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A bad experience with SCI

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  • guillermoribero
    Thank you very much to everyone for the information provided. I still can not decide on a clinic. However, I can tell you that there are people who seem to
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 25, 2012
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      Thank you very much to everyone for the information provided. I still can not decide on a clinic. However, I can tell you that there are people who seem to promote clinics. This is nothing unusual, I have knowledge that many clinics offer up to 500 dollars to give good referrals and commissions for bringing clientes.Mi experience with SCI, so far, is disastrous. All communication is by "customers" who work as managers of the clinic. I never had a personal answer from Dr. Shivani, including when I ask about very personal clinical issues. To make matters worse they compel me to hire lawyers to charge rates that are usurious. Another very BAD notice of this clinic is that they always use Intracytoplasmic sperm injection (ICSI) for fertilization in order to enhance the rate of pregnancy. Under my requirment, they informed me about this when our comunication was very advanced. This method is associated with 2 % rate of genetic diseases, appearing at early ages. So, please, consult with your own doctor if you really needs this procedure.
      Anyway, take my word with caution, because as I mentioned I did not work with them, and all the information in this clinic is channeled by clients who works as managers. For me, at least, this is absurd and unprofessional. I would never be in the hands of a clinic where the medical questions are answered by the patients!
    • amommyatlast
      WITH ALL RESPECT, it doesn t sound like you have had any experience with this clinic you say bad things about, much less a BAD experience. Now you caution
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 31, 2012
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        WITH ALL RESPECT, it doesn't sound like you have had any experience with this clinic you say bad things about, much less a "BAD" experience. Now you caution against this clinic, that has more than 300 babies home with their parents, no problems, but YOu think it is okay to say bad things and you have not even enrolled!!!

        You made some inquiries, you were told things you did not agree with and you did not like what you were told. So you decided to not proceed with this clinic. How is this a BAD experience? How is your experience "disastrous?" You have not even enrolled or tried, with this clinic or any clinic.

        You say the doctor did not answer your questions, well good luck with wanting attention 24/7 from any doctor anywhere in the world. I seriously donut questions are answered by patients, he clinic you talk about is world renowned, only YOU have a problem.

        It sounds to me like you are your own expert, so why don't you do your own surrogacy treatment, you find your own surrogate and you find your own egg donor. Then if it works for you, then you hire a lawyer to make the baby yours. EVERYONE from any country in the world needs to hire a lawyer to get baby home.

        ICSI is common routine precise all over the world. Did you seriously tell the doctor this was bad practise? Are you an infertility specialist? Where do you get your superior medical knowledge from? Wow, if I were a clinic I would have nothing to do with you!!!







        --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, "guillermoribero" <guillermoribero@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thank you very much to everyone for the information provided. I still can not decide on a clinic. However, I can tell you that there are people who seem to promote clinics. This is nothing unusual, I have knowledge that many clinics offer up to 500 dollars to give good referrals and commissions for bringing clientes.Mi experience with SCI, so far, is disastrous. All communication is by "customers" who work as managers of the clinic. I never had a personal answer from Dr. Shivani, including when I ask about very personal clinical issues. To make matters worse they compel me to hire lawyers to charge rates that are usurious. Another very BAD notice of this clinic is that they always use Intracytoplasmic sperm injection (ICSI) for fertilization in order to enhance the rate of pregnancy. Under my requirment, they informed me about this when our comunication was very advanced. This method is associated with 2 % rate of genetic diseases, appearing at early ages. So, please, consult with your own doctor if you really needs this procedure.
        > Anyway, take my word with caution, because as I mentioned I did not work with them, and all the information in this clinic is channeled by clients who works as managers. For me, at least, this is absurd and unprofessional. I would never be in the hands of a clinic where the medical questions are answered by the patients!
        >
      • Guillermo Ribero
        I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 2, 2012
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          I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
          Best wishes
        • Kathy Fields
          Thank you for the explanation of why ICSI should not be a routine treatment. This is extremely important information. Anyone who is getting fertility
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 2, 2012
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            Thank you for the explanation of why ICSI should not be a routine treatment.  This is extremely important information. Anyone who is getting fertility treatment should be concerned about the health of their future child when looking at treatment options. I'm very glad that you shared this.  
            Kathy


            To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
            From: guillermoribero@...
            Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 16:12:47 -0800
            Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI



            I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
            Best wishes


          • Veena S.
            THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!! ... Date: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:12:51 pm To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com From:
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 2, 2012
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              THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
              -----Original Message-----
              Date: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:12:51 pm
              To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
              From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@...>
              Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

              I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
              Best wishes
            • Veena S.
              IM GOING TO INDIA NEXT MONTH TO START AT DR PATEL CLINIC IN ANAND. Has any1 besides the few people i already know on here, used her services and are they happy
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 2, 2012
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                IM GOING TO INDIA NEXT MONTH TO START AT DR PATEL CLINIC IN ANAND. Has any1 besides the few people i already know on here, used her services and are they happy with the overal outcome?
                -----Original Message-----
                Date: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:04:41 pm
                To: <indiansurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                From: "Kathy Fields" <silkath@...>
                Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI


                Thank you for the explanation of why ICSI should not be a routine treatment. This is extremely important information. Anyone who is getting fertility treatment should be concerned about the health of their future child when looking at treatment options. I'm very glad that you shared this. Kathy

                To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                From: guillermoribero@...
                Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 16:12:47 -0800
                Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI























                I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg fertilize it, the tail of the spe
              • Kerrie
                I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 3, 2012
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                  I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many clinics in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                  I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                  All the best!

                  From: Veena S. <doctorveena@...>
                  To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                  Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                   
                  THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                  -----Original Message-----
                  Date: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:12:51 pm
                  To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                  From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@...>
                  Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                  I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                  Best wishes



                • chris
                  I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that
                  Message 8 of 23 , Feb 4, 2012
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                    I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                    Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                    As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.

                    Joanne

                    --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many clinics in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                    > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                    > All the best!
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@...>
                    > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                    > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > Date: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:12:51 pm
                    > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                    > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@...>
                    > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                    >
                    > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                    > Best wishes
                    >
                  • Kerrie
                    Great response. Now, how are those twins doing? Boys, girls?? Kerrie Sent from my iPhone ... Great response. Now, how are those twins doing? Boys, girls??
                    Message 9 of 23 , Feb 4, 2012
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                      Great response. Now, how are those twins doing?  Boys, girls??
                      Kerrie

                      Sent from my iPhone

                      On 2012-02-04, at 1:19 PM, "chris" <chrismcduff@...> wrote:

                       

                      I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                      Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                      As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.

