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Re: [Imperial-Club] RE: 1955/cross-ply tyres

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  • Carl Blumenthal
    For me since I enter my car s in shows, Radials just don t make it there. I ve been even told about the wrong color heater hoses so tires too on older cars
    Message 1 of 17 , Nov 1, 2010
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      For me since I enter my car's in shows, Radials just don't make it there. I've been even told about the wrong color heater hoses so tires too on older cars should be as original as possible. Of course with about 100 or 200 miles a year, makes little difference.

      --- On Sun, 10/31/10, Roger Casagrande <rdc2382@...> wrote:


      From: Roger Casagrande <rdc2382@...>
      Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] RE: 1955/cross-ply tyres
      To: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, October 31, 2010, 3:53 PM


       



      Paul;

      I purchased the Coker bias ply tires fro my '55 when I purchased it in 2003. My intention was to keep it as original as possible. I have the 24 psi recommended in the tires, but have only driven it a few miles during the casual restoration process. The tires have less than 200 miles on them and look new, but they will be replaced with radials for safety and handling in these modern times. My Newport wallows on curves as was the norm for that era. modern drivers have driven radial tires for years and have handling expectations with radials for all cars on the road. This makes my 2.3 ton bias ply tire Imp a hazard to me when driving in normal situations. Yes, I am careful and respectful of the limitations of these cars, but not every driver is as experienced, especially the younger, aggressive drivers. I suspect that after the Imp gets back on the road regularly, I will convert to front disc brakes as well. My engineering background says this is the safest
      thing to do.

      Roger
      '55 Newport

      From: pspros@...
      To: imperialclub@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: 1955/cross-ply tyres
      Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 20:59:37 +1030

      Hi guys,
      I have the old cross/ply tyres on my 55 (not for much longer) and I was very surprised to read in my work-shop manual that the recommended tyre pressure is 24 psi. I have been running them on 30psi as the beast weights two ton. What's the general view out there guys, as I am about to head of on a 1200 mile trip and need to preserve what's left of my tyres.
      Cheers Paul

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • watchfatha
      Call me insensitive, but with the near 2 dozen Imperials I ve owned (including every year from 59 to 68), all were equipped with radials. None had their
      Message 2 of 17 , Nov 1, 2010
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        Call me insensitive, but with the near 2 dozen Imperials I've owned (including every year from '59 to '68), all were equipped with radials. None had their suspension geometry settings altered from factory specs. I never had a problem with steering response , going straight, having uneven wear,having the tire come off the rim, etc. Nada. My 2 cents.
        Norm

        --- In Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com, Rob van der Es <vdes.npc@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Carl,
        >
        > I experience the same problem with my 1960 Imp, the previous owner put
        > radials on it (Dimension IV tires) and I have always found the car floating
        > a little.
        > As far as I know you have to change the alignment of the frontwheels when
        > you change from bias to radials.
        > Meaning you have to alter toe-in/toe-out, camber and caster, unfortunately I
        > don't have a clue HOW to change the values from those that are mentioned in
        > the FSM...
        >
        > Neither have the tyre shops overhere in the Netherlands!
        > Maybe someone on the IML can fill us in??
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Rob
        >
        > 2010/10/31 Carl Blumenthal <cablumenthal@...>
        >
        > >
        > >
        > > All this talk about tires reminds me that not long ago I got worried about
        > > the tires on my 67 Imperial since they were the originals. naturally they
        > > were Biased type and I kept them at 32 PSI. Changed to some super heavy duty
        > > Radials and still use 32 PSI which is what it said on the tires. Car rides
        > > OK but always feels like it is floating. Now thinking about changing the
        > > tires on my 68 Newport since they too are the originals but think I'll siick
        > > to Biased tires this time.
        > > Since neither car goes more than a few miles a year, makes little
        > > difference.
        > >
        > > --- On Sat, 10/30/10, Klebert L. Hall <crocuta@...<crocuta%40verizon.net>>
        > > wrote:
        > >
        > > From: Klebert L. Hall <crocuta@... <crocuta%40verizon.net>>
        > > Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] RE: 1955/cross-ply tyres
        > > To: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com <Imperial-Club%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > Date: Saturday, October 30, 2010, 8:39 AM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > On 10/30/2010 6:33 AM, paul sprosen wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi guys,
        > > > I have the old cross/ply tyres on
        > > > my 55 (not for much longer) and I was very surprised
        > > > to read in my work-shop manual that the recommended
        > > > tyre pressure is 24 psi. I have been running them on
        > > > 30psi as the beast weights two ton. What's the general
        > > > view out there guys, as I am about to head of on a 1200
        > > > mile trip and need to preserve what's left of my tyres.
        > > > Cheers Paul
        > >
        > > You've probably opened a can of worms... opinions strongly vary on this.
        > >
        > > I can't imagine running less than 28psi unless I were going off road.
        > > By the early '60s, the owners manuals clearly stated that the low
        > > recommended tire pressures were only suitable for gentle, low-speed use,
        > > and that you should increase the pressure to around 30psi for hard
        > > highway use. My understanding is that the low pressure was solely to
        > > soften the car's ride, and that handling, braking, and tire durability
        > > on paved roads are all reduced at those pressures.
        > >
        > > However, I've never owned a '55, nor have I read the technical
        > > material about them.
        > >
        > > -Kle.
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Rob van der Es
        Thanks Norm, I have read several years ago that it is important to change steering geometry when you change over from bias-ply to radials. Unfortunately I
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 1, 2010
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          Thanks Norm,

