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Re: On Antioch, Persia and Arch deacon

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  • Thomas Kuttikandathil, Houston
    Dear and respected all, Let me thank all the friends who replied my posting regarding the above subject.I was only highlighting and connecting a recent
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 27, 2010
      Dear and respected all,

      Let me thank all the friends who replied my posting regarding the above subject.I was only highlighting and connecting a recent incident with the ancient history of the Malankara church.
      2.I appreciate the stand taken by mr.B.Kuriakose(ICON#3745) and mr. Babu Kurian (ICON#3757)to highlight and support the stand taken by me.
      3.I never mentioned in my original posting in ICON # 3736 that,it is the correct procedure of consecrating a bishop as Rev.John achen pointed out.
      4.Dear mr. Sanjay Thannikottu ( ICON # 3751),through my postings I was not advocating to go back to the old Kaldaya traditions.
      5.Now to dear mr. Thomas S.J.(ICON # 3751)please read Rev.John achen's message once again to see whether achen has mentioned 'Church of antioch as mother of all christendem' in it.Let me reply for the two points which you have mentioned.
      7.You said'' let us not blame syrian orthodox church for the division,but the marthoma church has the greatest role in the present division of the church.Let us discuss it one by one.
      8.We the orthodox church as a whole is an excommunicated lot in the eyes of the syrian orthodox church.H.H.Ougen bava was ex communicated by the then patriarch.For what ?Because Ougen bava was using red ink in the letter head,using the word His Holiness which the patriarch think is only reserved for the patriarch,and claiming to be seated on the throne of St.Thomas all which the predecessor H.H.Geevarghese 2nd bava was using without anybody's objection.The supreme head of the orthodox church,all metropolitans, and all the faithfuls are ex communicated by the patriarch of the syrian orthodox church.Still you say they are not to be blamed for the division.Patriarchs from A to Z follow the same thing.
      9.The marthoma church is not at all to be blamed for our present division.You may be pickingup a thread from the Palakkunnathu thirumeni.That history in a nut shell is as follows.
      10.In 1836 the Malankara mtropolitan Cheppad Thirumeni used the patriarch as a trump card to cut the English missionaries who wanted to anglicanise the malankara church, through the Mavelikkara padiyola.
      12.Palakkunnathu Mathews mar Athanasios used the same trump card to cut Cheppad thirumeni by travelling up to Antioch to get cosecrated as the malankara metropolitan and he was the first bishop from malankara to get cnsecrated directly by a patriarch in 1843.
      13.Pulikkottil 2nd thirumeni also followed the same ,went up to antioch to get cosecrated as malankara metropolitan in 1864 to cut palakkunnathu thirumeni.
      13.When palakunnathu thirumeni could not retain his malankara metropolitan position he consecrated his family member Thomas mar athanasios in 1868 to succeed him, through the legal battle with pulikkottil thirumeni.Now the only way for pulikottil thirumeni was to bring the Patriarch to malankara to sort out the problem created by Palakkunnathu thirumeni.(pardon me for equating this incident in a 'naadan parlance' which can be translated like this--the venom inflicted on the body of the malankara church was to be extracted by the same cobra.)Thus for the first time a Patriarch( Peter III )came to malankara in 1876..When Palakkunnathu Thomas mar Athanasios lost the legal battle against Pulikkottil thirumeni in the royal court they formed a new church the 'Marthoma church' with the supporters called' Naveekaranakkar' then.
      14.So the marthoma church or the jacobite church need not to be blamed for the division but the power hungry individuals like palakkunnathu thirumeni,Ivaniose thirumeni,and H.B.Thomas I thirumeni are to be blamed for the divisions.
      15.By 1909 the patriarchs started tightening the grip on malankara church which saint Vattasseril thirumeni resisted like a steel rock.The rest is the history with in the last 100 years.
      16. Now the group led by H.B. will never come out of this grip as the S.O.C. have a written constitution. But individuals can get rid of the shackles by joining the main stream Indian orthodox church.Only thing they have to understand is the following equations.a) Malankara orthodox church is a member of the oriental orthodox family.b) All oriental orthodox churches are equal.c)M.O.C. is in communion with all O.O.Churches.d) All the heads of O.O.Churches are equal ie.H.H.Zakka I = H.H.Aram I = H.H. Didymus I = H.H.Zakka I.All those understood this points are in the I.O.C.now.
      17.Now let me take you back to the arch deacon.It was not a mere administrative position like a vicar general in some churches or a priest trustee.There is no need to elevate a priest to an administrative position before consecrating as a bishop.

