Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Imperial-Club] Engine Rebuilder Phoenix/Good Days, Bad Days/ Do It Yourself???

Expand Messages
  • mopar413@charter.net
    I don t know why they want to take things apart first. When you do that kind of had to take a compression test. You can also do the leak down test to find out
    Message 1 of 45 , Dec 1, 2008
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      I don't know why they want to take things apart first. When you do that kind of had to take a compression test. You can also do the leak down test to find out if it is a valve or rings ,Then you know what you are looking for. You can also do the radiator test to find out if you have a blown head gasket. That requires a radiator testor. Most older mechanics will have one or a radiator shop. I have one with a little book that tell what to look for. These two items have save me time and money a lot of times.
      ---- john sadowski <jsadowski@...> wrote:
      > I was surprised that I don't see anything about doing a compression test in the service manual. It seems like back in those days, they encouraged taking things apart a lot sooner then they do now. I'll see about getting a tester.
      >
      > John
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: mopar413@...
      > To: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com
      > Cc: Fred Joslin
      > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 6:51 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Engine Rebuilder Phoenix/Good Days, Bad Days/ Do It Yourself???
      >
      >
      > Do a compression test before anything else. You will then know what you are looking for and what to do. Alway do the compression test first. You can also check plug wires with an om metor.
      > ---- Fred Joslin <fljoslin@...> wrote:
      > > Hi John:
      > > I would getting to the best starting point that you can to evaluate the engine. This would involve a complete tune up, plugs, wires, points, distributor cap etc, non of which would be wasted. If it still sounds bad do a compression check or a leak down test.
      > >
      > > Removing the heads has its own challenges. The bolts holding the exhaust pipes to the exhaust manifolds are a bear to get to. There is a whole bunch of other stuff that has to come off and go back on, is awkward, and has to be set right. Lots of it is really heavy. If you remove the heads you should certainly plan to get a valve job done (which takes time) and it is also a good time to change the timing chain and even go so far as changing the cam if you feel adventurous. None of this is technically challenging, but time consuming hard work. I would guess that devoting much of your free time would take about a month to complete.
      > > However, you really need to know what the problem(s) is/are before you make any plans.
      > > Good luck.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: "randalpark@..." <randalpark@...>
      > > To: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:49:26 AM
      > > Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Engine Rebuilder Phoenix/Good Days, Bad Days/ Do It Yourself???
      > >
      > >
      > > If you decide to do anything with the ignition wires, you should refer to the firing order and make sure that they are attached to the?correct plugs. Don't swap any of them. Incorrect firing (if it will even start) can break a piston, or result in other nasty mechanical problems. Pulling a plug wire will make the car miss, but should not result in any unusual sound, other than a puff out of the tail pipe.
      > >
      > > In the past, when I have had a miss I pull the plug wires and replace them one and a time to find the one cylinder that is giving trouble. If the engine is rougher, then it isn't that cylinder. If the engine is the same, then that cylinder is likely the culprit.
      > >
      > > Your note about the unusual cranking sound brings me back to the idea of a compression test. No compression on one or more cylinders will result in the starter making a WAAAAAAAA wawawawawawaWAAAAAA AAAAAwawawawawa sound, where it should be quite consistent such as a wawawawawawawawawa until it starts. Without the compression test?you really don't know where you are.?
      > >
      > > Paul W.
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: john sadowski <jsadowski@cox. net>
      > > To: Imperial-Club@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Sent: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 7:03 pm
      > > Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Engine Rebuilder Phoenix/Good Days, Bad Days/ Do It Yourself???
      > >
      > > Thats what I get for attemping this after a big Thanksgiving meal. I had it running again today for a while & one thing I tried was swapping one of the plug wires from where the noise seems to be coming from. When I started it up, it ran fairly quite for about a minute, then the noise came back.
      > > Do you think it could be as simple as having a dead plug wire(s)? The wires look OK, but they must be pushing 30 years old. I've owned the car for almost 19 years & the person I bought it from said he lost the keys to it shortly after he got it & it sat where it was for at least 5 years. With a dead wire, wouldn't it be trying to run on 7 cylinders?
      > > I could most likely remove & reinstall the heads. The only thing that scares me is removing the exhaust manifolds.
      > >
      > > John
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: randalpark@aol. com
      > > To: Imperial-Club@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 9:00 AM
      > > Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Engine Rebuilder Phoenix/Good Days, Bad Days/ Do It Yourself???
