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  • polaris552@comcast.net
    WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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      WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks that there are stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the gasket. It did not seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it back to the garage again yesterday and told him it was not able to be driven and they need to find out the problem. Anyone have similar situation?

      Thanks for any help with this.
      Phil Wetmore
      1963 imperial crown
    • imperial1971
      ... miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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        --- In Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com, polaris552@... wrote:
        > WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks that there are stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the gasket. It did not seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it back to the garage again yesterday and told him it was not able to be driven and they need to find out the problem. Anyone have similar situation?
        > ------------------------------------------------

        It's always frustrating to take a car in for a repair, throw a bunch of money at it, and get it back in worse shape than it was before.  I feel your pain!

        Did the shop do both a valve job and replace the head gasket?  Anything else?  There's lots of room in there for error.  Either way, the shop should never, ever have given you the keys to the car until it was running RIGHT.  Period.  And the "drive it a while to see if it gets better" business is hooey.

        A few possibilities here would include not having the head torqued correctly, a loose intake manifold, a damaged intake manifold gasket (should have been replaced, but .....), a loose carburetor or damaged gasket, or a loose vacuum hose (brake booster or another connection at the intake manifold).

        Does it run rough and cough black smoke from the exhaust?  Blue smoke?  Gray/white smoke?  Those three different colors are clues and each is symptomatic of different problems (excess fuel, oil consumption, or coolant entering a cylinder).

        If the mechanic was competent enough to pull a head and replace a gasket, he ought to be able to figure out the rest of the problem.

        Good luck!

        Elijah
         

        Imperial Power Window Switch Repair

        Find Repair & Shop Manuals, Parts Books, History & More at The Imperial Bookshelf!

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      • Rickard
        Sounds like a vacuum leak to me. Check intake and carburetor gaskets, also check so that there is no vacuum hose lose.   /Rickard ... Från:
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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          Sounds like a vacuum leak to me. Check intake and carburetor gaskets, also check so that there is no vacuum hose lose.

           

          /Rickard

          --- Den tis 2008-07-01 skrev polaris552@... <polaris552@...>:

          Från: polaris552@... <polaris552@...>
          Ämne: [Imperial-Club] HELP!
          Till: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com
          Datum: tisdag 1 juli 2008 14.54

          WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks that there are stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the gasket. It did not seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it back to the garage again yesterday and told him it was not able to be driven and they need to find out the problem. Anyone have similar situation?

          Thanks for any help with this.
          Phil Wetmore
          1963 imperial crown



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        • PAUL WENTINK
          If the work was done properly, and the car was reassembled correctly it should run fine. I don t like the answer given about stuck rings. It sounds like a flip
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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            If the work was done properly, and the car was reassembled correctly it should run fine. I don't like the answer given about stuck rings. It sounds like a flip answer to get you off their back. That would make it smoke, but not likely rough running enough for you to notice. Driving it is bad advice since obviously something is wrong and could be made worse.

            There are many things that can cause rough running. Since you say it ran smoother before, I would concentrate on what they did and where they worked. As mentioned, a simple explanation could be that some vacuum lines are not connected or are connected wrong. For example, if this car has a vacuum controlled choke pull off that did not get reconnected, the choke wouldn't open properly. This would cause rough running, black smoke, plug fouling, and finally a stall. Not being there, it is impossible to troubleshoot. 

            I would not have taken it back to them, although I completely understand why you did. You paid them, and they should fix it. That said, no good shop would return a car to the customer until it was running correctly. At the very least, they should have contacted you to conference about additional work needed that was not anticipated. If they didn't do it right before, they may not know what they are doing now, and could make it worse.

            Good luck. I would be looking for a new mechanic, or learn how to do the work at home.

            Paul W.


            -----Original Message-----
            From: polaris552@...
            To: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 4:54 am
            Subject: [Imperial-Club] HELP!

            WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks that there are stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the gasket. It did not seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it back to the garage again yesterday and told him it was not able to be driven and they need to find out the problem. Anyone have similar situation?

            Thanks for any help with this.
            Phil Wetmore
            1963 imperial crown
          • Fred Joslin
            This could be many many things. Check all of the spark plugs and wires and the timing if possible.   ... From: polaris552@comcast.net
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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              This could be many many things. Check all of the spark plugs and wires and the timing if possible.  

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: "polaris552@..." <polaris552@...>
              To: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2008 5:54:08 AM
              Subject: [Imperial-Club] HELP!

              WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks that there are stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the gasket. It did not seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it back to the garage again yesterday and told him it was not able to be driven and they need to find out the problem. Anyone have similar situation?

