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Shall we introduce ourselves?

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  • Dan Johnson-Weinberger <proportionalrepr
    Hi Colorado IRV folks, This is a great time to organize for IRV. I understand Denver uses expensive runoff elections, and that the legislature is going into
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 17, 2002
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      Hi Colorado IRV folks,

      This is a great time to organize for IRV. I understand Denver uses
      expensive runoff elections, and that the legislature is going into
      session next month. Shall we introduce ourselves to try to get to
      work?

      Dan Johnson-Weinberger
      Center for Voting and Democracy
      Chicago, Illinois
      312.933.4890
    • Dpolhill@aol.com
      In a message dated 12/17/2002 12:32:33 PM Mountain Standard Time, ... Hi Dan, You are correct about Denver. There is a successful 3rd party coalition in
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 17, 2002
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        In a message dated 12/17/2002 12:32:33 PM Mountain Standard Time, proportionalrepresentation@... writes:

        This is a great time to organize for IRV. I understand Denver uses
        expensive runoff elections, and that the legislature is going into
        session next month. Shall we introduce ourselves to try to get to
        work?


        Hi Dan,
        You are correct about Denver.  There is a successful 3rd party coalition in Colorado that has gotten several bills past in the last few years liberalizing ballot access slightly.  I have not attended meetings recently, but understand that they have made a refreshed commitment to work together for reforms and IRV was an idea discussed but not rejected. 

        You are correct about the City of Denver.  These election occur in the spring.  There are always a dozen candidates (probably 2 dozen this year due to term limits), which guarantees that no one gets a majority and there has to be a run off ... doubling Denver's cost of election. 

        I have suggested that supporters of IRV advance it by city petition (every city in Colorado has initiative rights).  I believe a Denver petition would require about 9,000 or so signatures.  Achievable.

        I am,
        Dennis Polhill
        Co-Chairman of the Colorado Term Limits Coalition and Senior Fellow of the Independence Institute (think tank) and a few other things.
        Golden, Colorado

        ps ... copied is Dave Ottke, Executive Director of CTLC who has attended several of the third party coalition meetings.  And Doug Campbell, my co-propenent on the Petition Rights Amendment, an initiative designed to protect the petition process from infringement by politicians. 
      • Marc Cittone
        I m wondering what group in the Denver area would sponsor an initiative? Does CTLC do these kinds of things at the city level? I don t think Common Cause
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 19, 2002
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          I'm wondering what group in the Denver area would sponsor an initiative? Does CTLC do these kinds of things at the city level? I don't think Common Cause Colorado has made any commitments to IRV or PR reforms.  I'd certainly be willing to volunteer some time gathering signiatures.
           
          Marc 
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 5:37 PM
          Subject: Re: [InstantRunoffCO] Shall we introduce ourselves?

          In a message dated 12/17/2002 12:32:33 PM Mountain Standard Time, proportionalrepresentation@... writes:

          This is a great time to organize for IRV. I understand Denver uses
          expensive runoff elections, and that the legislature is going into
          session next month. Shall we introduce ourselves to try to get to
          work?


          Hi Dan,
          You are correct about Denver.  There is a successful 3rd party coalition in Colorado that has gotten several bills past in the last few years liberalizing ballot access slightly.  I have not attended meetings recently, but understand that they have made a refreshed commitment to work together for reforms and IRV was an idea discussed but not rejected. 

          You are correct about the City of Denver.  These election occur in the spring.  There are always a dozen candidates (probably 2 dozen this year due to term limits), which guarantees that no one gets a majority and there has to be a run off ... doubling Denver's cost of election. 

          I have suggested that supporters of IRV advance it by city petition (every city in Colorado has initiative rights).  I believe a Denver petition would require about 9,000 or so signatures.  Achievable.

          I am,
          Dennis Polhill
          Co-Chairman of the Colorado Term Limits Coalition and Senior Fellow of the Independence Institute (think tank) and a few other things.
          Golden, Colorado

          ps ... copied is Dave Ottke, Executive Director of CTLC who has attended several of the third party coalition meetings.  And Doug Campbell, my co-propenent on the Petition Rights Amendment, an initiative designed to protect the petition process from infringement by politicians. 

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          InstantRunoffCO-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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        • Dpolhill@aol.com
          In a message dated 12/19/2002 7:01:07 PM Mountain Standard Time, ... Hi Marc et al, CTLC is the term limits group and it only does term limits. Once there is
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 19, 2002
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            In a message dated 12/19/2002 7:01:07 PM Mountain Standard Time, mcittone@... writes:

            I'm wondering what group in the Denver area would sponsor an initiative? Does CTLC do these kinds of things at the city level? I don't think Common Cause Colorado has made any commitments to IRV or PR reforms.  I'd certainly be willing to volunteer some time gathering signiatures.
             