                      Joanne

                      --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many clinics in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                      > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                      > All the best!
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@...>
                      > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                      > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > Date: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:12:51 pm
                      > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                      > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@...>
                      > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                      >
                      > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                      > Best wishes
                      >

                    • Michael Bishop
                      Agreed - hope the twins and parents are all doing well... Congratulations ... From: Kerrie Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad
                      Message 10 of 23 , Feb 5, 2012
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                        Agreed - hope the twins and parents are all doing well... Congratulations

                        --- On Sun, 5/2/12, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@...> wrote:

                        From: Kerrie <klcottrell2001@...>
                        Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                        To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                        Cc: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                        Received: Sunday, 5 February, 2012, 1:38 AM

                         

                        Great response. Now, how are those twins doing?  Boys, girls??
                        Kerrie

                        Sent from my iPhone

                        On 2012-02-04, at 1:19 PM, "chris" <chrismcduff@...> wrote:

                         

                        I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                        Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                        As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.

                        Joanne

                        --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many clinics in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                        > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                        > All the best!
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@...>
                        > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                        > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > Date: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:12:51 pm
                        > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                        > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@...>
                        > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                        >
                        > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                        > Best wishes
                        >

                      • Victoria Ha
                        Dear All,   I am just curious if any of you know or have a feeling which clinic has better results from using own eggs and sperm (vs egg donation) for couples
                        Message 11 of 23 , Feb 6, 2012
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                          Dear All,
                           
                          I am just curious if any of you know or have a feeling which clinic has better results from using own eggs and sperm (vs egg donation) for couples over 40.  
                           
                          We are also trying to finalize between the two.
                           
                          Thanks.  

                          From: Michael Bishop <bishop.michael77@...>
                          To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, 6 February 2012, 13:24
                          Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                           
                          Agreed - hope the twins and parents are all doing well... Congratulations

                          --- On Sun, 5/2/12, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@...> wrote:

                          From: Kerrie <klcottrell2001@...>
                          Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                          To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                          Cc: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                          Received: Sunday, 5 February, 2012, 1:38 AM

                           
                          Great response. Now, how are those twins doing?  Boys, girls??
                          Kerrie Sent from my iPhone
                          On 2012-02-04, at 1:19 PM, "chris" <chrismcduff@...> wrote:
                           
                          I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                          Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                          As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.

                          Joanne

                          --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many clinics in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                          > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                          > All the best!
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@...>
                          > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                          > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          >
                          > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > Date: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:12:51 pm
                          > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                          > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@...>
                          > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                          >
                          > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                          > Best wishes
                          >

                        • Shashi Kiran
                          With all being said, don t forget that this is a very lucrative business and all Dr s in India are very saints...  Can t comment too much on their capability
                          Message 12 of 23 , Feb 7, 2012
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                            With all being said, don't forget that this is a very lucrative business and all Dr's in India are very saints... 

                            Can't comment too much on their capability (they may be good or very good..) but with my personal experience with SCI is that they give lot of importance on media management and their profiles are active in almost all of fertility e-groups...to ensure that no bad press happens..


                            From: chris <chrismcduff@...>
                            To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 10:19 AM
                            Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                             
                            I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                            Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                            As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.

                            Joanne

                            --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many clinics in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                            > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                            > All the best!
                            >
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@...>
                            > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                            > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > Date: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:12:51 pm
                            > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                            > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@...>
                            > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                            >
                            > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                            > Best wishes
                            >



                          • amommyatlast
                            Everyone must do their homework. What one clinic (or even country) offers with surrogacy treatment will be different to what another will offer. It is up to
                            Message 13 of 23 , Feb 8, 2012
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                              Everyone must do their homework. What one clinic (or even country) offers with surrogacy treatment will be different to what another will offer. It is up to the parents to decide what is right for them as a family.

                              I will, however, object to anyone making a post on a forum that maligns a clinic for a medical process that ALL clinic routinely undertakes, whether that be a clinic in India, UK USA, Europe and professes to be a medical expert on this.

                              I wonder what the agenda is here. There is too much rubbish floating around on forums, on blogs on private emails about this clinic or that clinic, NO clinic is perfect, but to question an IVF specialist is, in my opinion, silly at best. To wish to dominate the time of the iVF specialist is naive, and just downright selfish on the part of the IP.



                              --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chrismcduff@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                              > Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                              > As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.
                              >
                              > Joanne
                              >
                              > --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many clinics in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                              > > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                              > > All the best!
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ________________________________
                              > > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@>
                              > > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                              > > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >  
                              > >
                              > > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > Date: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:12:51 pm
                              > > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@>
                              > > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                              > >
                              > > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                              > > Best wishes
                              > >
                              >
                            • jyotsana agarwal
                              There is nothing to get so upset about. We are free to express our ideas and we are not paid to keep our mouth shut and to protect any clinics. There is a lot
                              Message 14 of 23 , Feb 8, 2012
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                                There is nothing to get so upset about. We are free to express our ideas and we are not paid to keep our mouth shut and to protect any clinics. There is a lot of crap going on with these Indian clinics and please do not ask me to list these problems.


                                From: amommyatlast <amommyatlast@...>
                                To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2012 9:44 PM
                                Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                 
                                Everyone must do their homework. What one clinic (or even country) offers with surrogacy treatment will be different to what another will offer. It is up to the parents to decide what is right for them as a family.

                                I will, however, object to anyone making a post on a forum that maligns a clinic for a medical process that ALL clinic routinely undertakes, whether that be a clinic in India, UK USA, Europe and professes to be a medical expert on this.

                                I wonder what the agenda is here. There is too much rubbish floating around on forums, on blogs on private emails about this clinic or that clinic, NO clinic is perfect, but to question an IVF specialist is, in my opinion, silly at best. To wish to dominate the time of the iVF specialist is naive, and just downright selfish on the part of the IP.

                                --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chrismcduff@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                                > Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                                > As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.
                                >
                                > Joanne
                                >
                                > --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many clinics in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                                > > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                                > > All the best!
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ________________________________
                                > > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@>
                                > > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                                > > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >  
                                > >
                                > > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > Date: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:12:51 pm
                                > > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                > > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@>
                                > > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                > >
                                > > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                                > > Best wishes
                                > >
                                >



                              • Megan Sainsbury
                                Here here, nothing to get so upset about, and I wonder why people feel they have to get on a public forum and say bad things about any clinic. They are all
                                Message 15 of 23 , Feb 8, 2012
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                                  Here here, nothing to get so upset about, and I wonder why people feel they have to get on a public forum and say bad things about any clinic. They are all good and also not so good.


                                  From: jyotsana agarwal <jyotsanaagarwal@...>
                                  To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Thursday, 9 February 2012 12:04 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                   
                                  There is nothing to get so upset about. We are free to express our ideas and we are not paid to keep our mouth shut and to protect any clinics. There is a lot of crap going on with these Indian clinics and please do not ask me to list these problems.


