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RE: Catholicate Day Collections

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  • George Z
    WITH REGARD TO THE ABOVE SUBJECT, I AM SORRY TO DISAGREE WITH THE ICON MODERATORS. ACCORDING TO OUR H. BIBLE WE ARE LIABLE TO PAY THE TITHE, SO WE HAVE TO
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 18 1:12 AM
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      WITH REGARD TO THE ABOVE SUBJECT, I AM SORRY TO DISAGREE WITH THE ICON MODERATORS.

      ACCORDING TO OUR H. BIBLE WE ARE LIABLE TO PAY THE TITHE, SO WE HAVE TO REQUEST/ CONVINCE OUR BROTHERS TO MAKE THE OFFERING OF 1 MONTH’S TITHE OR 1 DAY’S INCOME FOR THE H. CHURCH. MOREOVER OUR BROTHERS WILL GET A CLEAR MESSAGE/GUIDANCE ABOUT THEIR CONTRIBUTION. IF IT IS A 'DONATION' FOR A STRANGER THEN WE CAN GIVE AS PER OUR WISH. BUT THIS IS AN OFFERING TO OUR H.FATHER/H.CHURCH.

      PLEASE REMEMBER OUR OSTHATHEOS THIRUMENI WHO WAS ALWAYS GIVING IMPORTANCE FOR THE TITHE.

      KIND REGARDS

      George Z, Abu Dhabi
    • Abraham
      I agree with Mr. George Z, Abu Dhabi regarding Catholicate Day collection - instead of a fixed amount we should give at least a day’s worth income to the
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 18 4:40 PM
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        I agree with Mr. George Z, Abu Dhabi regarding Catholicate Day collection - instead of a fixed amount we should give at least a day’s worth income to the Catholicos.

        Somehow we make feel ourselves good by preaching equality in giving to the church, that means equal amount.

        For example, the guideline, for this year, for a US resident is $50 per family. This amount is 18% of a person’s weekly salary who earns minimum wages and 2.5% of a typical mid-career employee. The fixed amount collection is disproportionally skewed towards who earns very less and who can’t afford.

        I think, instead of the Catholicate Day collection, each parish should give 10% of their total revenue to the Catholicos. In a similar way, the parishes should give 10% of the revenue to the Diocesan Bishops too.

        If the parishes pay 10% of their revenue it has two advantages (1) Each parish as a legal entity gives tithe and thus becomes a good role model for the parishioners and (2) the Catholicos and diocesan bishop can plan the charity and development work they envision.

        It is easy to implement this idea without any ratification from the diocese or from the Catholicate office. Each parish knows their total revenues and make sure that they send at least that amount to the Catholicate office.

        The Greek Orthodox Church operates something around this concept. Each parishes give their dues to the diocesan office and they are assessed by their revenues. Not a bad idea to try.

        Thank you for giving a thought for this idea.

        ~Abraham Chirackal, Davenport, Iowa
      • susan
        Dear sir, In Kerala the Catholicate day contribution is, I understand, Rs.100/ per family in small churches and Rs.150/ in larger churches. This is the minimum
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 20 8:45 PM
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          Dear sir,
          In Kerala the Catholicate day contribution is, I understand, Rs.100/ per family in small churches and Rs.150/ in larger churches. This is the minimum to reach the target, as I understand it. It is not the maximum a person can contribute. Each can contribute according to his ability subject to this minimum.

          This is a very reasonable amount for Kerala. Even a house maid earns apprx Rs. 100 per hour. A contribution of Rs.100/ or Rs. 150/ once a year is reasonable. Whatever, a large parish with 300 members would have to remit 300 x 150 = 45000/ to the center.

          Supposing we donate more, what happens to the surplus?
          If some donate more and some less, and the total is short of Rs. 45000/ I think the parish makes good the difference.

          I know many who never pay anything. To them, this Kalpana is not going to make any change. In St Gregorios Church, a former vicar used to tell us to donate whatever we feel like giving, even if it is only Rs.10/, but to be part of the effort. So those who pay more cover up for those who pay less. It is OK, is it not?

