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Christian Orthodox nations have true economic prospects

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  • george_cthomas
    Christian Orthodox nations have true economic prospects - Russian Church official Moscow, August 9, Interfax - Head of the Synodal Department for Church and
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 20 1:40 PM
      Christian Orthodox nations have true economic prospects - Russian Church official

      Moscow, August 9, Interfax - Head of the Synodal Department for Church and Society Relations Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin does not agree with those who believe Orthodox countries to be most depressive in economic sense.

      "Today many people with scorn and disregard speak of Orthodox nations as economically unsuccessful. They build diagrams illustrating the dependence of economic prosperity from religion. They believe that atheists are most successful, Protestants are a little less successful, Catholics - even less and Orthodox are the poorest and the most unhappy," Father Vsevolod said answering the questions at the website of the Synodal Information Department.

      Instead of arguing with the scheme, the priest reminded that "many modern economists who are not keen on market fundamentalism say that growth of economy and demand can be endless and nations that can give up the idea of constant and uncontrolled growth will be more successful when this growth will stop."

      According to Fr. Vsevolod "sooner or later it will stop as resources of the planet are limited and demand, even senseless, can't grow forever."

      Believing that "it is necessary to transfer from economy of growth to economy of self-sufficiency," the priest noted that "self-sufficiency and self-limitation in acquiring earthly goods were always characteristic of Orthodox civilization."

      "Its traditions teach not to endlessly multiply material riches, but to be happy with the little, or at least sensible amount of earthly goods. I think that the future belongs to such attitude. Today we should interpret it in categories of economic science and building economic system," Father Vsevolod said.

      He is sure that such model will be much more successful than an idea of eternal growth and unlimited demand that cannot end in anything but "crash".


      source: Interfax-religion.com

      George C. Thomas
    • litto_81
      Respected George, The main faith of a nation plays a role in developing the culture of that nation.India s growth rate is often referred as Hindu rate of
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 1, 2013

        Respected George,


        The main faith of a nation plays a role in developing the culture of that nation.India's growth rate is often referred as 'Hindu rate of growth'.Protestantanism is comparitively a new faith.It was formed only in the 16th century.There is no doubt that the Protestants violated the 'catholic and apostolic' faith.However the founders of that faith developed a culture such that they are easily adaptive to changes.They were the first to welcome capitalism,democracy and globalisation.That is the reason why protestant majority nations like USA,UK and Germany are the most developed nations in the world.

                                                     We can see this in our little kerala also.Kumbanad is the village in kerala which has the maximum protestant Christians.It is also the richest village in kerala.It was the people of Kumbanad who first went to USA and Gulf.That lead to their growth.In my opinion what Orthodox nations can do is that they have to develop a culture which will create growth and jobs.That will help them in long run and it will take them to the top of the world.


        Regards,

        Litto

        Niranam 



        --- In indianorthodox@yahoogroups.com, <george_cthomas@...> wrote:

        Christian Orthodox nations have true economic prospects - Russian Church official

        Moscow, August 9, Interfax - Head of the Synodal Department for Church and Society Relations Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin does not agree with those who believe Orthodox countries to be most depressive in economic sense.

        "Today many people with scorn and disregard speak of Orthodox nations as economically unsuccessful. They build diagrams illustrating the dependence of economic prosperity from religion. They believe that atheists are most successful, Protestants are a little less successful, Catholics - even less and Orthodox are the poorest and the most unhappy," Father Vsevolod said answering the questions at the website of the Synodal Information Department.

        Instead of arguing with the scheme, the priest reminded that "many modern economists who are not keen on market fundamentalism say that growth of economy and demand can be endless and nations that can give up the idea of constant and uncontrolled growth will be more successful when this growth will stop."

        According to Fr. Vsevolod "sooner or later it will stop as resources of the planet are limited and demand, even senseless, can't grow forever."

        Believing that "it is necessary to transfer from economy of growth to economy of self-sufficiency," the priest noted that "self-sufficiency and self-limitation in acquiring earthly goods were always characteristic of Orthodox civilization."

        "Its traditions teach not to endlessly multiply material riches, but to be happy with the little, or at least sensible amount of earthly goods. I think that the future belongs to such attitude. Today we should interpret it in categories of economic science and building economic system," Father Vsevolod said.

        He is sure that such model will be much more successful than an idea of eternal growth and unlimited demand that cannot end in anything but "crash".


        source: Interfax-religion.com

        George C. Thomas
      • george_cthomas
        Survey: Hindus Have the Lowest Divorce Rate in USA., Among Christians, Orthodox have the lowest divorce rate. http://religions.pewforum.org/comparisons # So it
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 3, 2013

          Survey: Hindus Have the Lowest Divorce Rate in USA., Among Christians, Orthodox have the lowest divorce rate.

