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Portrait of a Woman Scorned: Marie Antoinette and her children

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  • axel
    [I]n a fit of shame, Queen Marie hired the esteemed painter, Vigee Le Brun, to fix her tarnished reputation. Instead of a scantily clad depiction of Marie in
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 15, 2012
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      "[I]n a fit of shame, Queen Marie hired the esteemed painter, Vigee Le Brun, to fix her tarnished reputation. Instead of a scantily clad depiction of Marie in her sleeping quarters, as she was most commonly viewed in France, Le Brun illustrated a maternal homebody, cradling her treasured children as though she had no cares in the world aside from building her family. Her somewhat plain red frock portrays a practicality unseen by the French public, and her feathered hat asserts the power that Queen Marie Antoinette had over the French crown. Most importantly, Marie lacked the "bling" for which she was most notorious. Le Brun portrayed Marie Antoinette as an ordinary woman, wise and understanding of France's needs."

      "Despite the portrait's beauty, its irony infuriated the French public. Its lies spurred even more vengeance against the frivolous French monarchy, for the people were appalled at the monarchy's attempt to become more relatable through a gigantic, expensive portrait of the country's most shameful figurehead."

      This quotation is from a blog post by Katherine Anderson, "
      Portrait of a Woman Scorned, The Fairer Sex Treated Not-So Fairly"
      last month in August 2012

      Here is a link to Ms. Anderson's post, to read the full post -
      http://my-kid-could-paint-that.blogspot.com/2012/08/portrait-of-woman-scorned-marie.html
    • Marged
      I wonder if Katherine Anderson goes on to point out that the child is pointing to the empty cot which once contained his baby sister, now dead? Marged [I]n a
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 15, 2012
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        I wonder if Katherine Anderson goes on to point out that the child is pointing to the empty cot which once contained his baby sister, now dead? 
         
        Marged

        "[I]n a fit of shame, Queen Marie hired the esteemed painter, Vigee Le Brun, to fix her tarnished reputation. Instead of a scantily clad depiction of Marie in her sleeping quarters, as she was most commonly viewed in France, Le Brun illustrated a maternal homebody, cradling her treasured children as though she had no cares in the world aside from building her family. Her somewhat plain red frock portrays a practicality unseen by the French public, and her feathered hat asserts the power that Queen Marie Antoinette had over the French crown. Most importantly, Marie lacked the "bling" for which she was most notorious. Le Brun portrayed Marie Antoinette as an ordinary woman, wise and understanding of France's needs."

        "Despite the portrait's beauty, its irony infuriated the French public. Its lies spurred even more vengeance against the frivolous French monarchy, for the people were appalled at the monarchy's attempt to become more relatable through a gigantic, expensive portrait of the country's most shameful figurehead."

        This quotation is from a blog post by Katherine Anderson, "
        Portrait of a Woman Scorned, The Fairer Sex Treated Not-So Fairly"
        last month in August 2012

        Here is a link to Ms. Anderson's post, to read the full post - 
        http://my-kid-could-paint-that.blogspot.com/2012/08/portrait-of-woman-scorned-marie.html



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      • janet fauble
        Axel, I read this and was astounded by it.  It is so totally inaccurate as to be eye popping.  However, I also shared the blog at my facebook page for a
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 16, 2012
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          Axel, I read this and was astounded by it.  It is so totally inaccurate as to be eye popping.  However, I also shared the blog at my facebook page for a reason...(to be read of course)!
          I frankly doubt that many of the common people ever saw the portrait, and even the court itself would not have reacted in the way that it is described in this brief summation.  Granted, a few of the traitors would have ballyhooed anything that was done to promote Antoinette in a favorable light, but generally, I imagine that her friends approved and liked this family portrait.  Just my hasty thoughts on this.  Jan  (Maybe thinking a bit too much like Louis XVI, but it does seem absurd in a way to think that a painting would command such a vitrolic response.)
          From: axel <Rand103242@...>
          To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 1:48 PM
          Subject: Portrait of a Woman Scorned: Marie Antoinette and her children

           
          "[I]n a fit of shame, Queen Marie hired the esteemed painter, Vigee Le Brun, to fix her tarnished reputation. Instead of a scantily clad depiction of Marie in her sleeping quarters, as she was most commonly viewed in France, Le Brun illustrated a maternal homebody, cradling her treasured children as though she had no cares in the world aside from building her family. Her somewhat plain red frock portrays a practicality unseen by the French public, and her feathered hat asserts the power that Queen Marie Antoinette had over the French crown. Most importantly, Marie lacked the "bling" for which she was most notorious. Le Brun portrayed Marie Antoinette as an ordinary woman, wise and understanding of France's needs."