      With Prayers,
      Thomas Kuttikandathil, Houston.
    • Suraj Iype, Alibag
      Dear Sir, This is regarding the position of Archdeacon. In the Church of the East we see one significant difference from other Eastern and Oriental Churches.
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 28, 2010
        Dear Sir,

        This is regarding the position of Archdeacon. In the Church of the East we see one significant difference from other Eastern and Oriental Churches.
        This position was at various times known both in the Latin, Eastern, Oriental and the Nestorian Church.

        In the West Syriac/ Byzantine church the Archdeacon is of the ranks of the Deaconate.
        In the East Syrian Church the Archdeacon was selected from the ranks of the Priests and ranked second to the Bishop.

        Yet the duties executed by the Archdeacons in both the traditions are roughly the same.
        The Archdeacons of the East Syriac Church acted as lower ranked prelates; the Deans of the college of Presbyters and assistants to the Bishops, roughly we can see them as equivalent to the Protosyncellus /Vicar Generals of today's Latin or the Protopresbyter of the Slavic Orthodox tradition.

        A Corepisqupa was called a CorEpiscopa in the both the traditions, but in the East Syriac Church the Archdeacon who ranked above the Cor Episcopa was still called Archdeacon; this attests to the fact that at some point the East Syrian Church invested the duties of the Archdeacon to a ranking priest and made him assistant and auxiliary to the Bishop.

        In the Church of Constantinople there were Patriarchal Vicar deacons who wielded immense authority and power even over the bishops of the provinces. Situations came to a head and there exists a canon which regulates the rights of the Patriarchal Vicar Deacon vis-a-vis that of the priests and Bishops
        We often take the word Vicar to mean priest, however vicars can be bishops , priests or deacons. The term vicar refers to the function executed.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicar

        Further information regarding the position of Archdeacon in various traditions can be seen below
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archdeacon
        http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01693a.htm
        http://orthodoxwiki.org/Archdeacon

        In my understanding even in the East Syriac Church the Archdeaconate did not have a specific sacramental character exclusive to itself. It was primarily a position awarded to ranking priests in response to administrative requirements. The Archdeacon was still a priest.
        The same point is made by the link below in the second last paragraph
        http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14413a.htm

        The Catholicos/ Patriarch is the head of a local church and the first primate amongst all the Bishops and Metropolitans of a Province yet he is still an Episcopa. Christian ministry has only three basic divisions, the deaconate, the priesthood and the Episcopate.

        In our current rubrics for the consecration of Bishops, the Koruztho is to be done by the Archdeacon; today a ranking priest does it (in the last consecration it was done by Fr Johns Konatt in his position was Clergy trustee , I presume). If the Archdeaconate were to have a specific sacramental character, we would have to ordain an Arch-deacon for the purpose; the very fact that the duties were assigned to a priest who is an elected representative of the college of the clerics just shows the intent of what is demanded by the Rubrics.

        Then what was the reason for the East Syriac Churches to ordain bishop-elects to the Archdeaconate before ordination as Bishops?
        In the Eastern Catholic and Latin church, bishop elects are invested with some episcopal insignia even before ordination. They are handed over the ring, the right to wear purple trimmings etc immediately after their selection to become Bishops.
        This was just to emphasize their position as bishop elects and these privileges perhaps gave them some authority over diocesan priests and allowed them to start the work of administering the diocese as co-coadjutors of the Episcopa.