                                  From: amommyatlast <amommyatlast@...>
                                  To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2012 9:44 PM
                                  Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                   
                                  Everyone must do their homework. What one clinic (or even country) offers with surrogacy treatment will be different to what another will offer. It is up to the parents to decide what is right for them as a family.

                                  I will, however, object to anyone making a post on a forum that maligns a clinic for a medical process that ALL clinic routinely undertakes, whether that be a clinic in India, UK USA, Europe and professes to be a medical expert on this.

                                  I wonder what the agenda is here. There is too much rubbish floating around on forums, on blogs on private emails about this clinic or that clinic, NO clinic is perfect, but to question an IVF specialist is, in my opinion, silly at best. To wish to dominate the time of the iVF specialist is naive, and just downright selfish on the part of the IP.

                                  --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chrismcduff@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                                  > Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                                  > As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.
                                  >
                                  > Joanne
                                  >
                                  > --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many clinics in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                                  > > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                                  > > All the best!
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ________________________________
                                  > > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@>
                                  > > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                                  > > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >  
                                  > >
                                  > > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > Date: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:12:51 pm
                                  > > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@>
                                  > > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                  > >
                                  > > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                                  > > Best wishes
                                  > >
                                  >





                                • Kathy Fields
                                  The experts have concerns about ICSI. There is evidence that it is associated with a higher risk of serious genetic disorders, and this information is easily
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Feb 8, 2012
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                                    The experts have concerns about ICSI. There is evidence that it is associated with a higher risk of serious genetic disorders, and this information is easily available for all to see on the internet.  It is also associated with higher fertilization rates of the egg, and that is probably why some fertility doctors make routine use of the procedure.   ICSI is a procedure that is widely used *when circumstances call for it, e.g. low sperm count.* That does not mean that it is the best procedure to use with all patients, even those with normal sperm counts.  It absolutely makes sense for the consumer to question the procedures used by IVF specialists on these matters.  Medical history is full of examples of medical practitioners performing procedures and prescribing medications that cause serious problems and even death for their patients.  Even in current times the iatrogenic rate (illness and death caused by medical error) is over 10% in hospitals.  Doctors are experts but they are not infallible. I am suspicious of anyone who takes offense  because a prospective patient looks at the medical evidence that is available, thinks for him or herself, and asks questions.


                                    To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: jyotsanaagarwal@...
                                    Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 09:34:01 +0530
                                    Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI



                                    There is nothing to get so upset about. We are free to express our ideas and we are not paid to keep our mouth shut and to protect any clinics. There is a lot of crap going on with these Indian clinics and please do not ask me to list these problems.


                                    From: amommyatlast <amommyatlast@...>
                                    To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2012 9:44 PM
                                    Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                     
                                    Everyone must do their homework. What one clinic (or even country) offers with surrogacy treatment will be different to what another will offer. It is up to the parents to decide what is right for them as a family.

                                    I will, however, object to anyone making a post on a forum that maligns a clinic for a medical process that ALL clinic routinely undertakes, whether that be a clinic in India, UK USA, Europe and professes to be a medical expert on this.

                                    I wonder what the agenda is here. There is too much rubbish floating around on forums, on blogs on private emails about this clinic or that clinic, NO clinic is perfect, but to question an IVF specialist is, in my opinion, silly at best. To wish to dominate the time of the iVF specialist is naive, and just downright selfish on the part of the IP.

                                    --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chrismcduff@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                                    > Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                                    > As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.
                                    >
                                    > Joanne
                                    >
                                    > --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many clinics in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                                    > > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                                    > > All the best!
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ________________________________
                                    > > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@>
                                    > > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                                    > > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >  
                                    > >
                                    > > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > Date: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:12:51 pm
                                    > > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@>
                                    > > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                    > >
                                    > > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                                    > > Best wishes
                                    > >
                                    >





                                  • Veena S.
                                     I absolutely agree !! If it were not for this blog i would not have been aware of the higher risk of serious genetic disorders with ICSI, and  I have
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Feb 8, 2012
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                                       I absolutely agree !! If it were not for this blog i would not have been aware of the higher risk of serious genetic disorders with ICSI, and  I have since  done alot of homework on this topic. I also agree that this is an open forum and everyone has their right to express and share their own experiences. This forum has helped me tremendously. I am on my way to india in a week, and will be starting the entire process from scratch. I have met people on here who have been so very helpful to me. I have also learned alot from your posts, about what to be cautious of etc. I am really happy this was started and hope people continue to express and share knowledge and experiences, whether good or bad. :)

                                      From: Kathy Fields <silkath@...>
                                      To: indiansurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 11:54 PM
                                      Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                       
                                      The experts have concerns about ICSI. There is evidence that it is associated with a higher risk of serious genetic disorders, and this information is easily available for all to see on the internet.  It is also associated with higher fertilization rates of the egg, and that is probably why some fertility doctors make routine use of the procedure.   ICSI is a procedure that is widely used *when circumstances call for it, e.g. low sperm count.* That does not mean that it is the best procedure to use with all patients, even those with normal sperm counts.  It absolutely makes sense for the consumer to question the procedures used by IVF specialists on these matters.  Medical history is full of examples of medical practitioners performing procedures and prescribing medications that cause serious problems and even death for their patients.  Even in current times the iatrogenic rate (illness and death caused by medical error) is over 10% in hospitals.  Doctors are experts but they are not infallible. I am suspicious of anyone who takes offense  because a prospective patient looks at the medical evidence that is available, thinks for him or herself, and asks questions.

                                      To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: jyotsanaagarwal@...
                                      Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 09:34:01 +0530
                                      Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI



                                      There is nothing to get so upset about. We are free to express our ideas and we are not paid to keep our mouth shut and to protect any clinics. There is a lot of crap going on with these Indian clinics and please do not ask me to list these problems.

                                      From: amommyatlast <amommyatlast@...>
                                      To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2012 9:44 PM
                                      Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                       
                                      Everyone must do their homework. What one clinic (or even country) offers with surrogacy treatment will be different to what another will offer. It is up to the parents to decide what is right for them as a family.

                                      I will, however, object to anyone making a post on a forum that maligns a clinic for a medical process that ALL clinic routinely undertakes, whether that be a clinic in India, UK USA, Europe and professes to be a medical expert on this.

                                      I wonder what the agenda is here. There is too much rubbish floating around on forums, on blogs on private emails about this clinic or that clinic, NO clinic is perfect, but to question an IVF specialist is, in my opinion, silly at best. To wish to dominate the time of the iVF specialist is naive, and just downright selfish on the part of the IP.