          HH Bava Thirumeni has been very reasonable. We have small churches, charitable organizations, diocese, our church requirements, vanitha samajoms, youth forum, secular charities and local places of worship as well as other organizations seeking monetary aid and we cannot deny any. We also have several individuals who require our support.

          A parish is made up of pensioners and young families with growing children and who are setting up their homes besides established rich persons.

          Bava Thirumeni has been very caring in fixing this for Kerala. His Holiness has lowered the bar to enable universal participation and each can be comforted with the thought that they have given at least as much as is expected of them. When a higher amount or share is demanded, there is inequality between rich and poor and also in the comfort of giving. The amounts are published yearly.

          As far as I know, $50 could be anything from 1/2 a day's salary to one hours salary or less for most malayalies abroad. Can you subsist in USA with less than $3000/ per month?

          I could be wrong, but this Kalpana seemed to me to be a caring Kalpana, far different from most voices around which goes "Gimme, Gimme, Gimme.'

          It is also prepared according to a budget.

          Thank You
          Susan Eapen
          Thiruvananthapuram
        • Geevar
          Hello Susan Eapen and others, Happy to see your posting about the contribution towards Catholicate Day Collection. If you are in Kerala, please encourage
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 21 1:55 PM
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            Hello Susan Eapen and others,

            Happy to see your posting about the contribution towards Catholicate Day Collection. If you are in Kerala, please encourage people in Kerala to contribute towards Catholicate Day Collection. I did help in my local parish in Kerala for more than 5 years.

            Geevar K.
          • K N Thomas
            I have read through the detailed write-up by the very respected Mrs Susan Eapen, TRV, regrding Catholicate Day giving. The arguments/suggestions may be valid
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 22 2:39 AM
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              I have read through the detailed write-up by the very respected Mrs Susan Eapen, TRV, regrding Catholicate Day giving. The arguments/suggestions may be valid in her way.

              However, let me present my point of view. I agree with the suggestion that every body must contribute for this cause, however small the amount may be. But I have a strong feeling that many of us can contribute "one-day's income". Each head of the family may interpret it in his/her own way. I think, many (over 50%) of our parish families have average monthly income of the order of Rs. 20K. This would work out to be a daily income of ~Rs. 700/day. So, could we not peg our average contribution to be above Rs. 400 per family? Many can give above Rs1000.

              Remember, this is the only annual contribution we give for the many needs of our Mother Church. Also, remember Bava thirumeni has announced a new Charity endeavor for Rs. 100 crore. We can do it. We must do it. All parish-managing committee members must earnestly try to raise the Catholicate Day collection to at least 50% more than the target amount. Thank you for listening.

              May God help us to be cheerful givers!

              Dr. K N Thomas, MEC, Kottayam.
            • George Z
              Dear moderators/friends, Appreciate very much the suggestion by Dr. K.N. Thomas, Kottayam and Mr. Abraham Chirackal, Davenport. Regarding the contribution of
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 23 10:46 PM
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                Dear moderators/friends,

                Appreciate very much the suggestion by Dr. K.N. Thomas, Kottayam and Mr. Abraham Chirackal, Davenport.

                Regarding the contribution of Catholicate Day collections, please convince our people the importance of tithe for God's work as per word of God so that we will be blessed, eventually our Church will get more blessings. So that we can avoid the unnecessary expenses like hospital charges/court cases etc.

                I suggest please contribute one day income or one month's tithe for Catholicate Day collections and let ICON be a fruitful medium to encourage more people to actively take part in this venture!

                Kind regards,
                George Z, Abu Dhabi
              • Indian Orthodox
                Respected All, It is our age old practice to contribute one day average income as our Catholicate Day offerings (ie one third of our monthly tithe). I strongly
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 24 5:34 AM
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                  Respected All,

                  It is our age old practice to contribute one day average income as our Catholicate Day offerings (ie one third of our monthly tithe). I strongly believe a little more commitment and imagination on the part of our Vicars to motivate the Parishners can do wonders. Our Jacobite Priests are way ahead in this regard. If 100,000 believers contribute Rs 1,000 equivalent (ie US$ 18), the corpus will be RS 10 Crores. In this regard we should learn from our Muslim and Penticostal brethren. Even Marthomites are much better.