        The elevation of Bishop elects as Archdeacons prior to ordination as Bishops in the East Syriac Church flows from a similar logic.

        Suraj Iype, Alibag
      • Suraj Iype, Alibag
        Further to my earlier post, I want to post some more information regarding the Archdeaconate as understood in the East Syrian Church vis-a-vis the Syrian and
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 8, 2010
          Further to my earlier post, I want to post some more information regarding the Archdeaconate as understood in the East Syrian Church vis-a-vis the Syrian and other Orthodox Churches.

          In 2006, a Cathecism was printed by the Assyrian Church of the East
          ( or the Kaldaya Suriani Sabha of Trichur ) written by Fr CH Klutz and Fr George Toma and was printed by the Department of Religious Education of the Church of the East.

          From Chapter 20 which deals with Holy Orders

          1. How many levels or degrees are there in Holy Orders?

          There are three levels in the conveying of Holy Orders to the qualified and elected candidate. The first is that of Bishop, the second is that of Priest, and the third is that of the Deacon. This division is like unto that of our Lord's description of the ranks of the Angelic Hosts in Heaven, namely, that of Archangels, Angels, and Principalities.

          2.Are there differences between each level of Holy Orders?

          Yes! The Bishop has the power of the Holy Spirit to impart to others by the laying-on-of Apostolic hands, the grace to hallow the life giving Sacraments; whereas, the Priest's role is to hallow the Holy Gifts in dependence upon the Bishop of the Church; and the role of the Deacon, is to serve at the Holy Altar with his priest.

          The Bishop's powers are noted within the pages of the Sacred Scriptures in St Paul's letter to Titus, the Bishop in Crete, these words of instruction, " . . . for this cause I left you in Crete, that you should set in order they that are wanting and ordain qashishe (elders/priests) in every city where there is a need, as I have commanded to you . . ." (Titus 1:5) It is written by the same Apostle Paul to the young Bishop Timothy: " . . . do not lay hands hastily upon any man, neither be a partaker of other men's sin, keep yourself pure . . ." (I Tim 5:22)

          3.How many ranks are in the Apostolic Priesthood?

          Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself divided the priesthood ranks/orders, as the three ranks of Angels in Heaven.

          4. What are the three ranks of the Episcopacy?

          The Three ranks of the Episcopacy are; 1-) The Catholicos Patriarch (The Universal Father), 2-) Metropolitan/Archbishop, and 3-) Bishop Ordinary. These three ranks of the Episcopacy are equal with the first three ranks of the Holy Angels in Heaven; namely Cherubim, Seraphim, and Thrones.

          5. What are the three ranks of the Priesthood?

          The three ranks of the second group of the Priesthood are; The Archdeacon, The Chorbishop, and the Simple Priest. These three ranks are equal to the three ranks of the second group of angelic hosts, which are powers, rulers, and lords. These ranks are lower than the first group in power and authority.

          6.What are the three ranks of the Diaconate?

          The three ranks are the full Deacon, sub-Deacon and the Reader; these three ranks within the diaconate are equal to the three ranks of the angelic hosts; Arcos, Arch-angels and Angels. These three are lower than the previous in spiritual power and authority

          7. What are the duties and responsibilities of an Archdeacon?

          The duties of an Archdeacon is to organize the ecclesial services of worship within the Cathedral Church of his bishop; for each bishop is to have an Archdeacon to organize the services of worship within the/his Cathedral Church, in line with the directives of the Bishop of the Diocese. The word "archdeacon" is a Greek word which means, the head (arch), and the servants (diaconos). The Archdeacon will also be privileged to fulfill the ecclesial services of the Priesthood and/or the Diaconate; he is not permitted to ordain.
          http://www.acoeyouth.org/Learn/catechism/cat.html

          From the Chaldean Catholic Church (which is the Catholic uniate derived from the Persian Nestorian Church) we can see that the Vicar General is the Archdeacon.
          http://www.kaldu.org/2_st_peter_diocese/churches/churches.htm

          Suraj Iype, Alibag
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