40720Re: [Imperial-Club] Alternative refrigerant response
- Nov 9, 2013Thanks for the response Warren. I do my own AC work, and have been since the early ‘60s. I have a vacuum pump plus leak detectors and gauges and the expertise to do the job. Haven’t seen the need to get certified. I’m not concerned about global warming. In my past life, the research I did into the effects of sun spot activity on the ionosphere, led me into the effect that it has on long term weather. As a result, I’m firmly convinced that what we do here has extremely little to do with our weather. History shows that we have had long periods of both much warmer and much colder weather than we are currently experiencing.Jimmy‘56 4d Imperial‘67 Crown Coupe
I use a hydrocarbon refrigerant from Enviro-Safe ( http://autorefrigerants.com/co00033.htm ) in my 1956 Imperial. It is a direct replacement for R12, and is compatible with the existing compressor oil. It cools as well as R12, or better, based on my perception. I tried this material after spending multi-thousands of $$$ trying to find a leak in my AC system. Over the years, I had 3 or 4 shops search for a leak. No real success, and the R12 charge was $400 (4 lbs) each time, in addition to labor costs. The leak is still with me, with a charge lasting about 2 weeks before saying bye-bye.
Since I was not willing to keep on leaking R12 at those costs, I researched the available alternatives. There are multiple alternatives, but I picked the Enviro-Safe products as the best solution in my opinion. They have good thermodynamic comparisons on their website that influenced me, and I concluded that they have really properly researched their solution. It is a hydrocarbon refrigerant (a blend of propane and butane as I recall). It takes about 2 lbs of the material to fill my system, which is 4 cans of the product (at about $6± a can – I buy it by the case). I used to design natural gas processing plants in one of my former lives (1950’s, 1960’s and 1970’s). Hydrocarbon refrigerant was normal for the course. I designed one system that used 40,000 HP to produce -40°F. Hydrocarbon refrigerant is not a concern for me. If I have 2 lbs of propane/butane in my car, and 120+ lbs of gasoline, I don’t see much increase in risk for me. But you may feel different, so you have to decide for yourself. By the way, the Enviro-Safe product is not a greenhouse gas, just in case you had a concern about this.
I can’t give you any definitive comments on the legal use of hydrocarbon refrigerant for you, as I have not researched this. I believe it has been approved in Australia as acceptable for automotive use. Our beloved EPA does not endorse it. A professional repair shop may have rules against installing it. My understanding is (at least in Texas) that I can use it if I install it myself. So I do, and I have put labels around the AC system that it is a hydrocarbon refrigerant, so that some free thinking mechanic does not decide to “top off” my system with R12. I use my 50 year old R12 manifold, gauges and hoses and add refrigerant when I want to drive the car in warm weather.
I would be glad to answer other questions if I have not given you the input you need.
1956 Imperial sedan (with AC)
From: Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Imperial-Club@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimmy
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Imperial-Club] 60 AC condenser/cooler/line installation completed.
Hi Norm and all,
I have two imperials now needing R 12 to get them to cooling next year, but only have three small cans left from the dark ages when you could get them on sale for $0.89. I don’t want to change over to the new 134 or what ever it is, so am looking for a directly compatible replacement for R 12. Some of the things I have seen are hydrocarbons that supposedly cool well, but are highly flammable if you happen to get a leak. In fact, I think they are against the law here in Louisiana. If anybody knows of a good substitute for R 12, I would love to know about it.
‘56 4d Imperial
‘67 Crown Coupe
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 9:18 PM
Subject: [Imperial-Club] 60 AC condenser/cooler/line installation completed.
Last night I was bored and energetic, so I installed the condenser and cooler on my 60 and re-connected all the lines and hoses. Not a terrible job, but I discovered that in order to get the condenser positioned correctly, the front vertical brace has to come out. Well, all's in its place now and as soon as I have the gauges re-done by JC Auto, I'll see about getting some good ole R 12 in to the system to get it crankin.
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