          "Despite the portrait's beauty, its irony infuriated the French public. Its lies spurred even more vengeance against the frivolous French monarchy, for the people were appalled at the monarchy's attempt to become more relatable through a gigantic, expensive portrait of the country's most shameful figurehead."

          This quotation is from a blog post by Katherine Anderson, "
          Portrait of a Woman Scorned, The Fairer Sex Treated Not-So Fairly"
          last month in August 2012

          Here is a link to Ms. Anderson's post, to read the full post -
          http://my-kid-could-paint-that.blogspot.com/2012/08/portrait-of-woman-scorned-marie.html



        • axel
          The commentary by Katherine Anderson doesnt mention that the Queen s older son the Dauphin, Louis Joseph points to an empty cradle which once held his sister
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 18, 2012
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            The commentary by Katherine Anderson doesnt mention that the Queen's older son the Dauphin, Louis Joseph points to an empty cradle which once held his sister Sophie Beatrix who died at age 11 months in 1787 befor the paintings completion.

            One would have expected that death to have enegendered sympathy for the dead child's mother Marie Antoinette. However, Anderson's blunt analysis is correct, that quite the opposite - the painting generated little sympathy for Marie Antoinette. Instead, the more vociferous response was "Voila la Deficit!" when the painting exhibited in the salon of 1788.

            Indeed, that lack of sympathy in 1788 foreshadowed the same public reaction when the King and Queen were further stricken with grief over the loss of that very boy, the Dauphin a year later in June 1789 - which the public seemed to scarcely notice amid the excitement of the revolutionary events of 1789.

            Axel

            --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "Marged" <marged36@...> wrote:
            >
            > I wonder if Katherine Anderson goes on to point out that the child is pointing to the empty cot which once contained his baby sister, now dead?
            >
            > Marged
            >
            >
            > "[I]n a fit of shame, Queen Marie hired the esteemed painter, Vigee Le Brun, to fix her tarnished reputation. Instead of a scantily clad depiction of Marie in her sleeping quarters, as she was most commonly viewed in France, Le Brun illustrated a maternal homebody, cradling her treasured children as though she had no cares in the world aside from building her family. Her somewhat plain red frock portrays a practicality unseen by the French public, and her feathered hat asserts the power that Queen Marie Antoinette had over the French crown. Most importantly, Marie lacked the "bling" for which she was most notorious. Le Brun portrayed Marie Antoinette as an ordinary woman, wise and understanding of France's needs."
            >
            > "Despite the portrait's beauty, its irony infuriated the French public. Its lies spurred even more vengeance against the frivolous French monarchy, for the people were appalled at the monarchy's attempt to become more relatable through a gigantic, expensive portrait of the country's most shameful figurehead."
            >
            > This quotation is from a blog post by Katherine Anderson, "
            > Portrait of a Woman Scorned, The Fairer Sex Treated Not-So Fairly"
            > last month in August 2012
            >
            > Here is a link to Ms. Anderson's post, to read the full post -
            > http://my-kid-could-paint-that.blogspot.com/2012/08/portrait-of-woman-scorned-marie.html
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
          • axel
            These two enormous paintings hung side by side at the Salon of 1787. While Adelaide Labille-Guiard s Portrait of the King s Aunt was lauded as a big success,
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 18, 2012
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              "These two enormous paintings hung side by side at the Salon of 1787. While Adelaide Labille-Guiard's Portrait of the King's Aunt was lauded as a big success, Vigee-LeBrun's portrait of Marie-Antoinette was so severely criticized that it had to be taken down in two days. People were complaining about everything they could find, even the gilded frame saying this was where all the money of France was going to."

              http://www.sedefscorner.com/2011_10_09_archive.html
              Sedef's Corner

              That's the comment on the on the reception of the Vigee LeBrun portrait form the art site Sedef's Corner. Here is the further comment of Vigee LeBrun herself from her 1835 memoirs:

              "The last sitting I had with Her Majesty was given me at Trianon, where I did her hair for the large picture in which she appeared with her children. After doing the Queen's hair, as well as separate studies of the Dauphin, Madame Royale, and the Duke de Normandie, I busied myself with my picture, to which I attached great importance, and I had it ready for the Salon of 1788.

              "The frame, which had been taken there alone, was enough to evoke a thousand malicious remarks. "That's how the money goes," they said, and a number of other things which seemed to me the bitterest comments.

