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RE: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law

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  • Dee Berry
    Thanks for doing this, Ruth. The letter sounds very good to me and I also think it best coming from an individual at this point. Dee ... From:
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 16, 2005
      Message
      Thanks for doing this, Ruth.  The letter sounds very good to me and I also think it best coming from an individual at this point. Dee
      -----Original Message-----
      From: InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of R & F Lee
      Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 11:30 AM
      To: InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law

      I am still following up with Representative Beth Low regarding
      Missouri law on local authorities using IRV.  I had a  phone message
      from her office this week that "there is no provision in Missouri for
      any runoff elections in local or state wide elections."  That doesn't
      quite answer the question or whether there is anything in the law
      that prohibits the use of IRV so I will try to follow up with her office again this week.
       
      Additionally, David Cobb was in Kansas City this week for "Tent State
      University" at UMKC which was very successful!  I had a chance to
      talk to him about IRV and he suggested that we write directly to the
      Secretary of State to get clarification of the law.  I have drafted
      the attached letter to send to her using language David suggested
      about an advisory opinion. 
       
      I would appreciate any feedback before I send the letter about the
      wording and about whether there might be value in the letter coming
      from an individual, several individuals or a group.

      Ruth Lee
    • R & F Lee
      I have now had a reply to the letter I sent to the Secretary of State re:Misouri law on IRV. The reply is from Leslye Winslow, Deputy Secretary of State for
      Message 2 of 10 , Jun 12, 2005
         

        I have now had a reply to the letter I sent to the Secretary of State re:Misouri law on IRV.  The reply is from Leslye Winslow, Deputy Secretary of State for Elections.  Her reply states:
         
        "I am not aware of any advisory opinion with regard to whether local municipalities in Missouri have home rule authority in Missouri to use preferential voting systems such as Instant Runoff Voting.  This office does not have the authority to issue advisory opinions.  However, if you wish to obtain an advisory opinion on the issue, you may consider contacting the Missouri Attorney General's office as he may have the authority to issue such an opinion pursuant to section 27.040 RSMo."
         
        So, I now propose to write a similar letter to the Attorney General's office.
        Ruth Lee
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: R & F Lee
        Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 12:30 PM
        Subject: Re: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law

        I am still following up with Representative Beth Low regarding
        Missouri law on local authorities using IRV.  I had a  phone message
        from her office this week that "there is no provision in Missouri for
        any runoff elections in local or state wide elections."  That doesn't
        quite answer the question or whether there is anything in the law
        that prohibits the use of IRV so I will try to follow up with her office again this week.
         
        Additionally, David Cobb was in Kansas City this week for "Tent State
        University" at UMKC which was very successful!  I had a chance to
        talk to him about IRV and he suggested that we write directly to the
        Secretary of State to get clarification of the law.  I have drafted
        the attached letter to send to her using language David suggested
        about an advisory opinion. 
         
        I would appreciate any feedback before I send the letter about the
        wording and about whether there might be value in the letter coming
        from an individual, several individuals or a group.

        Ruth Lee
      • Mark Haim
        Hello Ruth & all, Thanks so much Ruth for moving this forward. Hopefully someone in the AG s office will be helpful. Please do keep us posted. All the best,
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 27, 2005
          Hello Ruth & all,
           
          Thanks so much Ruth for moving this forward. Hopefully someone in the AG's office will be helpful. Please do keep us posted.
           
          All the best,
          Mark Haim
           
          P.S.  I should mention that we in the Green Party of Central MO have been holding off on any sort of municipal campaign for IRV, pending more info on the legality, but if a positive opinion is issued, I think there is significant interest among our members in moving this forward locally.
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of R & F Lee
          Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 6:40 PM
          To: InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law

           

          I have now had a reply to the letter I sent to the Secretary of State re:Misouri law on IRV.  The reply is from Leslye Winslow, Deputy Secretary of State for Elections.  Her reply states:
           
          "I am not aware of any advisory opinion with regard to whether local municipalities in Missouri have home rule authority in Missouri to use preferential voting systems such as Instant Runoff Voting.  This office does not have the authority to issue advisory opinions.  However, if you wish to obtain an advisory opinion on the issue, you may consider contacting the Missouri Attorney General's office as he may have the authority to issue such an opinion pursuant to section 27.040 RSMo."
           