                  While a majority of us are good in giving sermons to others and lip service only, everything is a ritual. The market value of land property anywhere is Kerala has appreciated at least 10 times in the last 5 years and a large chunk of land property is in the hands of Syrian Christians. Our Bava Thirumeni still has to beg!

                  A very serious introspection is the need of the hour and the change has to happen within us.

                  Prayers,
                  George Abraham, Abu Dhabi
                • Abraham
                  Dear Mrs. Susan Eapen et al, The premise I tried to raise was (1) the Catholicate Day `cover pirivu is an antiquated method which needs re-thinking, instead a
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 24 12:57 PM
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                    Dear Mrs. Susan Eapen et al,

                    The premise I tried to raise was (1) the Catholicate Day `cover pirivu' is an antiquated method which needs re-thinking, instead a fixed percentage (say 10%, 5%, or whatever) of the total revenue of the parish should be allocated for this purpose and (2) everybody paying the same amount is inherently unjust because of vertical inequity – members high on the economic ladder contributing proportionally very less.

                    Answering Mrs. Susan's question, yes there are lot of us who earn less than $3,000 per month. In the USA, if you are not a professional or do not have good skills, $10 per hour is a good wage and well above the minimum wage. After mandatory minimum deductions, they bring home around $340 a week; that means a monthly salary of $1,470 per month. There are many in our community who earns this amount or less and maintain a family.

                    One day income for the Catholicate Day is a universally understandable plan. Ideally this option should be given only to people who do not have parishes in their immediate proximity. For longevity and success of the collection, a percentage of the revenue is the right method.

                    These are some of the additional ideas for your thought –
                    Each Parish:
                    (1) Allocate 10% of the parish revenue to the Diocese
                    (2) Allocate at 5% of the parish revenue to the Mother Church – Catholicate Day
                    (3) Each Cathedral should pay an additional 2% of the revenue to the Mother Church

                    It is the responsibility of the parish priest and the committee to give this money to the Diocese and the Mother Church. This also means we should abolish yearly Catholicate Day `cover pirivu', antiquated Reseesha and diocesan collections.

                    Thank you for reading.

                    ~Abraham Chirackal, Davenport, Iowa
                  • susan
                    Dear Mr Chirakkal Your suggestion is a very good one. The contribution from the local church s revenue is a really good idea. One day s income is what has been
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 25 10:33 AM
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                      Dear Mr Chirakkal
                      Your suggestion is a very good one. The contribution from the local church's revenue is a really good idea.

                      One day's income is what has been sought in the letter regarding Catholicate day issued to us all.So I understand that the Rs. 100 / is the minimum expected.

                      As I understand, in Kerala, a large number of people do not contribute anything for Catholicate Day. I understand this from the lists published during elections.

                      Eligibility is based on confession and communion at least once during the FY and payment of all dues to the Church and all the 'cover pirivu.'

                      So if we change the Catholicate Day dues norms, eligibility for voting would also change.

                      Susan Eapen
                      Thiruvananthapuram
                    • Roy Samuel (SCMD)
                      Are Penticostal brethren and Marthomites much better? Their method of collection is by demand and force. Their Pastors and Priests discreetly explore the
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 26 3:50 AM
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                        Are Penticostal brethren and Marthomites much better?

                        Their method of collection is by demand and force. Their Pastors and Priests discreetly explore the earnings of members and specify what should be the contribution of each family during fund raising. If they do not pay, then a bunch of members, perhaps the managing committee with the Priest, will make a visit to the member�s residence to persuade for higher contribution.

                        My dear, ORTHODOX is different. The Bible says offer and vows should be willingly given. The same is with the Catholic, they only request.

                        Roy Samuel, Abu Dhabi
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