                                      --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chrismcduff@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                                      > Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                                      > As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone
                                      whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.
                                      >
                                      > Joanne
                                      >
                                      > --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many clinics
                                      in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                                      > > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                                      > > All the best!
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ________________________________
                                      > > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@>
                                      > > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                                      > > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >  
                                      > >
                                      > > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                                      > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > Date: Thursday, February 02,
                                      2012 3:12:51 pm
                                      > > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@>
                                      > > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                      > >
                                      > > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is
                                      becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                                      > > Best wishes
                                      > >
                                      >







                                    • Megan Sainsbury
                                      I have had ICSI with all my eggs, it was deemed necessary with our clinics in US (several clinics in SoCal) and also our clinics in India (been to 2) My son
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Feb 8, 2012
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                                        I have had ICSI with all my eggs, it was deemed necessary with our clinics in US (several clinics in SoCal) and also our clinics in India (been to 2) My son was born with in India with ICSI. We are pregnant again, ICSI was also done to eggs due to our poor sperm quality.

                                        So what could this mean for me? Should I expect a problem with my son and new baby? 

                                        I have never come across this ...


                                        From: Veena S. <doctorveena@...>
                                        To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Thursday, 9 February 2012 1:04 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                         
                                         I absolutely agree !! If it were not for this blog i would not have been aware of the higher risk of serious genetic disorders with ICSI, and  I have since  done alot of homework on this topic. I also agree that this is an open forum and everyone has their right to express and share their own experiences. This forum has helped me tremendously. I am on my way to india in a week, and will be starting the entire process from scratch. I have met people on here who have been so very helpful to me. I have also learned alot from your posts, about what to be cautious of etc. I am really happy this was started and hope people continue to express and share knowledge and experiences, whether good or bad. :)

                                        From: Kathy Fields <silkath@...>
                                        To: indiansurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 11:54 PM
                                        Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                         
                                        The experts have concerns about ICSI. There is evidence that it is associated with a higher risk of serious genetic disorders, and this information is easily available for all to see on the internet.  It is also associated with higher fertilization rates of the egg, and that is probably why some fertility doctors make routine use of the procedure.   ICSI is a procedure that is widely used *when circumstances call for it, e.g. low sperm count.* That does not mean that it is the best procedure to use with all patients, even those with normal sperm counts.  It absolutely makes sense for the consumer to question the procedures used by IVF specialists on these matters.  Medical history is full of examples of medical practitioners performing procedures and prescribing medications that cause serious problems and even death for their patients.  Even in current times the iatrogenic rate (illness and death caused by medical error) is over 10% in hospitals.  Doctors are experts but they are not infallible. I am suspicious of anyone who takes offense  because a prospective patient looks at the medical evidence that is available, thinks for him or herself, and asks questions.

                                        To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: jyotsanaagarwal@...
                                        Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 09:34:01 +0530
                                        Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI



                                        There is nothing to get so upset about. We are free to express our ideas and we are not paid to keep our mouth shut and to protect any clinics. There is a lot of crap going on with these Indian clinics and please do not ask me to list these problems.

                                        From: amommyatlast <amommyatlast@...>
                                        To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2012 9:44 PM
                                        Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                         
                                        Everyone must do their homework. What one clinic (or even country) offers with surrogacy treatment will be different to what another will offer. It is up to the parents to decide what is right for them as a family.

                                        I will, however, object to anyone making a post on a forum that maligns a clinic for a medical process that ALL clinic routinely undertakes, whether that be a clinic in India, UK USA, Europe and professes to be a medical expert on this.

                                        I wonder what the agenda is here. There is too much rubbish floating around on forums, on blogs on private emails about this clinic or that clinic, NO clinic is perfect, but to question an IVF specialist is, in my opinion, silly at best. To wish to dominate the time of the iVF specialist is naive, and just downright selfish on the part of the IP.

                                        --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chrismcduff@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                                        > Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                                        > As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone
                                        whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.
                                        >
                                        > Joanne
                                        >
                                        > --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many
                                        clinics in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                                        > > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                                        > > All the best!
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ________________________________
                                        > > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@>
                                        > > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                                        > > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >  
                                        > >
                                        > > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                        > > Date: Thursday, February 02,
                                        2012 3:12:51 pm
                                        > > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@>
                                        > > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                        > >
                                        > > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages.
                                        This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                                        > > Best wishes
                                        > >
                                        >









                                      • Kathy Fields
                                        Megan, although ICSI increases risk, the risk is still very low. Don t anticipate problems with your children, the odds are very much in favor of your
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Feb 8, 2012
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                                          Megan, although ICSI increases risk, the risk is still very low.  Don't anticipate problems with your children, the odds are very much in favor of your children being healthy.  My point was that there is some risk (some, not a lot) with ICSI, and that we should question its indiscriminate use.  In your case it was a necessity, and I would do the same in your position even though I question using it in all cases.

                                          To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: amommyatlast@...
                                          Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 21:24:21 -0800
                                          Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI



                                          I have had ICSI with all my eggs, it was deemed necessary with our clinics in US (several clinics in SoCal) and also our clinics in India (been to 2) My son was born with in India with ICSI. We are pregnant again, ICSI was also done to eggs due to our poor sperm quality.

                                          So what could this mean for me? Should I expect a problem with my son and new baby? 

                                          I have never come across this ...


                                          From: Veena S. <doctorveena@...>
                                          To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Thursday, 9 February 2012 1:04 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                           
                                           I absolutely agree !! If it were not for this blog i would not have been aware of the higher risk of serious genetic disorders with ICSI, and  I have since  done alot of homework on this topic. I also agree that this is an open forum and everyone has their right to express and share their own experiences. This forum has helped me tremendously. I am on my way to india in a week, and will be starting the entire process from scratch. I have met people on here who have been so very helpful to me. I have also learned alot from your posts, about what to be cautious of etc. I am really happy this was started and hope people continue to express and share knowledge and experiences, whether good or bad. :)

                                          From: Kathy Fields <silkath@...>
                                          To: indiansurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 11:54 PM
                                          Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                           
                                          The experts have concerns about ICSI. There is evidence that it is associated with a higher risk of serious genetic disorders, and this information is easily available for all to see on the internet.  It is also associated with higher fertilization rates of the egg, and that is probably why some fertility doctors make routine use of the procedure.   ICSI is a procedure that is widely used *when circumstances call for it, e.g. low sperm count.* That does not mean that it is the best procedure to use with all patients, even those with normal sperm counts.  It absolutely makes sense for the consumer to question the procedures used by IVF specialists on these matters.  Medical history is full of examples of medical practitioners performing procedures and prescribing medications that cause serious problems and even death for their patients.  Even in current times the iatrogenic rate (illness and death caused by medical error) is over 10% in hospitals.  Doctors are experts but they are not infallible. I am suspicious of anyone who takes offense  because a prospective patient looks at the medical evidence that is available, thinks for him or herself, and asks questions.

                                          To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: jyotsanaagarwal@...
                                          Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 09:34:01 +0530
                                          Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI



                                          There is nothing to get so upset about. We are free to express our ideas and we are not paid to keep our mouth shut and to protect any clinics. There is a lot of crap going on with these Indian clinics and please do not ask me to list these problems.

