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Revision of Liturgy/update

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  • OOMMEN KAPPIL
    Hope many of you will recall that we had some discussion last month on revision of our liturgy and the need for liturgy in English. The other day I heard from
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 1, 2001
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      Hope many of you will recall that we had some discussion last month on revision of our liturgy and the need for liturgy in English. The other day I heard  from a friend of mine that our Church is in the process of translating more of our liturgy to English. At least some of the sacraments have been translated, the Good Friday hymns also are being translated now. I heard that H.G. Mar Irenius (who currently lives in the US) is doing a great job with the translation, and is working under the direction of the Synod. (I was told that His Grace has Masters degree in Malayalam, and Ph. D in English literature.)


      This is a commendable step in the right direction. However, it is unfortunate that we, at least some of us, are kept in the dark about such positive activities. What is happening is not just poor communication, but lack of any communication at all. Any way, I'm sure the translation will help our Church, especially our young  generation.

      Oommen Kappil



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    • deaconaju@juno.com
      Dear Friends, Let me speak quickly on behalf of thirumeni on the issue of the translations and why it has not been publicized on a wide scale. It is true that
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 1, 2001
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        Dear Friends,

        Let me speak quickly on behalf of thirumeni on the issue of the
        translations and why it has not been publicized on a wide scale. It is
        true that Thirumeni (and while he was here some of us aided him) has
        completely translated the Matrimony and Baptism services, and is
        currently working on the Funeral services. HE has also translated some of
        the Hoyl Week Kaumas, and Good Friday songs. However, instead of having
        avrious unofficial copies out in different places, he wants to wait until
        the final approval from teh synod before distributing the final copies
        out. What happens with our people, is that they receive one copy of
        anything (English Qurbana, prayers, etc.) and when the next revised one
        comes, the won;t adjust to it, and what ends up happening is that there
        are various versions of teh same original. So we want to prevent that.
        Hoepfully we will have it out soon. With prayers, Aju Mathews Semassan

        +++++ Rev. Dn. Aju Mathews +++++
        St. George Malankara Orthodox Church of Staten Island, New
        York
        PHONE: (732) 938 7365/ CELL: (732) 586 3223
        "The secret of the Lord is with those who fear Him." - Psalms
        25:14

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      • jp
        An official translation is imperative. There are some excellent translations made by other oriental orthodox churches which can be used in our worship instead
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 2, 2001
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          An official translation is imperative.  There are some excellent translations made by other oriental orthodox churches which can be used in our worship instead of reinventingthe wheel. An official translation shall be the prodcuct of a committee not  by one individual even if he holds several degrees in different fileds. 
           
          NO bishop is infallibale and that is why we have a synod and committees to discuss official matters.
           
          Any individual effort is highly commendable but need not the official one.  Too many cooks ---.
           Thanks.   Joy Achan.
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 11:40 PM
          Subject: [IndianOrthodox] Revision of Liturgy/update


          Hope many of you will recall that we had some discussion last month on revision of our liturgy and the need for liturgy in English. The other day I heard  from a friend of mine that our Church is in the process of translating more of our liturgy to English. At least some of the sacraments have been translated, the Good Friday hymns also are being translated now. I heard that H.G. Mar Irenius (who currently lives in the US) is doing a great job with the translation, and is working under the direction of the Synod. (I was told that His Grace has Masters degree in Malayalam, and Ph. D in English literature.)


          This is a commendable step in the right direction. However, it is unfortunate that we, at least some of us, are kept in the dark about such positive activities. What is happening is not just poor communication, but lack of any communication at all. Any way, I'm sure the translation will help our Church, especially our young  generation.

          Oommen Kappil



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        • Daniel Thomas
          Dear Joy Achan. At last I found one person in this forum, whom know what is Orthodoxy.. But unfortunately in our church indivijual is important, not the faith
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 2, 2001
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            Dear Joy Achan.

