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  • OOMMEN KAPPIL
    Revision of our Liturgy seems to be a necessary topic. I will add my suggestions on the topic a little later. Let s not get into any additional topics for the
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 13, 2000
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      Revision of our Liturgy seems to be a necessary topic. I will add my suggestions on the topic a little later. Let's not get into any additional topics for the time being. In the meantime, please suggest some more topics each one of you have in mind. Let me list a few:

      1. Revision of our Liturgy


      2. Updating and maintaining official web site of our diocese and / or our entire Indian Orthodox Church.


      3. How can we make our Services more appealing to our youth?


      4. How can we reform our Diocesan Administration?


      5. Future of American Diocese: How long can we depend on 'Kottayam'? What can we do?


      6. How can we improve laymen participation in Parish activities?




        Please list your topics too. We will have to pick one for a specific period, discuss and summarize before we go to the next topic.

      Regards


      Oommen



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    • stt8@columbia.edu
      I am new to the group and wanted to post concerning these Discussion Topics. 1. Revision of our Liturgy I am glad that there are many that are concerned
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 29, 2000
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        I am new to the group and wanted to post concerning these Discussion
        Topics.

        1. Revision of our Liturgy
        I am glad that there are many that are concerned whether the
        people that attend the qurbana are benefiting from them. I do not
        think the answer is to revise it. My opinion is to re-discover and
        appreciate it.
        About the length, someone said avoid the repetitions. Well they
        only need to be avoided if they are said without our hearts involved.
        But for that case it is best to not even say a 1 minute prayer if our
        hearts are not involved. However I dont feel the length is too long.
        The public celebration of the mass is about 1:15 minutes which is not
        too long. In its length resides the richness and beauty. Also dont
        simply assume that all young people want to cut the service down or
        remove anything. If we begin to cut stuff out where do we stop? We
        are called to be thanksgiving and praise giving people. HOw much is
        enough? Some one also said reduce the bible readings because there is
        no discussion on it. I disagree; we need to read teh bible as often
        as possible. If there is no discussion of the bible readings the
        fault is of the attendants and not the church's. Obviously we are not
        going to have a discussion in the middle of Qurbana. Why dont you
        call a small gathering after church where the biblical passages of
        the day are discussed.

        2. Updating and maintaining official web site of our diocese and /
        or our entire Indian Orthodox Church.
        NO COMMENT

        3. How can we make our Services more appealing to our youth?
        THe beauty of our services will become evident to anyone that
        seeks it. You have to make them want to see it. Let them take
        leadership roles in church, particularly in the youth groups. I also
        suggest that church set up days where the church arrangements and
        preperation and such is done by the Kids. Also the Bible readings
        before the public celebration of Qurbana can be done by anyone. So
        churches should allow the youth to read.
        Try to explain the meaning of the songs and the parts of the
        liturgy to the youth. Can I suggest Barnabas THirumeni's wonderful
        book on the Holy Qurbana.
        Also give the youth an opportunity to develop real friendships
        with each other based on Christ.
        Also there are 2 flawed approaches to youth that I see in our
        church.
        1) THey are a PROBLEM: No there are many of us that love
        Christ and see the Church as teh means to an honest relationship with
        Christ. When these inviduals are tendend unto good things will happen.
        2) THe youth are the FUTURE of the church. While it is
        true that in the future the church's elders will be today's youth, it
        is terrible to relegate us to status of FUTURE. Too often the future
        talk means nothing is done for us in the present. We are Full
        MEMbers of the BODY OF CHRIST right now.

        4. How can we reform our Diocesan Administration?
        NO Comment
        5. Future of American Diocese: How long can we depend on 'Kottayam'?
        What can we do?
        As long as God wills it to be. Let us look to the other Orthodox
        Churches as our model. The Greek, Russian, Coptic, Antiochean
        churches have all been in America for a longer time than us. MOST of
        them have remained under the native church. We are way too young and
        small to be even thinking of anything drastic. Also since we are
        financially more well off than our churches at Kerala we have a
        responsibility towards them.

        6. How can we improve laymen participation in Parish activities?
        Please see my suggestion about bible readings prior to the public
        celebration of mass.
        General comments:
        Too often we see ourselves as being in a Problem Situation. NO! We
        belong to a beautiful church that can offer its members many things.
        We must Ask ourselves are we using the resources of the church? Are
        we attending Qurbana early? Are our heart involved in the Qurbana? Do
        we participate in the Sacraments enough? Do we atleast say the
        morning and evening prayers? Do we consult our Priests with our
        spiritual difficulties? DO we try to meet with the brothers and
        sisters of our church and hold prayer, bible study with them? and so
        on...