                                          From: amommyatlast <amommyatlast@...>
                                          To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2012 9:44 PM
                                          Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                           
                                          Everyone must do their homework. What one clinic (or even country) offers with surrogacy treatment will be different to what another will offer. It is up to the parents to decide what is right for them as a family.

                                          I will, however, object to anyone making a post on a forum that maligns a clinic for a medical process that ALL clinic routinely undertakes, whether that be a clinic in India, UK USA, Europe and professes to be a medical expert on this.

                                          I wonder what the agenda is here. There is too much rubbish floating around on forums, on blogs on private emails about this clinic or that clinic, NO clinic is perfect, but to question an IVF specialist is, in my opinion, silly at best. To wish to dominate the time of the iVF specialist is naive, and just downright selfish on the part of the IP.

                                          --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chrismcduff@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                                          > Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                                          > As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.
                                          >
                                          > Joanne
                                          >
                                          > --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many clinics in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                                          > > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                                          > > All the best!
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ________________________________
                                          > > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@>
                                          > > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                                          > > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >  
                                          > >
                                          > > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                                          > > -----Original Message-----
                                          > > Date: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:12:51 pm
                                          > > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@>
                                          > > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                          > >
                                          > > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages. This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                                          > > Best wishes
                                          > >
                                          >











                                        • Megan Sainsbury
                                          Thanks Kathy! Yes, it was necessary in our case where my husband had bad morphology with his sperm. We think this was because he spent many years in Kuwait and
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Feb 8, 2012
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                                            Thanks Kathy! Yes, it was necessary in our case where my husband had bad morphology with his sperm. We think this was because he spent many years in Kuwait and Pakistan working alongside radioactive pipelines. God, who knows??!! He actually has 5% normal forms. I did a bit of research, and came up with WHO standards for sperm, and apparently 50% normal forms is good these days. I learned that in 1950s average sperm sample was in terms of quantity was 80 million. It then dropped to 20 million and apparently it is now 8 million. Yay for sperm, but the drop in volume is enormous over the past 50 years.

                                            We learned it is not the amount of sperm one produces, but the quality of sperm.

                                            In our journeys with fertility clinics in Cali - our first clinic saw my hubby gave 60 million sperm, they never did an analysis. Then I went through 3 lots of timed ovulation. I went to the clinic every day to have a blood test, to check my hormone levels, they then called me in at the "right" time re hormones, and they called in my hubby to give a sample. Of the sample they washed it etc and I was artificially inseminated. I have to say, that was so gross.

                                            So we did this three times!!!

                                            We then progressed to IVF. Again, 2 clinics, we then had no semen analysis done. I did all the shots, and we never had ICSI. Our fertilisation rate was less than 50% each time (2 clinics).

                                            I do not understand why there is this conversation about ICSI is happening on this group. When we went thought so much, and ISCI would have given us our best chance at fertilization in the first place, and no clinic in US bothered to test my husband's sperm.

                                            After 3 years of being stuffed around we went to a clinic in Mumbai and they were the very first people to ask us for a semen morphology! This proved my husband had 5% normal forms. Not good.

                                            Anyway, we have our son now, but I guess I still feel very resentful that our US clinics did the wrong thing and made me go through cycle after cycle of timed ovulation and also timed insemination and also gave us the worst chance of any of my eggs fertilising simply because they did not bother to  do a basic test that India required!

                                            I am also pissed off that we have been through so much and then some joker gets on here bashing a clinic (I love ALL clinics) and with no experience, but thinking he has all the answers. i suspect he is a single or gay man, and has no understanding of what women go through with IVF etc, comes in and bleats about his "knowledge" - as a lot of gay people do, and then becomes a total expert!!! ANd feels it necessary to bash a clinic cause the Dr wont' talk to him personally. 





                                            From: Kathy Fields <silkath@...>
                                            To: indiansurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Thursday, 9 February 2012 1:32 PM
                                            Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                             

                                            Megan, although ICSI increases risk, the risk is still very low.  Don't anticipate problems with your children, the odds are very much in favor of your children being healthy.  My point was that there is some risk (some, not a lot) with ICSI, and that we should question its indiscriminate use.  In your case it was a necessity, and I would do the same in your position even though I question using it in all cases.

                                            To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                            From: amommyatlast@...
                                            Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 21:24:21 -0800
                                            Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI



                                            I have had ICSI with all my eggs, it was deemed necessary with our clinics in US (several clinics in SoCal) and also our clinics in India (been to 2) My son was born with in India with ICSI. We are pregnant again, ICSI was also done to eggs due to our poor sperm quality.

                                            So what could this mean for me? Should I expect a problem with my son and new baby? 

                                            I have never come across this ...


                                            From: Veena S. <doctorveena@...>
                                            To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Thursday, 9 February 2012 1:04 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                             
                                             I absolutely agree !! If it were not for this blog i would not have been aware of the higher risk of serious genetic disorders with ICSI, and  I have since  done alot of homework on this topic. I also agree that this is an open forum and everyone has their right to express and share their own experiences. This forum has helped me tremendously. I am on my way to india in a week, and will be starting the entire process from scratch. I have met people on here who have been so very helpful to me. I have also learned alot from your posts, about what to be cautious of etc. I am really happy this was started and hope people continue to express and share knowledge and experiences, whether good or bad. :)

                                            From: Kathy Fields <silkath@...>
                                            To: indiansurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 11:54 PM
                                            Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                             
                                            The experts have concerns about ICSI. There is evidence that it is associated with a higher risk of serious genetic disorders, and this information is easily available for all to see on the internet.  It is also associated with higher fertilization rates of the egg, and that is probably why some fertility doctors make routine use of the procedure.   ICSI is a procedure that is widely used *when circumstances call for it, e.g. low sperm count.* That does not mean that it is the best procedure to use with all patients, even those with normal sperm counts.  It absolutely makes sense for the consumer to question the procedures used by IVF specialists on these matters.  Medical history is full of examples of medical practitioners performing procedures and prescribing medications that cause serious problems and even death for their patients.  Even in current times the iatrogenic rate (illness and death caused by medical error) is over 10% in hospitals.  Doctors are experts but they are not infallible. I am suspicious of anyone who takes offense  because a prospective patient looks at the medical evidence that is available, thinks for him or herself, and asks questions.

                                            To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                            From: jyotsanaagarwal@...
                                            Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 09:34:01 +0530
                                            Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI



                                            There is nothing to get so upset about. We are free to express our ideas and we are not paid to keep our mouth shut and to protect any clinics. There is a lot of crap going on with these Indian clinics and please do not ask me to list these problems.

                                            From: amommyatlast <amommyatlast@...>
                                            To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2012 9:44 PM
                                            Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                             
                                            Everyone must do their homework. What one clinic (or even country) offers with surrogacy treatment will be different to what another will offer. It is up to the parents to decide what is right for them as a family.