              "At last I sent my picture, but I could not muster up the courage to follow it and find out what its fate was to be, so afraid was I that it would be badly received by the public. In fact, I became quite ill with fright. I shut myself in my room, and there I was, praying to the Lord for the success of my "Royal Family," when my brother and a host of friends burst in to tell me that my picture had met with universal acclaim. After the Salon, the King, having had the picture transferred to Versailles, M. d'Angevilliers, then minister of the fine arts and director of royal residences, presented me to His Majesty. Louis XVI. vouchsafed to talk to me at some length and to tell me that he was very much pleased. Then he added, still looking at my work, "I know nothing about painting, but you make me like it."

              http://historyandotherthoughts.blogspot.com/2012/01/madame-vigee-le-brun-on-marie.html

              In response to these two links I have looked further to see whether it is confirmed that the 1787 picture had to be withdrawn like the 1783 portrait of the Queen en Gaulle. I didn't find further corroboration of that.

              However, it is clear the painting which was exhibited in the salon of 1787 beginning in August 1787 was widely scene and remembered for the nickname given the Queen then "Madame Deficit". Caroline Weber in her book Queen of Fashion at page 183 writes that the frame appeared before the picture late in arriving which was something done with other portraits of the Queen to dissipate negative comment. But this time that backfired because in the days before it was exhibited someone affixed the tag to the frame: "Here is the Portrait of Madame Deficit." Weber writes that the nickname to stuck with the Queen from that time on.

              Axel



              --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, janet fauble <janetcfauble@...> wrote:
              >
              > Axel, I read this and was astounded by it.  It is so totally inaccurate as to be eye popping.  However, I also shared the blog at my facebook page for a reason...(to be read of course)!
              >
              > I frankly doubt that many of the common people ever saw the portrait, and even the court itself would not have reacted in the way that it is described in this brief summation.  Granted, a few of the traitors would have ballyhooed anything that was done to promote Antoinette in a favorable light, but generally, I imagine that her friends approved and liked this family portrait.  Just my hasty thoughts on this.  Jan  (Maybe thinking a bit too much like Louis XVI, but it does seem absurd in a way to think that a painting would command such a vitrolic response.)
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: axel <Rand103242@...>
              > To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 1:48 PM
              > Subject: Portrait of a Woman Scorned: Marie Antoinette and her children
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              > "[I]n a fit of shame, Queen Marie hired the esteemed painter, Vigee Le Brun, to fix her tarnished reputation. Instead of a scantily clad depiction of Marie in her sleeping quarters, as she was most commonly viewed in France, Le Brun illustrated a maternal homebody, cradling her treasured children as though she had no cares in the world aside from building her family. Her somewhat plain red frock portrays a practicality unseen by the French public, and her feathered hat asserts the power that Queen Marie Antoinette had over the French crown. Most importantly, Marie lacked the "bling" for which she was most notorious. Le Brun portrayed Marie Antoinette as an ordinary woman, wise and understanding of France's needs."
              >
              > "Despite the portrait's beauty, its irony infuriated the French public. Its lies spurred even more vengeance against the frivolous French monarchy, for the people were appalled at the monarchy's attempt to become more relatable through a gigantic, expensive portrait of the country's most shameful figurehead."
              >
              > This quotation is from a blog post by Katherine Anderson, "
              > Portrait of a Woman Scorned, The Fairer Sex Treated Not-So Fairly"
              > last month in August 2012
              >
              > Here is a link to Ms. Anderson's post, to read the full post -
              > http://my-kid-could-paint-that.blogspot.com/2012/08/portrait-of-woman-scorned-marie.html
              >
            • axel
              ... From: Marged To: axel Cc: janet fauble Sent: Wed, Sep 19, 2012 2:34 am Subject:
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 29, 2012
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                -----Original Message-----
                From: Marged <marged36@...>
                To: axel <Rand103242@...>
                Cc: janet fauble <janetcfauble@...>
                Sent: Wed, Sep 19, 2012 2:34 am
                Subject: That picture
                Axel, I recently re-joined the Marie Antoinette list and found your post on the Vigee le Brun picture interesting enough to send a response.

                My response was posted on 15th September, but has not appeared in my mail box, leading me to think I am still awaiting approval by the List Owner.