          I have read several years ago that it is important to change steering
          geometry when you change over from bias-ply to radials.
          Unfortunately I forgot why ,and how much degrees you have to change the
          geometry...
          I remember one of the reason was that you would have a better straight line
          stability, but I am not sure if that was the only reason..

          Anyway, I could use a better straight line stabillity for speeds above 60
          mph.
          Have to sort out one day what to change to obtain that :)

          Rob

          2010/11/1 watchfatha <watchfatha@...>

          >
          >
          > Call me insensitive, but with the near 2 dozen Imperials I've owned
          > (including every year from '59 to '68), all were equipped with radials. None
          > had their suspension geometry settings altered from factory specs. I never
          > had a problem with steering response , going straight, having uneven
          > wear,having the tire come off the rim, etc. Nada. My 2 cents.
          > Norm
          >
          > --- In Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com <Imperial-Club%40yahoogroups.com>,
          > Rob van der Es <vdes.npc@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Carl,
          > >
          > > I experience the same problem with my 1960 Imp, the previous owner put
          > > radials on it (Dimension IV tires) and I have always found the car
          > floating
          > > a little.
          > > As far as I know you have to change the alignment of the frontwheels when
          > > you change from bias to radials.
          > > Meaning you have to alter toe-in/toe-out, camber and caster,
          > unfortunately I
          > > don't have a clue HOW to change the values from those that are mentioned
          > in
          > > the FSM...
          > >
          > > Neither have the tyre shops overhere in the Netherlands!
          > > Maybe someone on the IML can fill us in??
          > >
          > > Thanks,
          > >
          > > Rob
          > >
          > > 2010/10/31 Carl Blumenthal <cablumenthal@...>
          > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > All this talk about tires reminds me that not long ago I got worried
          > about
          > > > the tires on my 67 Imperial since they were the originals. naturally
          > they
          > > > were Biased type and I kept them at 32 PSI. Changed to some super heavy
          > duty
          > > > Radials and still use 32 PSI which is what it said on the tires. Car
          > rides
          > > > OK but always feels like it is floating. Now thinking about changing
          > the
          > > > tires on my 68 Newport since they too are the originals but think I'll
          > siick
          > > > to Biased tires this time.
          > > > Since neither car goes more than a few miles a year, makes little
          > > > difference.
          > > >
          > > > --- On Sat, 10/30/10, Klebert L. Hall <crocuta@...<crocuta%
          > 40verizon.net>>
          > > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > From: Klebert L. Hall <crocuta@... <crocuta%40verizon.net>>
          > > > Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] RE: 1955/cross-ply tyres
          > > > To: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com <Imperial-Club%40yahoogroups.com><Imperial-Club%
          > 40yahoogroups.com>
          > > > Date: Saturday, October 30, 2010, 8:39 AM
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > On 10/30/2010 6:33 AM, paul sprosen wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi guys,
          > > > > I have the old cross/ply tyres on
          > > > > my 55 (not for much longer) and I was very surprised
          > > > > to read in my work-shop manual that the recommended
          > > > > tyre pressure is 24 psi. I have been running them on
          > > > > 30psi as the beast weights two ton. What's the general
          > > > > view out there guys, as I am about to head of on a 1200
          > > > > mile trip and need to preserve what's left of my tyres.
          > > > > Cheers Paul
          > > >
          > > > You've probably opened a can of worms... opinions strongly vary on
          > this.
          > > >
          > > > I can't imagine running less than 28psi unless I were going off road.
          > > > By the early '60s, the owners manuals clearly stated that the low
          > > > recommended tire pressures were only suitable for gentle, low-speed
          > use,
          > > > and that you should increase the pressure to around 30psi for hard
          > > > highway use. My understanding is that the low pressure was solely to
          > > > soften the car's ride, and that handling, braking, and tire durability
          > > > on paved roads are all reduced at those pressures.
          > > >
          > > > However, I've never owned a '55, nor have I read the technical
          > > > material about them.
          > > >
          > > > -Kle.
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Narve Nordanger
          A rather experienced wheel alignment specialist (20+ years in that business) once told me that the toe-in (I recall, might not be correct) would have to be
          Message 4 of 17 , Nov 1, 2010
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            A rather experienced wheel alignment specialist (20+ years in that business)
            once told me that the toe-in (I recall, might not be correct) would have to
            be changed ever so slightly for proper straight-line stability when altering
            between the various types of tires. He would typically adapt the factory
            settings according to his knowledge if the car was to be run on radials.
            Same goes for tire pressure, generally an added 4-6 psi is needed if
            changing to radials.