          So, I now propose to write a similar letter to the Attorney General's office.
          Ruth Lee
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: R & F Lee
          Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 12:30 PM
          Subject: Re: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law

          I am still following up with Representative Beth Low regarding
          Missouri law on local authorities using IRV.  I had a  phone message
          from her office this week that "there is no provision in Missouri for
          any runoff elections in local or state wide elections."  That doesn't
          quite answer the question or whether there is anything in the law
          that prohibits the use of IRV so I will try to follow up with her office again this week.
           
          Additionally, David Cobb was in Kansas City this week for "Tent State
          University" at UMKC which was very successful!  I had a chance to
          talk to him about IRV and he suggested that we write directly to the
          Secretary of State to get clarification of the law.  I have drafted
          the attached letter to send to her using language David suggested
          about an advisory opinion. 
           
          I would appreciate any feedback before I send the letter about the
          wording and about whether there might be value in the letter coming
          from an individual, several individuals or a group.

          Ruth Lee
        • R & F Lee
          Hi all, I am still plodding away at getting an answer to this question. I have had a reply from the Attorney General that there is currently no opinion
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 2, 2005
            Hi all,
            I am still plodding away at getting an answer to this question.  I have had a reply from the Attorney General that "there is currently no opinion written on the topic..."  He further states that he can not supply an opinion since his "office may only provide legal opinions when requested by duly elected or appointed officials of the state of Missouri upon questions of law relative to their respective office or the discharge of their duties."
             
            He suggests what we contact a private attorney.  However, I have now written to my state representative, Beth Low, to ask her if she would request an opinion from the Attorney General.  I don't know if she will do it.  If anyone else is willing to contact their state representative to get them to ask the Attorney General to issue an advisory opinion on whether local municipalities have home rule authority in Missouri to use preferential voting systems, that might help.
            Ruth Lee
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: R & F Lee
            Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 6:39 PM
            Subject: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law

             

            I have now had a reply to the letter I sent to the Secretary of State re:Misouri law on IRV.  The reply is from Leslye Winslow, Deputy Secretary of State for Elections.  Her reply states:
             
            "I am not aware of any advisory opinion with regard to whether local municipalities in Missouri have home rule authority in Missouri to use preferential voting systems such as Instant Runoff Voting.  This office does not have the authority to issue advisory opinions.  However, if you wish to obtain an advisory opinion on the issue, you may consider contacting the Missouri Attorney General's office as he may have the authority to issue such an opinion pursuant to section 27.040 RSMo."
             
            So, I now propose to write a similar letter to the Attorney General's office.
            Ruth Lee
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: R & F Lee
            Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 12:30 PM
            Subject: Re: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law

            I am still following up with Representative Beth Low regarding
            Missouri law on local authorities using IRV.  I had a  phone message
            from her office this week that "there is no provision in Missouri for
            any runoff elections in local or state wide elections."  That doesn't
            quite answer the question or whether there is anything in the law
            that prohibits the use of IRV so I will try to follow up with her office again this week.
             
            Additionally, David Cobb was in Kansas City this week for "Tent State
            University" at UMKC which was very successful!  I had a chance to
            talk to him about IRV and he suggested that we write directly to the
            Secretary of State to get clarification of the law.  I have drafted
            the attached letter to send to her using language David suggested
            about an advisory opinion. 
             
            I would appreciate any feedback before I send the letter about the
            wording and about whether there might be value in the letter coming
            from an individual, several individuals or a group.

            Ruth Lee
          • Mark Haim
            Hello Ruth & all, Ruth, thanks so much for keeping plugging on this. If you don t get a positive response from Beth Low (do you know her? is she receptive?)
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 11, 2005
              Hello Ruth & all,
               
              Ruth, thanks so much for keeping plugging on this. If you don't get a positive response from Beth Low (do you know her? is she receptive?) please let us know. I can ask my state rep, Judy Baker, but if the base is covered, no point in duplicating effort.
               
              I hope to see you soon, perhaps at the Greens state meeting Saturday.
               
