someone and he wouldn't remember anything
Isn't this a bit like sorting through various physics theories to see which
parts fit together and make sense and which don't? I'm simply saying that
the evidence now at hand is that at least from 1969 the effects of this drug
have been published in scientific literature (psychology), we know the CIA
was experimenting with many drugs including LSD in the 60's and 70's for
mind-control applications, it is reasonable to think this burundanga stuff
came to their attention at least by the time of the 1969 article I sent you,
it is reasonable to think that these experiments included testing (and
perfecting and using it -- if it worked as is now apparent more publicly)
burundanga/scopolamine, and if Ira was really such a threat to "someone" for
talking about "whatever", this drug as a "tool" COULD have been used --- at
minimum for someone coming to the door, blowing some powder in Ira's face,
abducting Holly, and who would remember what in the morning?
If this had happened would Ira the next day think, "gee something weird
happened last night but I don't remember anything but it was so weird I
won't talk to anyone about it" --- and then after the body was discovered
not mention such a weird experience because he couldn't understand it and
was not aware of burundanga effects? All pure speculation and a waste of
energy perhaps as applies to Ira's case --- but the fact remains that this
drug exists and in my opinion it is very likely that it has been used in
those mind-control drug experiments on at least a small number of subjects.
Sorry I brought this burundanga issue up in connection with Ira as it is
likely to go nowhere substantive on that matter but still this burundanga
thing is another of the interconnected issues perhaps related to Ira's case
many of which you, Jack, discount without investigation such as the still
ongoing CIA drug smuggling complicity over the last 50years which Ira
brought to attention of the PA attorney general in early 70's -- just one
possible reason why he was framed for murder to shut him up as was now
imprisoned-for-life former Green Beret Bill Tyree framed for the murder of
his wife, also coincidentally in 1979, to shut him up about the same
issue -- details at http://www.copvcia.com
If you can get a straight answer, Jack, out of any of your and Ira's
colleagues who like you were involved in secret CIA mind-control research in
the 70's, see what they have to say about burundanga and, to the extent you
can, let us know what you find out.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Sarfatti" <sarfatti@...>
To: "David Crockett Williams" <gear2000@...>
Cc: "Stephen M. Pittel Ph.D." <SMPA@...>; "Linda Loyd"
<lloyd@...>; "apbnews" <pressinquiry@...>; "Robert Moran"
<bmoran@...>; "Theresa Conroy - Phillynews"
<conroyt@...>; "Gloria Campisi" <campisg@...>; "Dan
Rubin" <Dan.Rubin@...>; "Marty Moss-Coane"
<martym@...>; "WHYY Radio NPR" <talkback@...>; "Philadelphia
Inquirer (PA)" <Inquirer.Opinion@...>; "Philadelphia Daily News"
<DailyNews.Opinion@...>; "Jonathan Takiff"
<takiffj@...>; "Jacqueline Soteropoulos"
<jsoteropoulos@...>; "Doctor Jibar Rish"
<quanta@...>; "Saul Paul Sirag" <sirag@...>; "Stephen
Schwartz" <karastjepan@...>; "Steven Levy" <steven@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: Stephan Pittel -- Ira Einhorn Disclaimer
> I do not understand this. What is your point? Say it simply. Are you
suggesting that Ira did murder Holly under the influence of this drug?
Without evidence it is idle speculation and I am pretty sure Ira would not
like it - unless it can beshown that Pittel or someone known to Pittel gave
Ira that drug at that time. Who were Ira's medical associates at that time
who would have known about such drugs?
> David Crockett Williams wrote:
> > For the record, for all those who may have received my previous post
> > Einhorn "framed" via a CIA MKUltra Columbian "Manchurian Candidate
> > the speculation of any possible connection between the
> > Burundanga/Scopolamine drug effects and any relationship to the Ira
> > case is purely my own speculation and not due to any case-specific
> > information at hand possessed by me or by Dr. Stephan Pittel who
> > on the phone brought the burundaga issue to my attention completely
> > from the Einhorn matter only after I mentioned my separate interest in
> > chemical physics of consciousness.
> > Since Dr. Pittel has offered his help if needed for Einhorn's new trial
> > his capacity as a prominent forensic psychologist who also happens to
> > been acquainted with Einhorn since 1964, it is particularly important
> > here clarify this point for the public record, that he has expressed to
> > no information or idea or prejudice, nor has he suggested any, that
> > in fact any connection in this regard -- although in my own opinion from
> > this drug's effects it is "possible", my personal opinion that as a
> > I believe experts in this field will agree with. I will be copying this
> > above referenced post to Ira and expect he will discount the idea unless
> > has a specific memory of an experience of delirium exactly in
> > relevant time-frame of the Maddux murder.
> > David Crockett Williams
> "What I cannot create. I do not understand." Richard Feynman