              Thanks for any help with this.
              Phil Wetmore
              1963 imperial crown


            • Sonny Moorehouse
              Take it to another mechanic but look for someone who works on older cars and have the compresion checked and if he said what you say he did I wouldent let him
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                Take it to another mechanic but look for someone who works on older cars and have the compresion checked and if he said what you say he did I wouldent let him touch your imperial again .


                Sincerly           Sonny Moorehouse
              • Kenyon Wills
                I drove Pauline s 1972 and it got really rough on the way home. Chugging almost at idle, smoothing somewhat at speed. I stopped for a haircut and looked under
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                  I drove Pauline's 1972 and it got really rough on the
                  way home. Chugging almost at idle, smoothing somewhat
                  at speed.

                  I stopped for a haircut and looked under the hood.

                  One of the spark plug wires was off and dangling next
                  to the side of the engine.

                  I've had this happen before, so instantly suspected
                  it.

                  Left the hood open and re-connected it when cool after
                  my haircut.

                  I suggest putting "hands on" with each of the wire's
                  connectors at each end to ensure correct, firm
                  connection. This is free and easy to do when the
                  engine is cool.

                  car still doing it? Wait till dark and start the car
                  and look for arcing between a wire and the car, and
                  jiggle wires around to see if things change. Put on
                  new wires if you get any reaction/improvement.

                  Also: start car and pull each wire sequentially.
                  The car should react the same each time. The time
                  that you get no difference, you know that the wire is
                  dead.


                  Lots and lots of other possible reasons, but that's
                  the fastest, easiest, most likely based on what you
                  said. Your engine, rings, and valves are waaaay down
                  the list. Presume it was re-assembled correctly for
                  the first 40% of your hunt, and FIND SOMEONE ELSE.

                  The rest of the advice I saw here looked really good
                  too.

                  Automobiles with chrome bumpers are not known for
                  self-diagnosis or self-repair.

                  Ask them for a partial refund just to see what they
                  say and then walk away after giving them the
                  stink-eye.


                  -Kenyon


                  --- imperial1971 <imperial1971@...> wrote:

                  > --- In Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com, polaris552@...
                  > wrote:
                  > > WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63
                  > imperial. It had 33k
                  > miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it
                  > back from the garage
                  > but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear.
                  > The mechanic said to
                  > drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks
                  > that there are
                  > stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the
                  > gasket. It did not
                  > seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it
                  > back to the garage
                  > again yesterday and told him it was not able to be
                  > driven and they need
                  > to find out the problem. Anyone have similar
                  > situation?
                  > > ------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  > It's always frustrating to take a car in for a
                  > repair, throw a bunch of
                  > money at it, and get it back in worse shape than it
                  > was before. I feel
                  > your pain!
                  >
                  > Did the shop do both a valve job and replace the
                  > head gasket? Anything
                  > else? There's lots of room in there for error.
                  > Either way, the shop
                  > should never, ever have given you the keys to the
                  > car until it was
                  > running RIGHT. Period. And the "drive it a while
                  > to see if it gets
                  > better" business is hooey.
                  >
                  > A few possibilities here would include not having
                  > the head torqued
                  > correctly, a loose intake manifold, a damaged intake
                  > manifold gasket
                  > (should have been replaced, but .....), a loose
                  > carburetor or damaged
                  > gasket, or a loose vacuum hose (brake booster or
                  > another connection at
                  > the intake manifold).
                  >
                  > Does it run rough and cough black smoke from the
                  > exhaust? Blue smoke?
                  > Gray/white smoke? Those three different colors are
                  > clues and each is
                  > symptomatic of different problems (excess fuel, oil
                  > consumption, or
                  > coolant entering a cylinder).
                  >
                  > If the mechanic was competent enough to pull a head
                  > and replace a
                  > gasket, he ought to be able to figure out the rest
                  > of the problem.
                  >
                  > Good luck!
                  >
                  > Elijah
                  > Imperial Power Window Switch Repair
                  > <http://home.comcast.net/%7Eimperial1971/%20>
                  >
                  > Find Repair & Shop Manuals, Parts Books, History &
                  > More at The Imperial
                  > Bookshelf!
                  >
                  <http://home.comcast.net/%7Eimperial1971/Bookshelf.html%20>
                  >
                  > My Collection of Imperials
                  > <http://www.imperialclub.com/%7Eimperial71/%20>
                  > 1965 Imperial LeBaron
                  > 1970 Imperial LeBaron
                  > 1971 Imperial LeBaron
                  >
                  >
                • Dave Wilker
                  It could be possible that after milling the heads (if they did mill the heads), grinding valves and valves seats (ditto) that there is now no clearance left
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                    It could be possible that after milling the heads (if they did mill the heads), grinding valves and valves seats (ditto) that there is now no clearance left between pushrods and rocker arms, and they are staying open. After a few miles with the valves being kept open, a burnt valve situation would occur.. 
                     
