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Re: Christendom’s Greatest Cathedral to become a Mosque?

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  • litto_81
    Respected Philip achen, Turkey is a nation which takes pride in its secularism.Muslim majority nations are in general not secular and Turkey was always an
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 30, 2013
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      Respected Philip achen,

      Turkey is a nation which takes pride in its secularism.Muslim majority nations are in general not secular and Turkey was always an exception.It is sad to see that fundamentalism is growing there also.In modern world two things are growing,first is Materialism and second is fundamentalism.We can see this in kerala also.RSS is growing among Hindus,NDF is growing among Muslims and Pentacostals are growing among Christians.

      The splits in the church that happened in the early stage of Christianity had some contribution to the growth of Islam in
      the middle east.The church in the middle east was affected by the splits on Nestorianism and Chalcedon synod.These splits didnot touch
      the western church.Islamic invasion in middle east came at a time when the non-chalcedons(oriental orthodox) were persecuted by the
      chalcedons(Greeks).Persecuted christians welcomed the Islamic rulers hoping that it would end persecution.The Islamic rulers treated all
      Churches as equal and provided freedom of worship to all churches.However religious minorities(Christians & Jews) were treated as second class citizens.Their many rights were curtailed and they have to pay tax for their faith.Gradually they also started to proselytise people to Islam.Also the birth rates among muslims were higher.All these factors lead to the dominance of Islam in the Arab world.

      If we look at history, Islamic empires existed in many western nations like Spain,Portugal and some Italian states.since Christians were united in those nations they could not survive much and gradually those empires collapsed.If the Unfortunate splits of Ephesus and Chalcedon synods did not happen,Middle east will not be Islamic like we see today.

      Regards,
      Litto
      Niranam
    • george_tereb
      Dear Litto Thank you for taking this posting serious enough to reflect on some of the Oriental Orthodox Christians perhaps chosing the Islamic conquerors as an
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 2, 2013
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        Dear Litto

        Thank you for taking this posting serious enough to reflect on some of the Oriental Orthodox Christians perhaps chosing the Islamic conquerors as an aid to end the persecution from the Eastern Orthodox who were trying to impose the decisions of their Chalcedonian council.

        Influence of Rome could possibly be a historical reason that I feel which could have compounded the effect.

        I read in a Sunday School text sometime back St. Basil staing how the Romans had a haughty self important feeling of superiority over the other Christian communities. Also from some brief reading of Fr. V.C Samuel's writing show that Rome have had the intention of being like oveseer of the other Churches long before Chalcedon. Unfortunately for them, it could not materialize because Emperor Constantine shifted his capital to Constantinopole around AD 330, which took importance over the old capital of Rome.Also the theological schools flourished in Antioch and Alexandria surpassing Rome.

        After the council of Ephesius, highlite of differences were theological interpretation of schools of Antioch and Alexandria on the person of Jesus Christ and the Alexandrian side suucesfully defended the Orthodox Christian faith (St. Cyril of Alexadria over Patriach Nestorus of Constantinopole who was a strong proponant of the Antiochene School)

        This rivlary among the schools gave the right opporunity to Rome and Pope Leo I their Patriach

        See this article on Pope Leo

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_I

        " ...In 445, Leo disputed with Patriarch Dioscorus, St. Cyril's successor as Patriarch of Alexandria, insisting that the ecclesiastical practice of his see should follow that of Rome on the basis that Mark the Evangelist, the disciple of Saint Peter and founder of the Alexandrian Church, could have had no other tradition than that of the prince of the apostles. This, of course, was not the position of the Copts, who saw the ancient patriarchates as equals."

        ( On a side note some of my friends from Syrian Orthodox Patriachate use the similar kind of claim over the Catholicate)

        The article also show that Pope Leo could extend his influence at Chalcedon. However the Orthodox Christians who didnot support Chalcedon still remained adamant to their faith and efforts happened to find common grounds with those who did, even amidst hardship and struggles. Rome failed again to gain authority and it had to go through other means by turning to west to imporove its status like crowning of German Emperor Charlamagene , making the Crusades to happen etc.

        Constantinopole became also rich and influential up to 12th Century. Eventually the empire of Christian Eastern Orthodoxy in the east was reduced to just the capital and its environs. This was the city that fell to the Ottomans in the historic battle of May 29, 1453.

        I presume because of the failure of anyone to capture Constantinopole till then and vast monetary influence must have led the Byzantine Emperors to be over confident and paying off in cash anyone that had any plans on attacking their great city Constantinopole.


        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantinople
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Constantinople

        The site above shows the influence of Rome , and how they tried to use same tactic used on our Saint Dioscoros with the Eastern Orthodox of Constantinopole that led to the split from 1054, their attempt to sack Constaninpole in 1204 , their failed attempt again in trying to unite with Eastern Orthodox because of filoque clause ,the Emperor of Constantinopole even attempting to unite with Roman Church though opposed by Laity and Greek Patriach and how even when the Roman Church tried to get help from western kings they met with failure.

        If we are looking at history, it is also best to read a little about Mehmed the Conqueror and see that he too was a valiant man bend on overcoming the shame that he suffered at the defeat of his father by the hands of Constantinopole.

        http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~fisher/hst373/readings/nicol.html
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmed_II

        Thank You

        George Varghese
        Calgary,Canada



        --- In IndianOrthodox@yahoogroups.com, "litto_81" <litto_81@...> wrote

        > The splits in the church that happened in the early stage of Christianity had some contribution to the growth of Islam in
        the middle east.The church in the middle east was affected by the splits on Nestorianism and Chalcedon synod.These splits didnot touch
        the western church.Islamic invasion in middle east came at a time when the non-chalcedons(oriental orthodox) were persecuted by the
        > chalcedons(Greeks).Persecuted christians welcomed the Islamic rulers hoping that it would end persecution.The Islamic rulers treated all > Churches as equal and provided freedom of worship to all churches.However religious minorities(Christians & Jews) were treated as second class citizens.Their many rights were curtailed and they have to pay tax for their faith.Gradually they also started to proselytise people to Islam.Also the birth rates among muslims were higher.All these factors lead to the dominance of Islam in the Arab world....
        If we look at history, Islamic empires existed in many western nations like Spain,Portugal and some Italian states.since Christians were united in those nations they could not survive much and gradually those empires collapsed.If the Unfortunate splits of Ephesus and Chalcedon synods did not happen,Middle east will not be Islamic like we see today.<
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