      > >
      > > Having that much go wrong means that it wasn't a good day to work on projects. I have those too. Usually, I don't go too deeply into anything anymore unless I feel particularly ambitious. Even then, if stuff starts going wrong, I stop. On good days, I may find?myself able to fix the toaster, then the ceiling fan, test myself again by changing a few light bulbs, and finally if I am still feeling positive, go for a power window or a radio swap on one of the cars.
      > >
      > > The blue smoke wouldn't bother me too much. That often?results from oil seeping into the combustion chambers while parked and is from the top end. It?takes a little while to burn off. From your other notes, though it does sound like something else has gone wrong. So far, it sounds like cylinder head problems to me, but not being there I don't know. I am sure that you are capable of doing the work, finding a machine shop to rebuild the heads, and getting the car running right again.
      > >
      > > You know the usual steps, follow the FSM, buy a bunch of paper lunch bags and a permanent marker, using both to hold and label nuts, screws, springs, etc?that you remove to disassemble the top end. I think you can have it all apart in a day, a week or two for the heads to be machined, and another day to put it all back together. If the car has factory Air, you'll need to add at least a couple of more hours on each end.
      > > ?
      > > I have done all of this myself two or three times over the years. Now, I don't want to do it anymore. I have a good shop that does lots of work for me. Gaining my trust with them over the years took building a relationship that developed from lots of repair work jobs, back a forth communications, and even a few screw ups on their part and mine. They know me pretty well and what I expect from them. When I decided to have them do the head work on my '60 a couple of years ago, they found one of the heads was seriously damaged and required replacement. That took a lot of extra time and cost more money. Like you say, you may take it apart and find it needs more work.
      > >
      > > Getting rid of the car in poor running condition means taking a big hit on the price. Taking it apart and selling it that way is not easy and usually ends up worse. It would probably end up in "you know who's" car collection, or on ebay with a long political rant. I am surprised that?ebay doesn't shut down his auctions. Maybe someone has to complain. Anyway, this is about you, not him. I think you should have your car fixed. Anything you do to it is going to eventually add to the value if its done right. If your car runs good, you will enjoy it again, and then sell it when the time comes, and you aren't frustrated with it over something. I attached a picture of my?'60 that runs good now that I had the head work done. My father purchased?it new for my mother. They were very proud of it, particularly my father who, even in his last days wouldn't talk to me about anything else while he was in the hospital. He firmly believed that his beautiful wife should
      > > drive a beautiful car, and she did.
      > >
      > > Good luck?on your decision and I hope it all works out for the best.
      > >
      > > Paul W.?
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: john sadowski <jsadowski@cox. net>
      > > To: Imperial-Club@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Sent: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 6:01 pm
      > > Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Engine Rebuilder Phoenix
      > >
      > > Paul,
      > >
      > > I've removed heads from the engine on a 60 LeBaron that I was parting out, but never installed a set. When I was living back east, one of my friends from the 300 club rebuilt the engine in my other 60. He did engine work on the side & I got to see just about every aspect of dissembling & reassembling an engine. That was 10 years ago though & I know watching & doing are not the same.
      > > I had the car running yesterday & after it warmed up, quite a bit of blue smoke was coming out the exhaust when I stepped on the gas. I hate to take it apart & find its something I can't handle & have the car laid up in the garage. If things aren't bad enough, I managed to close the garage door on one of my tail lights & broke an NOS lens. If I didn't have this car for so long, I would try to find it a new home where it will be loved the way I used to love it.
      > > John
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: PAUL WENTINK
      > > To: Imperial-Club@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 9:21 AM
      > > Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Engine Rebuilder Phoenix
      > >
      > > The unusual cranking and the vibration sounds like?no compression on a cylinder or two. Remove the valve cover and you may see the trouble. Do a compression check. It is also possible that you have a blown head gasket or a cracked head. Just from the sound of it, I believe your problem is in the cylinder head (burned valve/bad valve train) or head gasket. An old Buick I used to own wore out a valve keeper and rocker shaft that made it act similar to what you describe, but it was made differently (pivots and bridges) than the Imperial.?
      > >
      > > If your not into doing this sort of work your self, your car really needs to go into the shop. I have a vacation place in?Phoenix (actually Glendale), and the car I keep down there is a 1986?Lincoln Town Car. I still take it to the local dealer (Sanderson) for service and repair. I have never found anyone else I could trust. I wouldn't trust them either except they already know that they can't get away with anything with me. I wish I could recommend a good shop in that area. Frankly, when I am down there I am amazed at the number of shops there are, but I wouldn't let any of them?fill my washer fluid much less trouble shoot a serious engine problem. There must be one, but without any recommendations, I would be tempted to check out the shops in the Scottsdale area.