            Marc


            Hi Marc et al,
            CTLC is the term limits group and it only does term limits.  Once there is and active IRV group, CTLC will make the IRV group known to its members.  Some will have interest in helping IRV.  However, I think this is the cart before the horse.  Plenty of folks will have interest once there is some action.  I think the previous suggestion is legitimate.  That is, we focus on some local government and Denver is as good as any. 

            1)  Is there anyone in this group who can confirm the city of Denver petition procedures?  (i.e. # of signatures; due date to get on the spring ballot; when is the spring ballot?)
            2)  Is there anyone in this group who can comment on the potential interest of an incumbent Denver citycouncil person or candidate who may wish to pick up the mantel of this issue and advance it legislatively in the city of Denver?
            3)  The new 3rd party coalition has shown interest in taking up this issue.  Can someone approach them soon and offer them the first right of refusal to take up leadership?  If they cannot/do not say "Yes" within a reasonable amount of time, then we will set up a new group(s) for the sole purpose of achieving IRV.  Who knows how quickly they can make a decision?  I think their name is CCIP.  Confirmation?  What does CCIP stand for?  Is  CCIP an official entity?
            4)  If CCIP decides to take up leadership, they will have to be responsible for everything.  Initial activities obviously include doing a lot of information collecting quickly, coalition building (to get a large number of non-partisan good government groups on board), and raise funds.
            5)  I assume the same IRV proposal that just passed in San Francisco can be used directly ... without any modifications.  Who can confirm this? 
            6)  Is there anyone familiar with the City of Denver Election Code?  Can you figure out what section of the code needs to be changed and whether it is charter or ordinance.
            7)  Virtually the entire Denver political establishment will turn over this spring due to term limits.  There will be a lot of turmoil and confusion as new faces surface with new ideas.  This is a gigantic opportunity to advance the issue. 

            This group has 31 names in it.  I recognize a couple; who are the rest; are we mostly Colorado people?  Do we care to move this? 

            Enough for now.
            Dennis Polhill
          • David Aitken
            ... I think it s too late to get on the May ballot, but I m not familiar with the charter requirements. The number of signatures is, I think, 5 percent of the
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 19, 2002
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              At 10:12 PM 12/19/02 -0500, you wrote:
              >In a message dated 12/19/2002 7:01:07 PM Mountain Standard Time,
              >mcittone@... writes:
              >
              >>I'm wondering what group in the Denver area would sponsor an initiative?
              >>Does CTLC do these kinds of things at the city level? I don't think
              >>Common Cause Colorado has made any commitments to IRV or PR reforms. I'd
              >>certainly be willing to volunteer some time gathering signiatures.
              >>
              >>Marc
              >
              >
              >Hi Marc et al,
              >CTLC is the term limits group and it only does term limits. Once there is
              >and active IRV group, CTLC will make the IRV group known to its
              >members. Some will have interest in helping IRV. However, I think this
              >is the cart before the horse. Plenty of folks will have interest once
              >there is some action. I think the previous suggestion is
              >legitimate. That is, we focus on some local government and Denver is as
              >good as any.
              >
              >1) Is there anyone in this group who can confirm the city of Denver
              >petition procedures? (i.e. # of signatures; due date to get on the spring
              >ballot; when is the spring ballot?)

              I think it's too late to get on the May ballot, but I'm not familiar with
              the charter requirements. The number of signatures is, I think, 5 percent
              of the votes cast for mayor in the last election. Right now that's less
              than 3,000 but it will increase because of the hotly contested mayor's race.

              >2) Is there anyone in this group who can comment on the potential
              >interest of an incumbent Denver citycouncil person or candidate who may
              >wish to pick up the mantel of this issue and advance it legislatively in
              >the city of Denver?

              If I run for Election Commission, I'd be willing to include IRV as one of
              my issues.

              >3) The new 3rd party coalition has shown interest in taking up this
              >issue. Can someone approach them soon and offer them the first right of
              >refusal to take up leadership? If they cannot/do not say "Yes" within a
              >reasonable amount of time, then we will set up a new group(s) for the sole
              >purpose of achieving IRV. Who knows how quickly they can make a
              >decision? I think their name is CCIP. Confirmation? What does CCIP
              >stand for? Is CCIP an official entity?

              CCIPP is the Colorado Coalition of Independent Political Parties. What do
              you mean by "official"?