                Can you tell me how long I have to wait before my mail will be passed to the list, if ever? It is now WELL out of date since you have posted yourself on the subject of the dead Princess Sophie

                Marged


                --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "Marged" <marged36@...> wrote:
                >
                > I wonder if Katherine Anderson goes on to point out that the child is pointing to the empty cot which once contained his baby sister, now dead?
                >
                > Marged
                >
                >
                > "[I]n a fit of shame, Queen Marie hired the esteemed painter, Vigee Le Brun, to fix her tarnished reputation. Instead of a scantily clad depiction of Marie in her sleeping quarters, as she was most commonly viewed in France, Le Brun illustrated a maternal homebody, cradling her treasured children as though she had no cares in the world aside from building her family. Her somewhat plain red frock portrays a practicality unseen by the French public, and her feathered hat asserts the power that Queen Marie Antoinette had over the French crown. Most importantly, Marie lacked the "bling" for which she was most notorious. Le Brun portrayed Marie Antoinette as an ordinary woman, wise and understanding of France's needs."
                >
                > "Despite the portrait's beauty, its irony infuriated the French public. Its lies spurred even more vengeance against the frivolous French monarchy, for the people were appalled at the monarchy's attempt to become more relatable through a gigantic, expensive portrait of the country's most shameful figurehead."
                >
                > This quotation is from a blog post by Katherine Anderson, "
                > Portrait of a Woman Scorned, The Fairer Sex Treated Not-So Fairly"
                > last month in August 2012
                >
                > Here is a link to Ms. Anderson's post, to read the full post -
                > http://my-kid-could-paint-that.blogspot.com/2012/08/portrait-of-woman-scorned-marie.html
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
              • axel
                Marged, One comment from you (below) was posted Sept. 18. Was that the comment you refer to? I certainly want to get all your comments posted. Thanks too for
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 29, 2012
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                  Marged,

                  One comment from you (below) was posted Sept. 18. Was that the comment you refer to?

                  I certainly want to get all your comments posted.

                  Thanks too for re-joining the list. Hope you will continue to share your comments with us.

                  Axel

                  --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "axel" <Rand103242@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Marged <marged36@...>
                  > To: axel <Rand103242@...>
                  > Cc: janet fauble <janetcfauble@...>
                  > Sent: Wed, Sep 19, 2012 2:34 am
                  > Subject: That picture
                  > Axel, I recently re-joined the Marie Antoinette list and found your post on the Vigee le Brun picture interesting enough to send a response.
                  >
                  > My response was posted on 15th September, but has not appeared in my mail box, leading me to think I am still awaiting approval by the List Owner.
                  >
                  > Can you tell me how long I have to wait before my mail will be passed to the list, if ever? It is now WELL out of date since you have posted yourself on the subject of the dead Princess Sophie
                  >
                  > Marged
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "Marged" <marged36@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I wonder if Katherine Anderson goes on to point out that the child is pointing to the empty cot which once contained his baby sister, now dead?
                  > >
                  > > Marged
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > "[I]n a fit of shame, Queen Marie hired the esteemed painter, Vigee Le Brun, to fix her tarnished reputation. Instead of a scantily clad depiction of Marie in her sleeping quarters, as she was most commonly viewed in France, Le Brun illustrated a maternal homebody, cradling her treasured children as though she had no cares in the world aside from building her family. Her somewhat plain red frock portrays a practicality unseen by the French public, and her feathered hat asserts the power that Queen Marie Antoinette had over the French crown. Most importantly, Marie lacked the "bling" for which she was most notorious. Le Brun portrayed Marie Antoinette as an ordinary woman, wise and understanding of France's needs."
                  > >
                  > > "Despite the portrait's beauty, its irony infuriated the French public. Its lies spurred even more vengeance against the frivolous French monarchy, for the people were appalled at the monarchy's attempt to become more relatable through a gigantic, expensive portrait of the country's most shameful figurehead."
                  > >
                  > > This quotation is from a blog post by Katherine Anderson, "
                  > > Portrait of a Woman Scorned, The Fairer Sex Treated Not-So Fairly"
                  > > last month in August 2012
                  > >
                  > > Here is a link to Ms. Anderson's post, to read the full post -
                  > > http://my-kid-could-paint-that.blogspot.com/2012/08/portrait-of-woman-scorned-marie.html
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  >
                • axel
                  Thanks again, Axel, for the discussion of this controversial portrait. It is one of my favorites, but I appreciated reading from the artist herself about the
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 29, 2012
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                    Thanks again, Axel, for the discussion of this controversial portrait. It is one of my favorites, but I appreciated reading from the artist herself about the reaction to her great work. Only two days! Very sad but what a barometer of the temperament of the population. My best, Jan

                    Sept. 21, 2012
                    Re: Here is portrait of Mme Deficit: Public reply to MA 1787
                    janet fauble