                     

                    David C. Wilker Jr.
                    USAF (RET)
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 6:51 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] HELP!

                    If the work was done properly, and the car was reassembled correctly it should run fine. I don't like the answer given about stuck rings. It sounds like a flip answer to get you off their back. That would make it smoke, but not likely rough running enough for you to notice. Driving it is bad advice since obviously something is wrong and could be made worse.

                    There are many things that can cause rough running. Since you say it ran smoother before, I would concentrate on what they did and where they worked. As mentioned, a simple explanation could be that some vacuum lines are not connected or are connected wrong. For example, if this car has a vacuum controlled choke pull off that did not get reconnected, the choke wouldn't open properly. This would cause rough running, black smoke, plug fouling, and finally a stall. Not being there, it is impossible to troubleshoot. 

                    I would not have taken it back to them, although I completely understand why you did. You paid them, and they should fix it. That said, no good shop would return a car to the customer until it was running correctly. At the very least, they should have contacted you to conference about additional work needed that was not anticipated. If they didn't do it right before, they may not know what they are doing now, and could make it worse.

                    Good luck. I would be looking for a new mechanic, or learn how to do the work at home.

                    Paul W.


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: polaris552@...
                    To: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 4:54 am
                    Subject: [Imperial-Club] HELP!

                    WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks that there are stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the gasket. It did not seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it back to the garage again yesterday and told him it was not able to be driven and they need to find out the problem. Anyone have similar situation?

                    Thanks for any help with this.
                    Phil Wetmore
                    1963 imperial crown
                  • Eddie Elvis
                    Phil, I agree with Elijah. I ve been a mechanic for the past 26 years and you simply do not ever send a car back from repair running poorly. That job is a no
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                      Phil,
                              I agree with Elijah.  I've been a mechanic for the past 26 years and you simply do not ever send a car back from repair running poorly.  That job is a no brainer for a decent mechanic.
                              This shop is responsible for your repair and your satisfaction. 
                      Bring the car back to him and tell him you want it back when it's running correctly.
                      If he gives you a song and a dance, then report him to the Division of Consumer Affairs.
                      They work out of the state Attorney General's Office and they have lawyers just waiting to come after shysters like this guy.

                                                            ...........Eddie
                                                           1957 Crown Coupe
                                                           1960 Le Baron hardtop




                      To: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com
                      From: polaris552@...
                      Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 12:54:08 +0000
                      Subject: [Imperial-Club] HELP!

                      WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks that there are stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the gasket. It did not seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it back to the garage again yesterday and told him it was not able to be driven and they need to find out the problem. Anyone have similar situation?

                      Thanks for any help with this.
                      Phil Wetmore
                      1963 imperial crown



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                    • Sonny Moorehouse
                      boy is that good information and if it is true this is one expensive problem I truly hope it is not as bad as this . Sincerly Sonny Moorehouse
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                        boy is that good information and if it is true this is one expensive problem I truly hope it is not as bad as this .


                        Sincerly           Sonny Moorehouse
                      • Tim Durrer
                        Phil,   Like everyone is saying, take it back and tell him to call you when it is running properly. Having owned Mopars for almost 20 years, I can tell you it
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                          Phil,

                           

                          Like everyone is saying, take it back and tell him to call you when it is running properly. Having owned Mopars for almost 20 years, I can tell you it could be a host of things causing this. I would not mess around with it until you have given the shop the opportunity to correct the problem. Otherwise he could claim you screwed it up and not him. If he can't or won't fix it, call the BBB and start taking these very good suggestions for what might be wrong, or find a competent mechanic who is familiar with older cars.

                           

                          In my experience with Mopars it usually one of the following:

                           

                          Vacuum leak

                          Carburetor out of adjustment (especially if Holly equipped)

                          Idle speed set to low

                          Timing off

                          Plug fouled or plug wire loose/faulty

                           

                          Good luck

                           

                          Tim Durrer

                          73 Blue Sky

                          --- On Tue, 7/1/08, Dave Wilker <wilkerbeast01@...> wrote:

                          From: Dave Wilker <wilkerbeast01@...>
                          Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] HELP!
                          To: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 11:43 AM

                          It could be possible that after milling the heads (if they did mill the heads), grinding valves and valves seats (ditto) that there is now no clearance left between pushrods and rocker arms, and they are staying open. After a few miles with the valves being kept open, a burnt valve situation would occur.. 
                           