        Rather than thinking REFORM let us think REJUVENATION of Orthodoxy.

        Sujit
      • George Mathew
        Excellent responses. I agree. In order to truly understand the responses and the generation it represents, may I request that each author of a reponse include
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 2, 2000
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          Excellent responses. I agree.

          In order to truly understand the responses and the
          generation it represents, may I request that each
          author of a reponse include their age? This way we
          might be able to see trends between the older and
          younger generations.




          --- stt8@... wrote:
          > I am new to the group and wanted to post concerning
          > these Discussion
          > Topics.
          >
          > 1. Revision of our Liturgy
          > I am glad that there are many that are
          > concerned whether the
          > people that attend the qurbana are benefiting from
          > them. I do not
          > think the answer is to revise it. My opinion is to
          > re-discover and
          > appreciate it.
          > About the length, someone said avoid the
          > repetitions. Well they
          > only need to be avoided if they are said without our
          > hearts involved.
          > But for that case it is best to not even say a 1
          > minute prayer if our
          > hearts are not involved. However I dont feel the
          > length is too long.
          > The public celebration of the mass is about 1:15
          > minutes which is not
          > too long. In its length resides the richness and
          > beauty. Also dont
          > simply assume that all young people want to cut the
          > service down or
          > remove anything. If we begin to cut stuff out where
          > do we stop? We
          > are called to be thanksgiving and praise giving
          > people. HOw much is
          > enough? Some one also said reduce the bible readings
          > because there is
          > no discussion on it. I disagree; we need to read teh
          > bible as often
          > as possible. If there is no discussion of the bible
          > readings the
          > fault is of the attendants and not the church's.
          > Obviously we are not
          > going to have a discussion in the middle of Qurbana.
          > Why dont you
          > call a small gathering after church where the
          > biblical passages of
          > the day are discussed.
          >
          > 2. Updating and maintaining official web site of
          > our diocese and /
          > or our entire Indian Orthodox Church.
          > NO COMMENT
          >
          > 3. How can we make our Services more appealing to
          > our youth?
          > THe beauty of our services will become evident
          > to anyone that
          > seeks it. You have to make them want to see it. Let
          > them take
          > leadership roles in church, particularly in the
          > youth groups. I also
          > suggest that church set up days where the church
          > arrangements and
          > preperation and such is done by the Kids. Also the
          > Bible readings
          > before the public celebration of Qurbana can be done
          > by anyone. So
          > churches should allow the youth to read.
          > Try to explain the meaning of the songs and the
          > parts of the
          > liturgy to the youth. Can I suggest Barnabas
          > THirumeni's wonderful
          > book on the Holy Qurbana.
          > Also give the youth an opportunity to develop
          > real friendships
          > with each other based on Christ.
          > Also there are 2 flawed approaches to youth
          > that I see in our
          > church.
          > 1) THey are a PROBLEM: No there are many
          > of us that love
          > Christ and see the Church as teh means to an honest
          > relationship with
          > Christ. When these inviduals are tendend unto good
          > things will happen.
          > 2) THe youth are the FUTURE of the
          > church. While it is
          > true that in the future the church's elders will be
          > today's youth, it
          > is terrible to relegate us to status of FUTURE. Too
          > often the future
          > talk means nothing is done for us in the present.
          > We are Full
          > MEMbers of the BODY OF CHRIST right now.
          >
          > 4. How can we reform our Diocesan Administration?
          > NO Comment
          > 5. Future of American Diocese: How long can we
          > depend on 'Kottayam'?
          > What can we do?
          > As long as God wills it to be. Let us look to
          > the other Orthodox
          > Churches as our model. The Greek, Russian, Coptic,
          > Antiochean
          > churches have all been in America for a longer time
          > than us. MOST of
          > them have remained under the native church. We are
          > way too young and
          > small to be even thinking of anything drastic. Also
          > since we are
          > financially more well off than our churches at
          > Kerala we have a
          > responsibility towards them.
          >
          > 6. How can we improve laymen participation in Parish
          > activities?
          > Please see my suggestion about bible readings
          > prior to the public
          > celebration of mass.
          > General comments:
          > Too often we see ourselves as being in a Problem
          > Situation. NO! We
          > belong to a beautiful church that can offer its
          > members many things.
          > We must Ask ourselves are we using the resources of
          > the church? Are
          > we attending Qurbana early? Are our heart involved
          > in the Qurbana? Do
          > we participate in the Sacraments enough? Do we
          > atleast say the
          > morning and evening prayers? Do we consult our
          > Priests with our
          > spiritual difficulties? DO we try to meet with the
          > brothers and
          > sisters of our church and hold prayer, bible study
          > with them? and so
          > on...
          >
          > Rather than thinking REFORM let us think
          > REJUVENATION of Orthodoxy.
          >
          > Sujit
          >
          >


