Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Indo-Eurasia] another rooster-related question

Expand Messages
  • Max Dashu
    ... I think so! How else could Doro Wat be one of the most famous (and delicious) of Ethiopian dishes? Max -- Max Dashu Suppressed Histories Archives
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 31 11:34 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      >I was of the impression that chicken was indeed part of the traditional and
      >present-day diet of Ethiopian non-Jews.

      I think so! How else could Doro Wat be one of the most famous (and
      delicious) of Ethiopian dishes?

      Max
      --
      Max Dashu
      Suppressed Histories Archives
      http://www.suppressedhistories.net
      Real Women, Global Vision
    • Dan Lusthaus
      Thanks, Annette and Max. Very helpful and interesting. The Ethiopian Jew with whom I talked -- today a child psychiatrist in Florida -- first encountered
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 1, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Thanks, Annette and Max. Very helpful and interesting.

        The Ethiopian Jew with whom I talked -- today a child psychiatrist in
        Florida -- first encountered chicken consumption, he told me, when he left
        Ethiopia to attend medical school in Yugoslavia. He found the concept
        revolting. His accounts also confirm what you say about sacrifice and animal
        slaughter, according to him, primarily of sheep and goats, a practice which
        he missed and described in rather gory detail.

        best,
        Dan
      • jkirk
        Hi Dan, My guess as to the Ethiopian revulsion about chickens is that it is a reaction to the use all over Africa, in many different cultures, of slaughtering
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 1, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Dan,

          My guess as to the Ethiopian revulsion about chickens is that it is a
          reaction to the use all over Africa, in many different cultures, of
          slaughtering chickens for divination, including the drinking of some of
          their blood and in some cases eating the raw flesh, if possession is
          involved. I don't recall if the sex of the chicken has any bearing on these
          divination rituals. But overall, chickens are favorite divination
          sacrifices.
          Joanna
          =================

          Dear John,

          Thank you for hunting down those sources, especially the 1835 Fessenden...
          [ad infinitum]. I'm not sure the Wikipedia Yom Kippur ritual is accurate,
          and if some Jews do perform something like that, it is localized, not a
          general "traditional" ritual. That European Jews adopted the chicken into
          their diet is clear, whether acquired in Eastern Europe or even earlier.
          Thanks again. Does anyone know if non-Jews in present-day Ethiopia also find
          the chicken "unclean" and unfit to eat?

          Dan

          No virus found in this outgoing message.
          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/982 - Release Date: 8/31/2007
          5:21 PM
        • Trudy Kawami
          One reason chickens are not common in ANE imagery as a whole is that they were first domesticated in SE Asia (probably from the red jungle fowl) and slowly
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 1, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            One reason chickens are not common in ANE imagery as a whole is that they were first domesticated in SE Asia (probably from the red jungle fowl) and slowly made their way westward. I think we have a few Middle Assyrian (12th cent BCE) seals with roosters as "filler" motifs, & certainly they were known, but not common, in the Late Assyrian period (9-7th cents. BCE). The same applies to the motif in Iran.
            Trudy Kawami (still slightly jet-lagged but healthy)



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Judith Lerner
            Further to that, see Erica Ehrenberg, The Rooster in Mesopotamia, in the Donald E. Hansen festschrfit, Leaving No Stones Unturned : she notes that they are
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 2, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Further to that, see Erica Ehrenberg, "The Rooster in Mesopotamia," in the
              Donald E. Hansen festschrfit, "Leaving No Stones Unturned": she notes that
              they are believed to have arrived in Mesopotamia from India via Iran and
              that the Greeks called the rooster the "Persian bird." Their presence in
              Mesopotamia may go back to a text of the Ur III period but their visual
              representation is later--first Middle Assyrian as Trudy states (EE cites a
              pyxis from a 14th-century tomb at Assur). Cocks don't surface again in
              Mesopotamia imagery until the first millennium BCE due to what EE attributes
              to closer contact with Iran (Late Babylonian and early Achaemenid times).
              She links the rooster to the god Nusku, god of light and fire. BTW, the tops
              of some Persian Achaemenid-period censers have a rooster finial.



              Judith



              -----Original Message-----
              From: Indo-Eurasian_research@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:Indo-Eurasian_research@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trudy Kawami
              Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 3:18 PM
              To: Indo-Eurasian_research@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [Indo-Eurasia] another rooster-related question



              One reason chickens are not common in ANE imagery as a whole is that they
              were first domesticated in SE Asia (probably from the red jungle fowl) and
              slowly made their way westward. I think we have a few Middle Assyrian (12th
              cent BCE) seals with roosters as "filler" motifs, & certainly they were
              known, but not common, in the Late Assyrian period (9-7th cents. BCE). The
              same applies to the motif in Iran.
              Trudy Kawami (still slightly jet-lagged but healthy)


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Heleanor Feltham
              However they do turn up on Greek blackfigure vases - there s a very nice example of a cockfight in the Nicholson Museum at Sydney University. Heleanor Feltham
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 2, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                However they do turn up on Greek blackfigure vases - there's a very nice example of a cockfight in the Nicholson Museum at Sydney University.

                Heleanor Feltham

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Judith Lerner <judith.lerner@...>
                Date: Monday, September 3, 2007 1:08 am
                Subject: RE: [Indo-Eurasia] another rooster-related question
                To: Indo-Eurasian_research@yahoogroups.com


                > Further to that, see Erica Ehrenberg, "The Rooster in Mesopotamia," in
                > the
                > Donald E. Hansen festschrfit, "Leaving No Stones Unturned": she notes
                > that
                > they are believed to have arrived in Mesopotamia from India via Iran and
                > that the Greeks called the rooster the "Persian bird." Their presence
                > in
                > Mesopotamia may go back to a text of the Ur III period but their visual
                > representation is later--first Middle Assyrian as Trudy states (EE
                > cites a
                > pyxis from a 14th-century tomb at Assur). Cocks don't surface again in
                > Mesopotamia imagery until the first millennium BCE due to what EE attributes
                > to closer contact with Iran (Late Babylonian and early Achaemenid times).
                > She links the rooster to the god Nusku, god of light and fire. BTW,
                > the tops
                > of some Persian Achaemenid-period censers have a rooster finial.
                >
                >
                >
                > Judith
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Indo-Eurasian_research@yahoogroups.com
                > [ On Behalf Of Trudy Kawami
                > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 3:18 PM
                > To: Indo-Eurasian_research@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: RE: [Indo-Eurasia] another rooster-related question
                >
                >
                >
                > One reason chickens are not common in ANE imagery as a whole is that they
                > were first domesticated in SE Asia (probably from the red jungle fowl)
                > and
                > slowly made their way westward. I think we have a few Middle Assyrian
                > (12th
                > cent BCE) seals with roosters as "filler" motifs, & certainly they were
                > known, but not common, in the Late Assyrian period (9-7th cents. BCE).
                > The
                > same applies to the motif in Iran.
                > Trudy Kawami (still slightly jet-lagged but healthy)
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.