                           

                          David C. Wilker Jr.
                          USAF (RET)
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 6:51 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] HELP!

                          If the work was done properly, and the car was reassembled correctly it should run fine. I don't like the answer given about stuck rings. It sounds like a flip answer to get you off their back. That would make it smoke, but not likely rough running enough for you to notice. Driving it is bad advice since obviously something is wrong and could be made worse.

                          There are many things that can cause rough running. Since you say it ran smoother before, I would concentrate on what they did and where they worked. As mentioned, a simple explanation could be that some vacuum lines are not connected or are connected wrong. For example, if this car has a vacuum controlled choke pull off that did not get reconnected, the choke wouldn't open properly. This would cause rough running, black smoke, plug fouling, and finally a stall. Not being there, it is impossible to troubleshoot. 

                          I would not have taken it back to them, although I completely understand why you did. You paid them, and they should fix it. That said, no good shop would return a car to the customer until it was running correctly. At the very least, they should have contacted you to conference about additional work needed that was not anticipated. If they didn't do it right before, they may not know what they are doing now, and could make it worse.

                          Good luck. I would be looking for a new mechanic, or learn how to do the work at home.

                          Paul W.


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: polaris552@comcast. net
                          To: Imperial-Club@ yahoogroups. com
                          Sent: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 4:54 am
                          Subject: [Imperial-Club] HELP!

                          WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks that there are stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the gasket. It did not seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it back to the garage again yesterday and told him it was not able to be driven and they need to find out the problem. Anyone have similar situation?

                          Thanks for any help with this.
                          Phil Wetmore
                          1963 imperial crown

                        • sosmi@comcast.net
                          Along with the other problems stated, it is possible they installed some push-rods inverted. Pre-67 engines have a top and bottom push-rod tip. If installed
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                            Along with the other problems stated, it is possible they installed some push-rods inverted. Pre-67 engines have a top and bottom push-rod tip. If installed inverted, a compression loss is possible. Milling heads should be no problem, .003-.005". .010" or more, the intake manifold needs milling to maintain sealing surface geometry. Since these are Fred Flinstone simple engines, I would hope they can figure it out. Just another thought. Dave.
                             
                            -------------- Original message --------------
                            From: polaris552@...

                            WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks that there are stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the gasket. It did not seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it back to the garage again yesterday and told him it was not able to be driven and they need to find out the problem. Anyone have similar situation?

                            Thanks for any help with this.
                            Phil Wetmore
                            1963 imperial crown

                          • David Whitney
                            Your so-called mechanic is giving you the runaround.  Give him 48 hours to make it right and then start reporting him to the BBB, your state s Bureau of
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                              Your so-called "mechanic" is giving you the runaround.  Give him 48 hours to make it right and then start reporting him to the BBB, your state's Bureau of Automotive Repairs or similar agency and anyone else who will listen.  If he won't make it right, take it to a real mechanic (maybe one recommended by your local Mopar club), have the work done and take the bozo to small claims court armed with all your documentation and receipts.  It will help if you can find out whether the shop has been named in similar complaints.

                               

                              Oh, and please tell us who the slimeball is so none of us go there.  Maybe we can have a club event outside his shop with Imperial picket signs.

                               

                              I'm not even going to begin trying to diagnose the root cause.  Considering how this guy is treating you and that you indicated it took a long time to get the car back, he was clearly in over his head.  A botched valve job/head reassembly will be revealed by a compression test.  If you have ring problems (which I doubt), blowing compressed air into the spark plug hole while both valves are closed will reveal that.  There is a special fitting you can screw into the plug threads to accomplish this.  Do it while the valve cover is off so you can be certain the valves are fully closed.  Assuming the head gasket is properly sealed, the air can only go three places -- past one of the two valves or past the rings.  If it's going past a valve, you will feel and/or hear air escaping either through the top of the carb (indicating bad seal at intake valve) or out the tailpipe (bad exhaust valve).  If air is escaping past the rings, it can only go into the crankcase and you should be able to hear/feel it coming out of the oil dipstick tube.  If the head gasket is not properly sealed, you may see air bubbles in the radiator.

                               

                              Happy motoring,

                               

                              David


                            • Ron Stephenson
                              Gosh, here we go again on getting work done on a Chrysler engine by Chevrolet mechanics. They think our engines are so different that there must be thousands
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                                Gosh, here we go again on getting work done on a Chrysler engine by Chevrolet mechanics.  They think our engines are so different that there must be thousands of things to go wrong.
                                 