            Bias-ply is somewhere between cross-ply and radials (bringing together the
            lesser characteristics of both the older and newer if you ask me), so that
            might call for something in between.

            Regards,

            Narve Nordanger
            40 Chrysler (rubbish on bias, good on radials, fully acceptable on cross-ply
            - all without changing the settings)
            55 Chrysler (scary on bias, just fine on radials with adapted toe-in)

            -----Opprinnelig melding-----
            Fra: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com] På
            vegne av Rob van der Es
            Sendt: 1. november 2010 21:55
            Til: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com
            Emne: Re: [Imperial-Club] Re: 1955/cross-ply tyres-I never changed the
            Alignment spec-never had a problem

            Thanks Norm,

            I have read several years ago that it is important to change steering
            geometry when you change over from bias-ply to radials.
            Unfortunately I forgot why ,and how much degrees you have to change the
            geometry...
            I remember one of the reason was that you would have a better straight line
            stability, but I am not sure if that was the only reason..

            Anyway, I could use a better straight line stabillity for speeds above 60
            mph.
            Have to sort out one day what to change to obtain that :)

            Rob

            2010/11/1 watchfatha <watchfatha@...>

            >
            >
            > Call me insensitive, but with the near 2 dozen Imperials I've owned
            > (including every year from '59 to '68), all were equipped with radials.
            None
            > had their suspension geometry settings altered from factory specs. I never
            > had a problem with steering response , going straight, having uneven
            > wear,having the tire come off the rim, etc. Nada. My 2 cents.
            > Norm
            >
            > --- In Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com <Imperial-Club%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > Rob van der Es <vdes.npc@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Carl,
            > >
            > > I experience the same problem with my 1960 Imp, the previous owner put
            > > radials on it (Dimension IV tires) and I have always found the car
            > floating
            > > a little.
            > > As far as I know you have to change the alignment of the frontwheels
            when
            > > you change from bias to radials.
            > > Meaning you have to alter toe-in/toe-out, camber and caster,
            > unfortunately I
            > > don't have a clue HOW to change the values from those that are mentioned
            > in
            > > the FSM...
            > >
            > > Neither have the tyre shops overhere in the Netherlands!
            > > Maybe someone on the IML can fill us in??
            > >
            > > Thanks,
            > >
            > > Rob
            > >
            > > 2010/10/31 Carl Blumenthal <cablumenthal@...>
            > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > All this talk about tires reminds me that not long ago I got worried
            > about
            > > > the tires on my 67 Imperial since they were the originals. naturally
            > they
            > > > were Biased type and I kept them at 32 PSI. Changed to some super
            heavy
            > duty
            > > > Radials and still use 32 PSI which is what it said on the tires. Car
            > rides
            > > > OK but always feels like it is floating. Now thinking about changing
            > the
            > > > tires on my 68 Newport since they too are the originals but think I'll
            > siick
            > > > to Biased tires this time.
            > > > Since neither car goes more than a few miles a year, makes little
            > > > difference.
            > > >
            > > > --- On Sat, 10/30/10, Klebert L. Hall <crocuta@...<crocuta%
            > 40verizon.net>>
            > > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > From: Klebert L. Hall <crocuta@... <crocuta%40verizon.net>>
            > > > Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] RE: 1955/cross-ply tyres
            > > > To: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com
            <Imperial-Club%40yahoogroups.com><Imperial-Club%
            > 40yahoogroups.com>
            > > > Date: Saturday, October 30, 2010, 8:39 AM
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > On 10/30/2010 6:33 AM, paul sprosen wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi guys,
            > > > > I have the old cross/ply tyres on
            > > > > my 55 (not for much longer) and I was very surprised
            > > > > to read in my work-shop manual that the recommended
            > > > > tyre pressure is 24 psi. I have been running them on
            > > > > 30psi as the beast weights two ton. What's the general
            > > > > view out there guys, as I am about to head of on a 1200
            > > > > mile trip and need to preserve what's left of my tyres.
            > > > > Cheers Paul
            > > >
            > > > You've probably opened a can of worms... opinions strongly vary on
            > this.
            > > >
            > > > I can't imagine running less than 28psi unless I were going off road.
            > > > By the early '60s, the owners manuals clearly stated that the low
            > > > recommended tire pressures were only suitable for gentle, low-speed
            > use,
            > > > and that you should increase the pressure to around 30psi for hard
            > > > highway use. My understanding is that the low pressure was solely to
            > > > soften the car's ride, and that handling, braking, and tire durability
            > > > on paved roads are all reduced at those pressures.
            > > >
            > > > However, I've never owned a '55, nor have I read the technical
            > > > material about them.
            > > >
            > > > -Kle.
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

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          • Sonny Moorehouse
            You use the radial specks from a full size Chrysler I think around 1974, and it sounds like you need new shocks if they are ten years old they are in need of
            Message 5 of 17 , Nov 1, 2010
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              You use the radial specks from a full size Chrysler I think around 1974, and it sounds like you need new shocks if they are ten years old they are in need of replacement. Also most 60s cars were upgraded to radials long ago and that included the alignment adjustments that are necessary . anyone buying tires back then understood the advantages of the radial over the balloon.
            • Rob van der Es
              Hi Sonny, I agree with you that it won t hurt to have a look on the front shocks too. They are at least 5 years old (thats when I bought the car..) but I don
              Message 6 of 17 , Nov 2, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Sonny,

                I agree with you that it won' t hurt to have a look on the front shocks too.
                They are at least 5 years old (thats when I bought the car..) but I don' t
                know
                how long the previous owner had these shocks on.
                Anyway, KYB makes nice shocks for these cars, so it wouldn't hurt to give
                them a try
                next driving season.
                Just prepared the car for it' s wintersleep and put it away till next spring
                arrives :(

                Rob


                2010/11/2 Sonny Moorehouse <smoorehouse@...>

                >
                >
                > You use the radial specks from a full size Chrysler I think around 1974,
                > and it sounds like you need new shocks if they are ten years old they are in
                > need of replacement. Also most 60s cars were upgraded to radials long ago
                > and that included the alignment adjustments that are necessary . anyone
                > buying tires back then understood the advantages of the radial over the
                > balloon.
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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