          =====
          George Mathew
          Baltimore, MD

          __________________________________________________
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          Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
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        • Sujit Thomas
          Thanks for the support. I am 20 years old. I should also add I was born and raised in Kerala till I was 10 and such i have an appreciation for the language and
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 2, 2000
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            Thanks for the support.
            I am 20 years old.
            I should also add I was born and raised in Kerala till I was 10 and such i
            have an appreciation for the language and our Qurbana.
            However I can point out more than 12 kids that agree with me on most of
            the veiws below. Many of them were born in USA.

            love,
            Sujit

            On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, George Mathew wrote:

            > Excellent responses. I agree.
            >
            > In order to truly understand the responses and the
            > generation it represents, may I request that each
            > author of a reponse include their age? This way we
            > might be able to see trends between the older and
            > younger generations.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- stt8@... wrote:
            > > I am new to the group and wanted to post concerning
            > > these Discussion
            > > Topics.
            > >
            > > 1. Revision of our Liturgy
            > > I am glad that there are many that are
            > > concerned whether the
            > > people that attend the qurbana are benefiting from
            > > them. I do not
            > > think the answer is to revise it. My opinion is to
            > > re-discover and
            > > appreciate it.
            > > About the length, someone said avoid the
            > > repetitions. Well they
            > > only need to be avoided if they are said without our
            > > hearts involved.
            > > But for that case it is best to not even say a 1
            > > minute prayer if our
            > > hearts are not involved. However I dont feel the
            > > length is too long.
            > > The public celebration of the mass is about 1:15
            > > minutes which is not
            > > too long. In its length resides the richness and
            > > beauty. Also dont
            > > simply assume that all young people want to cut the
            > > service down or
            > > remove anything. If we begin to cut stuff out where
            > > do we stop? We
            > > are called to be thanksgiving and praise giving
            > > people. HOw much is
            > > enough? Some one also said reduce the bible readings
            > > because there is
            > > no discussion on it. I disagree; we need to read teh
            > > bible as often
            > > as possible. If there is no discussion of the bible
            > > readings the
            > > fault is of the attendants and not the church's.
            > > Obviously we are not
            > > going to have a discussion in the middle of Qurbana.
            > > Why dont you
            > > call a small gathering after church where the
            > > biblical passages of
            > > the day are discussed.
            > >
            > > 2. Updating and maintaining official web site of
            > > our diocese and /
            > > or our entire Indian Orthodox Church.
            > > NO COMMENT
            > >
            > > 3. How can we make our Services more appealing to
            > > our youth?
            > > THe beauty of our services will become evident
            > > to anyone that
            > > seeks it. You have to make them want to see it. Let
            > > them take
            > > leadership roles in church, particularly in the
            > > youth groups. I also
            > > suggest that church set up days where the church
            > > arrangements and
            > > preperation and such is done by the Kids. Also the
            > > Bible readings
            > > before the public celebration of Qurbana can be done
            > > by anyone. So
            > > churches should allow the youth to read.
            > > Try to explain the meaning of the songs and the
            > > parts of the
            > > liturgy to the youth. Can I suggest Barnabas
            > > THirumeni's wonderful
            > > book on the Holy Qurbana.
            > > Also give the youth an opportunity to develop
            > > real friendships
            > > with each other based on Christ.
            > > Also there are 2 flawed approaches to youth
            > > that I see in our
            > > church.
            > > 1) THey are a PROBLEM: No there are many
            > > of us that love
            > > Christ and see the Church as teh means to an honest
            > > relationship with
            > > Christ. When these inviduals are tendend unto good
            > > things will happen.
            > > 2) THe youth are the FUTURE of the
            > > church. While it is
            > > true that in the future the church's elders will be
            > > today's youth, it
            > > is terrible to relegate us to status of FUTURE. Too
            > > often the future
            > > talk means nothing is done for us in the present.
            > > We are Full
            > > MEMbers of the BODY OF CHRIST right now.
            > >
            > > 4. How can we reform our Diocesan Administration?
            > > NO Comment
            > > 5. Future of American Diocese: How long can we
            > > depend on 'Kottayam'?
            > > What can we do?
            > > As long as God wills it to be. Let us look to
            > > the other Orthodox
            > > Churches as our model. The Greek, Russian, Coptic,
            > > Antiochean
            > > churches have all been in America for a longer time
            > > than us. MOST of
            > > them have remained under the native church. We are
            > > way too young and
            > > small to be even thinking of anything drastic. Also
            > > since we are
            > > financially more well off than our churches at
            > > Kerala we have a
            > > responsibility towards them.
            > >
            > > 6. How can we improve laymen participation in Parish
            > > activities?
            > > Please see my suggestion about bible readings
            > > prior to the public
            > > celebration of mass.
            > > General comments:
            > > Too often we see ourselves as being in a Problem
            > > Situation. NO! We
            > > belong to a beautiful church that can offer its
            > > members many things.
            > > We must Ask ourselves are we using the resources of
            > > the church? Are
            > > we attending Qurbana early? Are our heart involved
            > > in the Qurbana? Do
            > > we participate in the Sacraments enough? Do we
            > > atleast say the
            > > morning and evening prayers? Do we consult our
            > > Priests with our
            > > spiritual difficulties? DO we try to meet with the
            > > brothers and
            > > sisters of our church and hold prayer, bible study
            > > with them? and so
            > > on...
            > >
            > > Rather than thinking REFORM let us think
            > > REJUVENATION of Orthodoxy.
            > >
            > > Sujit
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > =====
            > George Mathew
            > Baltimore, MD
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
            > http://shopping.yahoo.com/
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > IndianOrthodox-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            >
            >
            >
          • George Mathew
            For the record, I am 32 years old and was born and brought up in US. Can understand Malayalam, but have difficulty speaking it. Am fluent in the church
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 3, 2000
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              For the record, I am 32 years old and was born and
              brought up in US. Can understand Malayalam, but have
              difficulty speaking it. Am "fluent" in the church
              service thanks to the transliterated qurbanakramam.