                    --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "axel" <Rand103242@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > "These two enormous paintings hung side by side at the Salon of 1787. While Adelaide Labille-Guiard's Portrait of the King's Aunt was lauded as a big success, Vigee-LeBrun's portrait of Marie-Antoinette was so severely criticized that it had to be taken down in two days. People were complaining about everything they could find, even the gilded frame saying this was where all the money of France was going to."
                    >
                    > http://www.sedefscorner.com/2011_10_09_archive.html
                    > Sedef's Corner
                    >
                    > That's the comment on the on the reception of the Vigee LeBrun portrait form the art site Sedef's Corner. Here is the further comment of Vigee LeBrun herself from her 1835 memoirs:
                    >
                    > "The last sitting I had with Her Majesty was given me at Trianon, where I did her hair for the large picture in which she appeared with her children. After doing the Queen's hair, as well as separate studies of the Dauphin, Madame Royale, and the Duke de Normandie, I busied myself with my picture, to which I attached great importance, and I had it ready for the Salon of 1788.
                    >
                    > "The frame, which had been taken there alone, was enough to evoke a thousand malicious remarks. "That's how the money goes," they said, and a number of other things which seemed to me the bitterest comments.
                    >
                    > "At last I sent my picture, but I could not muster up the courage to follow it and find out what its fate was to be, so afraid was I that it would be badly received by the public. In fact, I became quite ill with fright. I shut myself in my room, and there I was, praying to the Lord for the success of my "Royal Family," when my brother and a host of friends burst in to tell me that my picture had met with universal acclaim. After the Salon, the King, having had the picture transferred to Versailles, M. d'Angevilliers, then minister of the fine arts and director of royal residences, presented me to His Majesty. Louis XVI. vouchsafed to talk to me at some length and to tell me that he was very much pleased. Then he added, still looking at my work, "I know nothing about painting, but you make me like it."
                    >
                    > http://historyandotherthoughts.blogspot.com/2012/01/madame-vigee-le-brun-on-marie.html
                    >
                    > In response to these two links I have looked further to see whether it is confirmed that the 1787 picture had to be withdrawn like the 1783 portrait of the Queen en Gaulle. I didn't find further corroboration of that.
                    >
                    > However, it is clear the painting which was exhibited in the salon of 1787 beginning in August 1787 was widely scene and remembered for the nickname given the Queen then "Madame Deficit". Caroline Weber in her book Queen of Fashion at page 183 writes that the frame appeared before the picture late in arriving which was something done with other portraits of the Queen to dissipate negative comment. But this time that backfired because in the days before it was exhibited someone affixed the tag to the frame: "Here is the Portrait of Madame Deficit." Weber writes that the nickname to stuck with the Queen from that time on.
                    >
                    > Axel
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, janet fauble <janetcfauble@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Axel, I read this and was astounded by it.  It is so totally inaccurate as to be eye popping.  However, I also shared the blog at my facebook page for a reason...(to be read of course)!
                    > >
                    > > I frankly doubt that many of the common people ever saw the portrait, and even the court itself would not have reacted in the way that it is described in this brief summation.  Granted, a few of the traitors would have ballyhooed anything that was done to promote Antoinette in a favorable light, but generally, I imagine that her friends approved and liked this family portrait.  Just my hasty thoughts on this.  Jan  (Maybe thinking a bit too much like Louis XVI, but it does seem absurd in a way to think that a painting would command such a vitrolic response.)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________
                    > > From: axel <Rand103242@>
                    > > To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 1:48 PM
                    > > Subject: Portrait of a Woman Scorned: Marie Antoinette and her children
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >  
                    > >
                    > > "[I]n a fit of shame, Queen Marie hired the esteemed painter, Vigee Le Brun, to fix her tarnished reputation. Instead of a scantily clad depiction of Marie in her sleeping quarters, as she was most commonly viewed in France, Le Brun illustrated a maternal homebody, cradling her treasured children as though she had no cares in the world aside from building her family. Her somewhat plain red frock portrays a practicality unseen by the French public, and her feathered hat asserts the power that Queen Marie Antoinette had over the French crown. Most importantly, Marie lacked the "bling" for which she was most notorious. Le Brun portrayed Marie Antoinette as an ordinary woman, wise and understanding of France's needs."
                    > >
                    > > "Despite the portrait's beauty, its irony infuriated the French public. Its lies spurred even more vengeance against the frivolous French monarchy, for the people were appalled at the monarchy's attempt to become more relatable through a gigantic, expensive portrait of the country's most shameful figurehead."
                    > >
                    > > This quotation is from a blog post by Katherine Anderson, "
                    > > Portrait of a Woman Scorned, The Fairer Sex Treated Not-So Fairly"
                    > > last month in August 2012
                    > >
                    > > Here is a link to Ms. Anderson's post, to read the full post -
                    > > http://my-kid-could-paint-that.blogspot.com/2012/08/portrait-of-woman-scorned-marie.html
                    > >
                    >
                  • Marged
                    Well, I don t know what to say here, since about six weeks have passed by since my original posting of 15th September. Perhaps I just didn t recognise that my
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 29, 2012
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                      Well, I don't know what to say here, since about six weeks have passed by since my original posting of 15th September.
                       
