Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Newbie questions

Expand Messages
  • Brian Woodruff
    Hello! I am a newcomer to this list, and interested in promoting the use of IRV for Mayor and City Council elections in Fort Collins. Currently we use
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 23, 2003
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello!

      I am a newcomer to this list, and interested in promoting the use of IRV
      for Mayor and City Council elections in Fort Collins.

      Currently we use plurality elections for both the Mayor (at large) and
      Council members (in districts). In the past 8 years (four election cycles)
      we had a total of 16 races. 44% of the races had 3 or more candidates, and
      31% of the races were won with less than 50% of the vote. In one case the
      Mayor was elected with a 29% plurality.

      The City Clerk has told me there is a major barrier to IRV. The City is
      constrained to use voting equipment that has been approved by the Colorado
      Secretary of State, and no voting equipment has been approved for
      ranked-choice voting. Is there a way to surmount this problem?

      I understand that City of Denver has looked into IRV...could someone point
      me to the results of that effort?

      Many thanks for helping with newbie questions.

      ================
      Brian Woodruff
      2825 Dixon Creek Ln
      Ft Collins, CO 80526
      970-224-5443
      bwoodruff@...
      ================
    • Dpolhill@aol.com
      Hi Brian, I have not heard of this voting equipment mandate before. I bet if you check into it, even if it is true you will find a clause that says or
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 24, 2003
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Brian,
        I have not heard of this voting equipment mandate before.  I bet if you check into it, even if it is true you will find a clause that says "or approved equal" or "equal or better."  It is rare that the state preempts local control. 

        You may be right about Denver, but I do not know any details.  Obviously the city has an incentive to save money and IRV does that for them.  So IRV is not quite the conflict of interest issue for politicians that other issues, like term limits, are ... and there is a chance you can get them to act.  Colorado's coalition of third parties has interest in IRV and may be willing to help you if you decide to go the initiative petition route. 

        Thank you for your leadership.
        Dennis Polhill
        Golden, Colorado

        In a message dated 6/23/2003 11:02:27 PM Mountain Daylight Time, bwoodruff@... writes:

        I am a newcomer to this list, and interested in promoting the use of IRV
        for Mayor and City Council elections in Fort Collins.

        Currently we use plurality elections for both the Mayor (at large) and
        Council members (in districts).  In the past 8 years (four election cycles)
        we had a total of 16 races.  44% of the races had 3 or more candidates, and
        31% of the races were won with less than 50% of the vote.  In one case the
        Mayor was elected with a 29% plurality.

        The City Clerk has told me there is a major barrier to IRV.  The City is
        constrained to use voting equipment that has been approved by the Colorado
        Secretary of State, and no voting equipment has been approved for
        ranked-choice voting.  Is there a way to surmount this problem?

        I understand that City of Denver has looked into IRV...could someone point
        me to the results of that effort?

        Many thanks for helping with newbie questions.


      • Brian Woodruff
        Thanks for your reply, Dennis. To clarify whether the Secretary of States certification is necessary for any system used by the City, CRS 1-5-608.5(1)(c)
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 24, 2003
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks for your reply, Dennis.

          To clarify whether the Secretary of States certification is necessary for any system used by the City,
          CRS 1-5-608.5(1)(c) states, "No electronic voting device or electronic voting system shall be used in any public election in this state unless it has been certified by the secretary of state following successful qualification testing by a recognized independent testing authority."

          According to the City Clerk's office, as of  5 May 03 the Secretary of State had only 4 election vendors certified to do business in Colorado.  They are:
              Diebold Election Systems (fka Global Election Systems)
               Hart Intercivic
               Sequoia Voting Systems
               Avante International Technology, Inc.
          It was not known whether any currently have systems that do instant runoff voting.
          The Secretary of State confirmed that NO ONE in Colorado is using IRV, and the SOS doesn't encourage it.

          I wonder what can IRV activists do to get past this hurdle?

          -- Brian

          At 01:10 PM 24-06-03 -0400, you wrote:
          Hi Brian,
          I have not heard of this voting equipment mandate before.  I bet if you check into it, even if it is true you will find a clause that says "or approved equal" or "equal or better."  It is rare that the state preempts local control. 

          You may be right about Denver, but I do not know any details.  Obviously the city has an incentive to save money and IRV does that for them.  So IRV is not quite the conflict of interest issue for politicians that other issues, like term limits, are ... and there is a chance you can get them to act.  Colorado's coalition of third parties has interest in IRV and may be willing to help you if you decide to go the initiative petition route. 

          Thank you for your leadership.
          Dennis Polhill
          Golden, Colorado

          In a message dated 6/23/2003 11:02:27 PM Mountain Daylight Time, bwoodruff@... writes:

          I am a newcomer to this list, and interested in promoting the use of IRV
          for Mayor and City Council elections in Fort Collins.

          Currently we use plurality elections for both the Mayor (at large) and
          Council members (in districts).  In the past 8 years (four election cycles)
          we had a total of 16 races.  44% of the races had 3 or more candidates, and
          31% of the races were won with less than 50% of the vote.  In one case the
          Mayor was elected with a 29% plurality.

          The City Clerk has told me there is a major barrier to IRV.  The City is
          constrained to use voting equipment that has been approved by the Colorado
          Secretary of State, and no voting equipment has been approved for
          ranked-choice voting.  Is there a way to surmount this problem?

          I understand that City of Denver has looked into IRV...could someone point
          me to the results of that effort?

          Many thanks for helping with newbie questions.