              As you say, I think that the younger generation that
              have been fortunate enough to receive the proper
              training and have learned to worship in our service
              agree that the service is meaningful. I think the key
              to getting the younger generation involved and
              interested is education.

              Regards,
              George Mathew (Benny)


              --- Sujit Thomas <stt8@...> wrote:
              > Thanks for the support.
              > I am 20 years old.
              > I should also add I was born and raised in Kerala
              > till I was 10 and such i
              > have an appreciation for the language and our
              > Qurbana.
              > However I can point out more than 12 kids that agree
              > with me on most of
              > the veiws below. Many of them were born in USA.
              >
              > love,
              > Sujit
              >
              > On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, George Mathew wrote:
              >
              > > Excellent responses. I agree.
              > >
              > > In order to truly understand the responses and the
              > > generation it represents, may I request that each
              > > author of a reponse include their age? This way
              > we
              > > might be able to see trends between the older and
              > > younger generations.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- stt8@... wrote:
              > > > I am new to the group and wanted to post
              > concerning
              > > > these Discussion
              > > > Topics.
              > > >
              > > > 1. Revision of our Liturgy
              > > > I am glad that there are many that are
              > > > concerned whether the
              > > > people that attend the qurbana are benefiting
              > from
              > > > them. I do not
              > > > think the answer is to revise it. My opinion is
              > to
              > > > re-discover and
              > > > appreciate it.
              > > > About the length, someone said avoid the
              > > > repetitions. Well they
              > > > only need to be avoided if they are said without
              > our
              > > > hearts involved.
              > > > But for that case it is best to not even say a 1
              > > > minute prayer if our
              > > > hearts are not involved. However I dont feel the
              > > > length is too long.
              > > > The public celebration of the mass is about 1:15
              > > > minutes which is not
              > > > too long. In its length resides the richness and
              > > > beauty. Also dont
              > > > simply assume that all young people want to cut
              > the
              > > > service down or
              > > > remove anything. If we begin to cut stuff out
              > where
              > > > do we stop? We
              > > > are called to be thanksgiving and praise giving
              > > > people. HOw much is
              > > > enough? Some one also said reduce the bible
              > readings
              > > > because there is
              > > > no discussion on it. I disagree; we need to read
              > teh
              > > > bible as often
              > > > as possible. If there is no discussion of the
              > bible
              > > > readings the
              > > > fault is of the attendants and not the church's.
              > > > Obviously we are not
              > > > going to have a discussion in the middle of
              > Qurbana.
              > > > Why dont you
              > > > call a small gathering after church where the
              > > > biblical passages of
              > > > the day are discussed.
              > > >
              > > > 2. Updating and maintaining official web site
              > of
              > > > our diocese and /
              > > > or our entire Indian Orthodox Church.
              > > > NO COMMENT
              > > >
              > > > 3. How can we make our Services more appealing
              > to
              > > > our youth?
              > > > THe beauty of our services will become
              > evident
              > > > to anyone that
              > > > seeks it. You have to make them want to see it.
              > Let
              > > > them take
              > > > leadership roles in church, particularly in the
              > > > youth groups. I also
              > > > suggest that church set up days where the church
              > > > arrangements and
              > > > preperation and such is done by the Kids. Also
              > the
              > > > Bible readings