      > >
      > > One thing they do get right down there is air conditioning, and quite reasonable, but that's another story.
      > >
      > > Good luck.
      > >
      > > Paul W.??
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: john sadowski <jsadowski@cox. net>
      > > To: Imperial-Club@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Sent: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 7:16 pm
      > > Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Engine Rebuilder Phoenix
      > >
      > > Hi Rob,
      > >
      > > My first thought was a bad lifter. I'll check the exhaust manifold, but it sounds like a mechanical noise at the front of the passenger side valve cover. The whole car vibrates quite a bit when first started. It also sounds a little strange when the engine is cranking. Instead of cranking at an even rate, it seems to go from fast to slow until it eventually starts.
      > >
      > > John
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Rob van der Es
      > > To: Imperial-Club@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 12:57 AM
      > > Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] Engine Rebuilder Phoenix
      > >
      > > Hi John,
      > >
      > > I know exactly what kind of sound you are trying to describe here, have had
      > > the same problem a few months ago! Replaced the lifters, without any result.
      > > Problably the noise increases when the engine is under load, for e.g.
      > > pulling up after waiting for a traffic light and the sound disappears as
      > > soon as you release the accelerator? ?
      > >
      > > If so, please check the condition of your exhaust manifolds, look for cracks
      > > and check for any loose bolts (correct torque should be 32 lb.ft or 40 Nm).
      > > Please check also the condition of the exhaust manifold gaskets and the
      > > exhaust pipe flange gasket!
      > >
      > > I found that the passenger side exhaust manifold was loose on the head, the
      > > nuts were only fingerthight. .The came off without any force applied to them.
      > > The exhaust manifold gasket was leaking and the pipe flange gasket was
      > > partially burned away.
      > > After replacing both gaskets and properly thighten the manifold back to the
      > > head, the engine was silent again.
      > >
      > > No more strange knocking and tapping sounds! I hope your problem will be
      > > exactly the same, it is an easy fix
      > > and would leave you some money left to spend on other things with Christmas
      > > coming near!
      > >
      > > All the best,
      > >
      > > Rob
      > >
      > > 2008/11/26 imp6960 <jsadowski@cox. net>
      > >
      > > > Is there a member in the Phoenix area that is an engine rebuilder or
      > > > knows of one? The engine in my 60 recently started making a load noise
      > > > when running, much like that annoying lifter sound, but 10 X as loud.
      > > > Its been sitting a lot the past couple of years with an occassional
      > > > ride around the block. I'm afraid to try to drive it at all now.
      > > > John
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • mopar413@charter.net
      An easy way to tell if you have a bad valve or bad rings is to do a compression test then if you have a low reading on a cyclinder then add some oil to it
      Message 45 of 45 , Dec 1, 2008
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        An easy way to tell if you have a bad valve or bad rings is to do a compression test then if you have a low reading on a cyclinder then add some oil to it three or four good quirts with an oil can that you sqeeze . If the compression jumps way up then the valve is good and you have a ring problem. If very little raise in compression then a bad valve or blown head gasket. Either way the heads need to come off. Soak the exhaust bolts with a good penitrating oil. You can also heat the bolts up then squirt and thump the bolt. Let it sit then do it again. Try turning If it turns hard back up and tighten just a little bit then go back the other way. Squirt again. Just keep doing that and you will usually get the bolt out with out breaking it. The header bolts that hold the pipe to the manifold I usually just cut them off. Cheap and save a lot of time and sore knukles.
        ---- "John L. Chesnutt" <chesnutt@...> wrote:
        > That is an excellent suggestion to check spark plug wires with an Ohm Meter. I do the same thing on our Chryslers.
        >
        > John Chesnutt, Portland, OR
        > Rebuilder Phoenix/Good Days, Bad Days/ Do It Yourself???
        >
        > Do a compression test before anything else. You will then know what you are looking for and what to do. Alway do the compression test first. You can also check plug wires with an ohm meter.
        > ---- Fred Joslin <fljoslin@...> wrote:
        > > Hi John:
        > > I would getting to the best starting point that you can to evaluate the engine. This would involve a complete tune up, plugs, wires, points, distributor cap etc, non of which would be wasted. If it still sounds bad do a compression check or a leak down test.
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: john sadowski <jsadowski@cox. net>
        > > To: Imperial-Club@ yahoogroups. com
        > > Sent: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 7:16 pm
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.