                      Perhaps I just didn't recognise that my mail had received a response?  I am still not sure.
                       
                      Marged
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: axel
                      Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 7:26 PM
                      Subject: Re: Portrait of a Woman Scorned: Marie Antoinette and her children

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Marged <marged36@...>
                      To: axel <Rand103242@...>
                      Cc: janet fauble <janetcfauble@...>
                      Sent: Wed, Sep 19, 2012 2:34 am
                      Subject: That picture
                      Axel, I recently re-joined the Marie Antoinette list and found your post on the Vigee le Brun picture interesting enough to send a response.
                       
                      My response was posted on 15th September, but has not appeared in my mail box, leading me to think I am still awaiting approval by the List Owner.
                       
                      Can you tell me how long I have to wait before my mail will be passed to the list, if ever?  It is now WELL out of date since you have posted yourself on the subject of the dead Princess Sophie
                       
                      Marged


                      --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "Marged" <marged36@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I wonder if Katherine Anderson goes on to point out that the child is pointing to the empty cot which once contained his baby sister, now dead? 
                      >
                      > Marged
                      >
                      >
                      >   "[I]n a fit of shame, Queen Marie hired the esteemed painter, Vigee Le Brun, to fix her tarnished reputation. Instead of a scantily clad depiction of Marie in her sleeping quarters, as she was most commonly viewed in France, Le Brun illustrated a maternal homebody, cradling her treasured children as though she had no cares in the world aside from building her family. Her somewhat plain red frock portrays a practicality unseen by the French public, and her feathered hat asserts the power that Queen Marie Antoinette had over the French crown. Most importantly, Marie lacked the "bling" for which she was most notorious. Le Brun portrayed Marie Antoinette as an ordinary woman, wise and understanding of France's needs."
                      >
                      >   "Despite the portrait's beauty, its irony infuriated the French public. Its lies spurred even more vengeance against the frivolous French monarchy, for the people were appalled at the monarchy's attempt to become more relatable through a gigantic, expensive portrait of the country's most shameful figurehead."
                      >
                      >   This quotation is from a blog post by Katherine Anderson, "
                      >   Portrait of a Woman Scorned, The Fairer Sex Treated Not-So Fairly"
                      >   last month in August 2012
                      >
                      >   Here is a link to Ms. Anderson's post, to read the full post - 
                      >   http://my-kid-could-paint-that.blogspot.com/2012/08/portrait-of-woman-scorned-marie.html
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >   ------------------------------------
                      >
                      >   Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >




                      ------------------------------------

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                    • axel
                      ... Marged, the above comment of yours was posted on Sept. 18. Did you have any other comments about the Katherine Anderson post? about my replies to it? or
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 29, 2012
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                        --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "Marged" <marged36@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I wonder if Katherine Anderson goes on to point out that the child is pointing to the empty cot which once contained his baby sister, now dead?
                        >
                        > Marged

                        Marged, the above comment of yours was posted on Sept. 18. Did you have any other comments about the Katherine Anderson post? about my replies to it? or otherwise on the Vigee LeBrun portrait of Marie Antoinette and her children?

                        Though six weeks have passed, if you have more comments Marged, those would be most welcome :) And i promise to try to get them posted quicker!!