           

          http://religions.pewforum.org/comparisons#

           

          So it is clear that if we develop a culture that is easily adaptive to changes, divorce rate increases. If we conduct a survey of divorce  in Malankara Orthodox community, iam sure that majority of cases the female partner will be from protestant denomination. But unfortunately our Church leadership is not bold enough to conduct a survey on divorce rate and the religious affiliation of female partner before marriage.

           

          George C. Thomas

           

          Kuwait

           

           

           

           



          --- In IndianOrthodox@yahoogroups.com, <indianorthodox@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          Respected George,


          The main faith of a nation plays a role in developing the culture of that nation.India's growth rate is often referred as 'Hindu rate of growth'.Protestantanism is comparitively a new faith.It was formed only in the 16th century.There is no doubt that the Protestants violated the 'catholic and apostolic' faith.However the founders of that faith developed a culture such that they are easily adaptive to changes.They were the first to welcome capitalism,democracy and globalisation.That is the reason why protestant majority nations like USA,UK and Germany are the most developed nations in the world.

                                                       We can see this in our little kerala also.Kumbanad is the village in kerala which has the maximum protestant Christians.It is also the richest village in kerala.It was the people of Kumbanad who first went to USA and Gulf.That lead to their growth.In my opinion what Orthodox nations can do is that they have to develop a culture which will create growth and jobs.That will help them in long run and it will take them to the top of the world.


          Regards,

          Litto

          Niranam 



          --- In indianorthodox@yahoogroups.com, <george_cthomas@...> wrote:

          Christian Orthodox nations have true economic prospects - Russian Church official

          Moscow, August 9, Interfax - Head of the Synodal Department for Church and Society Relations Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin does not agree with those who believe Orthodox countries to be most depressive in economic sense.

          "Today many people with scorn and disregard speak of Orthodox nations as economically unsuccessful. They build diagrams illustrating the dependence of economic prosperity from religion. They believe that atheists are most successful, Protestants are a little less successful, Catholics - even less and Orthodox are the poorest and the most unhappy," Father Vsevolod said answering the questions at the website of the Synodal Information Department.

          Instead of arguing with the scheme, the priest reminded that "many modern economists who are not keen on market fundamentalism say that growth of economy and demand can be endless and nations that can give up the idea of constant and uncontrolled growth will be more successful when this growth will stop."

          According to Fr. Vsevolod "sooner or later it will stop as resources of the planet are limited and demand, even senseless, can't grow forever."

          Believing that "it is necessary to transfer from economy of growth to economy of self-sufficiency," the priest noted that "self-sufficiency and self-limitation in acquiring earthly goods were always characteristic of Orthodox civilization."

          "Its traditions teach not to endlessly multiply material riches, but to be happy with the little, or at least sensible amount of earthly goods. I think that the future belongs to such attitude. Today we should interpret it in categories of economic science and building economic system," Father Vsevolod said.

          He is sure that such model will be much more successful than an idea of eternal growth and unlimited demand that cannot end in anything but "crash".


          source: Interfax-religion.com

          George C. Thomas
        • Dmat
          The new word Orthodox Civilization, could deserve modern impact of economic realities.Examples of Kumbanad.The migration to Industrial world and medium of
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 9, 2013
            The new word Orthodox Civilization, could deserve modern impact of economic realities.Examples of Kumbanad.The migration to Industrial world and medium of Dollar conversions to local currency could enhanced peoples purchasing power of parity in economic sense.Now the Chinas Commercial empire reshaping western Industrial world.The new world orders controlled by energy sector and total industrial output.The currency impact changes to various modes.ages back when the currency printed equal value of Gold supposed to kept in the security mint. But later it is changed to just printing currency with art of manipulation linked to sensex operations. But still the worldwide economic collapse not happened with so called balance of trade.Some countries used oil as weapons and its currency value. But Brics and affiliated nations follows its own projected funds to mange any anticipated economic meltdown.But the economic act of Global Balance no one can force with superior nature of world status.World resources may not declines until total destructions of the earth.There are thousands of food sources available in the great seven wonders of oceans.The immigration sides of Human as a resource and survival of the fittest theory still doubts to the so called industrial world.The material affordable standard to general level has been dramatically increased such as in India and other east European countries.The Kumbanad culture was the intention to migrate developed world with protestant theory could be an art of capitalist theory.The world turned to Virtual capital with modern payment gateways.Now the word capital changed to electronic figure through computer data.The view of capital supposed be in a physical material products turned to EFT( Electronic Fund Trades) in real time transactions.
            The Orthodox Civilization, How we can act collectively to combat economic in-balance to affected world still a question ?

            David, Thachireth,
            STGOC, Punalur.
          • george_cthomas
            Capitalism’s ideology by the Rev. Hierotheos, Metropolitan of Nafpaktos and Saint Vlassios Nowadays, two prominent ways of life prevail in mankind, which
            Message 5 of 5 , Sep 11, 2013

               Capitalism’s ideology

              by the Rev. Hierotheos, Metropolitan of Nafpaktos and Saint Vlassios

              Nowadays, two prominent ways of life prevail in mankind, which have been transformed into two ideologies respectively; that is, Western individualism and Eastern collectivism.  In Western individualism, characterized by liberalism, an unbridled freedom of the individual prevails, along with competition which is a detrimental factor to society overall. In Eastern collectivism state dominance prevails, which undermines people’s freedom. In both instances, man is overlooked as a person, just as human society is not regarded as a society of human persons.

