Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

HELP!!! IRV vs Condorcet

Expand Messages
  • tommy
    Recently some Greens and Libertarians have been involved in an email dialogue regarding voting reform, specifically re: IRV vs Condorcet. It is my
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 2, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Recently some Greens and Libertarians have been involved in an email
      dialogue regarding voting reform, specifically re: IRV vs Condorcet. It
      is my understanding that the Libertarians officially support IRV, but
      this local Libertarian group (or possibly a faction of the group) is
      strongly opposed to supporting IRV. They have used information obtained
      from the "election methods" website and email list to back up their
      views. Can anyone point me to some information that will shed some
      light on this debate? I believe the local greens would love to start a
      coalition between groups that agree on election reform, but I'm
      starting to think we are going to deadlock on this issue-- or agree to
      disagree and move on...

      Tommy
    • Markus Schulze
      Dear Tommy, the main problem of Condorcet methods is that there is no such thing as proportional representation by the Condorcet method . The main argument of
      Message 2 of 2 , Dec 4, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Tommy,

        the main problem of Condorcet methods is that there is no such thing
        as "proportional representation by the Condorcet method". The main
        argument of the Condorcet supporters against IRV is that IRV violates
        monotonicity; however, there is no proportional preferential voting
        method which has been proven to meet monotonicity.

        Therefore, it is significantly more difficult to get from Condorcet
        to proportional representation than to get from IRV to proportional
        representation. This is true especially when one has switched from
        IRV to Condorcet because of IRV's violation of monotonicity.

        You wrote (2 Dec 2002):
        > They have used information obtained from the "election methods"
        > website and email list to back up their views.

        I guess that you are talking about Mike Ossipoff. He claims that IRV
        is even worse than plurality. Therefore, he opposes every IRV campaign.
        In my opinion, this is rather short-sighted because most IRV supporters
        consider the introduction of IRV to be only the first step of an
        introduction of proportional representation.

        Markus Schulze
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.