                                Actually all pushrod V-8's have more in common than dissimilarities.  They are simple, straightforward and easy to fix. Of course, you need a REAL mechanic that not only has experience taking things apart, but some real grasp of theory of engines.  Same goes for machine shop work;  get a ham-fisted person to try to do an adequate valve job and head milling and you are in trouble.  Same goes for the actual re-assembly of the engine.  I have seen all the nightmare scenarios of reversed bearings, improper torquing of fasteners, no checking of clearances,and the list goes on.  Ig nition and fuel delivery seems to be a black hole for most of these garage monkeys, and I am always amused by the parts-changers who have no idea what they are doing.  I am a certified car nut, and won't commission any work unless I can be there to observe the goings-on.  I do not trust people in the repair business, period.  Take time to interview the worker, satisfy yourself that the answers to your questions are truthful and accurate.  Run like Hades if you are the least bit suspicious.  If you need brain surgery, don't go to a podiatrist.......-As usual, all comments graciously accepted.  Ron---- Original Message -----
                                From: sosmi@...
                                Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 1:53 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] HELP!

                                Along with the other problems stated, it is possible they installed some push-rods inverted. Pre-67 engines have a top and bottom push-rod tip. If installed inverted, a compression loss is possible. Milling heads should be no problem, .003-.005". .010" or more, the intake manifold needs milling to maintain sealing surface geometry. Since these are Fred Flinstone simple engines, I would hope they can figure it out. Just another thought. Dave.
                                 
                                ------------ -- Original message ------------ --
                                From: polaris552@comcast. net

                                WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks that there are stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the gasket. It did not seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it back to the garage again yesterday and told him it was not able to be driven and they need to find out the problem. Anyone have similar situation?

                                Thanks for any help with this.
                                Phil Wetmore
                                1963 imperial crown



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                              • David Whitney
                                I think the changeover was the 68 model year.  67 and earlier big blocks use a different pushrod/lifter combination.  Those early rods and lifters are nearly
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                                  I think the changeover was the 68 model year.  67 and earlier big blocks use a different pushrod/lifter combination.  Those early rods and lifters are nearly impossible to find, so most folks switch to the new combination.  You can not mix and match, it's old/old or new/new.

                                   

                                  And don't forget, used lifters and pushrods MUST be installed on the valve from which they came or you will be very sad.  The "mechanic" may not have been aware of this requirement.

                                   

                                  Happy motoring,

                                   

                                  David

                                  --- On Tue, 7/1/08, sosmi@... <sosmi@...> wrote:

                                  From: sosmi@... <sosmi@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] HELP!
                                  To: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 11:53 AM

                                  Along with the other problems stated, it is possible they installed some push-rods inverted. Pre-67 engines have a top and bottom push-rod tip. If installed inverted, a compression loss is possible. Milling heads should be no problem, .003-.005". .010" or more, the intake manifold needs milling to maintain sealing surface geometry. Since these are Fred Flinstone simple engines, I would hope they can figure it out. Just another thought. Dave.
                                   
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                                • sosmi@comcast.net
                                  Ron, you are right on so many points. The problem is, so many young technicians have not had the field time to see the now I ve seen it all . At the same
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                                    Ron, you are right on so many points. The problem is, so many "young" technicians have not had the field time to see the"now I've seen it all". At the same time, the customer is less and less educated on their own product. Dealing with the older Imps should be no problem. I started with nothing but Chrysler engines, and now the majority of my work is GM, Ford, and EDC Volvo diesels (marine). There is a gap in old car technology, that can't be filled without paying your dues with time. A great man (My Father) once said " A man made it, a man can fix it " , witch really means, if you understand the sequents of events, then you've got it. And knowing the product as well. I say give these guys a chance, it may be a small problem. Although I will say, it should have run better then when it came in. Ya'll have a nice day, Dave.
                                     
                                    -------------- Original message --------------
                                    From: "Ron Stephenson" <jagster911@...>

                                    Gosh, here we go again on getting work done on a Chrysler engine by Chevrolet mechanics.  They think our engines are so different that there must be thousands of things to go wrong.
                                     
                                    Actually all pushrod V-8's have more in common than dissimilarities.  They are simple, straightforward and easy to fix. Of course, you need a REAL mechanic that not only has experience taking things apart, but some real grasp of theory of engines.  Same goes for machine shop work;  get a ham-fisted person to try to do an adequate valve job and head milling and you are in trouble.  Same goes for the actual re-assembly of the engine.  I have seen all the nightmare scenarios of reversed bearings, improper torquing of fasteners, no checking of clearances,and the list goes on.  Ig nition and fuel delivery seems to be a black hole for most of these garage monkeys, and I am always amused by the parts-changers who have no idea what they are doing.  I am a certified car nut, and won't commission any work unless I can be there to observe the goings-on.  I do not trust people in the repair business, period.  Take time t o interview the worker, satisfy yourself that the answers to your questions are truthful and accurate.  Run like Hades if you are the least bit suspicious.  If you need brain surgery, don't go to a podiatrist.. .....-As usual, all comments graciously accepted.  Ron---- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 1:53 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] HELP!