            At last I found one person in this forum, whom know what is Orthodoxy.. But
            unfortunately in our church indivijual is important, not the faith or
            orthodoxy. Hope ur comments will reach to the proper people.
            Keep It up
            Thomas Daniel


            >From: "jp" <joyp@...>
            >Reply-To: IndianOrthodox@egroups.com
            >To: <IndianOrthodox@egroups.com>
            >Subject: Re: [IndianOrthodox] Revision of Liturgy/update
            >Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 21:13:10 -0500
            >
            >An official translation is imperative. There are some excellent
            >translations made by other oriental orthodox churches which can be used in
            >our worship instead of reinventingthe wheel. An official translation shall
            >be the prodcuct of a committee not by one individual even if he holds
            >several degrees in different fileds.
            >
            >NO bishop is infallibale and that is why we have a synod and committees to
            >discuss official matters.
            >
            >Any individual effort is highly commendable but need not the official one.
            >Too many cooks ---.
            > Thanks. Joy Achan.
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: OOMMEN KAPPIL
            > To: IndianOrthodox@egroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 11:40 PM
            > Subject: [IndianOrthodox] Revision of Liturgy/update
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Hope many of you will recall that we had some discussion last month on
            >revision of our liturgy and the need for liturgy in English. The other day
            >I heard from a friend of mine that our Church is in the process of
            >translating more of our liturgy to English. At least some of the sacraments
            >have been translated, the Good Friday hymns also are being translated now.
            >I heard that H.G. Mar Irenius (who currently lives in the US) is doing a
            >great job with the translation, and is working under the direction of the
            >Synod. (I was told that His Grace has Masters degree in Malayalam, and Ph.
            >D in English literature.)
            >
            >
            >
            > This is a commendable step in the right direction. However, it is
            >unfortunate that we, at least some of us, are kept in the dark about such
            >positive activities. What is happening is not just poor communication, but
            >lack of any communication at all. Any way, I'm sure the translation will
            >help our Church, especially our young generation.
            >
            > Oommen Kappil
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            >
            >
            >

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          • jp
            thank you. what we have is a system of yes-man worship. When it comes to discipline, you re right, we go who said/did rather than what is said or done.
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 3, 2001
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              thank you. what we have is a system of yes-man worship. When it comes to
              discipline, you re right, we go "who said/did" rather than what is said or
              done.
              Regarding ranslation, an example is seen in the recent edition of
              Qurbanakramam, with the names of St. Thomas and Margregorios. These books
              were printed prior to the encyclical dated October, 2000.
              The current qurbanakrmama states it is another edition of the 1959 version.
              (1) it is not true, it is revised edition. (2) the new one did not come out
              with an introdcutory kalpana by His Holiness approving such chnages or
              expalining teh changes.
              (3) I bleieve the whole books (prayer books, good friday prayers, etc.)
              need revision- The church shall focus on that and spend money for it.
              A liturgical committee is past over overdue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAKE
              UP.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Daniel Thomas <daniel_reji@...>
              To: <IndianOrthodox@egroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 12:42 AM
              Subject: Re: [IndianOrthodox] Revision of Liturgy/update