                        Axel

                        --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "Marged" <marged36@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Well, I don't know what to say here, since about six weeks have passed by since my original posting of 15th September.
                        >
                        > Perhaps I just didn't recognise that my mail had received a response? I am still not sure.
                        >
                        > Marged
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: axel
                        > To: Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 7:26 PM
                        > Subject: Re: Portrait of a Woman Scorned: Marie Antoinette and her children
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Marged <marged36@...>
                        > To: axel <Rand103242@...>
                        > Cc: janet fauble <janetcfauble@...>
                        > Sent: Wed, Sep 19, 2012 2:34 am
                        > Subject: That picture
                        > Axel, I recently re-joined the Marie Antoinette list and found your post on the Vigee le Brun picture interesting enough to send a response.
                        >
                        > My response was posted on 15th September, but has not appeared in my mail box, leading me to think I am still awaiting approval by the List Owner.
                        >
                        > Can you tell me how long I have to wait before my mail will be passed to the list, if ever? It is now WELL out of date since you have posted yourself on the subject of the dead Princess Sophie
                        >
                        > Marged
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "Marged" <marged36@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I wonder if Katherine Anderson goes on to point out that the child is pointing to the empty cot which once contained his baby sister, now dead?
                        > >
                        > > Marged
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > "[I]n a fit of shame, Queen Marie hired the esteemed painter, Vigee Le Brun, to fix her tarnished reputation. Instead of a scantily clad depiction of Marie in her sleeping quarters, as she was most commonly viewed in France, Le Brun illustrated a maternal homebody, cradling her treasured children as though she had no cares in the world aside from building her family. Her somewhat plain red frock portrays a practicality unseen by the French public, and her feathered hat asserts the power that Queen Marie Antoinette had over the French crown. Most importantly, Marie lacked the "bling" for which she was most notorious. Le Brun portrayed Marie Antoinette as an ordinary woman, wise and understanding of France's needs."
                        > >
                        > > "Despite the portrait's beauty, its irony infuriated the French public. Its lies spurred even more vengeance against the frivolous French monarchy, for the people were appalled at the monarchy's attempt to become more relatable through a gigantic, expensive portrait of the country's most shameful figurehead."
                        > >
                        > > This quotation is from a blog post by Katherine Anderson, "
                        > > Portrait of a Woman Scorned, The Fairer Sex Treated Not-So Fairly"
                        > > last month in August 2012
                        > >
                        > > Here is a link to Ms. Anderson's post, to read the full post -
                        > > http://my-kid-could-paint-that.blogspot.com/2012/08/portrait-of-woman-scorned-marie.html
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                      • axel
                        It relly is a shame, she was always trying to win the people s aprovel but nothing she ever did was good enough: She was too dull, too loud, too flamboyant,
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 13, 2013
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                          It relly is a shame, she was always trying to win the people's aprovel but nothing she ever did was good enough: She was too dull, too loud, too flamboyant, she never wore enough jewelry or she wore too much.

                          It was never ending. It makes me wonder,is she had their approvel, what might have changed in history? Or if she was here, in present time, how would she imact us?

                          -J.

                          This post is from Jester. It was sent April 2 and should have gone up but some reason did not. It did go to my email that I saw today and now post.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: jester <jester@...>
                          To: axel <Rand103242@...>
                          Sent: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 5:29 am
                          Subject: Re: Portrait of a Woman Scorned: Marie Antoinette and her children


                          --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "axel" <Rand103242@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The commentary by Katherine Anderson doesnt mention that the Queen's older son the Dauphin, Louis Joseph points to an empty cradle which once held his sister Sophie Beatrix who died at age 11 months in 1787 befor the paintings completion.
                          >
                          > One would have expected that death to have enegendered sympathy for the dead child's mother Marie Antoinette. However, Anderson's blunt analysis is correct, that quite the opposite - the painting generated little sympathy for Marie Antoinette. Instead, the more vociferous response was "Voila la Deficit!" when the painting exhibited in the salon of 1788.
                          >
                          > Indeed, that lack of sympathy in 1788 foreshadowed the same public reaction when the King and Queen were further stricken with grief over the loss of that very boy, the Dauphin a year later in June 1789 - which the public seemed to scarcely notice amid the excitement of the revolutionary events of 1789.
                          >
                          > Axel
                          >
                          > --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "Marged" <marged36@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I wonder if Katherine Anderson goes on to point out that the child is pointing to the empty cot which once contained his baby sister, now dead?
                          > >
                          > > Marged
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > "[I]n a fit of shame, Queen Marie hired the esteemed painter, Vigee Le Brun, to fix her tarnished reputation. Instead of a scantily clad depiction of Marie in her sleeping quarters, as she was most commonly viewed in France, Le Brun illustrated a maternal homebody, cradling her treasured children as though she had no cares in the world aside from building her family. Her somewhat plain red frock portrays a practicality unseen by the French public, and her feathered hat asserts the power that Queen Marie Antoinette had over the French crown. Most importantly, Marie lacked the "bling" for which she was most notorious. Le Brun portrayed Marie Antoinette as an ordinary woman, wise and understanding of France's needs."
                          > >
                          > > "Despite the portrait's beauty, its irony infuriated the French public. Its lies spurred even more vengeance against the frivolous French monarchy, for the people were appalled at the monarchy's attempt to become more relatable through a gigantic, expensive portrait of the country's most shameful figurehead."
                          > >
                          > > This quotation is from a blog post by Katherine Anderson, "
                          > > Portrait of a Woman Scorned, The Fairer Sex Treated Not-So Fairly"
                          > > last month in August 2012
                          > >
                          > > Here is a link to Ms. Anderson's post, to read the full post -
                          > > http://my-kid-could-paint-that.blogspot.com/2012/08/portrait-of-woman-scorned-marie.html
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          >
                        • axel
                          Hello Jester, Yes, you are quite correct that she seems never to get a break. But we must remember that the ordinary poor people of Paris were
                          Message 12 of 12 , Apr 15, 2013
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                            Hello Jester, Yes, you are quite correct that she seems never to get a break.