              Peace,
              Mark Haim
               
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of R & F Lee
              Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:07 PM
              To: InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law

              Hi all,
              I am still plodding away at getting an answer to this question.  I have had a reply from the Attorney General that "there is currently no opinion written on the topic..."  He further states that he can not supply an opinion since his "office may only provide legal opinions when requested by duly elected or appointed officials of the state of Missouri upon questions of law relative to their respective office or the discharge of their duties."
               
              He suggests what we contact a private attorney.  However, I have now written to my state representative, Beth Low, to ask her if she would request an opinion from the Attorney General.  I don't know if she will do it.  If anyone else is willing to contact their state representative to get them to ask the Attorney General to issue an advisory opinion on whether local municipalities have home rule authority in Missouri to use preferential voting systems, that might help.
              Ruth Lee
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: R & F Lee
              Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 6:39 PM
              Subject: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law

               

              I have now had a reply to the letter I sent to the Secretary of State re:Misouri law on IRV.  The reply is from Leslye Winslow, Deputy Secretary of State for Elections.  Her reply states:
               
              "I am not aware of any advisory opinion with regard to whether local municipalities in Missouri have home rule authority in Missouri to use preferential voting systems such as Instant Runoff Voting.  This office does not have the authority to issue advisory opinions.  However, if you wish to obtain an advisory opinion on the issue, you may consider contacting the Missouri Attorney General's office as he may have the authority to issue such an opinion pursuant to section 27.040 RSMo."
               
              So, I now propose to write a similar letter to the Attorney General's office.
              Ruth Lee
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: R & F Lee
              Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 12:30 PM
              Subject: Re: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law

              I am still following up with Representative Beth Low regarding
              Missouri law on local authorities using IRV.  I had a  phone message
              from her office this week that "there is no provision in Missouri for
              any runoff elections in local or state wide elections."  That doesn't
              quite answer the question or whether there is anything in the law
              that prohibits the use of IRV so I will try to follow up with her office again this week.
               
              Additionally, David Cobb was in Kansas City this week for "Tent State
              University" at UMKC which was very successful!  I had a chance to
              talk to him about IRV and he suggested that we write directly to the
              Secretary of State to get clarification of the law.  I have drafted
              the attached letter to send to her using language David suggested
              about an advisory opinion. 
               
              I would appreciate any feedback before I send the letter about the
              wording and about whether there might be value in the letter coming
              from an individual, several individuals or a group.

              Ruth Lee
            • Jason Murphy
              Hey Mark-- Jeannette Mott Oxford, a representive here in Missouri, told me she thought Beth Low would sponsor such a bill but she said you can contact her
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 25, 2005
                Hey Mark-- Jeannette Mott Oxford, a representive here in Missouri, told me
                she thought Beth Low would sponsor such a bill but she said you can contact
                her about it if you wish. She's at:

                isaiah-58@...

                Of course, you know that not all progressives support election reform.
                Jeannette does so she could come in handy. --bjm


                From: "Mark Haim" <mhaim@...>
                Reply-To: InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com
                To: <InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: RE: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law
                Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:54:32 -0500

                Hello Ruth & all,

                Ruth, thanks so much for keeping plugging on this. If you don't get a
                positive response from Beth Low (do you know her? is she receptive?) please
                let us know. I can ask my state rep, Judy Baker, but if the base is covered,
                no point in duplicating effort.

                I hope to see you soon, perhaps at the Greens state meeting Saturday.

                Peace,
                Mark Haim


                -----Original Message-----
                From: InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of R & F Lee
                Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:07 PM
                To: InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law


                Hi all,
                I am still plodding away at getting an answer to this question. I have had
                a reply from the Attorney General that "there is currently no opinion
                written on the topic..." He further states that he can not supply an
                opinion since his "office may only provide legal opinions when requested by
                duly elected or appointed officials of the state of Missouri upon questions
                of law relative to their respective office or the discharge of their
                duties."