                                    Along with the other problems stated, it is possible they installed some push-rods inverted. Pre-67 engines have a top and bottom push-rod tip. If installed inverted, a compression loss is possible. Milling heads should be no problem, .003-.005". .010" or more, the intake manifold needs milling to maintain sealing surface geometry. Since these are Fred Flinstone simple engines, I would hope they can figure it out. Just another thought. Dave.
                                     
                                    ------------ -- Original message ------------ --
                                    From: polaris552@comcast. net

                                    WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks that there are stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the gasket. It did not seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it back to the garage again yesterday and told him it was not able to be driven and they need to find out the problem. Anyone have similar situation?

                                    Thanks for any help with this.
                                    Phil Wetmore
                                    1963 imperial crown



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                                  • Fred Joslin
                                    I made a complaint the the BBB and Atorney General of Washington State about an automotive complaint. The Atorney General said work it out with the business
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                                      I made a complaint the the BBB and Atorney General of Washington State about an automotive complaint. The Atorney General said work it out with the business and the BBB said the same. The BBB would not even lodge a complaint against the company if I did not accept their (the business) terms. The terms were for me to pay for the parts needed (purchased through them at inflated prices) and the company would provide the labor (which I had already paid for). Not much of a bargain. The company still has a nice clean record with the BBB. When you get into this sort of a situation you typically do not want these ******* idiots even looking at your car, let alone working on it.
                                      My advice is waste your time on this path if you want, but do not expect much and do not return to the same place. Obviously incompetent morons.  
                                      Good luck.  

                                      ----- Original Message ----
                                      From: Eddie Elvis <plymouth5767@...>
                                      To: imperial-club@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2008 9:49:17 AM
                                      Subject: RE: [Imperial-Club] HELP!

                                      Phil,
                                              I agree with Elijah.  I've been a mechanic for the past 26 years and you simply do not ever send a car back from repair running poorly.  That job is a no brainer for a decent mechanic.
                                              This shop is responsible for your repair and your satisfaction. 
                                      Bring the car back to him and tell him you want it back when it's running correctly.
                                      If he gives you a song and a dance, then report him to the Division of Consumer Affairs.
                                      They work out of the state Attorney General's Office and they have lawyers just waiting to come after shysters like this guy.

                                                                            ...........Eddie
                                                                           1957 Crown Coupe
                                                                           1960 Le Baron hardtop




                                      To: Imperial-Club@ yahoogroups. com
                                      From: polaris552@comcast. net
                                      Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 12:54:08 +0000
                                      Subject: [Imperial-Club] HELP!

                                      WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks that there are stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the gasket. It did not seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it back to the garage again yesterday and told him it was not able to be driven and they need to find out the problem. Anyone have similar situation?

                                      Thanks for any help with this.
                                      Phil Wetmore
                                      1963 imperial crown



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                                    • Ron Stephenson
                                      Yes, and believe me, I have taken the time to train many a young mechanic on the old stuff and the foreign cars. I am a Chrysler man, and have been since
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                                        Yes, and believe me, I have taken the time to 'train' many a young mechanic on the old stuff and the foreign cars.  I am a Chrysler man, and have been since the 50's, but I am into Jaguars, Datsun Z cars, and have had Aston Martins, BMW's, Mercedes, Mazda and you name it, anything interesting.  Many people are intimidated with stuff they have never worked on, but in the final analysis, they are all simple machines underneath.  The biggest headache is the electricals and the electronics, and why cars wound up with all this crap is still a mystery.  If you don't know it, Oldsmobile went out of business because of electrical problems.  The dealer told me the new cars were in the shop more than on the road because of one failure after another.  I have had BMW's that I bought for salvage prices because the dealer wouldn't even work on the cars after they were 5 or so years old.  Who ever heard of the dash lights not working on a car?  Or, how about a mini-computer for the lighting system on a car?  Just rediculous!
                                         
                                        Well, I just have to mention Chysler's ventures into fuel injection, first on the 300's years ago, then in 1981, the Imperials.  So darn stubborn, they would not buy licensing for Bosch's proven systems.  Instead, in-house attempts and some elbow-rubbing with Bendix were disasterous.  When you had to take back new cars, and change out everything in the fuel system from the tank to the intake and put on a carburetor, you had to realize what a boondoggle that was.   I picked up my 81 Imp for a song after it had sat in a garage for 10 years.  The owner just parked it after many trips to the dealer to attempt to fix the problems.  No one would take it off his hands back then, and if they did, they would give nothing for it in trade.  Anyway, we are at the mercy of know-nothings unless we have friends our age that understand the old cars.  So it goes............ron
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: sosmi@...
                                        Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 3:56 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] HELP!