              >
              > Dear Joy Achan.
              >
              > At last I found one person in this forum, whom know what is Orthodoxy..
              But
              > unfortunately in our church indivijual is important, not the faith or
              > orthodoxy. Hope ur comments will reach to the proper people.
              > Keep It up
              > Thomas Daniel
              >
              >
              > >From: "jp" <joyp@...>
              > >Reply-To: IndianOrthodox@egroups.com
              > >To: <IndianOrthodox@egroups.com>
              > >Subject: Re: [IndianOrthodox] Revision of Liturgy/update
              > >Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 21:13:10 -0500
              > >
              > >An official translation is imperative. There are some excellent
              > >translations made by other oriental orthodox churches which can be used
              in
              > >our worship instead of reinventingthe wheel. An official translation
              shall
              > >be the prodcuct of a committee not by one individual even if he holds
              > >several degrees in different fileds.
              > >
              > >NO bishop is infallibale and that is why we have a synod and committees
              to
              > >discuss official matters.
              > >
              > >Any individual effort is highly commendable but need not the official
              one.
              > >Too many cooks ---.
              > > Thanks. Joy Achan.
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: OOMMEN KAPPIL
              > > To: IndianOrthodox@egroups.com
              > > Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 11:40 PM
              > > Subject: [IndianOrthodox] Revision of Liturgy/update
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Hope many of you will recall that we had some discussion last month on
              > >revision of our liturgy and the need for liturgy in English. The other
              day
              > >I heard from a friend of mine that our Church is in the process of
              > >translating more of our liturgy to English. At least some of the
              sacraments
              > >have been translated, the Good Friday hymns also are being translated
              now.
              > >I heard that H.G. Mar Irenius (who currently lives in the US) is doing a
              > >great job with the translation, and is working under the direction of the
              > >Synod. (I was told that His Grace has Masters degree in Malayalam, and
              Ph.
              > >D in English literature.)
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > This is a commendable step in the right direction. However, it is
              > >unfortunate that we, at least some of us, are kept in the dark about such
              > >positive activities. What is happening is not just poor communication,
              but
              > >lack of any communication at all. Any way, I'm sure the translation will
              > >help our Church, especially our young generation.
              > >
              > > Oommen Kappil
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
              ---
              > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
              > > eGroups Sponsor
              > >
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > IndianOrthodox-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > _________________________________________________________________________
              > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > IndianOrthodox-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
            • abe.george@onebox.com
              Well stated Achen. Thank you. -- Abe George, Washington ... comes to ... said or ... books ... version. ... come out ... or ... etc.) ... it. ...
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 3, 2001
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                Well stated Achen. Thank you.

                -- Abe George, Washington
                **************************************************
                --- In IndianOrthodox@egroups.com, "jp" <joyp@m...> wrote:
                > thank you. what we have is a system of yes-man worship. When it
                comes to
                > discipline, you re right, we go "who said/did" rather than what is
                said or
                > done.
                > Regarding ranslation, an example is seen in the recent edition of
                > Qurbanakramam, with the names of St. Thomas and Margregorios. These
                books
                > were printed prior to the encyclical dated October, 2000.
                > The current qurbanakrmama states it is another edition of the 1959
                version.
                > (1) it is not true, it is revised edition. (2) the new one did not
                come out
                > with an introdcutory kalpana by His Holiness approving such chnages
                or
                > expalining teh changes.
                > (3) I bleieve the whole books (prayer books, good friday prayers,
                etc.)
                > need revision- The church shall focus on that and spend money for
                it.
                > A liturgical committee is past over
                overdue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAKE
                > UP.
              • jp
                thank you Abe. Happy new Year. we need mommentum. Pastoral ministry has to be contextual and dynamic. ... From: To:
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 3, 2001
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                  thank you Abe. Happy new Year. we need mommentum. Pastoral ministry has to
                  be contextual and dynamic.

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <abe.george@...>
                  To: <IndianOrthodox@egroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:52 PM
                  Subject: [IndianOrthodox] Re: Revision of Liturgy/update


                  > Well stated Achen. Thank you.
                  >
                  > -- Abe George, Washington
                  > **************************************************
                  > --- In IndianOrthodox@egroups.com, "jp" <joyp@m...> wrote:
                  > > thank you. what we have is a system of yes-man worship. When it
                  > comes to
                  > > discipline, you re right, we go "who said/did" rather than what is
                  > said or
                  > > done.
                  > > Regarding ranslation, an example is seen in the recent edition of
                  > > Qurbanakramam, with the names of St. Thomas and Margregorios. These
                  > books
                  > > were printed prior to the encyclical dated October, 2000.
                  > > The current qurbanakrmama states it is another edition of the 1959
                  > version.
                  > > (1) it is not true, it is revised edition. (2) the new one did not
                  > come out
                  > > with an introdcutory kalpana by His Holiness approving such chnages
                  > or
                  > > expalining teh changes.
                  > > (3) I bleieve the whole books (prayer books, good friday prayers,
                  > etc.)
                  > > need revision- The church shall focus on that and spend money for
                  > it.
                  > > A liturgical committee is past over
                  > overdue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAKE
                  > > UP.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > IndianOrthodox-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
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