                He suggests what we contact a private attorney. However, I have now written
                to my state representative, Beth Low, to ask her if she would request an
                opinion from the Attorney General. I don't know if she will do it. If
                anyone else is willing to contact their state representative to get them to
                ask the Attorney General to issue an advisory opinion on whether local
                municipalities have home rule authority in Missouri to use preferential
                voting systems, that might help.
                Ruth Lee

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: R & F Lee
                To: InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 6:39 PM
                Subject: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law





                I have now had a reply to the letter I sent to the Secretary of State
                re:Misouri law on IRV. The reply is from Leslye Winslow, Deputy Secretary
                of State for Elections. Her reply states:

                "I am not aware of any advisory opinion with regard to whether local
                municipalities in Missouri have home rule authority in Missouri to use
                preferential voting systems such as Instant Runoff Voting. This office does
                not have the authority to issue advisory opinions. However, if you wish to
                obtain an advisory opinion on the issue, you may consider contacting the
                Missouri Attorney General's office as he may have the authority to issue
                such an opinion pursuant to section 27.040 RSMo."

                So, I now propose to write a similar letter to the Attorney General's
                office.
                Ruth Lee
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: R & F Lee
                To: InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 12:30 PM
                Subject: Re: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law


                I am still following up with Representative Beth Low regarding
                Missouri law on local authorities using IRV. I had a phone message
                from her office this week that "there is no provision in Missouri for
                any runoff elections in local or state wide elections." That doesn't
                quite answer the question or whether there is anything in the law
                that prohibits the use of IRV so I will try to follow up with her
                office again this week.

                Additionally, David Cobb was in Kansas City this week for "Tent State
                University" at UMKC which was very successful! I had a chance to
                talk to him about IRV and he suggested that we write directly to the
                Secretary of State to get clarification of the law. I have drafted
                the attached letter to send to her using language David suggested
                about an advisory opinion.

                I would appreciate any feedback before I send the letter about the
                wording and about whether there might be value in the letter coming
                from an individual, several individuals or a group.

                Ruth Lee


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              • R & F Lee
                Hi All, I wrote to my State Representative Beth Low several weeks ago asking her to request an advisory opinion on local authority use of IRV in Missouri. I
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 25, 2005
                  Hi All,
                  I wrote to my State Representative Beth Low several weeks ago asking her to request an advisory opinion on local authority use of IRV in Missouri.  I have now followed up with her and she said that she "will need to discuss the request with party leadership."  Apparently there is a meeting on September 6-8.  I don't think she will pursue this independently, and I have no idea how the party leadership will respond. 
                   
                  So I am now writing to suggest that others might wish to pursue this matter in a similar manner with their own state representative.  Three of you have already indicated some willingness to do this (thank you Mark, Jason and Eric).
                   
                  Attached is a generic form of the letter I sent to Beth Low.  You can just fill in the bold and bracketed parts and send it, or redraft it as you see fit.  The important part that shouldn't be changed are the three questions for the Attorney General.
                   
                  Maybe if a number of representatives have received this request before their September 6-8 meeting, it will have more of an impact.  Although it's hard to know what that impact might be, whether it will scare them off or prompt them to do something.
                   
                  Please let us all know if you do send the letter and if you get any response.
                  Ruth Lee
                • R & F Lee
                  I originally sent this a week ago but it doesn t appear to have gone out so I am resending. Ruth ... From: R & F Lee To: InstantRunoffMO@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 1, 2005
                    I originally sent this a week ago but it doesn't appear to have gone out so I am resending.
                    Ruth
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: R & F Lee
                    Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:10 PM
                    Subject: Re: [InstantRunoffMO] clarifying Missouri law

                    Hi All,
                    I wrote to my State Representative Beth Low several weeks ago asking her to request an advisory opinion on local authority use of IRV in Missouri.  I have now followed up with her and she said that she "will need to discuss the request with party leadership."  Apparently there is a meeting on September 6-8.  I don't think she will pursue this independently, and I have no idea how the party leadership will respond. 
                     
                    So I am now writing to suggest that others might wish to pursue this matter in a similar manner with their own state representative.  Three of you have already indicated some willingness to do this (thank you Mark, Jason and Eric).
                     
                    Attached is a generic form of the letter I sent to Beth Low.  You can just fill in the bold and bracketed parts and send it, or redraft it as you see fit.  The important part that shouldn't be changed are the three questions for the Attorney General.
                     
                    Maybe if a number of representatives have received this request before their September 6-8 meeting, it will have more of an impact.  Although it's hard to know what that impact might be, whether it will scare them off or prompt them to do something.
                     
                    Please let us all know if you do send the letter and if you get any response.
                    Ruth Lee
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