                                            I will, however, object to anyone making a post on a forum that maligns a clinic for a medical process that ALL clinic routinely undertakes, whether that be a clinic in India, UK USA, Europe and professes to be a medical expert on this.

                                            I wonder what the agenda is here. There is too much rubbish floating around on forums, on blogs on private emails about this clinic or that clinic, NO clinic is perfect, but to question an IVF specialist is, in my opinion, silly at best. To wish to dominate the time of the iVF specialist is naive, and just downright selfish on the part of the IP.

                                            --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chrismcduff@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                                            > Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                                            > As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone
                                            whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.
                                            >
                                            > Joanne
                                            >
                                            > --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many
                                            clinics in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                                            > > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                                            > > All the best!
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ________________________________
                                            > > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@>
                                            > > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                                            > > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >  
                                            > >
                                            > > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                                            > > -----Original Message-----
                                            > > Date: Thursday, February 02,
                                            2012 3:12:51 pm
                                            > > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@>
                                            > > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                            > >
                                            > > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages.
                                            This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                                            > > Best wishes
                                            > >
                                            >













                                          • spice_latin@yahoo.com
                                            Hi all- I also wanted to let you know that my husband and I went to India for surrogacy, our clinic also used ICSI, because we needed it as well. It might be a
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Feb 9, 2012
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                                              Hi all-
                                              I also wanted to let you know that my husband and I went to India for surrogacy, our clinic also used ICSI, because we needed it as well. It might be a standard of practice, but I'm pretty sure that if you are in this boat, is because other paths have failed. My husband also had pretty bad morphology, the count was pretty high, but thank goodness our doctor here in the US did an analysis very early on and we knew we would need ICSI, plus it increases your chances of fertilization. You need to remember, it is not the number of eggs, but the number of embryos that will get you the better chance of getting a + pregnancy.
                                              You need to do your homework, I don't think every clinic is going to offer you everything you want, or think you deserve, remember, YOU want a baby! and believe it or not they know what they are doing, well most of them.
                                              Good luck to ya'll.
                                               


                                              From: Megan Sainsbury <amommyatlast@...>
                                              To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2012 1:09 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                               
                                              Thanks Kathy! Yes, it was necessary in our case where my husband had bad morphology with his sperm. We think this was because he spent many years in Kuwait and Pakistan working alongside radioactive pipelines. God, who knows??!! He actually has 5% normal forms. I did a bit of research, and came up with WHO standards for sperm, and apparently 50% normal forms is good these days. I learned that in 1950s average sperm sample was in terms of quantity was 80 million. It then dropped to 20 million and apparently it is now 8 million. Yay for sperm, but the drop in volume is enormous over the past 50 years.

                                              We learned it is not the amount of sperm one produces, but the quality of sperm.

                                              In our journeys with fertility clinics in Cali - our first clinic saw my hubby gave 60 million sperm, they never did an analysis. Then I went through 3 lots of timed ovulation. I went to the clinic every day to have a blood test, to check my hormone levels, they then called me in at the "right" time re hormones, and they called in my hubby to give a sample. Of the sample they washed it etc and I was artificially inseminated. I have to say, that was so gross.

                                              So we did this three times!!!

                                              We then progressed to IVF. Again, 2 clinics, we then had no semen analysis done. I did all the shots, and we never had ICSI. Our fertilisation rate was less than 50% each time (2 clinics).

                                              I do not understand why there is this conversation about ICSI is happening on this group. When we went thought so much, and ISCI would have given us our best chance at fertilization in the first place, and no clinic in US bothered to test my husband's sperm.

                                              After 3 years of being stuffed around we went to a clinic in Mumbai and they were the very first people to ask us for a semen morphology! This proved my husband had 5% normal forms. Not good.

                                              Anyway, we have our son now, but I guess I still feel very resentful that our US clinics did the wrong thing and made me go through cycle after cycle of timed ovulation and also timed insemination and also gave us the worst chance of any of my eggs fertilising simply because they did not bother to  do a basic test that India required!

                                              I am also pissed off that we have been through so much and then some joker gets on here bashing a clinic (I love ALL clinics) and with no experience, but thinking he has all the answers. i suspect he is a single or gay man, and has no understanding of what women go through with IVF etc, comes in and bleats about his "knowledge" - as a lot of gay people do, and then becomes a total expert!!! ANd feels it necessary to bash a clinic cause the Dr wont' talk to him personally. 





                                              From: Kathy Fields <silkath@...>
                                              To: indiansurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Thursday, 9 February 2012 1:32 PM
                                              Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                               

                                              Megan, although ICSI increases risk, the risk is still very low.  Don't anticipate problems with your children, the odds are very much in favor of your children being healthy.  My point was that there is some risk (some, not a lot) with ICSI, and that we should question its indiscriminate use.  In your case it was a necessity, and I would do the same in your position even though I question using it in all cases.

                                              To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                              From: amommyatlast@...
                                              Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 21:24:21 -0800
                                              Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI



                                              I have had ICSI with all my eggs, it was deemed necessary with our clinics in US (several clinics in SoCal) and also our clinics in India (been to 2) My son was born with in India with ICSI. We are pregnant again, ICSI was also done to eggs due to our poor sperm quality.

                                              So what could this mean for me? Should I expect a problem with my son and new baby? 

                                              I have never come across this ...


                                              From: Veena S. <doctorveena@...>
                                              To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Thursday, 9 February 2012 1:04 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                               
                                               I absolutely agree !! If it were not for this blog i would not have been aware of the higher risk of serious genetic disorders with ICSI, and  I have since  done alot of homework on this topic. I also agree that this is an open forum and everyone has their right to express and share their own experiences. This forum has helped me tremendously. I am on my way to india in a week, and will be starting the entire process from scratch. I have met people on here who have been so very helpful to me. I have also learned alot from your posts, about what to be cautious of etc. I am really happy this was started and hope people continue to express and share knowledge and experiences, whether good or bad. :)

                                              From: Kathy Fields <silkath@...>
                                              To: indiansurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 11:54 PM
                                              Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                               
                                              The experts have concerns about ICSI. There is evidence that it is associated with a higher risk of serious genetic disorders, and this information is easily available for all to see on the internet.  It is also associated with higher fertilization rates of the egg, and that is probably why some fertility doctors make routine use of the procedure.   ICSI is a procedure that is widely used *when circumstances call for it, e.g. low sperm count.* That does not mean that it is the best procedure to use with all patients, even those with normal sperm counts.  It absolutely makes sense for the consumer to question the procedures used by IVF specialists on these matters.  Medical history is full of examples of medical practitioners performing procedures and prescribing medications that cause serious problems and even death for their patients.  Even in current times the iatrogenic rate (illness and death caused by medical error) is over 10% in hospitals.  Doctors are experts but they are not infallible. I am suspicious of anyone who takes offense  because a prospective patient looks at the medical evidence that is available, thinks for him or herself, and asks questions.