          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          36541fac.jpg 
          36542029.jpg

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          InstantRunoffCO-unsubscribe@egroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

          ================
          Brian Woodruff
          2825 Dixon Creek Ln
          Ft Collins, CO 80526
          970-224-5443
          bwoodruff@...
          ================

        • Dpolhill@aol.com
          Hi Brian, I am impressed with what you have learned. Please keep up your leadership. Leadership is the key to everything. My read on what you say below is ...
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 24, 2003
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Brian,
            I am impressed with what you have learned.  Please keep up your leadership.  Leadership is the key to everything. 

            My read on what you say below is ... you don't know that the SOS is opposed or in favor.  I would assume she probably has no opinion.  Then, there would be two possible paths:  one, to enlarge the list of vendors or two, to determine whether any of the 4 vendors offer IRV hardware.  My guess is the 4 are probably the bigger vendors in the field and you have a good probability that one or more offer IRV hardware.  If this bears out, then we are back to square one:  how to get it done ... the politics ... selling it to F/C or Denver or wherever will be the first experiment in Colorado.

            Also, I think it should be fairly easy to find out what a run off election costs F/C.  The Clerk probably knows.  Just ask.  Then you have a hard factual indisputable benefit to start off with.  If anything, it probably understates costs because governments are notorious for not accounting for all costs ... but you don't want to go down that road right now. 

            In short, Colorado statute does not prohibit IRV, although the administration of the statute may impose a small obstacle.  You are on the right track.  Keep going.

            Thank you for your leadership.
            Dennis Polhill

            In a message dated 6/24/2003 12:16:05 PM Mountain Daylight Time, bwoodruff@... writes:

            To clarify whether the Secretary of States certification is necessary for any system used by the City,
            CRS 1-5-608.5(1)(c) states, "No electronic voting device or electronic voting system shall be used in any public election in this state unless it has been certified by the secretary of state following successful qualification testing by a recognized independent testing authority."

            According to the City Clerk's office, as of  5 May 03 the Secretary of State had only 4 election vendors certified to do business in Colorado.  They are:
               Diebold Election Systems (fka Global Election Systems)
                Hart Intercivic
                Sequoia Voting Systems
                Avante International Technology, Inc.
            It was not known whether any currently have systems that do instant runoff voting.
            The Secretary of State confirmed that NO ONE in Colorado is using IRV, and the SOS doesn't encourage it.

            I wonder what can IRV activists do to get past this hurdle?


          • David Aitken
            ... When I was on the SOS Elections Task Force in 2001, I asked several vendors if they provided IRV capabilities. All said NO. ... In Denver. a runoff
            Message 5 of 5 , Jun 24, 2003
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              At 03:10 PM 6/24/03 -0400, you wrote:
              >Hi Brian,
              >I am impressed with what you have learned. Please keep up your
              >leadership. Leadership is the key to everything.
              >
              >My read on what you say below is ... you don't know that the SOS is
              >opposed or in favor. I would assume she probably has no opinion. Then,
              >there would be two possible paths: one, to enlarge the list of vendors or
              >two, to determine whether any of the 4 vendors offer IRV hardware. My
              >guess is the 4 are probably the bigger vendors in the field and you have a
              >good probability that one or more offer IRV hardware. If this bears out,
              >then we are back to square one: how to get it done ... the politics ...
              >selling it to F/C or Denver or wherever will be the first experiment in
              >Colorado.

              When I was on the SOS Elections Task Force in 2001, I asked several vendors
              if they provided IRV capabilities. All said NO.

              >Also, I think it should be fairly easy to find out what a run off election
              >costs F/C. The Clerk probably knows. Just ask. Then you have a hard
              >factual indisputable benefit to start off with. If anything, it probably
              >understates costs because governments are notorious for not accounting for
              >all costs ... but you don't want to go down that road right now.

              In Denver. a runoff election costs about $250,000 - $300,000. Recently, the
              Rocky Mountain News editorialized against IRV.

              http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/opinion/article/0,1299,DRMN_38_1948220,00.html

              David Aitken

              >In short, Colorado statute does not prohibit IRV, although the
              >administration of the statute may impose a small obstacle. You are on the
              >right track. Keep going.
              >
              >Thank you for your leadership.
              >Dennis Polhill
              >
              >In a message dated 6/24/2003 12:16:05 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
              >bwoodruff@... writes:
              >
              >>To clarify whether the Secretary of States certification is necessary for
              >>any system used by the City,
              >>CRS 1-5-608.5(1)(c) states, "No electronic voting device or electronic
              >>voting system shall be used in any public election in this state unless
              >>it has been certified by the secretary of state following successful
              >>qualification testing by a recognized independent testing authority."
              >>
              >>According to the City Clerk's office, as of 5 May 03 the Secretary of
              >>State had only 4 election vendors certified to do business in
              >>Colorado. They are:
              >> Diebold Election Systems (fka Global Election Systems)
              >> Hart Intercivic
              >> Sequoia Voting Systems
              >> Avante International Technology, Inc.
              >>It was not known whether any currently have systems that do instant
              >>runoff voting.
              >>The Secretary of State confirmed that NO ONE in Colorado is using IRV,
              >>and the SOS doesn't encourage it.
              >>
              >>I wonder what can IRV activists do to get past this hurdle?
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ><http://rd.yahoo.com/M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705016061:HM/A=1564416/R=0/SIG=11ti81skc/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60164797&partid=3170658>88815c.jpg
              >
              >88819c.jpg
              >
              >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >InstantRunoffCO-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
              ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.