                                        Ron, you are right on so many points. The problem is, so many "young" technicians have not had the field time to see the"now I've seen it all". At the same time, the customer is less and less educated on their own product. Dealing with the older Imps should be no problem. I started with nothing but Chrysler engines, and now the majority of my work is GM, Ford, and EDC Volvo diesels (marine). There is a gap in old car technology, that can't be filled without paying your dues with time. A great man (My Father) once said " A man made it, a man can fix it " , witch really means, if you understand the sequents of events, then you've got it. And knowing the product as well. I say give these guys a chance, it may be a small problem. Although I will say, it should have run better then when it came in. Ya'll have a nice day, Dave.
                                         
                                        ------------ -- Original message ------------ --
                                        From: "Ron Stephenson" <jagster911@bellsout h.net>

                                        Gosh, here we go again on getting work done on a Chrysler engine by Chevrolet mechanics.  They think our engines are so different that there must be thousands of things to go wrong.
                                         
                                        Actually all pushrod V-8's have more in common than dissimilarities.  They are simple, straightforward and easy to fix. Of course, you need a REAL mechanic that not only has experience taking things apart, but some real grasp of theory of engines.  Same goes for machine shop work;  get a ham-fisted person to try to do an adequate valve job and head milling and you are in trouble.  Same goes for the actual re-assembly of the engine.  I have seen all the nightmare scenarios of reversed bearings, improper torquing of fasteners, no checking of clearances,and the list goes on.  Ig nition and fuel delivery seems to be a black hole for most of these garage monkeys, and I am always amused by the parts-changers who have no idea what they are doing.  I am a certified car nut, and won't commission any work unless I can be there to observe the goings-on.  I do not trust people in the repair business, period.  Take time t o interview the worker, satisfy yourself that the answers to your questions are truthful and accurate.  Run like Hades if you are the least bit suspicious.  If you need brain surgery, don't go to a podiatrist.. .....-As usual, all comments graciously accepted.  Ron---- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 1:53 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] HELP!

                                        Along with the other problems stated, it is possible they installed some push-rods inverted. Pre-67 engines have a top and bottom push-rod tip. If installed inverted, a compression loss is possible. Milling heads should be no problem, .003-.005". .010" or more, the intake manifold needs milling to maintain sealing surface geometry. Since these are Fred Flinstone simple engines, I would hope they can figure it out. Just another thought. Dave.
                                         
                                        ------------ -- Original message ------------ --
                                        From: polaris552@comcast. net

                                        WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks that there are stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the gasket. It did not seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it back to the garage again yesterday and told him it was not able to be driven and they need to find out the problem. Anyone have similar situation?

                                        Thanks for any help with this.
                                        Phil Wetmore
                                        1963 imperial crown



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                                        Checked by AVG.
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                                        Checked by AVG.
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                                      • Neil R
                                        Get a compression test done all cylindars should be within 10 % of 110 PSI. If you have a bad cylindar that will tell the tale, if that s okay check all your
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jul 1, 2008
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                                          Get a compression test done all cylindars should be within 10 % of 110 PSI. If you have a bad cylindar that will tell the tale, if that's okay check all your vacumn lines are connected or have no holes,.
                                          On Jul 1, 2008, at 8:54 AM, polaris552@... wrote:

                                          WE just had to have a valve job done on the 63 imperial. It had 33k miles but the head gasket went. We finally got it back from the garage but it idles very rough. It stalls while in gear. The mechanic said to drive it a while to see if it gets better..He thinks that there are stuck rings. It did run before I took it in for the gasket. It did not seem to run very rough. Any suggestions? I took it back to the garage again yesterday and told him it was not able to be driven and they need to find out the problem. Anyone have similar situation? 