               

               

               

               

              These two systems of living and ideological models are both made manifest in societal reality. Liberalism prevails in the West and its “headquarters” are the United States of America – the “Mecca” of globalization, while collectivism appeared in countries of the former Soviet Union, but also in countries of the Far East in general.

               

              In both cases capital has a prominent place, except that it is differentiated in who possesses it and who manages it. In liberalism, capital ends up among the few and it moves, mostly unrestrained, along the principle of market self-adjustment. In collectivism-communism, capital is state-controlled. In both cases the average person is victimized, the difference being that he is victimized either by the oligarchy of a handful of wealthy tycoons or by an insatiable State.  Capitalism thus has only a callous face to show.

               

              The view has been expressed that capitalism is the creation of Western individualism and especially of Protestant morality, as indicated by Max Weber, and that it aspires to the accumulation of wealth by a few, while Marxism, which originated from Marx’s views, is only a reaction to capitalism and is concerned with the whole of society. Deep down however, both these systems are the offspring of the same, Western metaphysics - given that Marx was a German Jew raised in the West - however his theories, which were born in the Western “sphere”, were transfused to the East, because that was where the practice of Orthodox Christianity existed, with its principles of common ownership and communal use and could therefore be implemented.

               

              In our day, we have become witnesses to the crumbling of both these two systems, but equally of their ideologies. In the period between 1989 and 1991, collectivism-Communism collapsed in the countries of the former Soviet Union where State power dominated over people’s social and financial lives, while in our day, we are witnessing the collapse of liberalism with its mentality of “free markets” and the market “self-adjustment”, which functions to the detriment of society overall. Of course it should be noted that the bankruptcy of Communism cannot be regarded as a vindication of Capitalism, just as the collapse of Capitalism cannot be ascribed to Communism. It is the failure of capital’s ideology, which is totally disrespectful of people’s poverty.

               

              At any rate, both these systems are contrary to the Orthodox teaching in its perfect form, since neither liberalism nor Marxism – as ideologies and world theories – can be accepted by Orthodox Tradition, in which extensive mention is made to avoid the passion of avarice, but also about the experiencing of love towards fellow-man, especially those who are suffering. This combination of love and freedom solves the problem altogether, given that the freedom of the individual/person without the element of love will lead to unbridled liberalism, and the love of the whole minus the freedom of the individual will result in unbridled collectivism.

               

              To anticipate a possible objection to the above, I will admit that unfortunately, the ideology behind the capitalist system with its two forms – the individualist and the state-controlled – has In certain cases influenced and continues to influence the lives of certain Orthodox communities. This can be discerned in several contemporary monasteries also, which, instead of being examples of coenobitic living and the revival of the original community of Jerusalem, are nevertheless operating along the contemporary capitalist system’s model, in which case, we could aptly label this phenomenon “Orthodox Capitalism”.

               

              Whereas monks proclaim and basically adhere to the virtue of non-possession and communal possession, still, they continue to amass – for better or for worse – both lands and funds for the monasteries and take risks by playing with that property, utilizing every capitalistic-liberalistic means to increment it. In other words, monks are striving to live with indigence inside wealthy monasteries and they develop both social and political power.

               

              This situation reminds me of certain Eastern European countries – Romania for example – where the people went hungry and were in fact non-possessors (albeit involuntarily) and yet its leaders amassed wealth and built majestic mansions-palaces (for example Nicolae Ceausescu).  However, this mentality is not favoured by the teaching of the Church and Orthodox monasticism, which asks of the monk to lack any personal possessions and the monasteries to be places of philanthropy, love and multi-faceted healing. In the Orthodox Tradition, Sacred Monasteries are spiritual infirmaries.

               

              We clergymen and monks need to understand that everything legal is not necessarily ethical, but also that everything ethical – according to the rules of social ethics – is not necessarily Orthodox, from the aspect that Orthodox, Gospel ethics differ from secular ethics and are in reality ascetic by nature.  We should not only condemn the amassing of material wealth by specific individuals; we also need to condemn the amassing of material wealth by “ecclesiastic communities” for display, as well as stigmatize the participation of ecclesiastic personages and communities in the games of the capitalist system and the liberal or neo-liberal market.

               

              We Christians, especially the clergy and monks, must display in practice that which we believe in and preach, otherwise we will be dishonest and hypocrites. We must fend off the temptation to be possessed by a particular, “Christian capitalist” ideology.

              Orthodox Outlet for Dogmatic Enquiries

               

              George C. Thomas

               

               

               

               

               


               

               

               
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