                                              To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                              From: jyotsanaagarwal@...
                                              Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 09:34:01 +0530
                                              Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI



                                              There is nothing to get so upset about. We are free to express our ideas and we are not paid to keep our mouth shut and to protect any clinics. There is a lot of crap going on with these Indian clinics and please do not ask me to list these problems.

                                              From: amommyatlast <amommyatlast@...>
                                              To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2012 9:44 PM
                                              Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI

                                               
                                              Everyone must do their homework. What one clinic (or even country) offers with surrogacy treatment will be different to what another will offer. It is up to the parents to decide what is right for them as a family.

                                              I will, however, object to anyone making a post on a forum that maligns a clinic for a medical process that ALL clinic routinely undertakes, whether that be a clinic in India, UK USA, Europe and professes to be a medical expert on this.

                                              I wonder what the agenda is here. There is too much rubbish floating around on forums, on blogs on private emails about this clinic or that clinic, NO clinic is perfect, but to question an IVF specialist is, in my opinion, silly at best. To wish to dominate the time of the iVF specialist is naive, and just downright selfish on the part of the IP.

                                              --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chrismcduff@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                                              > Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                                              > As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone
                                              whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.
                                              >
                                              > Joanne
                                              >
                                              > --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many
                                              clinics in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                                              > > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                                              > > All the best!
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > ________________________________
                                              > > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@>
                                              > > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                                              > > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >  
                                              > >
                                              > > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                                              > > -----Original Message-----
                                              > > Date: Thursday, February 02,
                                              2012 3:12:51 pm
                                              > > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@>
                                              > > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                              > >
                                              > > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages.
                                              This is becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                                              > > Best wishes
                                              > >
                                              >















                                            • amommyatlast
                                              Clients do have the choice to opt out of ICSI, no clinic is going to force you to do it. I did a bit of research on this and the results are inconclusive at
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Feb 10, 2012
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                                                Clients do have the choice to opt out of ICSI, no clinic is going to force you to do it. I did a bit of research on this and the results are inconclusive at best, so I'm not going to worry.