                                          Thanks for any help with this.
                                          Phil Wetmore
                                          1963 imperial crown 


                                        • Rob van der Es
                                          Hi David, With regard to the pushrods and lifters I have good news, they are still available! Sealed Power have those in their program. I ordered a few weeks
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jul 2, 2008
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                                            Hi David,
                                             
                                            With regard to the pushrods and lifters I have good news, they are still available!
                                            Sealed Power have those in their program.
                                             
                                            I ordered a few weeks ago 16 Pushrods for my 1960 engine (413 RB) at $2.50 each from Rockauto. They also have the correct valve lifters, I believe the partnumber is HT 812
                                             
                                            Good luck,
                                             
                                            Rob
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:17 PM
                                            Subject: pushrods and lifters (was Re: [Imperial-Club] HELP!)

                                            I think the changeover was the 68 model year.  67 and earlier big blocks use a different pushrod/lifter combination.  Those early rods and lifters are nearly impossible to find, so most folks switch to the new combination.  You can not mix and match, it's old/old or new/new.

                                             

                                            And don't forget, used lifters and pushrods MUST be installed on the valve from which they came or you will be very sad.  The "mechanic" may not have been aware of this requirement.

                                             

                                            Happy motoring,

                                             

                                            David

                                            --- On Tue, 7/1/08, sosmi@comcast. net <sosmi@comcast. net> wrote:

                                            From: sosmi@comcast. net <sosmi@comcast. net>
                                            Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] HELP!
                                            To: Imperial-Club@ yahoogroups. com
                                            Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 11:53 AM

                                            Along with the other problems stated, it is possible they installed some push-rods inverted. Pre-67 engines have a top and bottom push-rod tip. If installed inverted, a compression loss is possible. Milling heads should be no problem, .003-.005". .010" or more, the intake manifold needs milling to maintain sealing surface geometry. Since these are Fred Flinstone simple engines, I would hope they can figure it out. Just another thought. Dave.
                                             
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                                          • Rob van der Es
                                            Hi David, With regard to the pushrods and lifters I have good news, they are still available! Sealed Power have those in their program. I ordered a few weeks
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jul 2, 2008
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                                              Hi David,
                                               
                                              With regard to the pushrods and lifters I have good news, they are still available!
                                              Sealed Power have those in their program.
                                               
                                              I ordered a few weeks ago 16 Pushrods for my 1960 engine (413 RB) at $2.50 each from Rockauto. They also have the correct valve lifters, I believe the partnumber is HT 812
                                               
                                              Good luck,
                                               
                                              Rob
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:17 PM
                                              Subject: pushrods and lifters (was Re: [Imperial-Club] HELP!)

                                              I think the changeover was the 68 model year.  67 and earlier big blocks use a different pushrod/lifter combination.  Those early rods and lifters are nearly impossible to find, so most folks switch to the new combination.  You can not mix and match, it's old/old or new/new.

                                               

                                              And don't forget, used lifters and pushrods MUST be installed on the valve from which they came or you will be very sad.  The "mechanic" may not have been aware of this requirement.

                                               

                                              Happy motoring,

                                               

                                              David

                                              --- On Tue, 7/1/08, sosmi@comcast. net <sosmi@comcast. net> wrote:

                                              From: sosmi@comcast. net <sosmi@comcast. net>
                                              Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] HELP!
                                              To: Imperial-Club@ yahoogroups. com
                                              Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 11:53 AM

                                              Along with the other problems stated, it is possible they installed some push-rods inverted. Pre-67 engines have a top and bottom push-rod tip. If installed inverted, a compression loss is possible. Milling heads should be no problem, .003-.005". .010" or more, the intake manifold needs milling to maintain sealing surface geometry. Since these are Fred Flinstone simple engines, I would hope they can figure it out. Just another thought. Dave.
                                               
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                                            • JIM LORENZEN
                                              Hi Phil - As usual, I agree with Paul. Also, whatever else these engines are they are simple - in that there is only so many things that can cause your
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Jul 3, 2008
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                                                Hi Phil -
                                                 
                                                As usual, I agree with Paul. 
                                                Also, whatever else these engines are they are simple  - in that there is only so many things that can cause your issues.  I too would start by looking at everything they touched.  My first thought was did they properly torque down the head with a gasket between it and the block - (it has happened).
                                                I'd run a compression test on which will tell you if everything is tightend down.  Check the spark plug wires to see if they are hooked up correctly.  Spray WD-40 around the base of the carb and intake manifold to head surfaces to check for vacuum leaks there.
                                                AND, most importantly of all - find a new mechanic.  That line about about the rings leads me to believe that either he has no basic engine knowledge at (possible with todays cars that can tell a mechanics computer what is wrong with them) or he just wants to charge you for rebuilding your entire engine.
                                                 
                                                Good luck -
                                                 
                                                Jim L. in OR
                                                    '60 Crown 4dr Southampton
                                                    '62 Crown 4dr Southampton
                                                 
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