              >4) If CCIP decides to take up leadership, they will have to be
              >responsible for everything. Initial activities obviously include doing a
              >lot of information collecting quickly, coalition building (to get a large
              >number of non-partisan good government groups on board), and raise funds.
              >5) I assume the same IRV proposal that just passed in San Francisco can
              >be used directly ... without any modifications. Who can confirm this?
              >6) Is there anyone familiar with the City of Denver Election Code? Can
              >you figure out what section of the code needs to be changed and whether it
              >is charter or ordinance.
              >7) Virtually the entire Denver political establishment will turn over
              >this spring due to term limits. There will be a lot of turmoil and
              >confusion as new faces surface with new ideas. This is a gigantic
              >opportunity to advance the issue.
              >
              >This group has 31 names in it. I recognize a couple; who are the rest;
              >are we mostly Colorado people? Do we care to move this?
              >
              >Enough for now.
              >Dennis Polhill
              >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >InstantRunoffCO-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
              ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • Victor A Good
              All, I met with Jared Polis before I left town for the holidays and he will join with us in our IRV efforts. As we discussed at the last CCIPP meeting we
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 20, 2002
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                All,

                I met with Jared Polis before I left town for the holidays and he will
                join with us in our IRV efforts. As we discussed at the last CCIPP
                meeting we agreed to help David with his campaign and Chris Wilson as
                well with IRV on their platform. Jared would be a great addition to this
                effort as he spent one heck of a lot of money on the failed attempt at
                same day voter registration. As a Democrat he may be able to bring in
                some major party support, including my recent opponent who was whining to
                me about costing him the election the new 7th CD- this would remove that
                ability to whine!

                No one has officially checked to verify the time line for getting the
                initiative on the Denver ballot- Jared seemed to think that there was
                still time.

                I'm out of the state until February but am checking e-mail with a very
                slow lap top- so I'm trying to get out of most e-mail reflectors.-

                good luck and make sure Chris Wilson is in on these efforts
                (sonarweb@...) as he is the new chairman of the Colorado Reform
                Party. Also Logan Goolsby (calain_@...)- party treasurer.

                happy holidays,

                Victor Good


                On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 21:36:02 -0700 David Aitken <daitken@...> writes:
                > At 10:12 PM 12/19/02 -0500, you wrote:
                > >In a message dated 12/19/2002 7:01:07 PM Mountain Standard Time,
                > >mcittone@... writes:
                > >
                > >>I'm wondering what group in the Denver area would sponsor an
                > initiative?
                > >>Does CTLC do these kinds of things at the city level? I don't
                > think
                > >>Common Cause Colorado has made any commitments to IRV or PR
                > reforms. I'd
                > >>certainly be willing to volunteer some time gathering signiatures.
                > >>
                > >>Marc
                > >
                > >
                > >Hi Marc et al,
                > >CTLC is the term limits group and it only does term limits. Once
                > there is
                > >and active IRV group, CTLC will make the IRV group known to its
                > >members. Some will have interest in helping IRV. However, I think
                > this
                > >is the cart before the horse. Plenty of folks will have interest
                > once
                > >there is some action. I think the previous suggestion is
                > >legitimate. That is, we focus on some local government and Denver
                > is as
                > >good as any.
                > >
                > >1) Is there anyone in this group who can confirm the city of
                > Denver
                > >petition procedures? (i.e. # of signatures; due date to get on the
                > spring
                > >ballot; when is the spring ballot?)
                >
                > I think it's too late to get on the May ballot, but I'm not familiar
                > with
                > the charter requirements. The number of signatures is, I think, 5
                > percent
                > of the votes cast for mayor in the last election. Right now that's
                > less
                > than 3,000 but it will increase because of the hotly contested
                > mayor's race.
                >
                > >2) Is there anyone in this group who can comment on the potential
                > >interest of an incumbent Denver citycouncil person or candidate who
                > may
                > >wish to pick up the mantel of this issue and advance it
                > legislatively in
                > >the city of Denver?
                >
                > If I run for Election Commission, I'd be willing to include IRV as
                > one of
                > my issues.
                >
                > >3) The new 3rd party coalition has shown interest in taking up
                > this
                > >issue. Can someone approach them soon and offer them the first
                > right of
                > >refusal to take up leadership? If they cannot/do not say "Yes"
                > within a
                > >reasonable amount of time, then we will set up a new group(s) for
                > the sole
                > >purpose of achieving IRV. Who knows how quickly they can make a
                > >decision? I think their name is CCIP. Confirmation? What does
                > CCIP
                > >stand for? Is CCIP an official entity?
                >
                > CCIPP is the Colorado Coalition of Independent Political Parties.
                > What do
                > you mean by "official"?
                >
                > >4) If CCIP decides to take up leadership, they will have to be
                > >responsible for everything. Initial activities obviously include
                > doing a
                > >lot of information collecting quickly, coalition building (to get a
                > large
                > >number of non-partisan good government groups on board), and raise
                > funds.
                > >5) I assume the same IRV proposal that just passed in San
                > Francisco can
                > >be used directly ... without any modifications. Who can confirm
                > this?
                > >6) Is there anyone familiar with the City of Denver Election Code?
                > Can
                > >you figure out what section of the code needs to be changed and
                > whether it
                > >is charter or ordinance.
                > >7) Virtually the entire Denver political establishment will turn
                > over
                > >this spring due to term limits. There will be a lot of turmoil and
                >
                > >confusion as new faces surface with new ideas. This is a gigantic
                > >opportunity to advance the issue.
                > >
                > >This group has 31 names in it. I recognize a couple; who are the
                > rest;
                > >are we mostly Colorado people? Do we care to move this?
                > >
                > >Enough for now.
                > >Dennis Polhill
                > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > >InstantRunoffCO-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > InstantRunoffCO-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >


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              • Davidottke@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/20/2002 9:09:54 AM Mountain Standard Time, ... Strange. I never realized the two majors automatically had pre-eminent right to all the
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 20, 2002
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                  In a message dated 12/20/2002 9:09:54 AM Mountain Standard Time, vjgood@... writes:

                  I met with Jared Polis before I left town for the holidays and he will
                  join with us in our IRV efforts.  As we discussed at the last CCIPP
                  meeting we agreed to help David with his campaign and Chris Wilson as
                  well with IRV on their platform.  Jared would be a great addition to this
                  effort as he spent one heck of a lot of money on the failed attempt at
                  same day voter registration.  As a Democrat he may be able to bring in
                  some major party support, including my recent opponent who was whining to
                  me about costing him the election the new 7th CD- this would remove that
                  ability to whine!

                         Strange. I never realized the two majors automatically had pre-eminent right to all the votes. It sounds to me as though Feely stole the election from you, Victor. But that thinking is perfect argument for IRV. The more support we can get from Democrats and Republicans the better our chances of success.

                  No one has officially checked to verify the time line for getting the
                  initiative on the Denver ballot- Jared seemed to think that there was
                  still time.

                         I reseached the Denver initiative process several years ago. I'll have to see if I can find my research. I remember this much. For a November election you need to start gathering signatures in February or March because of the time they give someone to challenge the signatures, followed by the time allowed for a ruling on that, etc. So forget a May election. The only possibility is if someone knows a council member. A referred measure can be done in a shorter period of time. That would be the easiest way anyway, if a council member can be convinced.
                         I thought there was a CCIPP meeting in December. If so, I must have written the time down wrong. Is there a meeting in January. If so when and where. I'll try to make contact with Colorado Common Cause, League of Woman Voters, and CoPIRG to see what support we can get.
                  David Ottke
                • Ben Raizen
                  This is Ben Raizen speaking. I spoke with some people in the CO Coalition of Independent Political Parties. They are strongly in favor of the IRV idea, but
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 20, 2002
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                    This is Ben Raizen speaking.
                    I spoke with some people in the CO Coalition of Independent Political Parties.  They  are strongly in favor of the IRV idea, but who is going to fund the petition drive? It's not cheap.
                            Ben
                  • Dpolhill@aol.com
                    In a message dated 12/20/2002 10:48:24 PM Mountain Standard Time, ... Hi Ben, We will do it with volunteers. Jeff said we needed 2500 signatures ... which
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 20, 2002
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                      In a message dated 12/20/2002 10:48:24 PM Mountain Standard Time, bettyben@... writes:

                      This is Ben Raizen speaking.
                      I spoke with some people in the CO Coalition of Independent Political Parties.  They  are strongly in favor of the IRV idea, but who is going to fund the petition drive? It's not cheap.


                      Hi Ben,
                      We will do it with volunteers.  Jeff said we needed 2500 signatures ... which means valid ... to get that many valid we need to get about 4,000.  An average production volunteer can do about 20/hr.  Thus, we need 200 volunteer-hours to get the job done.  One person could get this done at 100/day = 5 hrs/day with an investment of 40 days.  I did 2000 signatures by myself when Campbell and I did the petition rights amendment in 1996. 

                      If someone wants to write a check that is better ... so we can focus on the campaign and message. 

                      Dennis Polhill
                      Golden
                    • Dpolhill@aol.com
                      In a message dated 12/21/2002 7:30:06 AM Mountain Standard Time, ... Hi Dave, I agree. With a few dozen mayor candidates a run off is virtually guaranteed.
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 21, 2002
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                        In a message dated 12/21/2002 7:30:06 AM Mountain Standard Time, daitken@... writes:

                        I think there's no choice. It's the May ballot or nothing. There will only
                        be a June ballot IF there's a runoff for mayor.


                        Hi Dave,
                        I agree.  With a few dozen mayor candidates a run off is virtually guaranteed.  But whether or not that happens, what better opportunity to make the point and win the case.  For statewide ballots the cut off for petitions is 3 months before the election.  If it is the same for Denver, the cut off for turning in petitions would be about Feb. 7 +/-.  Can anyone confirm this or provide more specifics?
                        Thanks.
                        Dennis Polhill
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