                                                --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, spice_latin@... wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hi all-
                                                > I also wanted to let you know that my husband and I went to India for surrogacy, our clinic also used ICSI, because we needed it as well. It might be a standard of practice, but I'm pretty sure that if you are in this boat, is because other paths have failed. My husband also had pretty bad morphology, the count was pretty high, but thank goodness our doctor here in the US did an analysis very early on and we knew we would need ICSI, plus it increases your chances of fertilization. You need to remember, it is not the number of eggs, but the number of embryos that will get you the better chance of getting a + pregnancy.
                                                > You need to do your homework, I don't think every clinic is going to offer you everything you want, or think you deserve, remember, YOU want a baby! and believe it or not they know what they are doing, well most of them.
                                                > Good luck to ya'll.
                                                >  
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ________________________________
                                                > From: Megan Sainsbury <amommyatlast@...>
                                                > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2012 1:09 AM
                                                > Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >  
                                                > Thanks Kathy! Yes, it was necessary in our case where my husband had bad morphology with his sperm. We think this was because he spent many years in Kuwait and Pakistan working alongside radioactive pipelines. God, who knows??!! He actually has 5% normal forms. I did a bit of research, and came up with WHO standards for sperm, and apparently 50% normal forms is good these days. I learned that in 1950s average sperm sample was in terms of quantity was 80 million. It then dropped to 20 million and apparently it is now 8 million. Yay for sperm, but the drop in volume is enormous over the past 50 years.
                                                >
                                                > We learned it is not the amount of sperm one produces, but the quality of sperm.
                                                >
                                                > In our journeys with fertility clinics in Cali - our first clinic saw my hubby gave 60 million sperm, they never did an analysis. Then I went through 3 lots of timed ovulation. I went to the clinic every day to have a blood test, to check my hormone levels, they then called me in at the "right" time re hormones, and they called in my hubby to give a sample. Of the sample they washed it etc and I was artificially inseminated. I have to say, that was so gross.
                                                >
                                                > So we did this three times!!!
                                                >
                                                > We then progressed to IVF. Again, 2 clinics, we then had no semen analysis done. I did all the shots, and we never had ICSI. Our fertilisation rate was less than 50% each time (2 clinics).
                                                >
                                                > I do not understand why there is this conversation about ICSI is happening on this group. When we went thought so much, and ISCI would have given us our best chance at fertilization in the first place, and no clinic in US bothered to test my husband's sperm.
                                                >
                                                > After 3 years of being stuffed around we went to a clinic in Mumbai and they were the very first people to ask us for a semen morphology! This proved my husband had 5% normal forms. Not good.
                                                >
                                                > Anyway, we have our son now, but I guess I still feel very resentful that our US clinics did the wrong thing and made me go through cycle after cycle of timed ovulation and also timed insemination and also gave us the worst chance of any of my eggs fertilising simply because they did not bother to  do a basic test that India required!
                                                >
                                                > I am also pissed off that we have been through so much and then some joker gets on here bashing a clinic (I love ALL clinics) and with no experience, but thinking he has all the answers. i suspect he is a single or gay man, and has no understanding of what women go through with IVF etc, comes in and bleats about his "knowledge" - as a lot of gay people do, and then becomes a total expert!!! ANd feels it necessary to bash a clinic cause the Dr wont' talk to him personally. 
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ________________________________
                                                > From: Kathy Fields <silkath@...>
                                                > To: indiansurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Thursday, 9 February 2012 1:32 PM
                                                > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >  
                                                >
                                                > Megan, although ICSI increases risk, the risk is still very low.  Don't anticipate problems with your children, the odds are very much in favor of your children being healthy.  My point was that there is some risk (some, not a lot) with ICSI, and that we should question its indiscriminate use.  In your case it was a necessity, and I would do the same in your position even though I question using it in all cases.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                                > From: amommyatlast@...
                                                > Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 21:24:21 -0800
                                                > Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > I have had ICSI with all my eggs, it was deemed necessary with our clinics in US (several clinics in SoCal) and also our clinics in India (been to 2) My son was born with in India with ICSI. We are pregnant again, ICSI was also done to eggs due to our poor sperm quality.
                                                >
                                                > So what could this mean for me? Should I expect a problem with my son and new baby? 
                                                >
                                                > I have never come across this ...
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ________________________________
                                                > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@...>
                                                > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > Sent: Thursday, 9 February 2012 1:04 PM
                                                > Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >  
                                                >  I absolutely agree !! If it were not for this blog i would not have been aware of the higher risk of serious genetic disorders with ICSI, and  I have since  done alot of homework on this topic. I also agree that this is an open forum and everyone has their right to express and share their own experiences. This forum has helped me tremendously. I am on my way to india in a week, and will be starting the entire process from scratch. I have met people on here who have been so very helpful to me. I have also learned alot from your posts, about what to be cautious of etc. I am really happy this was started and hope people continue to express and share knowledge and experiences, whether good or bad. :)
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > From: Kathy Fields <silkath@...>
                                                > To: indiansurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 11:54 PM
                                                > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >  
                                                > The experts have concerns about ICSI. There is evidence that it is associated with a higher risk of serious genetic disorders, and this information is easily available for all to see on the internet.  It is also associated with higher fertilization rates of the egg, and that is probably why some fertility doctors make routine use of the procedure.   ICSI is a procedure that is widely used *when circumstances call for it, e.g. low sperm count.* That does not mean that it is the best procedure to use with all patients, even those with normal sperm counts.  It absolutely makes sense for the consumer to question the procedures used by IVF specialists on these matters.  Medical history is full of examples of medical practitioners performing procedures and prescribing medications that cause serious problems and even death for their patients.  Even in current times the iatrogenic rate (illness and death caused by medical error) is over 10% in hospitals.
                                                >  Doctors are experts but they are not infallible. I am suspicious of anyone who takes offense  because a prospective patient looks at the medical evidence that is available, thinks for him or herself, and asks questions.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                                > From: jyotsanaagarwal@...
                                                > Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 09:34:01 +0530
                                                > Subject: Re: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > There is nothing to get so upset about. We are free to express our ideas and we are not paid to keep our mouth shut and to protect any clinics. There is a lot of crap going on with these Indian clinics and please do not ask me to list these problems.
                                                >
                                                > From: amommyatlast <amommyatlast@...>
                                                > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2012 9:44 PM
                                                > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >  
                                                > Everyone must do their homework. What one clinic (or even country) offers with surrogacy treatment will be different to what another will offer. It is up to the parents to decide what is right for them as a family.
                                                >
                                                > I will, however, object to anyone making a post on a forum that maligns a clinic for a medical process that ALL clinic routinely undertakes, whether that be a clinic in India, UK USA, Europe and professes to be a medical expert on this.
                                                >
                                                > I wonder what the agenda is here. There is too much rubbish floating around on forums, on blogs on private emails about this clinic or that clinic, NO clinic is perfect, but to question an IVF specialist is, in my opinion, silly at best. To wish to dominate the time of the iVF specialist is naive, and just downright selfish on the part of the IP.
                                                >
                                                > --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chrismcduff@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > I agree wholeheartedly. We did not go with SCI. We chose Dr Kadam at Corion for a number of reasons, but they were my reasons and may not be the things that were important to anyone else. We have had a fantastic experience with Dr K and more recently with Hiranandani hospital where our twins are currently in the NICU having ben born at 28 weeks. I have read many positive reports on SCI and those who have had treatment there generally seem very happy.
                                                > > Undoubtedly there are individuals who will campaign for the clinic they used and some with dismiss others without knowing much about them. We all have to do our due diligence. Decide what factors are important to us and then make our decisions from there.
                                                > > As I say we have had an amazing experience with Dr K, but I have been in contact with someone
                                                > whose experience was not as positive. I do not doubt their experience for a minute, but neither does it invalidate mine.
                                                > >
                                                > > Joanne
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, Kerrie <klcottrell2001@> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I rarely chime in on these somewhat heated discussions, but I feel the need to this time.   I would just like to share that our experience with SCI was BEYOND amazing! We were very pleased and also blessed with a baby girl last August, all thanks to Dr Shivani and her team, and our wonderful surrogate. We worked with a different clinic prior to this and after 5 negatives, moved to SCI. I think we need to always keep an open mind and not let one persons opinions taint the reputation of a clinic.  There are many people pregnant at many
                                                > clinics
                                                > in India, and I think we need to ban together and support each other, not slam clinics and make people feel uncomfortable about their clinics...where they are more than likely pregnant.
                                                > > > I hope Guillermoro finds a clinic that can meet all his expectations, and have success. 
                                                > > > All the best!
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > ________________________________
                                                > > > From: Veena S. <doctorveena@>
                                                > > > To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23:02 AM
                                                > > > Subject: RE: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >  
                                                > > >
                                                > > > THANK YOU FOR THS IMPT INFO!!!
                                                > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                > > > Date: Thursday, February 02,
                                                > 2012 3:12:51 pm
                                                > > > To: "IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com" <IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > > > From: "Guillermo Ribero" <guillermoribero@>
                                                > > > Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I will ignore the atack that I have received just for my critics to the SCI clinic. It is plentty of payed people and I will not answer to this atack. The only thing I would remark is that ICSI is not a free of risk treatment. ICSI MUST ONLY  be conducted when the spermogram confirms a diagnosis of  azoospermia. ICSI is concistently correlated with a 2 per cent rate of degenerative diseases at earliest ages.
                                                > This is
                                                > becouse by injecting the sperm into the egg  fertilize it, the tail of the sperm  is introduced, when in nature this never happen. In nature only the head of the sperm goes into the egg. The fragments of  DNA of the tail of the sperm introduced by ICSI may produce some genetic diseases. In sum, a clinic  wich always conducts ICSI just for enhancing the rate of pregnancy is simply a bad clinic. Again: consult with your own doctor and avoid to interact with patients or payed people for obtaining  scientific information.
                                                > > > Best wishes
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • Veena S.
                                                THANKS! WOW 90K? DO U MIND ME ASK U WHY IT WAS SO HIGH? ... Date: Friday, February 10, 2012 8:28:14 pm To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com From: amommyatlast
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Feb 11, 2012
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                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  THANKS! WOW 90K? DO U MIND ME ASK U WHY IT WAS SO HIGH?
                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  Date: Friday, February 10, 2012 8:28:14 pm
                                                  To: IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com
                                                  From: "amommyatlast" <amommyatlast@...>
                                                  Subject: [IndianSurrogacy] Re: A bad experience with SCI


                                                  Clients do have the choice to opt out of ICSI, no clinic is going to force you to do it. I did a bit of research on this and the results are inconclusive at best, so I'm not going to worry.

                                                  --- In IndianSurrogacy@yahoogroups.com, spice_latin@... wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Hi all-
                                                  > I also wanted to let you know that my husband and I went to India for surrogacy, our clinic also used ICSI, because we needed it as well. It might be a standard of practice, but I'm pretty sure that if you are in this boat, is because other paths have failed. My husband also had pretty bad morphology, the count was pretty high, but thank goodness our doctor here in the US did an analysis very early on and we knew we would need ICSI, plus it increases your chances of fertilization. You need to remember, it is not the number of eggs, but the number of embryos that will get you the better chance of getting a + pregnancy.
                                                  > You need to do your homework, I don't think every clinic is going to offer you everything you want, or think you deserve
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