              > > > before the public celebration of Qurbana can be
              > done
              > > > by anyone. So
              > > > churches should allow the youth to read.
              > > > Try to explain the meaning of the songs and
              > the
              > > > parts of the
              > > > liturgy to the youth. Can I suggest Barnabas
              > > > THirumeni's wonderful
              > > > book on the Holy Qurbana.
              > > > Also give the youth an opportunity to
              > develop
              > > > real friendships
              > > > with each other based on Christ.
              > > > Also there are 2 flawed approaches to youth
              > > > that I see in our
              > > > church.
              > > > 1) THey are a PROBLEM: No there are
              > many
              > > > of us that love
              > > > Christ and see the Church as teh means to an
              > honest
              > > > relationship with
              > > > Christ. When these inviduals are tendend unto
              > good
              > > > things will happen.
              > > > 2) THe youth are the FUTURE of the
              > > > church. While it is
              > > > true that in the future the church's elders will
              > be
              > > > today's youth, it
              > > > is terrible to relegate us to status of FUTURE.
              > Too
              > > > often the future
              > > > talk means nothing is done for us in the
              > present.
              > > > We are Full
              > > > MEMbers of the BODY OF CHRIST right now.
              > > >
              > > > 4. How can we reform our Diocesan
              > Administration?
              > > > NO Comment
              > > > 5. Future of American Diocese: How long can we
              > > > depend on 'Kottayam'?
              > > > What can we do?
              > > > As long as God wills it to be. Let us look
              > to
              > > > the other Orthodox
              > > > Churches as our model. The Greek, Russian,
              > Coptic,
              > > > Antiochean
              > > > churches have all been in America for a longer
              > time
              > > > than us. MOST of
              > > > them have remained under the native church. We
              > are
              > > > way too young and
              > > > small to be even thinking of anything drastic.
              > Also
              > > > since we are
              > > > financially more well off than our churches at
              > > > Kerala we have a
              > > > responsibility towards them.
              > > >
              > > > 6. How can we improve laymen participation in
              > Parish
              > > > activities?
              > > > Please see my suggestion about bible readings
              > > > prior to the public
              > > > celebration of mass.
              > > > General comments:
              > > > Too often we see ourselves as being in a Problem
              > > > Situation. NO! We
              > > > belong to a beautiful church that can offer its
              > > > members many things.
              > > > We must Ask ourselves are we using the resources
              > of
              > > > the church? Are
              > > > we attending Qurbana early? Are our heart
              > involved
              > > > in the Qurbana? Do
              > > > we participate in the Sacraments enough? Do we
              > > > atleast say the
              > > > morning and evening prayers? Do we consult our
              > > > Priests with our
              > > > spiritual difficulties? DO we try to meet with
              > the
              > > > brothers and
              > > > sisters of our church and hold prayer, bible
              > study
              > > > with them? and so
              > > > on...
              > > >
              > > > Rather than thinking REFORM let us think
              > > > REJUVENATION of Orthodoxy.
              > > >
              > > > Sujit
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > =====
              > > George Mathew
              > > Baltimore, MD
              > >
              > > __________________________________________________
              > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
              > Products.
              > > http://shopping.yahoo.com/
              > >
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > IndianOrthodox-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >


              =====
              George Mathew
              Baltimore, MD

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
              http://shopping.yahoo.com/
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