                            But we must remember that the ordinary poor people of Paris were starving,desperate, and angry. No matter had she fed them every single day they would do the same as today's modern day non starving do to our politicians, ranted and raved anyway. But France was famous for mob rule from Parisians as it had happened earlier when the Fronde descended upon Anne of Austria to enter the home to make certain that the child King was present in the residence. The
                            French knew their own history well, and knew that the kings and queens belonged to them. Marie would have benefitted had she known and cared about early French history herself. It might have saved her from the disaster.

                            ****

                            This is a post from Jan that for some reason went to my email and did not post to our site. Hence I am posting now and apologize for the delay.

                            Axel

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Janet Fauble <janet.fauble@...>
                            To: Rand103242 <Rand103242@...>
                            Sent: Sun, Apr 14, 2013 8:57 pm
                            Subject: Re: Portrait of a Woman Scorned: Marie Antoinette and her children


                            --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "axel" <Rand103242@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > It relly is a shame, she was always trying to win the people's aprovel but nothing she ever did was good enough: She was too dull, too loud, too flamboyant, she never wore enough jewelry or she wore too much.
                            >
                            > It was never ending. It makes me wonder,is she had their approvel, what might have changed in history? Or if she was here, in present time, how would she imact us?
                            >
                            > -J.
                            >
                            > This post is from Jester. It was sent April 2 and should have gone up but some reason did not. It did go to my email that I saw today and now post.
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: jester <jester@...>
                            > To: axel <Rand103242@...>
                            > Sent: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 5:29 am
                            > Subject: Re: Portrait of a Woman Scorned: Marie Antoinette and her children
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "axel" <Rand103242@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > The commentary by Katherine Anderson doesnt mention that the Queen's older son the Dauphin, Louis Joseph points to an empty cradle which once held his sister Sophie Beatrix who died at age 11 months in 1787 befor the paintings completion.
                            > >
                            > > One would have expected that death to have enegendered sympathy for the dead child's mother Marie Antoinette. However, Anderson's blunt analysis is correct, that quite the opposite - the painting generated little sympathy for Marie Antoinette. Instead, the more vociferous response was "Voila la Deficit!" when the painting exhibited in the salon of 1788.
                            > >
                            > > Indeed, that lack of sympathy in 1788 foreshadowed the same public reaction when the King and Queen were further stricken with grief over the loss of that very boy, the Dauphin a year later in June 1789 - which the public seemed to scarcely notice amid the excitement of the revolutionary events of 1789.
                            > >
                            > > Axel
                            > >
                            > > --- In Images_of_Marie_Antoinette@yahoogroups.com, "Marged" <marged36@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > I wonder if Katherine Anderson goes on to point out that the child is pointing to the empty cot which once contained his baby sister, now dead?
                            > > >
                            > > > Marged
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > "[I]n a fit of shame, Queen Marie hired the esteemed painter, Vigee Le Brun, to fix her tarnished reputation. Instead of a scantily clad depiction of Marie in her sleeping quarters, as she was most commonly viewed in France, Le Brun illustrated a maternal homebody, cradling her treasured children as though she had no cares in the world aside from building her family. Her somewhat plain red frock portrays a practicality unseen by the French public, and her feathered hat asserts the power that Queen Marie Antoinette had over the French crown. Most importantly, Marie lacked the "bling" for which she was most notorious. Le Brun portrayed Marie Antoinette as an ordinary woman, wise and understanding of France's needs."
                            > > >
                            > > > "Despite the portrait's beauty, its irony infuriated the French public. Its lies spurred even more vengeance against the frivolous French monarchy, for the people were appalled at the monarchy's attempt to become more relatable through a gigantic, expensive portrait of the country's most shameful figurehead."
                            > > >
                            > > > This quotation is from a blog post by Katherine Anderson, "
                            > > > Portrait of a Woman Scorned, The Fairer Sex Treated Not-So Fairly"
                            > > > last month in August 2012
                            > > >
                            > > > Here is a link to Ms. Anderson's post, to read the full post -
                            > > > http://my-kid-could-paint-that.blogspot.com/2012/08/portrait-of-woman-scorned-marie.html
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ------------------------------------
                            > > >
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
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